unfuckin real.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41632205/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/seattle-cop-who-fatally-shot-woodcarver-quits-force/

http://firstnationsdrum.com/2011/03/nuu-chah-nulth-want-seattle-cop-ian-birk-held-accountable/

WTF?!?! Who the hell is training and passing these idiots at the academy???

So he fires 4 shots on a man carving a piece of wood. That alone is stupid enough. He was not threatening anyone, at most, 1 single shot in a leg or something would have been more than enough.

Then, he just stands there like a stupid moron, waiting for the guy to bleed out. Then his even stupider pals arrive, and 11 in total form a line to safely approach a man shot 4 times, lying in the ground, with a knife who wasn't even moving or speaking??

This is disgusting beyond words. That piece of shit should spend the rest of his life behind bars, and those 10 idiots who arrived later should get a slap on the wrist as well.

He was comming right at me!

I sometimes feel there is a serious disconnect running through the american culture between the use of force and the intrinsic value of ANY human life. Drawing a firearm on a human being should be the last thing a protector of the people should do in any situation that has not a clearly confirmed weapon, plus: not shooting the suspect if he/she ahs no intent of inducing harm.

Good thing they arrested him afterwards.

I guess they thought he might turn into a zombie.

No charges are going to be filed because although it was a "tragic mistake" the shooting was "in good faith" and "without malice."

What the holy hell is going on in the police academies these days?

>> ^petpeeved:

No charges are going to be filed because although it was a "tragic mistake" the shooting was "in good faith" and "without malice."
What the holy hell is going on in the police academies these days?


How do you shoot someone without malice?

Self defense?
>> ^Bruti79:

>> ^petpeeved:
No charges are going to be filed because although it was a "tragic mistake" the shooting was "in good faith" and "without malice."
What the holy hell is going on in the police academies these days?

How do you shoot someone without malice?

This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.

Le edit: Added the proper "not"

WHAT.

THE.

FUCK.

That is beyond unbelievable. I mean, I am utterly speechless. I find my mind just ejecting what I just saw and heard, virtually unable to accept what its been asked to process.

That was nothing short of wanton murder - VIDEOTAPED no less, and the guy walks? If that wasn't a crime, we are all IN DEEP SHIT.

Holy fuck.

This is old right? Like a couple months? Doing a dup check now.

We're gonna stack up like we're breaching and clearing! That's what we're going to do!

Let's breach and clear that non existent door!

The shooting was a "good faith mistake, however tragic" and no charges would be filed, Satterberg said.

Seattle has a lot of Police misconduct issues.

Justice Department to Review Seattle Police’s Use of Force

Other appropriate descriptive tags could include "Murder" and "Sad"


This just makes me feel very sad for the focused artist walking down the street.
The (former) officer should be tried for murder.

Yes. Which this wasn't. >> ^gwiz665:

Self defense?
>> ^Bruti79:
>> ^petpeeved:
No charges are going to be filed because although it was a "tragic mistake" the shooting was "in good faith" and "without malice."
What the holy hell is going on in the police academies these days?

How do you shoot someone without malice?

He shot 6 times and only hit him with 4 bullets? That's like 10 feet away.

oh for christs sake. i'm meant to be going to seattle later this year.... fffffuuuuck.

Heads up to a gold star member:

*dupeof= http://videosift.com/video/Dashcam-Video-of-Seattle-Police-Shooting

I don't find the addition of the comments to this vid to be a compelling reason why it's not a dupe, though feel free to discuss in SiftTalk if necessary.

He just murdered that guy in cold blood. The officer charged the guy as he had his back turned, gave him NO time to react, then shot him. What the fuck?

From the article: "A jury would be compelled to find Officer Birk not guilty".

Umm, a jury of psychopaths maybe. I seriously can't believe what I just saw and the subsequent reaction from the police department. Everyone should be absolutely outraged by this.

I'm sad now...

Agreed...*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Dashcam-Video-of-Seattle-Police-Shooting

???

