Gruber is a type of statist identified in a cartoon. Obama too, and pretty much most of the liberal elite. The people are too stupid to rule themselves so the elite must trick or force them into submission. For their own good, of course. Gruber doesn't even care to hide it. If Republicans really wanted to, they could repeal Obamacare. But do they really want to? They would have to wait until next election and get 60 Senators. And maybe elect Rand Paul.

not exactly a secret.
elites by the very definition feel themselves superior to the befuddled herd (actual term used) and therefore feel compelled to "guide" them and "control" them.
this attitude crosses partisan lines.
so on one side you have educated,indoctrinated elites who disdain the masses but use the language of empathy and compassion to manipulate and on the other side of the aisle you have a perverted aynrand/jesus monster to manipulate the masses.

either way....you are being manipulated.

and there aint NO way the republicans are getting rid of obamacare.only the largest bailout gimme to big pharma and the health insurance industry.that would be political suicide.the entire policy was written by the heritage foundation for fucks sake! not exactly a bastion of liberal ideologies.

just as no republican will repeal roe vs wade.
they will use abortion like a battering ram to get their religious base into a frothy frenzy of hate and self-righteousness,but no way would they EVER let go of that boom stick.

this video is stupid and is only being used to create a platform so a certain someone can jump on his soapbox and preach his religion.

fuck that shit.go on a street corner and peddle your wares.this video has zero relevance.

downvote*

I'm not sure if you meant to say Republicans and Democrats do, more or less, the same things but use different language, or what, but I don't see how this video has no relevance. Relevance to what?


Regardless, Obamacare is indeed a "bailout gimme" to big pharma as you say, so it's really beyond me why the liberals continue to support it.

Maybe they're as "stupid" as Gruber was counting on.

*promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Monday, November 10th, 2014 4:57pm PST - promote requested by blankfist.

ooohhh. Politics in teh White House. Cue false shock and horror.
At least they are trying to save lives instead of destroying America.



http://videosift.com/video/All-Republicans-can-do-is-destroy-and-they-have-no-solutions

Just like taxes for wars people don't support. Or subsidies and tax breaks for companies that wield political power and yet have no valid economic rationale for being subsidised. I hate to break it to you, but democratic societies have plenty of things that you pay for that you either don't support or don't use.

It's a fact that this point has apparently not dawned on a lot of people and the guy in the video doesn't put it eloquently, but you can bet at a state level when earmarks for generally wasteful expenses that only benefit a few come up, those few will suddenly become very supportive of the proposals that benefit their few over the many.

You could also take the perspective that since no one knows when they might get sufficiently sick to lose their job and their income, that it's an insurance policy for even the healthy. Even if you don't believe in that, the fact is emergency rooms are obliged to treat immediate health issues for free. Why should the healthy not be obliged to pay for this tacit insurance?

so you agree with me yet still downvote my comment?
i thought i was being respectful by explaining my downvote,something i am under zero compulsion to do,at all.

and yet you go off on a childish tantrum and systematically downvote about 3 hours of content in my pque...in FIVE minutes! which can lead me to only one conclusion:
emotional reflex response to a negative analysis to a useless and irrelevant video you posted.

you do not understand why this is irrelevant?
i have to admit a certain embarrassment for you that i have to point this out,but ok,take my hand and i will walk you through it so you can better understand:

1.air contains oxygen
2.water is wet
3.everybody poops
4.politicians and governments lie

you had an opportunity here to reveal just how convoluted and deceptive the process had been perverted and corrupted.how back door deals and the greased palms of certain politicians helped fascillitate the passing of obamacare.

how big pharma and the health insurance industry spent 300 million in the first week alone to kill this bill.or how those very same politicians allowed a tax on that health care bill to remain in the bill.

you could have added context to what really transpired and the mafia principle was in full effect.government gets their slice and the health industry continues to be allowed to plunder the american people treasure.

but no.
you posted a 53 second video of a politician caught in a moment of truth.
a truth WE ALREADY KNOW,with the sole purpose of "look!see! governments are bad!

no context.
no backstory.
no nuanced information to give people a clearer picture on just how badly we are all being fucked.
just a 53 second prop so you can get on your soapbox.

so yeah..the video is irrelevant.

unless of course...you think everybody around you is a stupid child and needs you to hold their hands to reveal the underlying truth.if that is the case you have failed miserably.

well,i dont need you to hold my hand.i am quite capable of coming to my own conclusions.

i am becoming quite tired of your temper tantrums.so if my words have angered your tender sensibilities then feel free to go on another targeted downvoting spree..i really dont care.

@blankfist is a die hard libertarian.thoughtful and precise in his arguments (sans the farting cats),and you sir..are no blankfist.

@enoch, I've always thought of Trancecoach as being more intelligent than me. Either way, *promote.

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Monday, November 10th, 2014 11:22pm PST - promote requested by blankfist.

I'm glad you're okay that your party elite thinks that you're an idiot.
Who knows? Maybe they're right.

The rest of your comment is, frankly, beneath me.

I'm glad I don't pay for that stuff anymore. Thanks to all the legal ways you can avoid it that have been legislated by "our friends in congress." (Maybe I should attend a Pelosi fundraiser, as a thank you, given that the only thing "our" representatives are good for, is keeping those loopholes and exemptions open... and, y'know, maybe a bit of 'crowd control' to prevent any semblance of a revolution by pitting one party against the other.)

You, of course, are free to do whatever you want with your money.

did i say i was ok with elites perception of those lesser?i do not subscribe to a class system.so please refrain from injecting intentions i never specified. i was simply making a statement that should be obvious to any free-thinking human being.its not like they keep their disdain secret.

i just dont really care what they think of me,as i am quite sure they could care less what i thought of them.

and of course the rest of my comment is beneath you.thats exactly how those "elites" we are speaking of think.
which is basically you have no retort,no response and no argument.

because there is NO response.
you got called out...deal with it.

or do you DENY targeted downvoting my pque without watching the content?
do you DENY not adding any context nor nuance to help people understand your position better?
do you REALLY think this video has merit?
and not just knuckle-dragging "ugh..goverment bad..politicians lie"

and if so,could you please explain,with some clarity,the reasons behind this video? because,as you stated,we agree WHAT obamacare actually is.so?what are your thoughts?

and please make them your thoughts and not some copy/pasted plagiarized argument from the von mises web-page.

have a little self-respect.

> systematically downvote about 3 hours of content in my pque...
> in FIVE minutes!

wow... ban

yeah, isn't abusing the voting system a bannable offense @dag?

hell can we ban him just for the fad he's apparently started of modifying quotes of users he doesn't like in an extremely childish and unconstructive manner. other people are picking up on it to retaliate....and it's just stupid.

and @enoch, I don't think even libertarians would claim @blankfist He's too nuts even for them.

