Colberts editortial

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I've been a fan of Sarkeesian for awhile and maybe someone can enlighten me. It blows me away that there is that much opposition to her views... She's not really nitpicking seems to me, the tropes she brings up are pretty obvious and irrefutable. I don't buy it that men dominate the gaming and are willing to shoot schools up rather than concede the patriarchy. Who/where are these guys and what is their real opposition?

I try to watch opposition videos, but the ones I bothered with all go ad hominem immediately like rabid dogs and pretty much stay there. What gives?

I also don't like this interview - she's got so much more to say and she's not solely a gamer feminist.

Check out some of thunderf00ts videos on sarkeesian (youtube thunderf00t sarkesian).

Level headed response and breaks down this social crusader for what she really is.

Someone thats making noises to get money for her videos / books whatever. She sounds reasonable, until you hear the other side....and then you cant fathom how you could have ever believed her bullshit to begin with.

Speaking for myself I would say that I don't really agree with her assertion that mass media in general or video games in particular are the primary driving force behind sexism, misogyny or violence against women in the real world. I don't think there's ever been a conclusive study that makes that connection and much of this is basically the violence in video games causes real violence, only repackaged with a feminist twist. In her latest video she states that violence against women in games trivializes the violence that happens to women in real life, but then says nothing about it trivializing violence against anyone else (I guess men just don't matter as much as women). She accuses the industry of using women as little more than set pieces but then fails to acknowledge that many of her examples are NPCs, who are by definition set pieces and that goes for both men and women. She basically shows us a bunch of clips from various games and pulls them completely out of context and writes her own narrative for them. So, show everyone a bunch of shocking images and tell them what they mean, and hope everyone just takes your word for it and doesn't think too hard about it.

@Enzoblue

Thunderf00t is probably the least level-headed response you will find. His video is terrible for a lot of reasons, mostly because he does all the same things Anita Sarkessian is accused of doing (for example, cherry-picking) to an exponential degree, but I recommend you watch it anyway and draw your own conclusions.

As much as some Gamergate supporters would like the movement to be about ethics in gaming journalism, it has its roots in a witch-hunt started by claims from a jilted ex-boyfriend that his girlfriend (Zoe Quinn) slept with reporters to get good reviews--claims that were later shown to be completely untrue but not before the Gamergate movement had found a cause to rally around. From the very start, the movement had trouble separating actual journalistic ethical problems (i.e. gifts from game publishers to game reviewers... see pretty much any tweet or video by TotalBiscuit about Gamergate for a reasoned overview of the problems) from anti-feminist screeds against Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and later Brianna Wu. And it only got worse over time.

To understand why people might be opposed to Sarkeesian's critiques, you should probably read: this article. Just to summarize the article's main thesis: there is a group of gamers out there who refuse to see a problem with the status quo and make the claim that anyone trying to point out a problem is demanding special privileges. This is not to say that Sarkeesian's critiques aren't without flaws. It is rather to explain how so many people got enraged by her analysis that they felt the need to personally attack her.

So, to put it in a nutshell, there ARE some problems with gaming journalism but they are akin to the same kinds of problems entertainment journalism has in general (Colbert's point). But there are also some serious problems with gaming culture that were brought under the magnifying glass by the whole Gamergate phenomenon.

Frankly, as a "hardcore gamer" (30+ years of gaming experience including games across dozens of consoles and the PC), watching the "debate" on the topic has been embarrassing to say the least. Gaming was finally overcoming the stigma and stereotypes that it had been shackled with before this thing blew up and made us look like the bunch of socially inept man-babies the rest of society assumed we were.

I think not only is it going to take years for our social image to recover, it is going to take years to overcome the toxicity that has pervaded the debate. People on both sides are seriously butt-hurt about how everything went down and the back and forth has been more on the emotional side than the intellectual, leading to lots of flame wars and very little critical reflection.