*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Dashcam-Video-of-Seattle-Police-Shooting

This video has been nominated as a duplicate of this video by chicchorea. If this nomination is seconded with *isdupe, the video will be killed and its votes transferred to the original.

>> ^berticus:

oh for christs sake. i'm meant to be going to seattle later this year.... fffffuuuuck.


You can go as long as you aren't a non-white man carrying wood.

You can be non-white OR you can carry wood.

Those are your options

THOSE ARE YOUR OPTIONS!!!

It's not a dupe. This has a second camera angle that shows the scene of the shooting rather than just the audio.

As a local, this was appalling to watch. Dan Satterberg will need to prosecute W to win back votes from the left. Then again, his next election won't be until 2014. As for Seattle PD, it's wrong to assume all Officers are this reckless, but if there are enough rotten apples, it might make sense to look at the tree.

>> ^Pantalones:

It's not a dupe. This has a second camera angle that shows the scene of the shooting rather than just the audio.
As a local, this was appalling to watch. Dan Satterberg will need to prosecute W to win back votes from the left. Then again, his next election won't be until 2014. As for Seattle PD, it's wrong to assume all Officers are this reckless, but if there are enough rotten apples, it might make sense to look at the tree.


Good call probe, Not dupe. My fault.

I'm moving to Seattle this summer...all I could think about were Sounders games.

we've been back to complaining how much room bicyclists take for about a year now... Seattle doesn't remember this, and you're in far more danger from the poor drivers here.

My God..

I don't even know what to say or think. I remember reading a small article on this very case in the Ottawa Citizen several months ago, I was disappointed, but they didn't really talk of this particular case in detail. I really didn't know what to think. After watching this footage I'm only left disillusioned, disgruntled and utterly speechless.

John T. Williams wasn't a thug or some kind of violent gang member, he was a troubled 50 year old man without a home, whom struggled with horrible bouts of alcoholism. He came from a family of woods carvers, which was just about the last output of livelihood the man could afford. He carried only a pocket-knife, one shorter than the legal limit which he used for carving.

So many of my friends and fellows insist on believing that racism suddenly "disappeared" across Canada and the United States.

They can go ahead and believe whatever the hell they want. Next time I go out drinking with my friends downtown, it sure as hell isn't going to be in Seattle.

>> ^EMPIRE:

WTF?!?! Who the hell is training and passing these idiots at the academy???
So he fires 4 shots on a man carving a piece of wood. That alone is stupid enough. He was not threatening anyone, at most, 1 single shot in a leg or something would have been more than enough.
Then, he just stands there like a stupid moron, waiting for the guy to bleed out. Then his even stupider pals arrive, and 11 in total form a line to safely approach a man shot 4 times, lying in the ground, with a knife who wasn't even moving or speaking??
This is disgusting beyond words. That piece of shit should spend the rest of his life behind bars, and those 10 idiots who arrived later should get a slap on the wrist as well.


I thought the homeless guy was gonna be ninja flipping up and stabbing them with his knife, then like have a load of hidden throwing knives and nail them all in their foreheads, then smokebomb and disappear.

....back to reality, some hick police officer murders someone posing no threat, gets away with it, then his dumb buddies show up and act retarded. Fuck the police.

statism

It makes me afraid to live in this city. As if there weren't enough fucking criminals, now I have to worry about the fucking people who are supposed to be stopping those criminals. This shit was all over the papers and the radio too. I used to think maybe he was just a fucking crazy guy and maybe the cop DID fear for his own safety. After seeing this video, I don't think so.

Hmm, let's see... Knife.. Gun.. I feel threatened by that short range weapon, so I'm gunna put half my clip in him just in case he's telekinetic.

Asshole.

