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*Fake

*controversy, *viral

Adding video to channels (Controversy, Viral) - requested by Zawash.

So, lets start a list shall we?

1. Incorrectly secured gun
2. Incorrectly secured gun
3. Incorrectly secured gun(s)
4. Legally owned gun(s) that were registered. Due to a series of errors, the shooter was not stopped.

2015 deaths so far in the USA:

Tobacco: 229875
Alcohol: 65678
Drunk Driving: 22204
Drug Abuse: 16423
Prescription Drug Overdose: 9852
..........
Gun related: 8,561

When you break it down, this is fucking low brow propaganda to scare people into banning something without a true understanding of how that will affect their other freedoms.

http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm.....if you want some facts instead of this crap.

...

Gun rights people always seek to quote other causes of death, as if that has any bearing at all on the arguement..IT DOESNT..we shouldnt do anything about guns, because people drown? Thats fucking retarded. we shouldnt regulate guns, because people smoke? How fucked up is your thinking process? Hey, we shouldnt have seat belt laws ! Because, you know,,,people also overdose !! I have heard this line of bullshit repeated over and over, and it has to be one of the stupidest fucking arguements...ever......

Apparently you assume I don't believe in regulations to cover the ownership of guns. I do believe that guns should be regulated, but simple regulation isn't the goal of people like the creators of this video. They want guns BANNED, which I will never agree with for a myriad of reasons, the most simple of which is that it won't work in the US.

If you want to have a discussion over what laws and regulations would help to make gun ownership safer, we can. If your goal is to have them completely removed, then it's something we won't see eye to eye on.

IMO and life experience

I don't think anyone wants guns completely banned. I never have heard that. Id be interested to see where you get that information(all guns should be banned). Sounds like something the NRA or gun makers would say to scare gun owners.

Same people that want no gun regulation are the same that shout they want to take all our guns.

Gun manufactures and gun businesses/NRA love to scare people into thinking that they are coming to get all your guns. That's idiotic, but many fall for it constantly.

"A gun-control movement worthy of the name would insist that President Clinton move beyond his proposals for controls ... and immediately call on Congress to pass far-reaching industry regulation like the Firearms Safety and Consumer Protection Act ... [which] would give the Treasury Department health and safety authority over the gun industry, and any rational regulator with that authority would ban handguns."
- Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center

“If I had my way, sporting guns would be strictly regulated, the rest would be confiscated.”
– Nancy Pelosi, US Congresswoman

“US Senator, If I could have banned them all – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns’ – I would have!”
– Diane Feinstein, US Senator

"My view of guns is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned."
- Deborah Prothrow-Stith, Dean of Harvard School of Public Health

"I don't care if you want to hunt, I don't care if you think it's your right. I say 'Sorry.' it's 1999. We have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison."
- Rosie O'Donnell, Actress

“I don’t believe people should to be able to own guns.”
- Barack Obama (during conversation with economist and author John Lott Jr. at the University of Chicago Law School in the 1990s)

“We must get rid of all the guns.”
- Sarah Brady, Widow of James Brady

“I believe for example when Washington, D.C., passed a law that nobody could have a gun except law enforcement and it was struck down by the United States Supreme Court, that we should overrule the Supreme Court with a Constitutional amendment. I don’t believe that in our society that we should have guns.”
- Ed Koch, former NYC Mayor

“Confiscation could be an option…mandatory sale to the state could be an option.”
- Andrew Cuomo, NY Governor

“an assault weapons ban is just the beginning...a complete ban on handguns could be possible through state and local action.”
- Jan Schakowsky, llinois Congresswoman

“governments should start confiscating semi-automatic rifles and other firearms
- Dan Muhlbauer, Iowa state Rep.

Now, this was with a quick search on Google. I am sure there are more, but I just thought I would give a sample. Additionally, the really rabid activists have learned to rephrase statements to avoid the term ban. They aren't stupid, they know that they have to soften the phrasing to make it more palatable to the everyday citizen.

they dont, he is just repeating the same tired old bullshit,,,

you cant ban guns in america, the supreme court has already ruled on all this,,,

You have heard of constitutional amendments, haven't you? In fact, one of the quotes I produced from former Mayor, Ed Koch, even discussed that fact.

Please explain which FACTS that I have repeated are incorrect. So far all you have been able to do is curse me, accuse me of being retarded, and literally ignored anything I have said so that you can continue with your vitriol. I don't even know you and you seem to have a major issue with me.