Her videos don't make the argument that games cause violence against women or anyone else. She analyzed the roles of women in games and found trends in how they were portrayed. These were not flattering portrayals (for example the "Damsel in Distress" portrayal) and male characters were not often treated in the same way in games. She's pointing out how off-putting that can be to potential and actual female gamers and recommending women be portrayed in a more realistic manner. She's also pointing out how games are reinforcing the sexist and misogynistic messages that already exist in society. I don't think she is claiming media is the root cause of either sexism or misogyny.

Games ARE changing and including less "Trope-y" content and more well-rounded characters. And that's partly BECAUSE of her critiques (the creative director on The Last of Us has publicly stated her work heavily influenced the character designs and story of the game).

But I don't see that as a reason to not call out certain games for falling back on tired and occasionally demeaning representations of women.

I get her point about how women are represented in many games, but certainly not all games. There are also many strong, intelligent female characters out there, and a good dose of ineffective, whining, useless male characters too.
If she and other women feel under represented, they need to buy more games like 'The Last of Us' and support realistic characters in gaming. If games like that sell, game companies will make more of them...guaranteed. It's a supply and demand issue, they just need to create more demand and what they want will be supplied.
On another note, she and others need to keep in mind that most gaming is FANTASY, and as such does not realistically represent men or women. Asking it to do so is akin to asking sci-fi writers to be less inventive and more down to earth in their stories, or movie makers to be more realistic when making movies about the Matrix. It's kind of missing the point.

The problem with Anita Sarkeesian is that she's essentially, a hack. The whole gamergate incident has been one ugly affair, and absolutely there are valid points on both sides. But Sarkeesian is still someone who knows nothing about games, doesn't like games in the slightest, but tries to pass off as a gamer. And there are videos of just 4 years ago, of her saying to an audience she doesn't like videogames, she's not a fan. This person who doesn't even like or play videogames comes in, and starts pointing fingers around saying that this and that are wrong and that this and that must be changed. That, I think, more than anything is what pisses gamers off.

You wanna know what I think is the problem? What REALLY made this happen? Not the Zoe Quinn scandal. That was just the event that ignited the powder keg. A terrible event obviously. Her private life is nobody's business (unless it was absolutely true she got reviews from sleeping around with game journalists, which it wasn't).

The actual powder keg, was the CONSTANT barrage of pseudo-feminist and patronizing articles on sites like Kotaku. Day in and day out. A site for gamers who was, essentially, constantly offending their target audience.

I think she's opportunistic and more interested in pumping up her profile than legitimately advancing feminism.

She picked the one media that was guaranteed to get a worldwide furor (the 'establishment' loves to hate vid games, but movies/books/magazines or heaven forfend rap bloody music, meh, yesterdays news) by lambasting mostly male, mostly young guys for playing games where, frequently, women fulfill the same stereotypical roles they do everywhere else in our culture...

The same demographic that is most likely to, clad in the armour of anonymity and mounted on the soapbox of the internet, to say the most horrible and abominable things (things they would never dare say to the face of an actual female)...

She's a troll and she barely needed to bait to get the desired reaction... Ironically, she's also patronising as hell because us guys are obviously too fucking stupid to understand that women are still objectified... /eyeroll

But the internet will keep giving her exactly what she wants (and needs) to stay relevant. Like any good troll, they only go away if you actually ignore them, and that ain't going to happen.

ps. For the record, I have no skin in the GG bs either way, the whole thing is a bad joke and completely abrogated so idiots on either side of the line can insult and attack each other.

Yes, she's great at pointing that out.

What's the solution?

Quota's of protagonists sex? Replacing "damsel" with "prince" in distress? Getting rid of chainmail bikinis?

Oh, and how do we propagate that to the entire entertainment industry?

There is nothing wrong with playing a prince and rescuing a princess. There is nothing wrong with the princess being helpless. There is nothing wrong with Femmeshep kicking the shit out of the reapers and saving every being in the known universe, one of the most badass female protagonists around. More female protagonists = great, bring it on, but that's no reason to throw out a trope as old as time (incidentally, a trope enjoyed by a great many women who like to watch sappy romances where the charming fellow rescues the woman from her crappy life...).