*discuss

The second angle adds absolutely nothing to the video, since the audio is exactly the same and nothing really happens that we didn't already know was happening from the other vid. I think Matthu deserves these votes... he Sifted essentially this same vid more than 5 months ago. I think it would be fair to dupeof this one and add this as a backup embed to his. But I'm interested in what other Sifters think. Is the addition of the camera angle that shows us what we already knew was happening enough to make this not a dupe?

FYI from the Sift FAQ (bolded parts my emphasis):

Duplicates will be *discarded. A duplicate video is one which contains content already on VideoSift in a published, queued, personal queued, or dead video submission. Minor changes in content, like a few additional insignificant seconds of video or alternate background music, will still be considered dupes. The only exception to this is if the change in audio makes a significant difference to the video content.

>> ^Pantalones:

It's not a dupe. This has a second camera angle that shows the scene of the shooting rather than just the audio.
As a local, this was appalling to watch. Dan Satterberg will need to prosecute W to win back votes from the left. Then again, his next election won't be until 2014. As for Seattle PD, it's wrong to assume all Officers are this reckless, but if there are enough rotten apples, it might make sense to look at the tree.

Invocations (discard) cannot be called by SDGundamX because SDGundamX is not privileged - sorry.

>> ^siftbot:

Invocations (discard) cannot be called by SDGundamX because SDGundamX is not privileged - sorry.


Let's try this again. *discuss (see my comment above)

This video is being sent to Sift Talk for discussion - discuss requested by SDGundamX.

This video does display the strange and timid behaviour of the reinforcing officers, so I don't think it's a dupe. Also, Mathhu doesn't really stand to gain anything from these additional votes, which this video got in it's own rights.

Let's *return this so it can get more votes and attention.

Returning this video from Sift Talk - return requested by Norsuelefantti.

>> ^Norsuelefantti:

This video does display the strange and timid behaviour of the reinforcing officers, so I don't think it's a dupe. Also, Mathhu doesn't really stand to gain anything from these additional votes, which this video got in it's own rights.


While I respect your opinion on the topic, doesn't you returning it from SiftTalk--when you're the only one who's had a chance to comment on it--(it was in SiftTalk less than 2 hours) defeat the whole purpose of having a "*discussion" about the topic.

I'm not trying to be an ass about this--I'm genuinely curious to hear the Sift's (i.e. not just your) opinion on the matter. If most people are for it standing on its own--or there is some obscure rule that was decided in a previous SiftTalk that I'm unaware of--then it stays. If not, then it goes to @Matthu. Votes count for ranking, so he does indeed have something to gain if the votes get transferred (although I'm guessing he won't get the star point for the vid making the front page--not sure that transfers over).

EDIT: Typo fix.

This video is being sent to Sift Talk for discussion - discuss requested by SDGundamX.

Not a dupe to me.

Discussion is good and all, but I'm just concerned about the fact that sending this video to Sift Talk is preventing it from being voted on or listed in the top 15 and thus hurting it's visibility and votes. Why can't we discuss a bit later, when it's not a "hot" video anymore? Also, *returning the video will not prevent anyone from expressing their opinion on the matter of it being a dupe or even isduping it.

Returning this video from Sift Talk - return requested by Norsuelefantti.

not a dupe.

are almost all american cops overweight?

I don't think this situation supports that conclusion at all... Are you saying this could have been avoided had the homeless guy had a gun? You think he wouldn't have been shot down if he had a GUN instead of a knife?? What if that woman walking by had a gun? Maybe she would have pulled it from instinct, then been shot down by the moronic cop too. I think the real conclusion here is that amateurs (such as the cop) should NOT have guns so they don't shoot people out of their own stupidity who are minding their own business

>> ^gwiz665:

This is why amateurs should have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.

Looks like they must have filled their prison quota for the week.

At the halfway point I actually asked out loud, is this a joke? A skit, or something for educational purposes? After the shooting idiocy, a dozen cops approach a corpse? What the hell?

They should have convicted this cop with a sentence to hang by his balls -- assuming he's got any -- until dead. Fucking coward ass cop and his brigade of spineless underachievers. The only redeeming point of the whole video is that it sounds like some were treating the cop like he's made a mistake and is possibly unstable -- "stay with him... till he goes home."