For my two cents...I don't really want to see people banned without giving them a chance to understand the issues with their behavior and fix them. Some people require a hard push to get there. I would rather see a stepped approach, ending in banning if the offensive behavior continues or worsens. I have yet to notice a hobble happen, but many a ban. To me, that seems odd and slightly draconian (although totally understandable when I consider the circumstances of most of those bans).
That said, I have also seen and been a target of abusing the voting system, and the infantile 'quote modification', both of which were out of order IMO. I don't want to see them become the norm here.
Just my feelings on the subject.
Should this become a sift talk?

You really think he doesn't know that mass downvoting of someone's videos as a tantrum is a bad thing? I don't think you give him enough credit.

He knows, but did it anyway.

"Please do not down vote a video because you dislike the Sifter who submitted it; this is entirely unacceptable. Instead, vote solely based on the quality of video content. If down voting or any other member privilege is intentionally misused, the offending member will be temporarily banned for no less than 2 weeks. A second offense will result in a permanent ban."

"Abusing the voting system"

Wow. Disgusting. This is the problem here. Not Trancecoach or the other handful of users you all think are too "right wing" to belong here.

No, it's comments like this, and the environment of intolerance they create.

The elitism derived from this comment alone is so grossly appalling and disgusting. It sounds a helluva lot like censorship, to be honest. You, invoking @dag, to carry out some ideological dirty work for you? It's beneath the integrity of this site. And beneath all of us here.

@enoch, please remain openminded and don't fall victim to these bullies I see on here. You used to be so open to new ideas and appeals to logic. Please don't let them sell you emotion as reason.

Spare me you little crybaby. Censorship my ass. Freedom of Speech doesn't exist on a private website. Besides, isn't Freedom of speech some rule some dirty statist cooked up? Proves you're a hypocrite though. Rails against statism, but attempts to run and hide behind protections established by statism

Never made the claim that Trance was right wing. The suggestion to ban him is over the abuse of the voting system which is why I quoted the guidelines which is irrelevant to his political leanings or lack thereof. It's good to know you've been paying attention so well.

Integrity of this site? That's rich coming from someone who has been previously banned. And your return which I've heard from others was a detriment to this site's integrity.

Don't like guidelines here? Go troll elsewhere. You have no inherent right to be here.

I think some may not understand it's an actionable thing, and I feel it's not completely 'fair' for the first proof that it is to be a permanent ban (although reading the rules it would be a two week ban the first time, permanent the second, that seems proper to me).
In this instance, I think he knows it's bad and infantile and makes him look terrible, but he can't help himself...but I'm just guessing. Motives are irrelevant anyway, only one's actions count.

What a pleasant correspondence. /s

And no one is saying "free speech" is a presiding factor here. In any event, I wasn't talking about "Trance" being right wing, I was bringing up a longer, more insidious, problem on this site. In fact, that point was for people who've been here much longer than you have.

And, yes, trying to get this video flagged is definitely censorship. You just don't like the content of the video. Admit it.

You're just the king of the strawmen and trying to change the subject aren't you?

I never referred to Trance's video. That's not the issue. Once again (since you keep forgetting...deliberately?) the issue is the abuse of the voting system.

I haven't watched the video, nor have I voted on it. Also irrelevant to your censorship argument since even flagged videos are still viewable here. Regardless of how you spin it. There is no censorship and by extension (since you appear to have not understood my argument) freedom of speech on a private website. If the Owner of the site says you're out, you're out. You exist here on the owner's whim. You of all people should understand that.

So quit trying to derail...or gasp..we may have to start questioning your...integrity.

I've said my peace. I guess some people will never be satisfied with reason in any dose, big or small. In any event, this site needs a better class of liberal. The usual suspects on this site these days are pale comparisons of the insightful groups we had not just three or four years ago. What a shame. I miss them. They at least knew what the term "straw man" meant. Ah well.

Yeah, and I remember when you used to be witty and insightful even when I disagreed with you.

Now you're just posting passive-aggressive bullshit. And apparently, you can't even be bothered to proof read it either.

@Trancecoach is being a petty, infantile asshole and @VoodooV is right to call him on it, and yes, he's in flagrant violation of the rules.

ahh standard blankfist...no arguments, just ad homs, distractions, and changing the subject.. also like the lack of quoting so he hopes I don't see the post and respond.

run away troll, run away. Looking forward to the next time...lather rinse repeat.

So are you saying that hospitals (to avoid free riders) should turn away the critically ill until their insurer agrees to cover them or they pay up-front? Or are you saying the ways to avoid paying for ACA be removed?

I think I've mentioned it before but I live in Australia.

i have zero desire to see trance banned,that was never my intent for calling him out.
i simply wanted him to acknowledge his emotional response to a disagreement on a video he posted,
that the disagreement was with the video NOT him..personally.

i know this will only further derail this thread but i think it should be said.

a video is not a representation of the person.
being called out does not automatically translate to dislike of the person being called out.

a few weeks ago i did a little experiment with clickbait titles and @ChaosEngine totally called me on it.which gave me a nice chuckle and chaos was in the right but interestingly enough,the experiment worked.that video got 10 times the views it normally would in the same allotted time.

there was another video i posted where i didnt do my due diligence and it turned out to be a total fraud and @speechless (quite politely) called me out on that video and i was forced to apologize in shame.

does all this translate to chaos and speechless disliking me?
of course not.
i got busted using clickbait methodology and not doing my homework.while a tad embarrassing,being called out taught a lesson and a bit of humility.

point: i was the better for it.

trances targeted downvoting was an emotional response and he was behaving foolishly,but make no mistake..trance is no fool.he just took my analysis and criticism personally and responded emotionally.

no animals were harmed,all the puppies are still cute and kitty videos are more popular than ever.

human beings are sometimes irrational and emotional.trance should not be banned for behaving like a human being.

Human beings are also violent, angry, abusive, infantile, etc.
People certainly SHOULD be banned if they behave like inappropriate human beings. We have rules here with clearly listed 'punishment' for violations. He is clearly violating those rules, he should certainly receive the listed punishment, or we should just remove all the rules and make it a free for all.
Having posted rules with clear punishments that are not applied makes no sense at all, and implies the 'rules' are merely 'suggestions'.

@newtboy
i totally understand my friend and i dont necessarily disagree,but what do you think makes a greater impact?
banning an intelligent person,who may cause some controversy from time to time but is VITAL to human discourse.
OR...
as we are seeing here,a community coming together to admonish that person for breaking the rules?

which is the point i was trying to make.i want trance to acknowledge that what he did was out of an emotional,ego-driven response,but i dont want his voice silenced just because we may disagree from time to time.

and i am willing to bet that trance gets the point.he is no fool and understands full well the implications.the community is telling him:
bad trance..baaaaaad....

shunning is a FAR more powerful tool than clicking a button to silence someone.
just ask the amish.

not everybody fits into this category.there have been some who were deliberate in their offensiveness.those people SHOULD be banned from civil discourse but trance has something to say.we may not always agree but to silence him over an emotional over-reaction is a tad harsh..in my opinion.

and thats all it really is..my opinion.

i also dont think it fair to drag dag into becoming supreme overlord to pass judgement.i dont think he created this site with that in mind.i think he wanted a community driven enterprise that self-regulated without the need for moderators.

which is exactly what we are doing here..yes?

remember siftquistions?
good times my friends..good times.

