Um, did someone forget to tell these people that they were tripping? How can you have a significant spiritual experience while tripping? If you see a burning bush that is talking to you, but you are tripping, guess what, it isn't real because you are tripping!

You can of course have a significant experience that could impact the rest of your life, but please remember that they are the result of the drug. To pretend that the hallucinations where of spiritual origins is to delude yourself.

>> ^Flood:
Um, did someone forget to tell these people that they were tripping? How can you have a significant spiritual experience while tripping? If you see a burning bush that is talking to you, but you are tripping, guess what, it isn't real because you are tripping!
You can of course have a significant experience that could impact the rest of your life, but please remember that they are the result of the drug. To pretend that the hallucinations where of spiritual origins is to delude yourself.


Give me a break, everything about 'spiritual experience' is up for debate, nothing is concrete and for you to judge what is and isn't relevant/legitimiate to another human being is arrogant and ignorant. FYI sight of a burning bush would fall under the category of RELIGIOUS experience, and a very specific one indeed. Check your head AND your spelling.

It's good that this data is finally getting out there.

YES!!
Just what the US needs, more illogical thinkers.

lol, your religion is a sham caused by your brain.

The Government made hallucinogens illegal because had everyone, or most people been taking them, it would be much, much harder for the Government to pull the wool over our eyes like they have been doing all these years. I had taken shrooms quite a few times as a younger adult and had been "enlightened" to many things during each of my trips. Can't say that they were spiritual. But I definitely saw things in a much clearer perspective. Believe it or not.

As her disclaimer at the end says. You MUST be sure you are in the right state of mind, with the right group of people before taking them or you WILL have a bad trip. And no, I have never had even one single "flashback" from shrooms or acid.

Oh and Flood, if I remember correctly, the Native Americans used hallucinogens to converse with their gods and go on "spirit walks". I agree with rosekat, the subject is up for debate.

Drug experiences and religious experiences are the same in brain scans. Feeling "one with the universe," as this woman described, is attributed largely to the neural circuits that develop in infancy that allow us to distinguish between our body and the world being turned off. Still a beautiful experience.

(For more info, look up neurotheology.)

Man that report was a smarmy selfcensor. Liked that guy at the end though.

your view of everything is constructed by your brain, influenced by chemicals.

to say that one construction is "illogical" and the other is "logical" really makes me laugh. the "logical" and "individualistic" view caused by an absence of mushrooms and cannabis in your diet could be the source of the world's problems.

but go ahead with your "logic".

I'm quite glad to see stuff like this on the sift (and a bit impressed that CNN would do a story on this, albeit that the Hopkins study was published way back in 2005. Way to be current!).

Incidentally, it's due to experiences like the ones described here -- and other, similar non-drug induced experiences -- that had initially got me interested in the field of transpersonal psychology. I am close to completing my Ph.D. in this discipline and also work for the professional Association.

Folks who are interested in studies like these, may also want to visit the good people over at MAPS.

Hmm, lets think about this rationally, you give hallucinogenic drugs to people with a background in superstitious mumbo-jumbo of course they're going to have an experience based on that background. It's the reason the peyote using native americans had visions of spirit guides and their ancestors. That's why some people who have had bad trips have visions of hell, demons, murderous loved ones, etc.. The drugs enhance the good feelings, but can also drastically worsen the bad ones.

I fear that if anyone were to give these types of drugs to terminally ill, severely depressed people, the experiences would be far less beneficial and a lot more terrifying for them.

Looks like a few too many people here are on hallucinogenic drugs. I'm with Flood.

Shrooms aren't theraputic.

years ago my sister had a party here, and two of her friends took shrooms.
I still remember them freaking out so hard one of them actually wanted to go see my mom to make it better, but the other slapped her in the face and said that "We've gone too far now!"

"Where do I sign up?"

love it.

