Not a gender balanced production..and too short

Boo hoo, everyone's trying to fuck me.

Think about what that really means, Fishlegboots. It means these people feel they can't afford to be vulnerable, they can't just be themselves, they can't be real, they don't want to be warm or candid with people too much, because they don't want to give the wrong message.

As far as women go, believe it or not, but they don't necessarily want to be fucked by every dude that comes along.

in the end its down to your rationality and personality. if you happen to be good looking by the current social standards then you can identify that and then use intellect to decide if you want to use it to an advantage. if people shout things out you its pritty obvouse its not bassed on you as a person just your looks and if you wernt stupid then you would know that and not get emotinaly worked up about it. in the end looks that lead to love between people r completely subjective sure you have people who r good looking to the masses but everyone falls in love with querky looking people ore people that just match your biological prefrence. i think more important than looks is how sumone moves as long as sumone is not super deformed ugly if thay animate there face right and do eye contact properly thay can become very atractive to large numbers of people.

There's more to life than being really, really good looking...

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

It would be interesting to see the reverse story, about "ugly" people and what prejudices there are against them.

Good, but too *short

wwwwwwwwwwwwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're right gwiz, I would much rather hear the other side.

Yes, too short. In case you guys didn't catch this, it is Directed by Mark McKinney. McKinney who was a cast member of "Kids In The Hall"

It doesn't particular move me when people complain of good fortune. "Gee, people love me for my money", "I wish people wouldn't idolize me because I'm Steve Nash, and the best basketball player in the world" kind of thing.

The tragedy is when people who have used their "attractiveness" all their life, to get where they are, finally age and loose that appeal. Many have their self-worth rapped up in appearance, hence the popularity of plastic surgery.

It's just that these people deal with the looks and leers and comments EVERY SINGLE freakin day of their lives! My sister walks down our small town street and every guy in visible range has a long hard look. You can throw all the proper psychology at them you want, but just the sheer repetitive, constant, predictable reactions they get wears them down. It is a hard life.

"The tragedy is when people who have used their "attractiveness" all their life, to get where they are, finally age and loose that appeal. Many have their self-worth rapped up in appearance, hence the popularity of plastic surgery."
- and 'all their life' every person they meet reinforces their dependence on their looks, constantly. It's hard not to get brainwashed into thinking it's all you got.

"Used their attractiveness" was not a good term for me to use. Enzo has the better interpretation of "reinforcement." Studies have shown that "attractive" people are more often selected at job interviews, (given the same credentials), and more likely to be chosen as partners by the rich, (Duh).

I don't doubt that some suffer from their good looks. However, IMHO psychologically, the wallfower's suffering is far greater. Whether it was choosing sides for a game of dodgeball, or choosing partners at a school dance, the pain on the face of the last chosen couldn't be disguised. Things aren't going to be easier for today's kids, with digital photo enhancement raising the bar of beauty to unrealistic heights.

"Is this a mockumentary by any chance?" haha, I thought so too.

Damn! Way to spell, westy!!!!

As far as women go, believe it or not, but they don't necessarily want to be fucked by every dude that comes along.

I can personally vouch for this.

knowing that you are destined to be immediately judged on your looks first and formost ALL THE TIME is a hard burden but you know what? the pretty ones knows what that judgement will be just as us ugly ones know and judgement for the pretty ones usually is in their favor, unlike us ugly ones. but the judging is just as prevelant for the noticeably ugly as it is for the pretty. it just doesn't have a happy ending.

so while i know very well the burden they speak of, i don't feel too sorry; they still get the jobs, the free stuff, the choices that us uglies aren't given.

Yeah, I'm really with fishlegboots on this one.
I know it must suck to be constantly looked at like a piece of meat and all, and that not all woman want to be fucked by every guy that walks along, but as far as problems go, that's a pretty good one to have.

Would these people rather be stared at because they have a hideous deformity or skin disease? Would they rather be stared at because they can't afford proper dental care and are missing a their teeth?
How about just having to go through life living in a shitty house wearing shitty clothes? Or maybe no house at all? How about some cancer. Let's make it terminal. And let's take one of thier limbs off while we're at it.

So, in short, that's a problem I'd like to have, and I don't think they have any right to bitch. It's amazing how many stares women won't get because they decided to wear a shirt that didn't show cleavage.

Take my girlfriend for example. She works at a small coffee shop, and tells me she wears revealing shirts specifically because it nets her twice the tips. Coincidence? I think not.

Wow, I wish I was good looking too so I had something to complain about. Being ugly has been such a boon to my existence so far.