I think it depends on the person. Some will see the 'admonishment' as a challenge offered by those with no power (remember Chingalera?) and take it as an invitation to become insanely abusive and outrageously vulgar. Others might see it as helpful to understand how their own actions are perceived by others and change the offending behavior.
It would be nice if Trance could admit why he did what he does (to himself at least), but it's far more important that he stop, understanding or not. IF he can't get the message from the community, the rules should be applied. He's had that clear message now, so the next time there should be no warning, just 2 week ban. If there's a next time after that, it's intentional or unconscious, either way that would indicate he won't stop, and at that point removal is the only option. I hope it doesn't come to that.
I don't like that many 'dissenting voices' have either left or been banned, but it's NEVER because of their viewpoint, it's because of their inappropriate actions (perhaps born from the frustration of being a lone dissenter on many topics? but that's a reason, not an excuse).
As for Dag/Lucky, I would hope their intervention is saved as a last resort, but having a Sift-Dad in charge to settle problems we can't settle amongst ourselves is a GOOD thing...if used in moderation.

hmm, according to the Siftory Channel, it's not "Sift-Dad". It's "Siftler". And from what I've read, he preferred Siftquisitions over his now imposed role as Sift-Dictator.

-edited-

We forced it down his throat.

Maybe "we"(yeah, there's more than one of them here) should stop crying when someone's downvoting habits are pointed out.

Heil fucking Siftler.

@Trancecoach @dag @blankfist @enoch @VoodooV @ChaosEngine

Not that I approve of his behavior if it is in fact true that Trancecoach downvoted Enochs videos out of spite (I think that is wrong)...but the same thing happened to me and nobody cared. I don't think the issue is the rules, I think the issue is that Trancecoach isnt popular with some people and they want to get rid of him.

As far as the video is concerned, I think it is amazing..even msnbc played it on Morning Joe. It may serve to turn the public against the ACA even further and may give the republicans more political capital..but ultimately, as Enoch hinted at, the game is being played on a deeper level. Yet, It is not the elites we need to worry about. It's a spiritual war that is going on and everyone is a loser when they play this game:

Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Siftler here, reporting for duty. So ... yeah, if you guys could just - be nice - that'd be great.

Please don't mass-downvote videos because you have a grudge against someone, it's against the rules of the Sift AND it's just not a very nice thing to do.

I reread that Siftquisition thread. I really miss Siftquisitions. Can I be honest and say that I actually enjoyed them a lot? Not that we were admonishing someone - but that we were all coming together and coming to a decision.

such a fascinating read:

http://videosift.com/member/Trancecoach/voteddown

When did that happen to you and did you tell anyone about it?

Maybe it's time to revisit that siftquisiton decision? It was over 5 years ago. Many people weren't even members at the time.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Feel free to launch a poll on reinstating Sifquisitions. I know how I would vote! ;-)

why do we have to call it siftquisitions when we can call it just....moderation like every other freaking site

getting kicked out of here shouldn't be put up to a vote. Bans are not popularity contests I don't understand what's so difficult about this...

someone with authority needs to simply enforce the fucking rules

violation of rules = warn/some form of punishment
continued violation of rules = ban

doesn't get more basic and simple than that. Someone just needs to DO it

this site has become infested with trolls because the word has gone out that its virtually impossible to get punished here. This place is slowly starting to become indistinguishable from YouTube comment threads

self linking, sure we'll ban you for that, but repeatedly troll, say blatantly racist things or blatantly abuse the voting system? yeah sure whatever/turn a blind eye

I don't exactly enjoy invoking dag every time I see what I think is an abusive post.

if only there was a report button like every other site.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

what's the difference? Do you think "report" would send it to somebody else? I'm Siftler damn it.

Discretion? Blankfist went on his melodromatic martyrdom rant because I invoked you.

But hey if you want transparency, that's fine. Your site, your rules. If that's the case, I would argue that this needs to be communicated more clearly that this is the preferred method of reporting bad behavior. speaking for myself. I think I only learned who you were and your role only within the last year or two.

many aspects of this site just aren't very clear and that includes how to report bad behavior.

Oh lawd... I'm sorry to add another unrelated comment to this video, but this is pretentiousness taken to extremes! I think you mean beyond you. Defeat conceded, good argument @enoch.

On the matter of trolls - there really isn't a troll problem here. You tell me a website with the same number of members and traffic of here that is as civil and well presented as this. We don't even have a massive amount of bad language.. As Sir Meatius of Loafendale said in 1754, on the subject of light and optics, "Objects perceived in the rearward looking reflecting devices may appear to have their sizes increased proportional to their actual location." (Chiroptera Ex Infernus) What he was trying to say is if you've been bugged by someone unfairly recently, it's a big problem to you.

Also, although i saw a lot about siftquisitions, i never really understood them, or had them presented to me in the way of "Hey, come help us decide how the sift will be," kind of thing. So i always avoided it and I may even have been young and annoying 5 years ago, and avoided it to keep my cover. But i'd love to be involved in things like that now, i am part of the community but it's more because i like talking to people. Some of the people i know over the years have given me videos to sift so that i'd keep minimum necessary status, and i got my avatar given to me by someone who made me feel very welcome for my comment contributions. I think any chance for the community to help itself is a good thing, it might get noticed if it's presented that way. And as someone else said, we have changed a lot in 5 years, and i don't just mean the sexy UI. Tell me if there's a poll!

Phew thanks for reminding me why I stopped coming here.

*promote

Pelosi came out today and denied knowing Gruber and denied he has anything to do with the ACA, which is all a complete lie. Man, progressives are really showing their hands in their final dissent into political obscurity in America. So.... What did I miss?

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, November 11th, 2014 2:10pm PST - promote requested by blankfist.

There's a bias on here? Poppycock!

Be careful what you believe and say on here. You might be targeted next, and you don't want to be on the wrong side of ideology when the Siftquistion comes.

Yes, why vote when we can have brownshirted mods to carry out justice. Much more efficient. No need for mob rule when we can have an elite few do it. I like this idea. I vote for this. Make VoodooV the site's Goebbels!

Also *quality discussion here, guys. Just kidding. It's terrible.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by blankfist.

@bobknight33, it's not polite to brainfart in public man

*talks

Adding video to channels (Talks) - requested by ant.