The reason why I put up the list of deaths is because you don't see knee jerk actions in the news over those methods of dying, typically. You do see it over gun deaths because they are sensationalized far beyond the level of anything else, part of which is the reason I think we are having more mass shootings. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory, get your 15 minutes of fame, then shooting people is a guaranteed method.

I do believe we need additional controls on weapons; one that I think would help greatly is ACS (http://www.ammocoding.com/). I am also not an NRA member and don't agree with a lot of the methods they use. I DO believe wholeheartedly in my right to own semi automatic handguns and rifles. If you still have a problem with me over that, I can't help it. But if you continue to be confrontational, then I don't think we have anything further to talk about.

personally can't see eye to eye about this video. It's disheartening as a whole. But it doesn't make me want to hate owning a gun.

I personally don't have a need for gun ownership. And my knowledge of firearms is very limited (aka it all came from playing games, derp derp!). The most I would have done is take classes on how to safely handle one in case such a dire event arises.

Owning one? It's a fundamental right for an American citizen. Regulate as much as they (the gov't) want. But no amount of regulation can ever stop tragedies. No amount of laws signed into place will ever prevent another tragedy to happen.

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Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Friday, August 28th, 2015 1:51pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter Lumm.

This video just makes the case against registration of firearms.

Also, seems fake.

Well, it kind of is, I mean it's obviously going to be edited to show the message they want it to show.

Your statement that other forms of preventable death have no bearing on the argument may be correct for your interpretation of that argument, but you are clearly missing the point of the comparison. Nobody is saying that we shouldn't regulate guns because people smoke. The comparison is that if society can sit by and watch people die from totally preventable deaths due to cigarettes and alcohol, at a rate 35x higher than gun related deaths, then why not start there, or even include guns, alcohol and cigs in the same crackdown? In the hands of responsible people, who are the majority of owners, guns are a very low threat and can serve a purpose other than killing people. Cigarettes, in contrast, are perfect killing machines, and 100% of the time are harmful to anyone who sticks them in their mouth and serve one purpose and one purpose only - to degrade your health. If you're fortunate enough to be stuck near someone who smokes, they are harming your health as well. If those who wish to start imposing limits or controls on peoples personal freedoms by controlling access to things that kill people, why not start with something that affects 35x more people than guns do? And if anyone tells you death by gunshot is a gruesome horrible death that nobody should have to endure (and hyped to be so by media and anti-gun activists), go spend some time in a cancer ward to experience what these poor bastards go through during a prolonged death from lung cancer. Give me a bullet any time over that.

"States United to Prevent Gun Violence." SUP, GuV?

Tobacco: 229875
Alcohol: 65678
Drunk Driving: 22204
Drug Abuse: 16423
Prescription Drug Overdose: 9852
..........
Gun related: 8,561


Dishonest use of numbers. the "gun related" tallys the number of people killed by gun violence ie people shot and killed intentionally by other people, it does not include suicide (about 20k dead a year) or accidental shootings (about 700 dead a year)

Secondly, lets look at these other causes of death: Lets see, all of these, except drunk driving, is people KILLING THEMSELVES, unintentionally. Theres a pretty big difference. Drunk driving is ILLEGAL, and nobody is arguing that it would be a good idea to have more of it. And you know, its not like we're trying to get more people killed by tobacco, for instance, in fact, lots of people are working on trying to lower the number of deaths from all these other things, but just because more people die from alcohol or tobacco use, ten to fifteen thousand murder by guns a year doesnt really count??

Secondly, people are on the whole not actually working to get guns BANNED, but to implement restrictions, perhaps in the same way owning and driving a car has its restrictions. Cars, you see, are not banned. But there are RESTRICTIONS. Does anyone feel there arent enough cars around?. No. But there are restrictions. You need a drivers license. you need to follow some traffic rules. Similar things could be implemented for guns. It would be a start.
Another place to start is gun CULTURE, which is probably the intent of this video, changing people minds about guns.

Heres a challenge to your statistics: The number of people SAVED by guns. We always hear of the elusive situation of a bad criminal breaking in to kill your family, but luckily dads an NRA member and chases the bad guy away with a trusty old gun. How often does shit like that ever actually happen?

Of course you can discuss methods of gun control. But the point is that this video is disingenuous and wholly propaganda meant to color people's minds towards stricter gun laws and/or prohibition.

If you get upset over the NRA and weapons manufacturers using propaganda, why shouldn't we get upset over anti-gun people using the same thing?

I don't disagree with you about this video being what it is.