Her series predicates on the concept that players are too fucking dumb to understand the difference between real life and the game. That if you play Duke Nukem, you'll walk around slapping girls tits and saying the most inappropriate things you can think of.

It's exactly the same tripe that Jack Thompson was peddling back in the day, games change how you think. And, for most people (ie. the mentally stable...), it was wrong then and it's wrong now. Your upbringing and parental guidance, and the relationship your male role models have with women, are far more likely to determine whether or not a man is likely to be sexist/misogynist than a few games with scantily clad girls needing a big strong man to save them... Society has changed to become more accepting of race, creed, sexual orientation and, of course, women, and it will continue to become so even if the old trope of the princess is in another castle hangs around. It may take generations before inequality dies out, if it ever does. It's not something you can fix by complaining about games.

The problem is that Sarkeesian is a moderately bright person making moderately reasoned arguments about a tiny niche phenomenon... and most everybody opposing her, including in this thread, are ridiculous fucking whiners with appallingly dumb arguments about a tiny niche problem... So there's really no other conclusion than "games are dumb", "gamers are dumb", and the internet makes these things exponentially worse. I like gaming but recognize it for the horribly stunted and immature medium it is, just like I love big dumb superhero comics and recognize them for the horribly stunted, immature art form they represent.

Neither Sarkeesian nor her detractors are really willing to accept Colbert's best point in this video - that ethics in gaming journalism is a ridiculous issue, because gaming journalism is ridiculous and gaming is ridiculous. You don't see readers of actual literature go around trying to form a self-defensive subculture, or whine that some review site "offends its target audience," because literature, movies, and music (as media) don't have to serve as some insecure little group's protection blanket from the world.

There is misogyny in some mainstream games (from memory, I found GTAV to occasionally veer in that direction) but the examples she gives are so wrong they're either exaggerated, ignorant or purposefully misleading.

Dragon Age? Hitman? Really? Neither of these games can be in any way characterised as misogynistic. Dragon Age has strong main female characters, it displays the mistreatment of women but also racism and genocide. Hitman actively punishes you for killing civilians and gender really has little bearing on the game at all.

Slightly more women play mobile games than men today. Even before that we had the success of the Wii's general appeal and the huge sales of The Sims series before that. AAA titles still veer towards violent themes but that is not misogyny. If her views gain traction it's more on the basis of the preconceived and uninformed views of the general adult public rather than reality.

Pretty sure this discussion goes in *femme

Adding video to channels (Femme) - requested by Morganth.

Aside from the fact half the females you meet are huge-boobed strippers/hookers/gangster molls. Often in bondage gear for some reason. And that's not even getting into that whole nun trailer debacle.

I really enjoy the series, they're excellent puzzle games and I've played them all multiple times, but I would never claim they depict women in anything but a terrible light.

Dragon Age I'll skip because it didn't have characters of any gender, it just had bored voice actors reading thousands and thousands of lines of turgid dialogue.

Christina Hoff Sommers alluded to Sarkeesian as part of an "army of critics, gender activists and... hipsters with degrees in cultural studies", who she said have unfairly attacked masculine video game culture.

Just in case anyone wants to hear what a real, level-headed feminist thinks about Sarkeesian and the current wave of Neo-Femmes that seem to not want only equal rights, but greater ones then men. Feminism today is not about equality, even though Sarkeesian paid brief lip service to it in this interview, it's about knocking men down a peg or two below women.

I'm all for equality. I love games with the option for a male or female protagonist. What I don't love, and will never support with my money by purchasing it, are the games that shoehorn a female character in with no regard to story or content.

Thanks to all. Just to be clear, below is exactly what distresses me. It's pure ad hominem and not a single sentence refutes any of her claims or argues any of her points, it just refutes her as a person and adds emotion but doesn't help with the rational decision I'm trying to make.

No there are not valid points on Both sides. There is a valid point on one side that there is sexism in media. There is no valid points on the other side, their only very stupid point was that games media should be unlike any other media in the world and be completely unbiased.

People shouldn't believe that media should be unbiased, it's bullshit. All media has human beings, it will all be biased. The point is whether or not how they report on things is dishonest or not. If you can't read and you just look at the stupid fucking numbers at the bottom of a game review, then you deserve to buy a game that sucks.