>> ^Flood:
Um, did someone forget to tell these people that they were tripping? How can you have a significant spiritual experience while tripping? If you see a burning bush that is talking to you, but you are tripping, guess what, it isn't real because you are tripping!
You can of course have a significant experience that could impact the rest of your life, but please remember that they are the result of the drug. To pretend that the hallucinations where of spiritual origins is to delude yourself.


Simply because their 'spiritual experience' was drug induced does not mean it was any less significant. To not understand that is to not understand how drugs like these work.

Especially when you consider then going back through history such substances were used to induce such a spiritual experience. In pre-civilized times, and in some parts of the world to this day, the healers and mystics of villages used such substances to 'awaken their minds' and enter a spiritual journey in an attempt to heal the sick of both body and mind. Shamans and healers of this type have existed for thousands of years, so they must be doing something right, even if it's only inducing a sense of better health and healing that lasts a time.

Those in the study simply had a spiritual experience and a positive change of mind for more then a year, whether it was drug induced or produced simply from the chemicals in our brain doesn't really matter. It's all the same chemically. I should know, I have had both. Though non-visual 'spiritual experiences' are significantly more profound in personal experience and haven't just changed my views for a year but for going on two decades now.

Oh and this CNN piece is old, I remember seeing it early last year. Nice to see it on the Sift though.

>> ^Shepppard:
Shrooms aren't theraputic.
years ago my sister had a party here, and two of her friends took shrooms.
I still remember them freaking out so hard one of them actually wanted to go see my mom to make it better, but the other slapped her in the face and said that "We've gone too far now!"


It is true that mileage varies from person to person. Not to mention other mitigating factors like who you take them with, the environment taken in, mental health/your state of mind when ingesting, etc. Much care should be exercised in planning and preparation, before eating mushrooms all willy-nilly like. Some people will experience adverse effects regardless, though, just like anything else.

For me, it was one of the best and most memorable experiences I've ever had with other human beings.

Edit: Just read Duckman's post, sorry for the overlap.

>> ^AnimalsForCrackers:
>> ^Shepppard:
Shrooms aren't theraputic.
years ago my sister had a party here, and two of her friends took shrooms.
I still remember them freaking out so hard one of them actually wanted to go see my mom to make it better, but the other slapped her in the face and said that "We've gone too far now!"

It is true that mileage varies from person to person. Not to mention other mitigating factors like who you take them with, the environment taken in, your state of mind when ingesting, etc. Much care should be exercised in planning and preparation, before eating mushrooms all willy-nilly like.
For me, it was one of the best and most memorable experiences I've ever had with other human beings.


I agree completely. And it's not like the medical industry is just going to start giving prescriptions to mushrooms. If anything they'll make yet another pill form containing the specific chemicals, likely significantly 'watered down.' The drug industry is full of narcotic and hallucinogenic 'medicines.'

I personally have had my share of very positive experiences with a wide variety of hallucinogenic drugs both natural and man-made and I've found the 'magic mushrooms' are by far the least likely to produce a so called 'bad trip.' Especially compared to the likes of LSD. The experience mushrooms and other natural hallucinogenics such as Peyote, are a much milder, smoother and less grating effect, though often far more potent.

Years ago, my Uncle had a great 'long-lasting positive effect' from using shrooms. Went paranoid, refused help and bricked himself into a building, so nobody could get to him... Thankfully, they did though, but still.. great positive experience isn't it?

He now keeps himself to himself, and doesn't go out really.

>> ^dbalsdon:
Years ago, my Uncle had a great 'long-lasting positive effect' from using shrooms. Went paranoid, refused help and bricked himself into a building, so nobody could get to him... Thankfully, they did though, but still.. great positive experience isn't it?
He now keeps himself to himself, and doesn't go out really.



Uggh.

So, your uncle's "bad trip" against millions of people through thousands of years history having amazing experiences.