Lets all be charitable to these poor souls and tell the next good looking person we meet they look hideous. I'm sure it will make them feel much better.

I appreciated this video for the fact that it showed me something I hadn't thought much about before. Those are the videos that attract me, I am drawn to anything I didn't know. Everyone knows "ugly" people have it rough. This gave me insight to other people's experiences of life, the ones we least expect to have "issues"...further reinforcing that we're all in the same boat! When it comes to other realities (of all kinds, because I am a "surfer" ) I say, "Bring it on!"
That's why I upvoted this one.

Very Moving and understanding, Upvote

Another benefit to being beautiful is that random people on the internet will feel sorry for your relatively insignificant problems.

Upvote for making an average person feel better about looking average!

Unfortunately, most of the starving people don't have access to the internet to complain about the insignificant problems of the ugly people. But with this OLPC program, perhaps that will change.

Guess I'm lucky to be an ugly dude. I believe Frank Zappa said "Just remember if your cute or your beautiful, theres a lot more of us ugly motherf***ers than you all". I take solace in that fact

Comment edited for various reasons mostly having to do with my not having explained well enough, I'm sure, because otherwise, the response would have been too depressing.

It is easy to conceal beauty (loose clothing, baseball cap, fake skin blotch). There are limits to enhancing ugly to the point of beauty. So it seems the beautiful have an option the ugly do not.

I'm right there with nosro. Cram it. Your good looking. BooHoo. If anyone cared to look, all the females in that video were wearing make up. hmmmmmm and they dont want to be good looking?

A stupid indulgence in victimhood. The common thread these people complained about is that they felt that their physical attractiveness brought certain stereotypes along with it, i.e. she's pretty so she must stupid. The amazing thing about stereotypes like that is they evaporate within 30 seconds or so of actually talking to the stereotyped person. And people tend to want to talk to and get to know attractive people! How is this a problem again?

A first impression of a person will often be based upon stereotypes and that's true for all people, attractive or not. If this is the biggest source of suffering in these peoples' lives then they have got it really fucking good. With all the REAL problems that people face in the world, there is no reason to indulge this pointless victimization.

Wow, I found this video to be ridiculous. As someone who had to battle though a rather bad acne I just fail to relate to anyone in that video as being victimized because of their looks, period.

I would love to see the reverse of this...

"Do you know that you're ugly as hell?"

"Has anyone ever charged you more for sitting in their restaurant?"

^Maybe we should start our own Q&A.

We could call it "ART OF REPULSION: Not Pretty, At All".

I for one am happy to be middle grade. Not make the girls drool hot, or make the girls run screaming away in fear ugly.

I'm so ugly I make blind kids cry.

"i know i'm not unfortunate looking" - so should have been a quote from Zoolander.

All but one of those people had teeth so ludicrously perfect that their dentist might as well be Michaelangelo. They all wore trendy clothes and had tastefully done makeup and hair. A lot of them would pass for pretty average if they just went "au naturale." They wouldn't turn too many heads and get too much negative attention.

My daughter is absolutely gorgeous. When she was a baby people would stop me in the mall to take a better look. Then they'd tell me to put her in beauty pageants (I never did). All her life people have told her how pretty she is. We'd joke about it, trying to keep her grounded, but now she over-compensates and is a perfectionist. I'm pretty sure she's trying to prove that she is more than her looks. She's never made less than straight A's, must rank First Chair in orchestra, etc. She expects perfection from those around her, too. It's caused socialization issues at school and she doesn't have many real friends in High School. But...who did?

She's an awesome kid and is going to be a fine woman one day. She knows she could ride on her looks, but it's her brains that will get her what she really wants.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Hmm, so the spirit I'm hearing from a lot of you is - "how dare these beautiful people complain about anything?" I would say that you suffer from a severe case of "unable to walk a mile in another's moccasins".

When I see a beautiful woman, I like to imagine taking the epidermis off of her, so she's a walking pile of pink sinew and glistening muscle tissue. This helps me get a grip on my own "dermal-level" response to human sexual attraction. Beauty really is skin-deep, but the behavior that is caused by it can probably be a pain in the ass.

We know what turns us on as humans- symmetrical faces, large pupils, white sclera etc. Not to mention all of the secondary sexual stuff that works on another level. large, full lips are just body self-mimicry for a different set of lips ...

As self-aware beings, we need to keep in-check our animal nature and keep a look out for real beauty.

Kind of off-topic, but there's one other bit of body self-mimicry that I read about in The Naked Ape:
So, most primates do it doggie style- and large inflamed buttocks were the indicator that the female was in estrus. When humans started doing it missionary style - that big buttocks sexual indicator was replaced with something on the front of the body. Yep - big boobies. That's why we men are attracted to them - and why they are often large, even though they don't functionally need to be big to deliver milk.