How long before something is done about this kind of thing? How long before the uprising?


are almost all american cops overweight?

Yes.

>> ^blankfist:

statism


I'm your regular statist normally coming in and defending the police. This is completely indefensible, the cop murdered this guy with zero cause, plain and simple. There is no self-defense angle or explanation for this.

The only defense I'd add is for the dozen officers showing up after the fact. The seem to be under the mistaken impression their fellow officer actually shot the guy in self defense, which I can forgive them for assuming. I'm with everyone else though on not forgiving the killer. Even if you can accept for some reason he'd been under great stress, was confused and really did feel threatened, this is still manslaughter. You don't get away with killing someone who isn't threatening anyone because of your personal psychosis just because your cop. Well, maybe you do... Need to get on fixing this crap.

The additional angle is not insignificant. It's the only video investigators had that showed the distance between Birk and Williams and it played a huge role in the SPD Firearms Review Board's decision. (Which found the shooting unjustified.) It also showed Birk taking cover behind a traffic signal box after Williams was dead; good cover from someone holding a knife. You can kill it if you want to, but the second angle shows Birk's tactical error and was a huge part of the ruling and subsequent uproar.>> ^SDGundamX:

discuss
The second angle adds absolutely nothing to the video, since the audio is exactly the same and nothing really happens that we didn't already know was happening from the other vid. I think Matthu deserves these votes... he Sifted essentially this same vid more than 5 months ago. I think it would be fair to dupeof this one and add this as a backup embed to his. But I'm interested in what other Sifters think. Is the addition of the camera angle that shows us what we already knew was happening enough to make this not a dupe?
FYI from the Sift FAQ (bolded parts my emphasis):
Duplicates will be discarded. A duplicate video is one which contains content already on VideoSift in a published, queued, personal queued, or dead video submission. Minor changes in content, like a few additional insignificant seconds of video or alternate background music, will still be considered dupes. The only exception to this is if the change in audio makes a significant difference to the video content.
>> ^Pantalones:
It's not a dupe. This has a second camera angle that shows the scene of the shooting rather than just the audio.
As a local, this was appalling to watch. Dan Satterberg will need to prosecute W to win back votes from the left. Then again, his next election won't be until 2014. As for Seattle PD, it's wrong to assume all Officers are this reckless, but if there are enough rotten apples, it might make sense to look at the tree.

I thought maybe a new camera angle would show the murder, but it doesn't. As such, the new camera angle doesn't add anything to the video. I'm pretty sure that makes it a dupe.

Good lookin' out, @SDGundamX

Hah, I herp derped the not in that sentence. "Why amateurs should not have guns (...)" implying that the cop was an amateur.
>> ^residue:

I don't think this situation supports that conclusion at all... Are you saying this could have been avoided had the homeless guy had a gun? You think he wouldn't have been shot down if he had a GUN instead of a knife?? What if that woman walking by had a gun? Maybe she would have pulled it from instinct, then been shot down by the moronic cop too. I think the real conclusion here is that amateurs (such as the cop) should NOT have guns so they don't shoot people out of their own stupidity who are minding their own business
>> ^gwiz665:
This is why amateurs should have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.

police state

So does every cop video (I.e. law channel) fall under the Politics channel? I ask because I have finally started posting videos and don't want to cheap myself of channels--yet I don't want to cheat either.

As far as the cop goes, I agree that it would be manslaughter. The dumbass is too much a moron to have premeditated this killing. Murder implies thought, and this tard has none.

welcome to the new world order

This is why the camera is the new gun.

>> ^shinyblurry:

welcome to the new world order


New? This has been far, far worse in the past... If by new, you mean "Accountable, at least somewhat," then I agree.

What you guys didn't see was that when the suspect was off-screen, he turned around and started charging the cop with the knife (it was actually a small sword). You guys always jump to conclusions with half the story...