Also using the term anti-gun is lame. I think people should have the right to have guns but i think there should be tight controls and regulations. I'm sure i'm considered 'anti-gun' but that's just bullshit to rally pro gunners who are led like sheep by the NRA and gun industry.

Anyway we can go round and round for ever but im guessing we think close to the same when it comes to guns in America.

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

You are correct, they do not break down suicide by method, so some portion of that 20k could be guns. There are also 34 mass shooting deaths this year and 726 people shot by police. Then again they didn't add together some of the other items, like all vehicular deaths.

In any case, I was not fudging numbers, I picked the most obvious option and listed it.

In the grand scheme of things, it's not that the deaths from guns don't count, it is that the level of attention paid to them is far and above that paid to other forms of death. It's the same thing with people getting bit by sharks. The total number is incredibly low compared to other deaths or injuries from being in the ocean, but whenever it happens, you will see nothing but that in the headlines. That is what I was trying to say. It sucks that people have died from guns, but if we are going to sensationalize those deaths over others, it is nothing more than an agenda to demonize them.

I am all for implementing more restrictions on guns or other weapons, especially in ways that will make it more difficult for mentally ill people to get their hands on them and also methods that will help police identify guns that have been used in crimes. In many cases, the problem is not totally with the restrictions, but with how lax the enforcement is of the ones that are in place. We need to look at this as well. But the video is not about that, it is about making guns the villain. It is the same thing with semi automatic rifles, people with an agenda will call them things like "Military weaponry", "Assault Rifles", and "Automatic Machine Guns". They use buzz words to make them seem more than they are and yet you have clueless people like Joe Biden who says things like "get a shotgun", not realizing that a shotgun can easily wound and kill people faster than a semi auto rifle.

As far as the 'helpful' gun statistics, I would consider them to be subjective based on the situation. I found this site: http://gunssavelives.net/incident-map/, which might or might not be accurate. I wouldn't rely on it, because I don't know what they use for verification.

In any case, as I stated before, I don't mind regulations. I would mind bans and it is clear that many of the more hardcore anti gun people want that to be the end game.

I don't want guns banned, but I want them to be like in most other civilized countries where shootings, mass shootings and gun suicides are far less per capita. Severely controlled.

America has an obsession and even addiction to guns, which is shown in the people trying to blame everything else - @Mordhaus you say stuff like "incorrectly secured gun" as if the incorrectly secured somehow negates the gun part. If it was a incorrectly secured handgrenade, what then? Or an incorrectly secured machete?

I'm not saying you're a bad person at all (or tha other pro-gun people are), but this is what alcoholics or substance abusers do about their substance.

I want guns banned!

It always amuses me when the pro-gun lot always throw out the banning line, usually in all caps, like it's some crazy unthinkable future scenario where we're all eating babies and fucking gay satanist bibles.

I realise America won't ban them and the best you can hope for is much stricter licensing, but you'd absolutely be better off with a ban.

I say incorrectly secured in the exact fashion that it means. If the gun owner had taken care of their weapon and either made it inaccessible or unusable, then the incidents would not have happened. For instance, in the Sandy Hook shooting, the mother knew her son was mentally unstable and did not properly secure her weapons. This led to her death, followed by many others.

Gun safety means you treat your gun as a deadly weapon, and you secure it so that someone who should not have access to it cannot get it. If you don't, then bad things happen.

We do not have an obsession or addiction to guns, we have a right to them. Like it or not, we are not like other countries and never have been. This defines us and also creates uniquely difficult situations if we do not pay the proper respect to those rights. You can make thinly veiled comments about me being an addict or substance abuser if you like, I prefer to think that I am a citizen of a country unlike any other to this date in history. If that pisses you off, so be it.

I would also like to note that while I have been extremely civil and logical to this point, I have been constantly subjected to comments that try to loop me in with the radical gun nuts. I cannot stress enough that I am not, that I do think we need further gun control. It's as if people can't field a valid argument and feel the need to paint me as such instead, ignoring my repeated comments to the contrary.

As I said before, the US is a unique nation. We grant our people rights that no other nation before or since would consider. It has worked for us so far and I for one would not trade these rights to live in any other country.

I don't think we will need to rebel against our government or that the world is going to come to an end tomorrow. I do think that having an armed citizenry does prepare us for any situation and also does provide another check and balance for our government, should it ever try to deprive us of our freedom.

In any case, as screwed up as we may be, we are still the shining light. Even if we are Rome in decline, we are still Rome until another country is willing to step up to the plate. People still flock to us for the freedoms and chances that they can't get anywhere else in the world.