Go up 21 comments for your answer.

I'm still waiting for shiny to respond to my question about what exactly happened, and whether he told anyone about it.

Meanwhile, since nothing has actually been done against trance, the accusations of bias are baseless.

Apparently no one cared when someone down voted all shinys videos (assuming that's what happened) and no one still cares when @Trancecoach did it to multiple members.

I note that he has yet to respond to the accusations either, continuing his trend of being a petty infantile coward.

Sorry for the delay. I don't really remember who did it, but at least two or three people made a concerted effort to downvote everything I sifted or had sifted..I have 20 discarded videos. After all of that, and even my comments getting consistently downvoted, I pretty much gave up trying to sift videos or really participate in the community. I mentioned it to a few people but I don't think I ever filed a formal complaint.

I'm not really complaining though. I understand that this site is bent primarily towards secular thought and is intolerant of anything else. It is simply a reality that talking about the Lord Jesus Christ in such an environment brings a lot of flak in my direction. That's okay. You're free to have your opinion and I'm free to have mine, and if anyone wants to hate me for that, that's fine too. I'll love them anyway.

I will note though that I find it amazing this video isn't getting more attention here. I hear a lot here from people who hate the government, yet here is the smoking gun for everything they say is wrong with the government and you actually have 6 downvotes and it may not even get sifted. That is kind of incredible in my opinion and reveals a bias. This guy is someone deeply involved in the political process at the highest levels talking openly about a calculated deception pulled on the American people and some here want to bury it. I would encourage those who do to look past your particular political ideology and give it some unbiased consideration.

when one of your first posts on this site is admitting that you don't give a shit about this community and that you admit that your sole purpose here is to push your Jesus agenda on the site, that tends to not win you too many friends.

Virtually everyone on this site has multiple facets to their personalty, like different things, talk about different subjects, do different things....

....whereas you are completely, utterly, fanatically focused on one...and one subject only. That tends to not win you any friends here.

...when your response to every question is to quote the bible instead of use any rational discourse. That tends to not win you any friends here.

in other words, you dug your own grave. You brought it on yourself. You've made poor decisions

you can spin it into your own persecution fantasy as you have before, but that's between you and your psychiatrist or your invisible sky daddy

But as @ChaosEngine has pointed out, since no punishments or administrative actions have happened. all the whining and persecution fantasies are just that.

It's getting to the point where I can't blame the inmates anymore for taking over the asylum when the warden is asleep at the wheel and refuses to enforce their own rules.

Once again, we see another user blatantly violate the rules....and nothing happens which proves my earlier point.

There have been rumblings for a long while now that the sift is in dire straits and we're seeing the fall of rome here. In this thread alone, we've had yet another user get fed up and abandon the sinking ship.

As for why the video itself isn't getting more attention. There are numerous sifts where the discussion has evolved far beyond the original video and took on a life of it's own. If you were an actual member of this community instead of a Bible Quote Robot, you would know that.

There are lots of things about this site you probably don't know because you've decided to be a One Note Charlie

Sorry, but I'm not really sure that's the same thing.

What trance did was downvote videos on a wide range of subjects purely because of who posted them, and in the case of @enoch, there's proof that he didn't even watch them first.

Your videos are generally on religious topics (creationism in particular) that most people here disagree with, and your comments frequently quote scripture in a fashion that people also disagree with.

For the record, I haven't downvoted any of your videos, so it's not like I'm trying to justify my actions.

I got Trancecoached on a bunch of videos for a few days.
Didn't bother me that much, since I figured what goes around comes around on the Sift.

I'm all for the active yet fair moderators here.
I'm not privy to what this dude might have been up to but my guess it's all the usual republican manipulation and suppression bullshit.

The curation aspect of the SIft is what keeps it from becoming the turd fight that is YouTube.

@VoodooV


Can you do me a favour and interpret for me what this little one is saying ? you seem to speak the language fluently, and I am having a hell of a time with it.

I was clear from the beginning that I came to lend a Christian voice to the sift. I enjoyed videosift and had been using it for some time before I created an account. I registered an account specifically because of the number of anti-christian videos that I was noticing were hitting the top ten. I wanted to engage with the people here over the topic of Christianity because the sift was, and primarily still is, an echo chamber for the worldview of secular humanism. That's the way the sift likes it, and the sift is intolerant of any voice which challenges that viewpoint. Period, end of story.

There's nothing wrong with my coming to represent Christ, here. Have I utterly failed to do so? Yes, most definitely. However, it is up to me how I want to use this site. I have commented here almost exclusively on religious topics, either on my videos or someone elses it. Occasionally I will comment on a political video or something else, but usually only on religious topics. The point being is that, that is the way I have chosen to use this site. I don't run around and dictate to anyone else how they could or should use the sift, so why should I be singled out? I didn't cause any material harm to anyone, I wasn't off topic, I didn't flout the rules. I was on topic on the videos I commented on, and I brought a Christian viewpoint to the discussion. The sift, being inhabited primarily by atheists, agnostics and anti-theists, utterly rejects that viewpoint. It's not any different if I were to go to the comments section of any major website and say anything positive about Christianity. I would instantly get 2 to 3 comments mocking everything I said.

I stated in my post that I realized that bringing a Christian viewpoint to the sift would get me a lot of flak. I didn't always react well to that, and I acted like a jerk at times. I am sorry for that. I could have done more to build relationships here and I never put in the time. There is some truth to what you have said, that I brought the way I was treated on myself. But your rant is also a product of the simplistic and distorted lens that you view me through. I mean, you on one hand call my treatment here a persecution fantasy and on the other hand say I brought it upon myself. That's just intellectual dishonesty, pure and simply. The truth is, there was a concerted campaign to deny my participation on this site, and whatever you think the reason may be, it did happen.

As to the video, if this video was of a senior consultant from the Bush administration admitting that they systemically deceived the American people this would be #1 on the sift. You're deceiving yourself if you think that the reason this video is being suppressed is due to anything other than the ideological bent of the sift.

In a way voodoo is right; it was my fault, and I did a lot of things wrong. Bringing a Christian voice to a secular site is also simply stirring up the hornets nest. Yet, it did happen and it is undeniable. Whether people think it is justified or not, that's up to them. All I know is that my intentions here were from my heart and I didn't mean any harm to anyone.

This is a waste of time I'm sure, because you seem pretty tunnel visioned @shinyblurry, but you're not bringing a Christian voice or viewpoint, you're bringing YOUR Christian voice and viewpoint. It's not necessarily the voice or viewpoint of all Christians. You need to get over yourself and whatever delusion you have that you are Christ's representative here. There are a lot of atheists here. I'm not one of them. I'm also Christian (albeit a terrible one I suppose). There are other religious people on the Sift as well. Yet, somehow, I'm able to cope with reality and science etc and not feel like it's my mission to come in here and tell all the heathens the evil of their ways. Shit, I'm probably more a sinner than all of them. In any event, my point is, this is what you do all the time, every time. Every fucking comment. Give it a rest. This is why you're having a hard time here. For fucks sake, I like a pointless internet argument as much as anyone else but can't you take a little time and have some fun here once in awhile too? Or at least talk about something else.