</typical cop apologist>

Tags for this video have been changed from 'police, homocide, abuse of power, cowards' to 'police, homocide, abuse of power, cowards, thin blue line' - edited by blankfist

Here is my two cents as to the dupeness discussion: I am relatively new to the sift, and usually only lurk the geek, comedy and religion channels. When I came upon this vid (through Pharyngula), I was too disgusted to let it slide, and naively assumed that since the embed was never posted here, and the suggested dupes did not include @Matthu's sift, I'd sift it.

So, for whatever it's worth, please go upvote Matthu's video, people.

>> ^rottenseed:

What you guys didn't see was that when the suspect was off-screen, he turned around and started charging the cop with the knife (it was actually a small sword). You guys always jump to conclusions with half the story...
</typical cop apologist>


Except that the typical "cop apologists" go by facts instead of hearsay or speculation--the kind of speculation that you would attribute falsely to us. We do note that such a scenario is a possibility and when in doubt the cop should have the he-said she-said benefit of the doubt; but when evidence is presented otherwise, we say fry the cop, we say fry this cop. We also note that the cop is not acting within the law, that he is a thug and gangster at the point that he breaks the law...

Now, unlike the typical cop-haters, most of us do admit that cops abuse power (Cop haters for the most part cannot side on the right side, they side on their side. Kind of like racists...)

Oh, here it comes from a typical cop apologist--Fry this cop...

I haven't dared to watch this, looking at the comments, i'm already crying.

I haven't dared to watch this, looking at the comments, i'm already crying.

>> ^gwiz665:

This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.
Le edit: Added the proper "not"


All citizens should be allowed to arm themselves, especially when this such a common mentality of the police.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'police, homocide, abuse of power, cowards, thin blue line' to 'police, homicide, abuse of power, cowards, thin blue line' - edited by xxovercastxx

Better to improve the mentality of the police. Guns kill.

If this dude had been tasered instead he would still be alive, in spite of the ineptitude of the police officer.
>> ^Xax:

>> ^gwiz665:
This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.
Le edit: Added the proper "not"

All citizens should be allowed to arm themselves, especially when this such a common mentality of the police.

I wouldn't even call this a dupe under the old, written dupe rule.

Under the new & improved, unwritten dupe rule that everyone voted for a while back, nothing is a dupe unless it's a 100% match, bit-for-bit.

At worst this is an excerpt and excerpts are awesome because if it's good enough to sift once, it's good enough to sift a dozen times.

>> ^sme4r:

Good thing they arrested him afterwards.


Then set him free

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/02/spd_officer_ian_birk_escapes_c.php

No idea why he wasn't charged, but it doesn't really matter. The family will sue him for wrongful death, win easily, and take everything he owns plus future earnings.

Edit: Looks like the family got $1.5 million from the city. There's also still the possibility of criminal charges.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/seattle-to-pay-15-million-to-family-of-bc-carver-killed-by-police/article2005980/

>> ^gwiz665:

This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.

Might as well outlaw alcohol too then. Idiot drunks kill people on the highway, so obviously no one can be trusted to drink.

On a side note, I know an "Alcohol Enforcement Officer"... drinks more than anyone I've ever met, and not in a good way.

Leave your wood-carving materials at home, berti!

>> ^berticus:

oh for christs sake. i'm meant to be going to seattle later this year.... fffffuuuuck.

Where's the "Tasers are inhumane" crowd?

That's cool information, but I don't think it is relevant to the dupe issue. For me, the question is, if we edited this video to be only the new camera angle and gave it a title like "New Camera Angle of Seattle Shooting of Woodcarver" or some such, would it have gotten this many votes? I doubt it would have made it out of the PQ. Just a look at the comments shows you that people are not outraged about that new camera angle... they are outraged at the audio and video that was already in @Matthu's original clip. I suspect the vast majority of these votes came because no one saw Matthu's video the first time through the Sift. That is why I contend the new video angle is not a substantial addition to the video (for the purposes of Sifting) and that Matthu deserves these votes.