I think we have a lot of deluded posters here that are unaware of just how much propaganda we're inundated with in the democratic world. In a democracy you have to propagandize to people in order to get them to do what you want. You don't have a tyranny and a big stick to force them, you have to "Manufacture Consent" or the bewildered herd.

So what some people are doing is pointing out rightly that what is portrayed in media is up for criticism. The fact that some women have done it and are being driven from their homes by threats is a travesty. And it's pathetic to see whatever lame defenses the people in this comment section have come up with.

I've tried very hard to stay out of this GamerGate bullshit because frankly people are just stupid, even when they think they're being even handed about it. Apparently context means nothing to those who are privileged, yes that's you.

Yes there is something wrong with it, it's the most boring story in existence.

^
Upvoted the wrong comment. Sorry. I meant to upvote Asmos' comment. Will downvote this comment in 10 years when I hit whatever precious metal status that lets me.

I down voted the prick. @Yogi's an asshole and he knows it. He is however my favorite asshole.

I'll admit I more based it on the older games in the series as I didn't play much of Absolution. The trailer was certainly sexualised but it hardly depicts women in some kind of subjugated or helpless role (yes, they die but that's not the point). I'd compare it to something you would see in a Tarantino movie. It was the comments she made about it (she referred to a section where apparently you're incentivised to kill hookers, which is not true).

When someone claims to have the moral higher ground, I can assure you that the personality of the person making the claim is absolutely an integral part of the issue.

Edit: And besides her claims are in many cases unsubstantiated and highly manipulated. I know someone already mentioned a thunderf00t video, and I don't know if it's this one, but just watch it. It's pretty fucking pathetic just how manipulative and a liar she is when conducting her "research".

Edit 2: Or she could just be really, really dumb. Either way, she sucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRSaLZidWI

Seriously? This just feels like you're trolling

Gamergate is a fucking farce. The relationship happened, the review did not. It is entirely a backlash against "Social Justice Warriors", who are perceived as wanting to soil this pastime with their "Political Correctness" or something.

I can't quite believe it is making mainstream news, I don't understand why it hasn't died yet. It makes me sad to think there are apparently enough idiots shouting loud enough to make this anywhere close to a big deal.

If there are enough idiots shouting loud enough to take media hostage over political correctness, I'm pretty sure there are enough idiots to shout loud enough for the polar opposite.

Virtue lies in the middle.

There are serious problems with Sommers video. If anyone hasn't seen it yet, watch it here.

Basically, her argument is "I looked at some literature (I'm not going to tell you what though) and I concluded there is no misogyny in gaming. You can trust me because I call myself a Feminist."

That's called "appeal to authority" and it's a logical fallacy.

The hugely ironic thing is that anti-Sarkeesian people are constantly going on about Sarkeesian is not qualified to critique games because she only played some of the games she talks about in the videos and watched YouTube game footage of the rest. Yet Sommers admits in the start of this video that she hasn't played video games since Pac Man in the 80s! By anti-Sarkeesian standards, she's even less qualified to talk about games than Sarkeesian is.

But that doesn't stop people who don't like Sarkeesian from trotting out this video as some supposedly magical proof that Sarkeesian's arguments have been debunked.

I thought the solution was rather obvious, actually.

You fix things by making games where people are portrayed as... people. Not trophies to be acquired, not sexual objects to be drooled over, and not stereotypes.

You couple that with continued criticism of games that continue to rely on sexist, racist, or homophobic tropes.

And guess what? That's already happening. People have been saying that games need to change for a while before Sarkeesian showed up. Bioware acknowledged the issues and started trying to include more realistic characters in its RPGs years ago--and caught flak for it even back then.

To address your other... points?

My daughter asked me the other day why she can't play as the princess in Super Mario Galaxy 2 (or any of the other Mario games we own). And I had to tell her it's because the Princess got kidnapped. Her response was to ask if she could play as the Princess once we freed her from Bowser. And I had to tell her no.