Hi brother,

I am not claiming to be Christs sole representative; anyone who has the Holy Spirit is representing Jesus Christ wherever they go. Christians are ambassadors of the Kingdom of God. I don't know you, but I'll assume that you do know the Lord. That means that you're also Christs representative here as well. I didn't know you were a Christian; is this the first time you've ever spoken about it here, publicly?

Videosift hates it when I present stuff like this..

Here's a second video of Gruber explaining how they crafted the law in such a way that they could increase the tax on anyone whose health plan is deemed to be "too good," the so-called Cadillac tax. This would discourage people from getting good/robust health care plans that are better than whatever Obamacare is offering. If your employer or union, for example, offers you a good plan, you get taxed, so as to punish you for being "privileged" (unless, of course, you are a federal employee, in which case you can have as good a health care plan as they come, paid in full by The People).

And here's a third video expounding upon the thinking in the original posted above. Same idea, really: the "stupid" and/or "uneducated" American voters were crucial to passing the UnAffordable Care Act known as Obamacare (whose main thrust has always been, steal from the young, give to the old).

This idea that anything in ACA was 'hidden' is insane. Do people really not remember that far back? Do they not recall the GOP saying all these things then? I certainly do, along with tons of other insanity like 'death panels will be killing grandma'.
Also...WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? ACA WAS NOT VOTED ON BY THE CITIZENS, it was voted on by CONGRESS, so 'tricking' or 'fooling' the public about it could have no impact at all on the vote for it, which was totally along party lines and not based on a 'popular vote' as I recall.
Total red herring here. Not a smoking gun. (cue downvotes)

What dumb idiocy thought are you saying.

Never apology to this Anti GOD site. They are lost soles and are laughing all the way to hell. They laugh at GOD. They are like the Pharisees and Sadducees standing at the Jordan river when Jesus got baptized and he ascended to heaven. GOD could be standing right in front of them and they still would not believe.

Never budge an inch for these jackals, especially Voodooh. He is no more a crybaby bully.

GOD is real. There is no debate.

Liberalism is very open minded and tolerant as long as you believe they they think.

Thanks for linking the videos.
It probably wont make any headline news on the mainstream media. Sad to see him call the American people too stupid and openly say he tricked the people via deception and lies all the while Obama and the left are right there cheering him on.

Even worse the left will watch these and be too stupid to be offended .

If you feel strongly enough to capitalize (i.e., "shout"), then I suggest you take up the point with Gruber, himself, who obviously believes otherwise.

You may find it tough to get a dialogue with him, though, since he sems to think that most Americans are uneducated idiots, so why would he lower himself to argue his point with the likes of you?

Alas, you'll just have to settle with trying (in vain) to convince your fellow sifters by shouting.

EDIT: Are you implying that public opinion has no sway over what Congress does?

http://youtu.be/QV7dDSgbaQ0

The capitalization was for YOUR benefit, as you have been unable to comprehend those points I emphasized them for you.
I don't have to convince anyone of anything, the intelligent know what I said is correct, others may snidely deride it (while not contradicting it).
Enjoy your rabble rousing...that's all this is to most people.
No one with an IQ over 70 is surprised that someone could be found who worked on a huge piece of legislation with thousands of others who has a poor opinion of voters/congress.
-cue downvote

Yes, the Retardicans were spouting so many lies about it that this turned out to be true, you had no chance of telling what was actually IN the bill (without reading it) until those liars were 'silenced' by it passing...but it didn't happen that way...they never stopped the lies, just started shouting new ones louder.
That had NOTHING to do with it passing, it was about public opinion, which had been swayed by lies, mostly republican lies.

EDIT: I have a solution to this that satisfies everyone...the Republicans just need to pass Single Payer health care to replace ACA, then they can get rid of "Obamacare", save face, AND do the right thing at the same time. Won't happen, but it could solve all the political BS and get us a health care system that works for all.

-cue downvote

Wow. That is just scary doublespeak. It's like you can look up and see the sky is blue, and everyone can tell you the sky is blue, but you'll argue that's a ruse by the GOP and actually the sky is yellow because the "Retardicans" kept lying that it was blue so it must be yellow. It's just scary and sad.

First, nice no quote in hopes I won't reply...
Second, no, it's not double speak at all. The video you linked showed Pelosi saying because of all the lies and misrepresentation, the only way the public will know what's actually in the bill is to see it pass so they can read it. The expectation was that the lies and misrepresentation would stop once it passed, as it would be a done deal....sadly that's not what happened.
It's like I can look up in the sky and see it's blue, even though the Retardicans have said it's yellow, red, green, purple, orange, and/or mauve and the Dumbocrats have told me it's somewhere on the spectrum between green and ultra violet.
Your angry self righteous anti-Obama position is sad.
(cue ignored user's downvote)

Like I said, you'll just have to settle for trying (in vain) to convince your fellow sifters by shouting.

Attempting to comprehend, let alone respond to, your ramblings is the epitome of exercises in futility. And when someone points this out to you that your rants make no sense, you'll say that it's because that person cannot read.

It's as though an illiterate person tries to argue, in writing, with a Harvard professor about whether the professor knows how to read. It's absurd.

And what's most absurd, of course, is that the professor spends any time debating at all!

<redacted>
I just need to stop feeding the beast. My bad.
How about a nice game of chess?

.

Hey people, I had figured some of you might be interested in how your pitch fork's are made. It is interesting to know how your tools are made. *Now stick'em up your ass. *

@newtboy, this is kind of what it feels like reasoning with you: http://youtu.be/Fs3KKO_1ShI

@Trancecoach

I don't comment much at all for years, but I did just want to say that people complaining about politicians acting like elitists apparently don't recognize some very key facts about voters:

Most people want the government to spend more (take your pick whether it's favoring increased spending on social programs, or it's more spending on defense, etc.), yet want to be taxed less. Just that fact alone proves how stupid the general electorate is. An alarming portion of voters can't tell you accurately the difference between a Republican and a Democrat, don't understand how market forces are supposed to work, or even be able to recognize what is and isn't a socialist idea at its core.

I don't mean this as an attack on Democratic voting blocs specifically, nor Republican voting blocs. I mean this as an attack against the intellectual ability of most American voters. And when the voting public is that ignorant, ideologically blind, or just plain stupid, what do you think some people are going to do, regardless of their party's affiliation? They're gonna try to take advantage of it.