I would be just as happy if everyone who voted for this video went over and voted for Matthu's clip too, but the only way to fairly ensure this will happen is to dupe this one and transfer all the votes, since a lot of people who voted probably have moved on to other vids and still don't realize this was on the Sift already. (Also, I suggest giving Matthu's vid a promote so that it continues to be up on the front page and gets publicized.) That's my position, anyway.

@Norsuelefantti The problem with taking it out of discussion is that a lot of people who are interested in hammering out what is and is not a dupe may not be interested in the contents of this vid, never watch it, and therefore be completely unaware there is any controversy about it. I'm gonna give a shoutout to @dag to ask for his thoughts on the both these matters (whether this vid is a dupe and also whether "it'll miss out on votes" is a good enough reason to return something from SiftTalk).

For your reference dag, the other vid in question is: http://videosift.com/video/Dashcam-Video-of-Seattle-Police-Shooting

>> ^Pantalones:

The additional angle is not insignificant. It's the only video investigators had that showed the distance between Birk and Williams and it played a huge role in the SPD Firearms Review Board's decision. (Which found the shooting unjustified.) It also showed Birk taking cover behind a traffic signal box after Williams was dead; good cover from someone holding a knife. You can kill it if you want to, but the second angle shows Birk's tactical error and was a huge part of the ruling and subsequent uproar.>> ^SDGundamX:
discuss
The second angle adds absolutely nothing to the video, since the audio is exactly the same and nothing really happens that we didn't already know was happening from the other vid. I think Matthu deserves these votes... he Sifted essentially this same vid more than 5 months ago. I think it would be fair to dupeof this one and add this as a backup embed to his. But I'm interested in what other Sifters think. Is the addition of the camera angle that shows us what we already knew was happening enough to make this not a dupe?
FYI from the Sift FAQ (bolded parts my emphasis):
Duplicates will be discarded. A duplicate video is one which contains content already on VideoSift in a published, queued, personal queued, or dead video submission. Minor changes in content, like a few additional insignificant seconds of video or alternate background music, will still be considered dupes. The only exception to this is if the change in audio makes a significant difference to the video content.
>> ^Pantalones:
It's not a dupe. This has a second camera angle that shows the scene of the shooting rather than just the audio.
As a local, this was appalling to watch. Dan Satterberg will need to prosecute W to win back votes from the left. Then again, his next election won't be until 2014. As for Seattle PD, it's wrong to assume all Officers are this reckless, but if there are enough rotten apples, it might make sense to look at the tree.

Honestly makes me so glad police where I live aren't armed. We have very few gun crimes as NOBODY is allowed to have tham - and only 1 gun crime by cop I can remember in the last 15 or so years.

@SDGundamX the funny thing is that, for me, all the discussion that follows a slew of votes is worth far more than the votes themselves lol.

Comments are lost though, and that's a tragedy.

@Matthu

These comments would still be accessible from a link on your post in the event this got duped. They wouldn't be erased, but they also wouldn't be displayed without a mouse-click.

Anyone else find the bit at 2.45, ie. going in to confirm what is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes, completely ridiculous?

I know there are probably procedures they have to do, but seriously, do you need 15 police to confirm that one old guy has shuffled off this mortal coil?

Also, is it just me or does the cop calling it in at 0.44 let out what sounds like a "ffs, not this again" sigh?

>> ^xxovercastxx:

I wouldn't even call this a dupe under the old, written dupe rule.
Under the new & improved, unwritten dupe rule that everyone voted for a while back, nothing is a dupe unless it's a 100% match, bit-for-bit.
At worst this is an excerpt and excerpts are awesome because if it's good enough to sift once, it's good enough to sift a dozen times.


Sorry, I missed this post until just now. Could you direct me to the SiftTalk in question where that was decided?