There is something wrong with that!

After having that conversation with my daughter I fired up Torchlight, where I'm currently playing as a Vanquisher. Vanquisher's are rogue-like ranged characters and can only be female. If you want to be a warrior ("Destroyer" in game terms) or magic user ("Alchemist" in game terms), sorry--it's a men's only club. And not only that, but Vanquisher's--regardless of the armor they wear, must bare their midriff and wearing a mini-skirt showing lots of leg and cleavage (do a google image search for Torchlight Vanquisher to see what I'm talking about). Apparently you can't be a Vanquisher without being a sex pot too.

There is something wrong with that! (To be fair, they got better with Torchlight II and allowed any class to be any gender and allowed the women to cover up with armor OR choose to be sexy).

Society doesn't just change by itself. You're right, society is becoming more accepting of diversity--because people are fighting very hard for it.

Take America's attitude towards homosexuality. Look at the strides made in the last 20 years. That didn't just magically happen. There were TV shows that portrayed homosexuals as human beings worthy of respect. There were lawsuits. There were marches and protests. There were speeches. There were YouTube campaigns like "It gets better." A lot of people worked fucking hard to get the message out that bigotry is not okay.

Look, I'm sorry people pointing out to you how fucked up it is how women are sometimes portrayed in games is somehow ruining your ability to enjoy games. But there are serious problems here. Maybe not problems for you, but problems for people like my daughter.

The solution to these problems is not to lambast the people pointing them out. Nor is the solution to sit back and do nothing and hope it all works out for the best. One solution, as I've already stated, is to be openly critical of the messages contained in ALL media (including games). Another solution is to be vocal about the need for more realistic and diverse portrayals of people in ALL media (including games).

You can still have your Damsel/Dude in Distress trope, by the way. I have no doubt lazy developers will continue to use it as a substitute for meaningful story. Just don't expect people not to call out the utter absurdity of it, is all I'm saying.

Yep. I am still amazed that people think being on the side that perceives "Social Justice Warrior" as an insult says something good about them.

And you are right in that people do need to speak up when there is a problem, and Sarkeesian has every right to criticize video games or anything else for that matter. The solution to the problem should come from reasoned debate of the issues, not just playing yes man to feminist ideologues.
I do agree that more diversity in games and other forms of media can only benefit both the industry and the consumers. So I don't see any reason why women shouldn't go forth and make those games where the princess rescues the prince, or rescues herself, or whatever, and if it's a good game I'll buy it.
At work today I was reminded of the incredible diversity you can find in Manga, almost everyone reads them over in Japan and as a result they can cover a mind boggling array of topics. I read stuff like Shirow Miwa's 'Dogs', or anything by Masamune Shirow (Appleseed, Ghost In The Shell), and Tsutomu Nihei (Blame, Biomega, Knights Of Sidonia). Many people of course would think of all the hentai sex books out there, that's what gets most of the press after all, not stuff like 'With the Light' which was about the struggles of a mother raising an autistic child, ran from 2000 to 2010. It's probably not my bag but it's an example of where two wildly different things can exist in the same ecosystem.

Actually she doesn't need to call herself a feminist, because she a widely recognized one. I was simply quoting what she said regarding the 'new wave' of feminists that have arisen in the past few years. This group is simply the next wave of PC thought police that have decided what is good and right for us to consume.

We both have pretty strong opinions on the issue and I doubt that either of us are going to persuade the other. I will say that in this day and age of simple graphic games being big hits and app store games also taking off, the market is there for people to try making games that cover more diverse scenarios. If there is a large another audience that hungers for the games, then they will be made and they will be successful. If they are successful long enough, AAA tier developers will take notice and start making them as well.

But, in the end, we are talking about games. They are fun, but there has not been one yet that made me want to start picking up hookers and beating them or pretending to be a stealth killer. Games do not program our thoughts and morals; our families, friends, and other life experiences do.

Your "obvious" solution has been progressing for years... Indeed Sarkeesian cherry picks games that offend her, but ignores that there are quite a few more games where women are protagonists, and /shock horror even dressed appropriately...