So fellows, just think about engorged monkey arses, the next time you see a good set.

People are funny creatures. From a certain point of view this is all magnificent and grotesque. Why are we all so desperate to please? Because we can't see others, or ourselves as a totality. It helps to have a settled mind and a refined sense of humour.

Dantes theorem in reverse. To view the physog but no the aerse.

The statistics show that people do NOT assume beautiful individuals are less intelligent or honest. In fact, psychological research studies prove that people assume more attractive people are friendlier, more intelligent and more honest than unattractive ones.

Everyone has a cross to bear, some more readily visible than others. This does not mean that everyone is a victim, however. I'd downvote this if I could simply because sometime in the past decades it became socially encouraged to claim victim status as the solution to every problem.

I hope they follow this up with a documentary on how difficult it is to be a millionaire.

^ as a matter-of-fact there was something on TV about people who won the lottery and a large part of it was about how their lives had changed.

"Everyone has a cross to bear, some more readily visible than others. This does not mean that everyone is a victim, however. I'd downvote this if I could simply because sometime in the past decades it became socially encouraged to claim victim status as the solution to every problem."

I totally agree. To paraphrase Aeschylus: humanity is suffering. As you say, everyone in the world has a cross to bear, a source of suffering that they wish they could do without. Guess what? We're humans, not gods, and suffering is just part of the game we have to play.

That said, there are sources of real tragedy and there are sources of minor discomfort. Being too good looking would certainly fall into the latter category. Would any of these people interviewed trade in their good looks for a world in which the mortality rate for children was over 50%? Had they been born just 200 years ago, or in the developing world for that matter, the best looks in the world wouldn't save them from the experience of losing several children. As others have pointed out, the interviewees are all wearing trendy clothing and have absolutely perfect teeth. This suggests to me that none of them have had to experience the grinding desperation that is poverty. It is also highly unlikely that any of the men interviewed will be forced to fight in a war during their lifetime; in the ancient Greek world there was no such thing as a conscientious objector, warfare was incessant, and roughly half of all adult men would die on the battlefield as opposed to old age.

I could go on, but the point is that to live in the modern, industrialized world is to live as securely, prosperously and removed from suffering as human beings have ever been in our 150,000 year history as a species. Someone being "too good looking" is such a minor concern when put in the perspective of the developing world and the human past. If the greatest source of hardship in someone's life is that their good looks cause them some minor social discomfort, then they need to stop claiming victim status, wake up and get some perspective.

Definition: sympathy
Definition: understanding

The 2 are far from being the same. For some, the idea that they might be being asked to feel sympathy might offend. Can the idea that your being asked to have understanding EVER offend? I mean that seriously, can it?

This is not something that is seen with "understanding" by our culture (tbh, little is). It in noway detracts or lessons the experiences and feelings of others, whatever they might be, and however different they might be. It only seeks to share something that many might know nothing about, so that understanding of it can be increased.

When I see a beautiful woman, I like to imagine taking the epidermis off of her, so she's a walking pile of pink sinew and glistening muscle tissue.

Please tell me you're not making a suit.

Goodbye, horses...

99.999% of the time people don't want sympathy, they want understanding. being understood is really important to us all I'm sure, but sympathy is something very different and most of us DON'T want it if something bad happens to us. We don't want pity, we don't want people feeling sorry for us, but we DO want to be understood.

Attacking something because you feel no sympathy for it is an utter strawman when that was never what you were being asked to do/have/feel.

73.2% of statistics are made up and I'm going to stop ranting for a bit.

"...and it makes me feel ... NOT-pretty, really." By which she means the way she figures the rest of us feel all the time?

Nobody caught the weird comment at 1:07?

"people assume things about you","like being unintelligent, TWO-dimensional,..."

This struck me as an awesome thing for an person who probably works by being on a piece of paper or on tv to be complaining about. The saying is usually "you're so one-dimensional", btw.

It is amazing how complete is the illusion that beauty is goodness. --Leo Tolstoy

I do understand what they are saying and where they are coming from. What the people in this video are asking for is sympathy, no matter what comes out of their mouths, that's what they are saying.

I understand what they are saying, but I don't care. I still don't think they have the right to bitch. It's not hard for an intelligent pretty person to dispel the myth that they are stupid. It is easy for a pretty person to make themselves less attractive. Wear loose clothing. Wear more covering clothing. Don't do your hair up. Don't wear makeup.