Not very scientific.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'CNN, Magic, Mushroomes, long, lasting, positive, effects, news' to 'CNN, Magic, Mushrooms, long, lasting, positive, effects, news' - edited by xxovercastxx

my mate doesn't like shrooms so this study is bollocks!

urghhh... way to miss the point. maybe if you got your information from somewhere other than CNN it would make more sense.

I like how Trancecoach is doing a PhD and still "my mate's personal experience" is more important. Classic Web 2.0 "logic".

This would be interesting to give to the people at Guantanamo Bay and to others in the same situation. VOLUNTARILY, of course. If you could use this to build a lasting superficial bond within a group, you could probably use it to create the opposite effect in new terror recruits. There are lots of interesting possibilities there.

A warm summer sunset on the beach is a staggeringly awesome setting for shrooms. The feel of the sun, sand and warm breeze on your skin, the sound of the waves and the gulls, the smell of the ocean, the giant golden setting sun glittering on the crests of the waves, omg it's the closest thing to a state of perfect being you'll ever experience.

Yosemite (or just about any National Park) is another Excellent place to do shrooms.

>> ^Mi1ler:
lol, your religion is a sham caused by your brain.



this guy summed it up.

Mushrooms do something to your head, sure... but looking at a sunset or a waterfall or the stars or praying or reading a good book can all be powerful "spiritual experiences" with lasting positive effects on your behavior and the way you see your world.

The Recuperation of the Sensuous is the Rediscovery of the Earth

". . . As we reacquaint ourselves with our breathing bodies, then the perceived world itself begins to shift and transform. When we begin to consciously frequent the wordless dimension of our sensory participations, certain phenomena that have habitually commanded our focus begin to lose their distinctive fascination and to slip toward the background, while hitherto unnoticed or overlooked presences begin to stand forth from the periphery and to engage our awareness. The countless human artifacts with which we are commonly involved--the asphalt roads, chain-link fences, telephone wires, buildings, lightbulbs, ballpoint pens, automobiles, street signs, plastic containers, newspapers, radios, television screens--all begin to exhibit a common style, and so to lose some of their distinctiveness; meanwhile, organic entities--crows, squirrels, the trees and wild weeds that surround our house, humming insects, streambeds, clouds and rainfall--all these begin to display a new vitality, each coaxing the breathing body into a unique dance. Even boulders and rocks seem to speak their own uncanny languages of gesture and shadow, inviting the body and its bones into silent communication. In contact with the native forms of the earth, one's senses are slowly energized and awakened, combining and recombining in ever-shifting patterns. . ." (Abram, p. 63, 1997).

The beauty of nature doesn't exist because i've never understood it ergo i am a scientist.

There, summed up the thread for you retards.

>> ^Memorare:
A warm summer sunset on the beach is a staggeringly awesome setting for shrooms. The feel of the sun, sand and warm breeze on your skin, the sound of the waves and the gulls, the smell of the ocean, the giant golden setting sun glittering on the crests of the waves, omg it's the closest thing to a state of perfect being you'll ever experience.
Yosemite (or just about any National Park) is another Excellent place to do shrooms.


I agree 150% Having lived in Oregon for all of my trips (still live here). Nature was heartily available and ALWAYS made the experience an awesome one.

The only time I experienced a "bad trip" was when I was with a group of people I hardly knew, didn't have a place to live at the time (was living with my "girl friend" and was depressed about my living situation and lack of employment). It made for a really bad experience. This was on acid by the way, not shrooms.

Sex on shrooms is one of the greatest experiences I have ever had.

>> ^Flood:
Um, did someone forget to tell these people that they were tripping? How can you have a significant spiritual experience while tripping? If you see a burning bush that is talking to you, but you are tripping, guess what, it isn't real because you are tripping!
You can of course have a significant experience that could impact the rest of your life, but please remember that they are the result of the drug. To pretend that the hallucinations where of spiritual origins is to delude yourself.

Your brain doesn't know the difference between a dream and what you perceive to be reality. Spiritual experiences only happen in the mind. Oh, and burning bushes don't talk...ever.

dumbass...