And doing things to hide key aspects of legislation in order to get support is hardly new, and hardly unique to either side. Explain to me how doing those things is any different than making ridiculous claims about Obamacare that have no bearing on reality different?

Remember those? They're gonna kill grandma! DEATH PANELS!

"Obamacare is a complete socialist takeover of the healthcare system!" That one just proves my point. The conservative right spent decades programming the American voting population to equate socialism as bad, when so many people don't even know what socialism actually is, and they did this despite numerous examples of when largely socialist policies have been resounding successes. Then they make a completely false claim that Obamacare is a complete socialist take over of the US health care system, when it isn't to fire up their voting blocs to oppose it, along with anyone else who is too stupid to know what "complete socialism" would actually look like in the health care system (hint: single payer), and who are stupid or ideologically blind enough to recognize successful largely socialist policies (like institutionalizing compulsory public education as a DUH example).

Where the hell was your outrage then? You think those (we'll call them) criticisms were coming out of voters spontaneously? No, they were thrown into the ring by GOP and conservative leaders as tools to manipulate public opinion into opposing Obamacare when they were flaming piles of bullcrap.

So either you're one of the idiots, or you're one of many partisans trying to spread your BS incredulity at the other side.

And to be clear, I'm not attacking you because you're a conservative. I'm attacking you because this is either hypocrisy or ideological blindness at its worst.

Hey Newtboy,

God provided four major lines of evidence so that you would know that He exists. The first is Creation itself:

Rom 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

His existence is so evident from the Creation that He considers that people are without excuse for their unbelief.

A quick science fact for you:

The Moon is 400 times smaller than the Sun, and the Sun is 400 times farther away from the Moon. This is the reason they appear to be the same size in the sky. The Moon is also receding from the Earth at a few centimeters at year. This would mean it is only a “coincidence” that we happen to live at a time that the Sun and Moon have an exact correspondence in the sky, making solar eclipses possible. Yet, the scripture says God created the Sun and the Moon for signs and seasons, for days and years. The amount of “coincidences” really adds up to an absurdity when you study the conditions necessary for us to be here. You can find a good study on that here:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Privileged-Planet-John-Rhys-Davies/dp/B0002E34C0

The other lines of evidence are your conscience, the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and bible prophecy. I understand, perhaps, where you’re coming from. It very much has to do with what your worldview is. If you start apriori with the idea that there is no supernatural and no divine being, you won’t recognize the evidence right in front of your face. You will instead embrace alternative explanations for the origins of life which appear to be pragmatic but start with a greater amount of faith required than a belief in an all powerful Creator God.

Hi Bob,
I am not apologizing for speaking about the Lord, I am apologizing for my bad behavior. Whatever the denizens of the sift may be like, God didn’t tell us to condemn them. He told us to love them and pray for them. I don’t know about you but I need the Lords help every day. The scripture says that even while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. For us and for them. Before I was saved, I had many of the same thoughts and feelings as the people here do. Maybe you can’t relate but God is able to reach the most hardened among us, even those you vehemently disagree with. He reached me, and He can reach them. If you’re concerned about their eternal destiny then show them the love of Christ because that is something that reaches people. Love is the universal language and everyone can recognize when they’re being loved sincerely.

Damnit bob is right. I had a really nice pair of Chuck Taylor's but the soles fell off.

Oh Shiny....SOOO much and so large a failure of fact here....
A quick science fact for YOU....(cut and pasted from Google)

How many of earth's moon would fit inside the sun if it were hollow?

Well, the radius of the moon is about 1,080 miles, and the radius of the Sun is about 432,687 miles. The moon and the sun are both spheres, and math tells us how to relate the volume inside a sphere to its radius. I don't know how much math you have done, so let me just tell you the answer and you can maybe ask your teacher for more information. The answer is that you could get about 64.3 million moons inside the Sun if it were hollow.
Do I need to say the rest of your grasp of the science involved is not firm?

I must also tell you, being able to say "we don't know exactly" about what happened BEFORE the big bang is no where near 'faith'...'faith' is making up some BS and claiming 'See, my fairy tale tells me that giant bean stalks are real, you're just deluding yourself that they're all tiny. Just because you (along with everyone else) has never SEEN a giant one means nothing, my book said they're real, so they're real'. Science says 'we've never seen a giant bean stalk, ever, and genetics and physics tell us they never can exist'. The 'faithful' then say 'science is wrong and delusional and ignores all our evidence of giant bean stalks...namely the stories in our book, and look, I found this large bean, it's proof that there are GIANT beans out there.'. If you don't 'believe' the book is 'true', it's useless as 'proof'. Just consider all the other 'holy' books you discount...that's how I see ALL holy books. I only took it one step farther than you, though, before you think differently.

@newtboy @shinyblurry
are you guys going to make out?
because if you are,let me grab my camera!

do not confuse faith with religion,they are not synonymous,though they can be in the context of someone who bases their faith on scripture.which is where shiny is coming from.

i will admit to a certain joy in seeing the progression of shiny from years ago where all he would do is copy/paste scripture with little understanding,but as somehow being a rebuttal argument.

now when he posts scripture it is always accompanied with HIS understanding of that very scripture.i am not saying he is right,i am just admiring his continued progress in his seeking to understand and formulating his arguments from HIS understandings,not just words.

so..bravo to you shiny.

but here is a hint:no way scripture is going to convince newt of..well..anything.

so,i got the camera.lets get to that making out!

*side note* has anybody ever seen a thread so derailed?
i think this one takes the gold.

Once again, I need to see that notarized release from my wife before I make out with anyone! ;-)
Progress is good, but needs to continue.
Yes, scripture is political propaganda, not fact. It will NEVER convince me of anything other than of a person's faith in stories that have been proven to be fables at BEST. (If they were read that way by more people, as fables, there would be less trouble with 'religion' and it's followers IMO).
EDIT: I only wish 'Christians' could see that non-Christians give the bible as much credence as we give dianetic's-the Scientologist bible, and stop trying to use it to convince those who don't believe in it.

Now that I've hijacked another thread, I'm taking this one to New Zealand....I fear it's the only way I'll ever get to go there again.

Well, the radius of the moon is about 1,080 miles, and the radius of the Sun is about 432,687 miles.
Do I need to say the rest of your grasp of the science involved is not firm?

Newtboy, please pull out a calculator and punch in 1080 x 400..the answer is 432000.

http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-earth/moon-general.html

"The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size. And when its orbit around Earth takes the Moon directly between Earth and the Sun, the Moon blocks our view of the Sun in what we call a solar eclipse. This is just the same as when you use your thumb to block your view of something that is both much larger and much farther away."