It's obviously not good enough for her, or apparently you...

As for your daughter and Mario, no, there's not something wrong with that. There are quite a few games (and more are coming) with female protagonists. Perhaps you should introduce her to Child of Light? Or let her play through the Longest Journey series? Guess what, not every game is going to give you the choice of a male/female protagonist, and I'm not sure why it's required. Honestly, I'd love it if reality TV shows about dumb socialites would disappear from the entertainment spectrum, but sadly I don't get to dictate to the media (or indeed the viewing public) what they should be doing.

In response to your points about the fight, you're right, and it should keep going and we should all try to support it. But Sarkeesian undermines that fight. Not because she dares to speak out, but how she does it. In her attacks, and they are attacks, she tars all male gamers as either deliberately misogynistic or hopelessly naive. That's great, really, you convince people to support you by insulting them continuously?

As for this snide little bit of crap...

"Look, I'm sorry people pointing out to you how fucked up it is how women are sometimes portrayed in games is somehow ruining your ability to enjoy games. But there are serious problems here. Maybe not problems for you, but problems for people like my daughter. "

This is a problem you and Anita share... Presumption. That just because I think she's a hack, that somehow she's ruining my fun (she isn't), that I support a male character domination of the industry (I don't), that there shouldn't be more strong female characters represented (there should) and so on and so forth. You have concocted a scenario in your head and jumped straight to the insults without ever bothering to find out what my opinion on the games (as opposed to the person blasting them) is...

Would it be sexist/misogynist to think that the woman in the article is batshit insane?

http://thelibertydoll.com/2014/08/22/meet-woman-reduce-male-population-90-for-peace/

Not because she's a woman, but because of what she's saying, and how she's saying it. This is why I object to Sarkeesian and think she's a shameful opportunist who's willing to set back feminism in her quest for fame or perhaps relevance..

"You can still have your Damsel/Dude in Distress trope, by the way. I have no doubt lazy developers will continue to use it as a substitute for meaningful story. Just don't expect people not to call out the utter absurdity of it, is all I'm saying."

Oh, it's my trope now... /eyeroll

I can't point out how ridiculous it is to try and kill off a trope that pervades every aspect of human story telling since the dawn of time without it becoming my personal favourite? Pro tip, if you're trying to convince someone of a viewpoint, it usually helps not to be a patronising git... X D

QED

"Anita" is spelled wrong in the title.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Colbert, Sarkeesian, gamerfate' to 'Stephen Colbert, Anita Sarkeesian, gamergate' - edited by xxovercastxx

I love this comment.

People sure care a lot about this.

Up for new title.

I guess you're just too cool for the rest of us gwiz.

These topics have been on peoples minds for a while. All that was needed was a catalyst. That's why people can't even agree on what gamergate even is.

Yo damn right.

But seriously folks,
I care plenty about the 3-4 separate issues that GamerGate supposedly are, but I haven't been wanting to engage in it, because it just seems like a big pile of crap that all gets lumped together

Issues I've seen in it so far:
1) Girl developer sleeps with game journalist - ex boyfriend angry
2) Journalistic Ethics about being a "good ol boys club" but with hippie feminists instead.
3) Women being portrayed as weak in games; male dominated development world/market/gamer culture
4) Abuse against outspoken feminists within the gaming community - death, rape, violence threats etc for various reasons

1 lead into 2, but it doesn't seem to be any meat on that bone, it was just the ramblings of the ex boyfriend, so while we should be vigilant about any journalistic improprieties, it seems like what was revealed was all just personal; and the boyfriend seems to be a bit of a cunt on top of it, so that doesn't help.
3 is probably true, but I wouldn't say it's a general direction. There are certainly games with women being weak, but it's the same with movies. There's room for that kind of games too - they don't all have to be empowering or vice versa - the market can decide.
4 is obviously not alright and the people participating in this should be neutered asap.

@Asmo

Except my daughter doesn't want to play other games--she wants to play Mario Brothers games. They have excellent game and level design. Why should she have to go elsewhere? Are you trying to say Mario Brothers games not for girls?