And of course when the ratio of men outnumbers the amount if girls in a class/dorm/whatever, they become the center of attention. It would be the exact same way if there were 100 girls and 10 boys. There's only so many to go around.

One hot chick, some decent ones and some gay dudes. Bad cross-section of the beautiful people community.

Thanks for all the GREAT comments, everyone.

I personally believe that we should try to empathize with everyone, regardless of how trivial we perceive their problems to be, because maybe their problems really aren't so trivial. Yes, I can think of worse problems to have than being sexually objectified. Being horribly maimed or disfigured is just one example that I consider to be worse. Having severe mental illness is yet another, IMHO. However, we're in the 21st century and yet sexual harassment and the "glass ceiling" for women are still very real problems in the workplace, and pretty women are often the ones who find themselves in those situations. Also consider Marilyn Monroe. She struggled to get serious acting roles because she was often just considered "a face", and all her good looks didn't prevent her from taking her own life.

If you don't want to consider beautiful people as having any disadvantages, that's fine. However, I hope that after you've seen this video you'll look past the looks and try to learn more about attractive people you meet before you simply categorize them as "a face".

I'm also adding this to the *Canada channel, as I noticed that it was directed by KITH alumnus Mark McKinney, and it was also produced in cooperation with the National Film Board of Canada.

Adding video to channels (Canada) - requested by kronosposeidon.

Persephone:
"Think about what that really means, Fishlegboots. It means these people feel they can't afford to be vulnerable, they can't just be themselves, they can't be real, they don't want to be warm or candid with people too much, because they don't want to give the wrong message.

As far as women go, believe it or not, but they don't necessarily want to be fucked by every dude that comes along."

Sorry, but wtf? They feel they can't afford to be vulnerable, themselves, real? Are you saying that their need to remain attractive forces them to act in a certain way? That's just vanity.

They can't afford to be candid and warm with people because it [might be seen as flirting]???? I'm having to guess at what you mean here because you leave it all nice and vague. Are you saying that people will see an ugly person being nice and think "oh, she's nice", but see an attractive person being nice and go "she so wants me"? I don't believe that's true at all. People are more inclined to be attracted to attractive people (big shock, i know), when that person is nice, it means that they are less likely to get a big nasty knockback when they ask that person on a date.

If someone said to me "i know he's only being nice because he wants to get into my pants", i'd say "WELL AT LEAST HE'S BEING NICE, HE'S BEING A COMPLETE TOOL TO ME". There's a lot of asses out there. Ugly people get a lot of ass-attention too. It just comes in a different way. And given the choice between being bullied (mentally and/or physically) or avoided because you're "ugly", or having everyone be nice to me because i'm attractive, i know which one i'd choose.

I think this is absolutely pointless whinging. Mess your hair up, wear crappy clothes, don't wear make up. You do those things to make yourself more attractive, so don't complain when it works. And there are plenty of attractive women who do that.

Believe it or not, not every dude wants to fuck every woman that they see.

Babies.

Dag: "When I see a beautiful woman, I like to imagine taking the epidermis off of her, so she's a walking pile of pink sinew and glistening muscle tissue."

... That's what psychopaths do!

I'm gonna quote the gospel (of South Park) and say, "they're all pink on the inside".

I reserve the right to not feel sympathy for anyone I choose. Sure I understand that they have a problem but why should someone like me, who has had a lot more direct experiences thanks to my appearance, feel sorry for them?

Why should I, when the self image society has placed on me is that I'm worthless? I got over that stigma years ago and am quite happy, even if I do still get random chavs come up to me on the street and tell me I have big ears (seriously whats up with that?). If I can get over that they can can get over being too pretty.

No one should be told that they *must* be sympathetic to someone else.

Persephone,

As a decent looking straight guy, I sometimes get attention from people I don't find particularly attractive, or other guys. When this happens, my evolutionary instincts tell me to shun these people, but rather than give into my cold and pragmatic animal innards, I instead smile and treat the unwanted admirer with respect.

Admiration is a compliment, no matter who it comes from and it can feel pretty shitty when you are on the other side of this equation.

Yes, there is an attractiveness caste system, and yes, it serves an important evolutionary function, but isn't it our job as human beings to try to rise above some of the superfluous side-effects of our violent, prejudiced and cruel animal nature?

When someone from a higher attractiveness caste gives me a knowing glance or a wink, I don't interpret it as an invitation to sex, but rather as another human being, confident enough in their own moccasins to show some humanity.

I think it is a testament to the power of beauty that we feel empathy (yes, I feel it too) for people who are basically saying "OMG, ugly people are looking at me.... Make them stop!"

Dag,

If skinless corpses start turning up, we'll know where to send the cops.