See, my fairy tale tells me that giant bean stalks are real

I think you have a misunderstanding of what faith is. I have faith that the Sun will rise tomorrow because the evidence shows that it is more likely to happen than not. No one could prove that it would, but my faith is justified based on the evidence. In the same way, I have faith that Christianity is true based on the evidence of the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe the evidence is extraordinary and sufficient to place my faith in, and that the contrary case is insufficient. Have you ever studied the evidence for the resurrection? If you haven't then you have rejected it based on your preconceived notions and biases rather than because you believe the evidence is insufficient. There are plenty of things we take on faith and believe and are perfectly rational for doing so. Here is a highlight that talks about 5 different things we all take on faith:

Hey Enoch,

No I am getting married soon and I don't think my fiance would appreciate that. As far as posting scripture is concerned, faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. You may believe that they are merely words in a book, but the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. I understand where you're coming from Enoch. Sometimes I feel like you are trying to pat me on the head, but it's not that I don't understand your gnostic beliefs. It is that I did understand it, fully embraced them, and rejected it all on the basis of divine revelation. I had gnostic beliefs, mixed with hindu, buddhist and new age ideas, among other things, before I became a Christian. I rejected those beliefs and embraced the word of God as the truth because the Lord directly revealed Himself to me as the Messiah. It wasn't that I read the bible and thought it sounded reasonable, it is because I had direct revelation it is the absolute truth. That's why I am a Christian.

I don't know if you hold the belief that the body is the problem as some gnostics do, but it is sin which is the problem. That is why mankind is separated from God and that is why we need a Savior. Jesus made the way for us to be reborn and be reconciled to God; not as the gnostics teach, that He brought secret knowledge, but that He paid the penalty for sin in our place.

Radius is not size.
<retracted>
Stories are not evidence.
The man in the video doesn't understand 'science' at all.
Enough said.

Moving this video to Trancecoach's personal queue. It failed to receive enough votes to get sifted up to the front page within 2 days.

@shinyblurry
hey man,congrats on the married dealio.
please understand i was not suggesting to convert you to my way of thinking.i was simply expressing the joys of watching someone progress on their path.i am quite sure your conclusions will differ from mine but i can admire your progress even though we differ yes?

in my way of thinking,we may diverge at points but in the end we shall meet at the same place.

still...your progress makes me smile,though we disagree.

getting married...
they grow up so fast..
/sniff sniff

You can argue with Nasa if you like:

http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-earth/moon-general.html

"The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size. And when its orbit around Earth takes the Moon directly between Earth and the Sun, the Moon blocks our view of the Sun in what we call a solar eclipse. This is just the same as when you use your thumb to block your view of something that is both much larger and much farther away."

The approximation means that the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size in the sky, making eclipses possible. The fact that the Moon is receding every year means that our existence at this time when they are approximate would have to be a big coincidence. That is the point I was making..

No need to argue, their info on that page is clearly wrong. The math is simple.
It's perplexing that what appears to be a NASA page is so wrong about such a simple equation and data, but that's the fact.
EDIT:Oh, I see, this is a NASA "partner" page, not a NASA page. Still, there's absolutely no excuse for the incredibly poor math skills or confusion of 'width' with 'size' that they exhibit.

here is another NASA page:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/30may_solareclipse/

I guess all these people are wrong too:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/life-unbounded/2012/05/18/the-solar-eclipse-coincidence/

http://www.space.com/15584-solar-eclipses.html

http://space-facts.com/solar-eclipse/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse

http://www.astronomy.com/news-observing/ask%20astro/2000/10/why%20is%20the%20moon%20exactly%20the%20same%20apparent%20size%20from%20earth%20as%20the%2
0sun%20surely%20this%20cannot%20be%20just%20coincidence%20the%20odds%20against%20such%20a%20perfect%20match%20are%20enormous

It is simple math and I am not sure why you are having trouble with it. The Sun is 149,600,000 kilometers away. Divide that by 400 and you get 374000 kilometers, which is about the distance of the Moon from the Earth. I notice you're doing quite a bit of gymnastics to avoid the point.

Yes...you are correct....I either did my distance-math backwards, or missed a button entering the distance to the moon into my calculator...it's been a really bad week for my back and lots of meds have been needed, which impairs my math skills. My mistake there...and I've retracted that....and I apologize.
Doing the math correctly, I see you ARE right that it's about 400 times the distance.
But they (and so you) are wrong that it's 400 times the "size". You are right that the radiuses/diameters are a ratio of 400-1. That's different from size, even 2d size.
It may seem semantical, but to me it's an important distinction. This is what I took issue with mostly, since I was CERTAIN the actual "size" (in 3D) is no where near a ratio of 400-1, but closer to 64 million -1. Even in 2D it's nothing like 400-1.

Also, I'm not intentionally ignoring your point, it is an interesting fact that the ratios are close, but only coincidental IMO, certainly not 'proof' of anything supernatural.
EDIT: even if they were a perfect ratio, it would only suggest a physical law of motion we don't know or fully understand yet.
I would be interested to see a list of other planets and their moons to see if any other planet/moon (or combination of moons) in our solar system shows the same ratios. Neither answer would make me think anything supernatural however, it's just not that kind of question in my eyes.

Right... thats pretty much how all brainwashing works.

Obama seeks to paint Gruber as a marginal player in crafting Obamacare. That explains why he was only paid $392,600 to consult.

Will the house of cards come crashing down? Stay tuned...

Apparently there's yet another Gruber video. (There could be a Gruber Film Festival!)

("OMG!") Fox gets flack for, you know, exposing Democrats like Pelosi, but it's she who now claims that she doesn't know who Gruber is, despite invoking him many times in the campaigning for the bill's passage.

At least Gruber tells the truth about ACA just being another tax on "the people."

“So basically it's the same thing,” he said. “We just tax the insurance companies, they pass on higher prices that offsets the tax break we get, it ends up being the same thing. It's a very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter.”

That's the truth also about, "tax the rich," or "tax corporations." Corporations will just pass on the cost to "consumers." Tax anyone always means tax "the people." But the masses of "the American voter," like voters anywhere it seems, or at least the "progressive ones," for whatever reason don't understand that. There is no "free" government service. No "free" education. No "free" housing. Someone will pay for it and more likely than not those at the bottom will pay for it.

EDIT:
There's at least 7 Gruber videos now.

"It’s one thing for Americans to suspect that their President lies to them. It’s quite another to hear a key Obama adviser boast of it." (Videosift pundits disagree, of course.)

From the Washington Post :

"Obama also insisted repeatedly that the individual mandate “is absolutely not a tax increase.” In a 2009 interview with ABC News, George Stephanopoulos pressed him on it no less than five times. He even read Obama the definition of “tax” from Webster’s dictionary. Obama was adamant: “My critics say everything is a tax increase. . . . I absolutely reject that notion.”

"Then, after Obamacare passed, his administration cynically turned around and argued before the Supreme Court that it was in fact a tax. At one point, Justice Samuel Alito asked Obama’s solicitor general, Donald Verrilli, “why do you keep saying tax?,” drawing peals of laughter."