I mush prefer the longer, safer route through meditation, hypnosis and lucid dreaming, rather than risky shortcuts like shrooms and stuff.

>> ^Flood:
Um, did someone forget to tell these people that they were tripping? How can you have a significant spiritual experience while tripping? If you see a burning bush that is talking to you, but you are tripping, guess what, it isn't real because you are tripping!
You can of course have a significant experience that could impact the rest of your life, but please remember that they are the result of the drug. To pretend that the hallucinations where of spiritual origins is to delude yourself.


You need to take some magic mushrooms.

>> ^WaterDweller:
I mush prefer the longer, safer route through meditation, hypnosis and lucid dreaming, rather than risky shortcuts like shrooms and stuff.

I always enter the immortality cheat codes when I first buy a video game. I like to achieve lucidity and self-realization in the same instantly gratifying way.

This doesn't really have much to do with the video, but I, for one, am not sure I ever want to be in a state of mind where the sentence...

When he laughed, purple-flavored radio waves spewed from his fingers.

...makes any sense whatsoever.

I'M TRIPPING BALLS!

I retain my stance that believing that a hallucination is a spiritual vision is deluding yourself. By "spiritual vision", I mean a vision of divine (though not necessarily heavenly) origin.

If you were tripping balls in the park, and saw Mickey Mouse part the clouds and talk to you, you'd have to be a nutter to believe that Mickey Mouse is God. So why believe the hallucination is spiritual if you replace Mickey Mouse with an old dude with a beard. To pick and choose whether a hallucination is just your mind playing tricks on you or whether it is spiritual is simply deluding yourself.

The one thing to learn from tripping is that the only reality you know is the one created by your brain, and that your brain can make up some crazy shit. If anything, it should shine some light on any other spiritual experience you ever had.

Open your eyes.

Flood why would you believe in a spiritual vision? It's either your brain accidentally spilling some chemicals like DMT, an epileptic seizure or other brain defect.

I have interacted with gods on Salvia who seemed more real than my parents, and I have felt the universal consciousness. I'm still an atheist though.

Cybrbeast,

I don't know whether spiritual visions are real or not. I doubt that they are real, because I have seen little evidence to suggest otherwise. But I suppose it's in the realm of possibility that someone could induce a targeted vision in another person, albeit not very probable with the technology we have. But I can't say for certain that spiritual visions are not real.

If I had a spiritual vision, I might consider that evidence towards the existence of them. However, I would have to gauge the quality of the evidence. If I was on psychedelic drugs when I had the spiritual vision, I would say that there is strong evidence that the vision was simply a chemically induced hallucination, and not anything spiritual.

I'm glad to hear that you recognized that the gods you interacted with while on Salvia were not real, instead of taking that experience as valid evidence of some kind.

Anything that imparts spiritual experiences in both the religious and the non-religious alike should be defended.

Flood, you need to look into the meaning of "spiritual experience." It doesn't mean talking to god you fucking child. Are you one of the town elders from Footloose? Do you have the reading/video-watching comprehension of my mother, who is so scared of everything she can't even seem to absorb the text of any given message?

In my world you're one of the fucking shrivs who'd be exiled for your closed-minded emotional tyranny. I can't even tell if you're a fanatical atheist or a christian with a stick in your ass. Either way STFU and go work on losing your virginity.

Budzos, obviously we are having conflict of semantics. When I say "spiritual vision", I am refering to a vision that is believed to have come from a deity.

There is a difference between these two things:

A) Having a dream about heaven.
B) Having a dream about heaven and believing the dream was a form of communication from a deity.

'A' could be described as an experience whose theme is spiritual.
'B' could be described as an experience whose origin is spiritual.

There is a very large difference between those two. I'm not attacking visions of type 'A' or type 'B', so no need to be defensive. I am simply stating that to confuse DRUG-INDUCED visions of type 'A' as DEITY-INDUCED visions of type 'B' does not make a lot of sense to me.