Mix,

It sounds like your daughter could teach those in this video a thing or too. What instrument does she play?

MG,

Well said, I agree.

ScottishMartialArts,

Good point on the stereotypes. Speaking personally(Liberal/White/Male/American/Californian/Musician/Drummer), the only negative stereo-types that bug me are the ones that are true.

kronos,

You mention pretty women struggling with the glass ceiling, but again, as MG says, I think hitting the ceiling is the kind of problem you WANT to have. How many smarter/better qualified employees did these pretty women step over on their way up the ladder to the glass ceiling?

Good discussion all. I love dissecting these types of societal taboos.

this clip sucks so hard it made the Old Ones cry of joy.

I mean, really? You think this was... touching? Wtf?

I'd like to bind those "pretty girls" to a chair, have a pack of angry sad ugly girls, let them watch this, and then see their reaction.

I think I'd enjoy it very much.

I'm disgusted.

OK, I haven't weighed in for a while. I'm still with the "get over it" camp. But, at the risk of being labeled a "bleeding heart", the comments in this thread have brought to mind lyrics from an old 10cc album of mine, "Bloody Tourists", which, by the way, I recommend....

For the wallflowers out there...

"She may be quiet
She may be shy
But don't you bring her down
Don't pass her by
The world of wisdom behind her eyes
Could answer everything
But you and I
We seem to wander in a daydream (ooh ooh)
We never look around
The world is full of other people (ooh ooh)
And we put 'em down....

She's not beautiful
But don't make it plain
You underestimate
It's not a game
A heart of gold
Behind the drab
Would comfort anyone
But you and I
Should try to see it from the other side (oooh)
We'll get a shock
It could surprise you
The world is full of other people (ooh ooh)
Take a look around....
To wonder why
The world keeps turning
For you and I"

Hey mlx??..Does your daughter like unsophisticated, easy-going older dudes????...with good hygiene and earthen wisdom??? ( meanin' fer when yer older yerself youngster,-sounds like yer mum thinks yer suited for a hipper set.)

grass is always greener on the other side

It's a shame i'm too late to take on dag's "take the epidermis off" comment... Tons of good stuff for that one :-P

Based on Ekelk's comment, it probably *is* fair to put this in *femme, given the imbalance in the shabby treatment, I would argue, ladies receive vs. guys on this front.

Adding video to channels (Femme) - requested by Krupo.

Oh, and upvote for creating a secenario where it looks like choggie is hitting on mlx's daughter.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Just to be clear- I don't imagine actually taking the skin off of women - Really, I love the ladies. Especially ones with creamy, supple, well-moisturized skin.

This is one of those women dag may be into: http://www.videosift.com/video/cool-perfume-commercial-Puddle

The video is also, mind you, an example of one of the problems pretty people run into: they're so hot they make the opposite gender melt. Can you imagine how hard it is to get a date when everyone's a pile of liquid goo because of you?

Also, video from the 'ugly' side of the street... looks like 50+ of you need to check it out to even out the vote totals.

http://www.videosift.com/video/3-nerds-2-seduction-coaches-great-reality-TV

"Sorry, but wtf? They feel they can't afford to be vulnerable, themselves, real? Are you saying that their need to remain attractive forces them to act in a certain way? That's just vanity." [quoting dannym3141]

in my experience, the need to remain SAFE (sometimes emotionally, sometimes physically) forces me to act a certain way at times, closing off my natural openness in meeting people for one thing. gaining weight or losing weight at different times to try to be invisible, body modifications that put people off, not taking care of my appearance at all -- those are some of the options i've exercised to avoid "flattering" attention based solely on my looks. i'm NOT saying i've ever been one of the uber-hot, btw. but i can empathize with them based on my own experiences.

sorry if that was TMI, but that's a lot of what i like at VS: real thought-and-discussion-provoking videos, not *just* cute kittens, though that's great too.

so you think you're hot AND you're making fun of my cat and dog video? unbelievable...

hey CaptainP, cuteoverload is right up there on my favorites bar, i swear it! ;-)

> So fellows, just think about engorged monkey arses, the next time
> you see a good set.

Oh God that just makes it worse, I need a cold shower.

It just occurred to me that the film-maker should have interviewed Charlize Theron about her preferred appearance, that when filming "Monster" or just after when she had regained her svelteness. Now that I've mentioned her name, I'm going to the zoo, so I CAN stare at some monkey rumps, chew a few habaneros, and douse myself with some ice water.

The ability to empathize with others is not the same for all of us.