All my daughter is asking is to be allowed to play as the Princess--maybe after you free her from Bowser. That doesn't seem like much to ask, as it would have exactly zero effect on gameplay.

Personally, I'd go much farther and say when a game series continuously sends the message that women are helpless victims who need to be defended by men, when they're continuously objectified as trophies to be passed from player to villain and back to player again, then something is very wrong with that game and things need to change. Yeah, other games may be great, but why should that prevent people like Sarkeesian or myself from pointing out the games that aren't? Why should the trend itself not be pointed out when we can find examples of it outside of the Mario series?

No, it's not required that every game have a male/female playable character. It is, however, good business sense not to insult potential female customers of a product by portraying females (playable characters or NPCS) in sexist ways (or homosexual characters in bigoted ways, or ethnic minority characters in racist ways, while we're on the topic). This doesn't seem very difficult to understand and clearly game companies DO understand it because most are making great efforts to be diverse and more realistic in their portrayals of characters. However, just because some are trying doesn't mean we shouldn't point out the bullshit in those that don't. Games like the Mario platformer series, for instance.

You disagree with the way Sarkeesian presents her message... okay. I don't have a problem with that. I think everything you wrote grossly misrepresents what she's saying about games and gamers, but you're entitled to your opinion there.

Moving on... sorry you felt insulted. That was never my intent. But your comments on this issue are written in an extremely emotional manner as if you've somehow been personally wronged. If you don't want people to take it in that manner, you might want to think carefully about the tone your posts on this topic take. I have no idea what that link you provided was supposed to prove, so I'll just leave it alone.

On "Damsel in Distress," it's "your trope" because you've been--throughout this thread--defending it as if it is some bastion of literature that must be preserved. You are quite literally the only person I've ever seen actually try to defend it. And as I said, if it is that dear to you, you can have it. Games will still get made using it.

Other media,though, have long since moved on from it. Take the movie Die Hard as an example. Yeah, the main character's wife gets taken hostage by terrorists and that provides a nice emotional hook to move the plot forward--damsel in distress, right? If it were a game, though, we never would have heard from Holly Gennarro McClane again until Bruce Willis killed all the terrorists. Or maybe a video recording of her would show up after every "boss fight" where she tells John McClane, "Sorry honey, but I'm being kept in another part of the building."

But that's not what happens is it? The character of Holly is central to the plot of the movie and she appears nearly as much as John McClane does. She tries actively to subvert the terrorists by hiding her true identity and by taking responsibility to make sure the hostages are treated well during their captivity.

In other words she's portrayed as a real human being with personal agency throughout the movie.

And that's the point that you seem to be missing. That doesn't happen often in games despite the fact that it does happen in every other form of media (or at least in the examples from media that we generally consider "good"). When we are talking about the "Damsel in Distress" trope in games, THAT is what is being critiqued. Not the fact that someone was kidnapped to provide an emotional hook, but that one particular gender is always targeted and--to add insult to injury--is presented as weak, helpless, and without any agency of their own. They exist for the sole purpose of being rescued.

Thanks for the pro tip, BTW. Had no idea you were a pro at being a patronizing git but I'll take your word for it.

Unfortunately nobody here can really do anything about the fact that the main character of Super Mario Bros. is a man, you'll have to take that up with Nintendo. Making such a change today wouldn't be too difficult I'm sure, but back in 1985 I doubt such things were even on anybody's radar.
Which brings me to my next point, if Miyamoto wasn't even considering player gender as being a big issue then I doubt Mario was born out of a malicious desire to debase women(so no Warioesque mustache twirling then). The damsel in distress story is probably as old as storytelling itself, yes, it's a trope. Stories can enlighten us, make us think, make us feel, and of course entertain us; but we should not allow them to define us. I think that's a crucial difference between my beliefs Sarkeesian's, she wants to use the media to tell us how to think, act and believe, where I think we are perfectly capable of deciding that for ourselves.

man, since Choggie left this site has become a progressive hellhole. Long live the old days. Also, Anita is a con artist, and you people are worse than Fox news.