@Matthu
@hpqp

So, after putting on my detective hat and going through advanced searches for a while (can you tell it's a Saturday and I'm happy to be at work?) here are the precedents I discovered.

Videos of the exact same event taken from different angles (same audio)

Wind Turbine Self-Destructing
http://www.videosift.com/video/Windmill-Destroyed-By-Wind (original)
http://videosift.com/video/Wind-turbine-self-destructs (potential dupe)

In this case the majority (6-4) barely decided it was not a dupe and it stayed.

Window Adjusts Lighting
http://videosift.com/video/Philips-Daylight-Window-Concept-Presentation (original)
http://www.videosift.com/video/Ambient-window-adjusts-lighting-hue-and-patterns (potential dupe)

In this case, kronosposeidon conceded the extra camera angles added nothing and left it up to Farhad2000 whether to declare it a dupe or not. Farhad apparently graciously decided not to.

Mythbusters paint the Mona Lisa with Paintballs
http://videosift.com/video/MythBusters-CPU-vs-GPU-or-Paintball-Cannons-are-Cool (original)
http://videosift.com/video/Mythbusters-Paint-the-Mona-Lisa-with-Paintballs (potential dupe)

In this case, the original garnered far more votes than the dupe, so there wasn't much controversy. Consensus seems to be that it is a dupe. However, to this day it remains Sifted.

Mentos and Diet Coke Explosion
http://www.videosift.com/video/Record-breaking-Mentos-and-Diet-Coke-Explosions (not sure)
http://videosift.com/video/Mentos-and-Coke-Light-World-Record-Attempt (not sure)

In this case, Maatc and Ant came to an amicable agreement in which they agreed to put links to each others' videos in the descriptions.

Suggestion

Precedent seems to be that the same event captured with different angles but containing the same audio is not a dupe. However, precedent also seems to suggest that most Sifters are gracious to each other and try to spread the votes around fairly. So, maybe each of you could put a link to each others' vids in your description and hopefully people who vote for one will go and vote for the other. Sound fair?

In my opinion, this man wanted to shoot someone. I bet he understood that if someone was carrying a dangerous weapon he could use his gun, so he found someone with a dangerous weapon (using it for whatever) and shot them. I think he wanted to do it.

Alcohol is not the killer, the gun is. You can't kill anyone with alcohol, you need the car (or a weapon).

>> ^Psychologic:

>> ^gwiz665:
This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.
Might as well outlaw alcohol too then. Idiot drunks kill people on the highway, so obviously no one can be trusted to drink.
On a side note, I know an "Alcohol Enforcement Officer"... drinks more than anyone I've ever met, and not in a good way.

>> ^gwiz665:

Alcohol is not the killer, the gun is. You can't kill anyone with alcohol, you need the car (or a weapon).
>> ^Psychologic:
>> ^gwiz665:
This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.
Might as well outlaw alcohol too then. Idiot drunks kill people on the highway, so obviously no one can be trusted to drink.
On a side note, I know an "Alcohol Enforcement Officer"... drinks more than anyone I've ever met, and not in a good way.



It does slowly kill the drinker though... *trollface*

>> ^SDGundamX:

>> ^xxovercastxx:
I wouldn't even call this a dupe under the old, written dupe rule.
Under the new & improved, unwritten dupe rule that everyone voted for a while back, nothing is a dupe unless it's a 100% match, bit-for-bit.
At worst this is an excerpt and excerpts are awesome because if it's good enough to sift once, it's good enough to sift a dozen times.

Sorry, I missed this post until just now. Could you direct me to the SiftTalk in question where that was decided?


http://videosift.com/talk/Accute-Dupitis

[edit] and here's the resulting poll: http://videosift.com/poll/What-is-a-dupe

>> ^gwiz665:

Alcohol is not the killer, the gun is. You can't kill anyone with alcohol, you need the car (or a weapon).
>> ^Psychologic:
>> ^gwiz665:
This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.
Might as well outlaw alcohol too then. Idiot drunks kill people on the highway, so obviously no one can be trusted to drink.
On a side note, I know an "Alcohol Enforcement Officer"... drinks more than anyone I've ever met, and not in a good way.