From Wikipedia:

By the age of 2, children normally begin to display the fundamental behaviors of empathy by having an emotional response that corresponds with another person. Even earlier, at one year of age, infants have some rudiments of empathy, in the sense that they grasp the intentions of other people. Sometimes, toddlers will comfort others or show concern for them as early as 24 months of age. Also during the second year, toddlers will play games of falsehood or "pretend" in an effort to fool others, and this requires that the child know what others believe before he or she can manipulate those beliefs.

In 1997, Douglas Olsen defined empathetic maturity as the cognitive structure that determines whether a person can feel or not feel empathy, who one feels it for and how broad a group. Differences in empathetic maturity are differences in the way a person relates self-created meaning to meaning perceived in others. Empathetic maturity provides the criteria for determining whether another will be experienced as "like me" or "different." More inclusive criteria increase the number and diversity of others who will be perceived empathetically. The highest of the hierarchical stages of empathetic maturity is the most inclusive where all others are perceived as "like me." (Olsen, 2001) There are three stages of empathetic maturity (Olsen, 2001; and Olsen, 1997):

Stage 1 – This most primitive pattern and not common in adults. Persons at this stage see others as fundamentally different from themselves. The rationales for another's actions, feelings, or thoughts are not experienced as having human relevance in the sense that one’s own rationales do. Those operating at this stage perceive mutuality with others concretely.

Stage 2 – People at Stage 2 hold that their rationales for behavior are valid for everyone. And so, reasons for behaviors and feelings are legitimate to the degree they coincide with the person at Stage 2. Unlike Stage 1, the Stage 2 person sees others like him or her so long as they make sense of their world the same way. Therefore, positive regard for a sufferer perceived to be participating in negative behaviors is difficult for the Stage 2 person unless the behavior is explicable from his or her point of view. An example of such negative behavior would be AIDS as the result of sex practices not condoned by the Stage 2 observer. If the Stage 2 person believes the sufferer is responsible for the behavior, he or she will have no empathy. If the Stage 2 person can detect an acceptable reason why the sufferer is not actually responsible, for example, illness resulted from blood transfusion, beyond the sufferer's control, then empathy emerges. Caregivers at Stage 2 who want to feel empathetic toward their patients often try to find factors that mitigate responsibility. Most of society operates at Stage 2.

Stage 3 – At this stage, mutuality occurs prior to any judgment about the person's behavior. The other is perceived as human in the same way the self is experienced, based solely on being a creator of meaning rather than on the content of the meanings created. The perception of another person as responsible for a problem no longer has the power to hinder the development of empathy. If the sufferer is seen as responsible, there is no longer any need to mitigate that responsibility as a method for allowing empathy. A hallmark of Stage 3 is a person's ability to perceive another empathetically while simultaneously and without apparent contradiction perceiving that other as responsible for problematic behavior.

All kidding aside for a moment, Eric, that was an insightful post. From my experience, while many people have an unbiased Stage 3 level of empathetic maturity to begin with, level twos are often converted to level threes when either, or both, of the following happens. (1) They have to provide direct care for someone suffering from the effects of a condition they previously weren't empathetic towards, or (2) they have friend or family that suffer from same. Reading, or watching films about the subject does not provide the direct emotional link to turn that key.

Snooze, it seems as if youve described someone that is now empathetic to a person, with a condition, they were not empathetic to before (level 2). I think its rare for people to find level 3 empathy. I see much more level 1 empathy than I do level 3. Look back on these comments.

Many people use the word sympathy when they describe empathy. With sympathy you share the feelings(experience them yourself)with those you are sympathetic towards. Empathy you can relate to or understand how someone is feeling.

"victim..." - wonder showzen

Because I was asked to post here instead...

I'll preface this by saying i've long been a lurker, but haven't felt the need to create an account until this madness started. I, too, am female. I've been told i'm attractive. That doesn't mean I complain about it. In fact, I really don't think it's all that terrible.

Take a look at all of this. Can you find a single woman who hasn't chimed in "Oh no! My life is terrible, too. Other people think i'm pretty!" Look really hard. You'll probably only find one, and that's only because she hasn't been on here in quite a while.

Maybe you should all (with the exception of Smibbo) stop posting about how life is oh-so-terrible because you're beautiful. Maybe the problem is that you need your head examined because you don't have the self-esteem to handle compliments.

I am heading into my senior year of Engineering. Needless to say, i'm one of very few females in my classes. In fact, I was one of three in a class last semester. Conveniently, the teacher always had us working in groups, and never had the girls together. Was it awkward? Yes. Was I hit on? Sure was. But I know how to accept compliments, and don't let things like that bother me.