With that clarification, do you think I am still close minded? If so, I'd be interested to hear why you think that.

There's no arguing with that kind of backpedalling. Is anyone in the video or the thread saying they saw God, or a god, or communicated with god? No, they say they had a "spiritual experience" that led to a long-lasting sense of connectedness. Then you come in pissing all over that idea claiming that any spiritual experience induced by a hallucinogen is invalid. Now you're backpedalling in order to frame your statement in such a way that you look less like a moron.

budzos, I'm not backpedalling. See my first comment in the thread where I said:

>> ^Flood:
You can of course have a significant experience that could impact the rest of your life, but please remember that they are the result of the drug. To pretend that the hallucinations where of spiritual origins is to delude yourself.


In the context of how it was used in the video, I interpretted "spiritual experience" as implying that the person had an experience whose origin was spiritual. I did not interpret it as implying that the person had an experience where the theme was spiritual.

I'm trying to find common ground here. Can we at least agree that a drug-induced hallucination is not reasonable evidence for supporting the belief in a deity?

No, because nobody in the video or the comments thread is saying that. I'm not gonna have your strawman argument. See my comment, where I say you need to look into the meaning of "spiritual." And by look into the meaning I don't mean go get a dictionary.

If you must have an answer: Maybe doing LSD is one way to "see god". How would you know?

You wouldn't know, and no one would ever know, because doing LSD is one way to see anything your mind can come up with. You wouldn't believe in the flying spaghetti monster if you saw it while on LSD.

BTW, just because you are defending a different idea, or because you interpret the contents of the video in a different way, or because you disagree with me, doesn't mean I've committed the straw man fallacy. You shouldn't use debating terms if you don't know when it is appropriate to use them.

You're a very literal-minded person, aren't you? Somewhat pedantic too it seems, at least when it comes to the lies your mommy told you about drugs.

What did I say to make you think that I think drugs are bad?

I think it sounds like you lack experience.

I like shrooms and do consider them theraputic.

It bugs the shit out of me when I read people bashing them, because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Yes, some people do have abreactions, but that's no reason to spoil it for the rest of us.

>> ^rougy:
I like shrooms and do consider them theraputic.
It bugs the shit out of me when I read people bashing them, because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
Yes, some people do have abreactions, but that's no reason to spoil it for the rest of us.


You can't say "bashing' .. sorry. That term is taken.

Shrooms and LSD.. spiritual experiences. Spiritual experiences can be had without these drugs. THESE DRUGS ARE FOR CHEATERS!!!

Seriously though. I believe these types of experiences can be had without drugs, but not at the snap of a finger. I think it takes a lifetime of dedication, and practice to establish and maintain a connection with the "Oneness" or whatever. And those authentic, legitimately attained spiritual experiences are probably far greater. That's why these drugs are for cheaters, who are often ill-prepared and can't even comprehend the full beauty of their experience. They're just looking for shits and giggles, a good little trip.

>> ^WaterDweller:
I mush prefer the longer, safer route through meditation, hypnosis and lucid dreaming, rather than risky shortcuts like shrooms and stuff.


^ This is what I mean! You don't need drugs! Don't cheat!

Tags for this video have been changed from 'CNN, Magic, Mushrooms, long, lasting, positive, effects, news' to 'CNN, Magic, Mushrooms, long, lasting, positive, effects, news, psilocybin' - edited by kronosposeidon

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If psychedelics are "shortcuts", so are hypnosis, lucid dreaming, and meditation, ...oh and fasting, and church services, oh and the wisdom of daily experience too!

Is there really and basis for assigning relative value to any of these forms of experience -- value that you think applies to other people?

Why do people form such strong opinions about things they don't understand?

..and for those who are interested..
The "Good Friday Experiment" produced very similar results:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_journal2.shtml

did anyone notice "John Hopkin's coutch"?

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