The gun isn't the killer, the amateur is.

Why do people keep saying he was an amateur? He was a police officer. He was anything but an amateur.

>> ^gwiz665:

Alcohol is not the killer, the gun is. You can't kill anyone with alcohol, you need the car (or a weapon).
>> ^Psychologic:
>> ^gwiz665:
This is why amateurs should not have guns and this is why gun laws in the states are also crazy.
Might as well outlaw alcohol too then. Idiot drunks kill people on the highway, so obviously no one can be trusted to drink.
On a side note, I know an "Alcohol Enforcement Officer"... drinks more than anyone I've ever met, and not in a good way.



the same could be said for guns. it takes someone pulling the trigger to kill.

i do want to add a bit of commentary on these developing stories. between this and the jose guerera case, both cases piss me right the fuck off and heres why. In both instances you have an overwhelming force subduing another. in this case, gun toting cop vs knife toting dude. in jose's case, an entire swat team vs one armed man. the end result was death, fucking wrongful, wasteful death.

now having said that, the commentary i would like to add is this: i know that in armed conflict and escalating situations such as these (presumably, even hypothetically, ie, he could have charged the cop with the knife off screen and an attacker can close distance in most cases faster than the shooter can react and fire) it takes steel nerves and lightning reflexes reinforced by training to make the decision to fire or not fire.

........however, when i was in afghanistan, i found myself in the middle of a legit "mexican standoff". long story short, my PCC team were to accompany the scout platoon to escort a rogue afghan border patrol police general back to our FOB to speak with his superiors. When we arrived to our PCC compound we found that he was there, along with over 100 of his loyals, preparing to mount a raid of their own (they were usually running illegal checkpoints, shit like that). Naturally when they figured out that we were there to detain their leader (in their eyes, our direct orders were to not detain but persuade him to come with us, if he refused we were to leave without incident). My CO talked with the general and persuaded him to willingly come with us.....but to his loyals, we were capturing him. within seconds, the guards they had in their towers had oriented their crew served weapons inwards, ANP loyals were loading their RPG's with armor piercers and taking fighting positions behind buildings oriented at us, you could hear dozens of ak's "racking" (chambering a round). There was over a hundred of them and less than 20 of us. Had it exploded into a firefight, we certainly woulved fucked all shit up.......but few, if any, of us were leaving alive. all it wouldve taken was one round to go off from either side to fully escalate that encounter to a full on gun battle. fortunately we kept our cool (as did the anp loyals), assessed the situation, navigated the battle space, reinforced by our training which emphasizes self control, discipline, and situational awareness, and we were able to diffuse the situation without incident. Not a single round was fired. and we had accomplished our mission (btw turns out the general had been hoarding police gun stocks, by the thousands, and had cached them at his house and was selling them off to taliban)

now my point being if i and the members of my team had the intestinal fortitude and mental tenacity to diffuse that highlyvolatile situation without incident, especially considering the higher stakes (this was in the middle of a fucking war, not in someones neighborhood or on a crosswalk), so to speak.......what is your fucking excuse Tucson swat team? what is your fucking excuse, cop in this video?

>> ^ponceleon:

Why do people keep saying he was an amateur? He was a police officer. He was anything but an amateur.


ponc, im saying he's an amateur, my above comment will give that context

hes as much an amateur as the dumbfuck dea agent who shot himself giving a weapon safety class http://videosift.com/video/DEA-Officer-Shoots-Self-in-Foot-while-giving-demo-on-gun-safety

I don't hear him identifying himself as a police officer... Before shooting a man in the back.

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

*snuff

*discard

See: http://videosift.com/video/Homeless-Hero-Sacrifies#comment-1907231

Discarding this post - discard requested by member lucky760.