"The reason he called it a tax is because — as Jonathan Gruber now admits — members of the Obama team knew all along that it was a tax. They intentionally deceived Americans about it because if they had called it a tax, Obamacare would never have become law."

* * *

All of these videos, of course, make little difference to the partisan Democrats, not unlike partisan Republicans when they get exposed. But they do make a difference with the "independents" who decide elections: the ones who can vote one way or the other. So the Democrats can expect for this to continue until the next election.

Good things to know: The "anti- commandeering doctrine."
Know the laws of the land.

it's been a really bad week for my back and lots of meds have been needed, which impairs my math skills. My mistake there...and I've retracted that....and I apologize.

It's no problem. It's completely understandable for what you're going through over there. I'll say a prayer for you and your family. Hopefully some pain free days are coming your way soon.

Doing the math correctly, I see you ARE right that it's about 400 times the distance.
But they (and so you) are wrong that it's 400 times the "size". You are right that the radiuses/diameters are a ratio of 400-1. That's different from size, even 2d size.
It may seem semantical, but to me it's an important distinction. This is what I took issue with mostly, since I was CERTAIN the actual "size" (in 3D) is no where near a ratio of 400-1, but closer to 64 million -1. Even in 2D it's nothing like 400-1.

Point taken..you were just trying to be accurate in the way the terms were defined.

Also, I'm not intentionally ignoring your point, it is an interesting fact that the ratios are close, but only coincidental IMO, certainly not 'proof' of anything supernatural.
EDIT: even if they were a perfect ratio, it would only suggest a physical law of motion we don't know or fully understand yet.
I would be interested to see a list of other planets and their moons to see if any other planet/moon (or combination of moons) in our solar system shows the same ratios. Neither answer would make me think anything supernatural however, it's just not that kind of question in my eyes.

Taken by itself, it is an extraordinary coincidence if you deem it as such. Yet, when you pile on the many other factors that have to line up for us to have life here, I find coincidence isn't the appropiate word. Now, some say that because it is such a huge Universe, there are bound to be planets like these (which isn't proven, btw)..and we shouldn't be surprised to find ourselves on one of them because we would expect to find conditions which allow for our existence, given that we exist. I don't think that is a persausive argument.

There is a good analogy about this that I borrowed from the net:

"Suppose you are to be executed by a firing squad of 100 trained marksmen, all of them aiming rifles at your heart. You are blindfolded; the command is given; you hear the deafening roar of the rifles. And you observe that you are still alive. The 100 marksmen missed!"

Taking off the blindfold, you do not observe that you are dead. No surprise there: you could not observe that you are dead. Nonetheless, you should be astonished to observe that you are alive. The entire firing squad missed you altogether! Surprise at that extremely improbable fact is wholly justified - and that calls for an explanation. You would immediately suspect that they missed you on purpose, by design."

It is so easy to tell the people who watch right wing news...You all say the exact same talking points...you repeat the same buzz words. You all get your propoganda from the same sources.

I like how some folks here think Obamacare was a big bailout for big pharma (like they need it).

All that shit is strictly temporary. The insurance firms and big pharma signed on because they might as well get their money now, instead of no money later, because the stated goal of Obama and leftists everywhere is single payer, and that means big government.

The gov't looks to destroy insurance companies, because they get a big profit and the gov't doesn't.

^
Hand out, not bail out.
Wow, that's some completely wrong, paranoid right wing insanity after your first mistaken sentence. All of it, every word.

Obama said the endgame is single payer. You didn't know that?

Also, thanks for psychoanalyzing me free of charge...or is that simple name-calling. I think I'll bet on the latter.

What I recall was him saying single payer was what he preferred, but he totally caved in and we got the ACA (like most programs, misnamed) which is an insurance industry hand out IMO.
Since it's not 'evolving', there is no 'end game' as I understand the term. It is what it is, flawed but better than the nothing we had, but far worse than single payer... like most of the rest of the first world has.
I wish we had, or were moving towards single payer, it's FAR cheaper, simpler, and eliminates the needless health insurance industry. The rich can always buy better care if they like, but everyone will have basic minimum care and not use the most expensive ways to get it (like emergency rooms they don't pay for). Seems proper and intelligent to me, but what does a newt know?

I'm only analyzing your statement(s), not you.

So I read the first three comments, and I was like... cool! I'm gonna read this thread! Enoch is going off on some guy who apprently agrees with him! After 10 minutes of reading, I looked at my scroll bar: HOLYMOTHEROFGOD.

Obamacare is to health care what net neutrality is to fairness.

Essential?

If you want to get upvoted around here you need a video of cops beating up a nun or something to do with animal farts.

Don't let the phrase 'quality video' confuse you because quality has nothing to do with what gets votes here. If you have a video that fits their leftist or anarchist agenda, bring it on.

lol

The gubment here to help you!!!

Yes. So?

I know this is quite literally a foreign concept to you, but in other parts of the world, governments can and do help immensely.

In the past few years, my government has helped fix my house after an earthquake and practically rebuilt my thumb after an accident. Was it perfect? No, it's a human creation and therefore flawed. Was it better than relying on the private sector? By an order of magnitude.

I don't the current government of NZ. I didn't vote for them and I strongly disagree with many of their policies.

But I can divorce my opinion of the ruling party from my opinion of the institution as a concept.

Maybe try not acting like a spoilt teenager?

I think gov'ts are quite essential. My problem is with bureaucracies...the first priority of which is to grow and grow and grow and grow, which means debt and debt and debt and debt.

But if you think large, unwieldy debt-ridden monstrosities are good for anyone....well, everyone has an opinion.

Net neutrality is not bureaucracy, any more than "not allowing organised crime to extort people" is.

Obamacare obviously has some significant overhead to it, but as the system beds in, people will streamline it and make it more efficient.

The majority of the world has found that some bureaucracy is a reasonable price to pay for the benefits of socialised medicine. It's never perfect. The question is whether you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

No-one is arguing for "large, unwieldy debt-ridden monstrosities", if that is happening, then measures should be put in place to deal with that. But in a country of 320 million people, some bureaucracy is inevitable.

Net neutrality is not bureacracy?

It is now, at least in the US. The gov't just decided to regulate it, which means we'll soon have a Dept. of the Internet.

I understand that some bureaucracy is inevitable. Again, bureaucracies are made to grow and grow and grow, which is what we now see in the US. It's large centralized power, which was not the intent of the founders.

Also, I don't see much benefit from socialized medicine. It only feeds the debt, which will be unsustainable. This is a concern since Obama has added at least $8 trillion to the debt in his 6 yr reign.

But I know with socialists...debt is just something invisible, or we'll let our great-grandchildren deal with the collapse.