I have a job where I occasionally use my femininity to my advantage. It makes me quite a bit of money. Do I have lecherous, disgusting male customers? Of course. But I don't go complain to everyone else who is female that will listen.

Yeah, maybe all the boys staring at you does get a little old. Sometimes even irritating. But it's not a problem until you make it into one. And if you can't do that, don't dress up. Stop attracting attention to yourself. Stop trying so hard. Why do you do it in the first place? To feel pretty. Women deny it, but everyone knows it's true.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and stop making such a big deal out of nothing. There will always be someone who finds you attractive. Take it as a compliment and move on.

Being pretty is an advantage.

*wayOverrated

People often describe empathy as the ability to "put yourself in the other person's shoes." I think it's hard to do, absent a prior sharing of sympathetic feelings, or sharing of identical circumstance. For instance, I wasn't even close to sufficient empathy with depressed people, until I experienced it. Because I don't know anybody, personally, who has ever complained of being too attractive, and because I've never been attractive enough to warrant that problem, I guess it is a little hard for me to empathize here. I would guess that's the reason the posts have leaned the way they have.

re: choggie, I think I just had heart palpitations. lol.

ohh boohoohoo. The lady that is crying needs to go fucking kill herself in some extraordinarily slow and painful way. There's millions of people that would want to trade places with her. I'm sure life is so tough that people give you shit for being pretty and that it makes getting promotions easier. So you have to fucking deal with a few wierdo's. That's nothing compared to the people who bust their balls to get a promotion but get overlooked because somebody else is prettier. People like her piss me off to no end.

Life's hard. Being good looking isn't.

"Take a look at all of this. Can you find a single woman who hasn't chimed in "Oh no! My life is terrible, too. Other people think i'm pretty!" Look really hard. You'll probably only find one, and that's only because she hasn't been on here in quite a while.

Maybe you should all (with the exception of Smibbo) stop posting about how life is oh-so-terrible because you're beautiful. Maybe the problem is that you need your head examined because you don't have the self-esteem to handle compliments." [quoting LitteRed]

maybe that's how my comment came across, but that's absolutely not what i was trying to get at. what i empathize with is not the experience of "oh, i'm hot, i get things, it's a burden" but "i feel devalued and dehumanized when i'm judged by my looks alone." and that includes "positive" or "negative" reactions.

i'm glad that you have high self-esteem, but your post was really condescending. the people in this video are reporting THEIR experiences of being beautiful people. it's a documentary asking about their personal experiences. you have some ideas on the problem here. maybe another problem here is that you are projecting your experiences onto these people (and those of us who posted things that go against your opinions).

and for chaucer up there with the mean comments about the lady at the end, you have no idea what motivates her tears. i realize it's my projection now but what i felt from her was sadness, not self-pity.

Why this crap is the number 1 sift right now I'll never know. You could listen to the narcissistic whining of the troubles of being beautiful all day or you could stop and realize that the benefits vastly out weigh the oh-so-hard to deal with hardships.

I love that these "beautiful" people fell for Mark McKinney's expose.

I think this (the video and comments) just demonstrate that having something doesn't make your life necessarily more happy. Obviously these folks are showing that being attractive doesn't make their lives good by itself. The same could be said of having money. There is a point where having more doesn't increase happiness.

As LittleRed noted, at the end of the day, it is how you do with what you've got that bring satisfaction.

Well I guess my only question now is, who's hotter in real life? KalamityKate or Miss Red Riding Hood? Wait no, I mean, young ladies, you make excellent points.

I agree with Kate that it is wrong to assume that the girl in the video is crying over nothing, or she is doing so just because she is beautiful... granted, that bit was lumped together with the other pretty minor complaints by everyone else, but I would think that the mere fact that she is crying is probably indicative that whatever it was she experienced was indeed pretty terrible... because as she said, some comments just do not make you feel pretty, they make you feel objectified, and even dirty.

I'm not talking about the basic, "You're very pretty" kind of compliment, but the kind that borders on, or is, sexual harrassment... you can't know unless its happened to you how terribly frightening and disgusting it is to be trapped in a elevator with a man who can't help but stare lecherously at you, and then ventures to say (true story), "I'd like to fuck you if you let me" Out of the blue, just like that, its terrifying, does not make one feel pretty but rather dirty somehow, and yes, it does bring out tears. Or there are even sometimes worse incidents involving coworkers or fellow students, where the objectification is continuous and after a while it becomes more than tiresome but rather stressful to have them all keep track of what you wear everyday, whether or not it shows off anything, or have them (rather publicly) get a pool going to see which of them will get to fuck you first (not kidding, guys, who are seemingly otherwise professional sorts, do actually do this kind of shit), which makes you begin to hate yourself and not want to go into school or work everyday. I'm not suggesting that this does not happen to those who aren't considered "beautiful" (whatever that cultural construct might currently be), but its damaging, and I can completely relate to where that girl is probably coming from.

maybe i'm nuts, or maybe i don't have the right to say this but the POINT is not that those pretty don't have a "right" to the claim "being pretty ain't all its cracked up to be" but that the main negative - falsity and objectivication are negatives that EVERYONE experiences. Believe it or not beautiful people we uglies have to deal with that too!! ZOMG!! However, we DON'T get to have all the little perks that being beautiful gives you.

So let's summarize:
being beautiful - can include being objectified and having false friends
being ugly - can include being objectified and having false friends
Being beautiful - can include getting free stuff, getting picked first for opportunities, being first in line for social events
being ugly - none of the above

so
being beautiful - maybe the downsides and definitly some perks
being ugly - same downsides, noneof the perks

now WHAT are we feeling sorry for?

being harrassed, degraded and devalued has little to NOTHING to do with your looks; it has to do with being FEMALE becase *gasp gasp*
UGLY WOMEN GET THAT TOO

Although many have already put it very well in this thread, I will repeat it.

Welcome to the level playing field. If someone's distressed by being "too attractive", they can do something about it to be less so (perhaps the women in this video could put on less makeup, for a start?), and/or they can strive just as hard as everyone else has to in order to be recognized for other things, like intelligence, skill, talent, or whatever. Yes that's right - those who aren't 'pretty', and the 'ugly' have it even worse - must also fight to be something real. Those who are pretty have full access to the playing field plus an optional advantage. Those who are not, do not. Grow up a bit and learn more about life, and you'll be thankful for your blessings instead of cursing them.

Hey, I' ve reached the third level of empathy!
I understand these people's problems and why they would feel that way.
And yet at the same time, I don't give a shit!

wow little red has it together.....take some lessons, goils-"Know Thyself"

sooo....who's the asker, red??? hehehehhe
(don't ya wanna be in the, "sifters who get their girls to join" club)

I belong to the cannon man.

Should women (pretty or not) be allowed to vote or drive a car? Just kidding, I know that kind of question would put me in hot water on here.

chapter 2 tao te ching

Under heaven all can see beauty, for there is already ugliness.

All know there is good, for there already is evil.

Therefore having and not having emerge together.

difficult and easy lie opposite to each other .

Long and short compare;

High and low lean upon each other;

Front and back follow each other

Therefore the saint exercises 'non-action' to do things, and

exercises, 'non-talking' to teach.

He initiates nothing, and allows ten thousand things to grow:

Rising, yet not considering he did it;

Achieved, yet he does not consider that he completed it.

Therefore, all the work he did last forever. Lao Tzu

I'm 6'6". I could bitch about it, but I understand it's worse to be too short than too tall in today's society. So I don't, even though there are minor inconveniences, like having a limited selection of cars I can drive, or having my legs jammed into airline seats. Being too pretty is another one of those cases where I think they've lost their perspective on the opposite.

Offer to toss a flask of acid in their face, and see how many take up the challenge to live life "on the other side". Oh? What? They don't actually want to be ugly? Then stop complaining about being too pretty.

I beat the 3rd level of empathy just fine, but the boss battle at the end of the 4th level is just impossible without a cheat code.

Just wanted to lay down the hundredth comment.
Great discussion guys.

you really want to hear about the Hardship of being pretty, read "Invisible monsters" by chuck palahniuk

Why does it matter what someone is upset about. You have to make sure that your empathy is deserving. Of course if you deem it not deserving, you then have to bag on them.

^ Darn tootin'! It's an obligation.

These people don't have the worst lot in life, and none of them are complaining. They've been invited to talk about their reality. This angle is something most people haven't thought about. And any art that makes your mind move in a different way is worth making.

Now that this thread is dead. I can finally necropost.

This video lammmmmmeeee lammee lammmmeee lamy mclame.

That is all.

Breakfast Club

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Saturday, December 8th, 2007 5:31am PST - promote requested by eric3579.

here's my impression of all of you 10 months ago:

"oh look at me, blah blah blah, here's MY opinion"

"well no that's not right, this is MY opinion because blah"

This is directed by Mark McKinney - same guy from the Kids in the Hall?

*controversy

Yes, it is a hard life.

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Interesting discussion. Remember when sifters used have these? Me neither. *promote.

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Friday, December 7th, 2007 4:54pm PST - promote requested by Norsuelefantti.

Jesus, I need a fucking job. I just read every single comment in this video.