Hey isnt that the guy from GTA V?? Hes got the Voice the looks and the guns...

Well, first off let me say my comment was not to antagonize you or dehumanize you, and it was not meant as insulting.

I also think what you're pointing out here is exactly the cultural problem that exist in the US - you think you're special, a unique snowflake, entirely different (and even better?) country than all the others and it's just not true. The US is an adolescent country that still has scars from its violent birth at the hands of a revolution. One of those scars is the 2nd amendment.

It doesn't piss me off particularly, I'm more saddened that people die over stupid things. What boggles my mind is why aren't more people in the US pissed off about this? You people are the ones dying, your children are shot in school shootings, there are gun related murders every day in the US - why in the hell aren't you pissed off?

As a long-time American expat who has lived, worked, and studied in several countries, I have to say that that was one of the most succinct and accurate explanations of how I have come to feel about the culture of my native country.

It's amazing how enough time outside of a culture allows you to see it for what it is, both its flaws and its wonders. Unfortunately, I've also found that this is the hardest message to communicate back to to my American friends and family who have never had their blinders taken off.

You're probably right that a lot of these incidents could have been avoided if the gun owners were taking proper care of their firearm.

However, the folks interested in acquiring a weapon were doing so "for protection." They were not trained in safe handling of a weapon. They weren't even enthusiasts.

In instances of gun violence, it is rarely the people (enthusiasts/hobbyists) that take firearm safety seriously who are committing acts of violence, but people who haven't learned to be disciplined about these weapons. And to be honest these disciplined users are a far smaller fraction of gun owners than should be.

Guns do not necessarily have to be dangerous when cared for and respected properly. This requires diligence--which too many gun owners lack.

The folks who entered the shop looking for a weapon to protect themselves learned that the idea they had that owning a gun would improve their safety was a false one. That is all. It doesn't mean that you, are a dangerous gun owner, or that your guns should be taken away from you. Some folks just aren't ready for that responsibility.

We'll have to disagree on our view of the US. I could spend a very long time listing the things that make us unique in the history of nations, but that isn't really related to this topic. We definitely have our flaws, but I wouldn't trade them to live in any other country on this planet.

As far as my concern over these deaths, I feel terrible for the people that were killed and worse for their families. I certainly agree that we need stricter controls on our weapons to prevent this sort of thing happening in the future. While I empathize with the situation and want change, I also do not want to take knee-jerk reactions that could destroy the rights of my fellow citizens. Bad things will always happen to good people, but compounding these things with bad decisions based off emotion doesn't make the situation better.

It always amazes me whenever someone says they want a gun "for protection".

The U.S. is not the wild west anymore; I've been there several times and no one shot me, shot at me or even pointed a gun at me.

In NZ, if you want to buy a gun, you have to apply for a firearms license. If you don't have mental illness or a criminal record, you then state your reason for applying:
Hunting? Sweet, get some venison!
Target shooting? Awesome, have fun on the range!
Protection? Licence denied. We're all good without amateur idiots running around being paranoid.

Because of this, if you have a gun it is legally required to be secured in a gun safe. As Jim Jeffries puts it, a gun in a gun safe isn't much good if you want it for "protection"
*related=http://videosift.com/video/Jim-Jefferies-on-gun-control

Jim Jefferies on gun control has been added as a related post - related requested by ChaosEngine.

I don't want to ban guns, but I would like to see the following:

1. License gun owners like Germany licenses drivers. Six months of classes, followed by multiple exams.

2. Mandatory psychological examination for any person wanting to purchase a gun.

3. Require that a minimum of $1,000,000 death or dismemberment insurance be carried at all times.

4. Automatic 25-year sentence for ANY crime involving a gun.

Limit guns to:

- Shotguns: Single-barrel breach-load.

- Pistols: 6-shot rotating cylinder; hammer-cocked firing mechanism. No semi-automatic pistols.

- Rifles: Single-shot, bolt-action.

So, basically with the exception of like, two of those, Canadian gun laws.

Congratulations. You've managed to capture the entire diversity of the US by visiting several times and not get shot or had a gun pointed at you. This is like forming an opinion about whether sharks will bite humans after you've laid on the beach once or twice and have never been bitten. Searching for some relevance here... and ... nope, none.

Agreed, if your gun is in a traditional safe, it's not much good when the burglars or home invasion psychos kick in your front door at 2 a.m. Jim Jeffries is indeed a funny guy, but like many who don't understand what "for protection" means to some homeowners here in the US, you might want to cite a bit more credible source or at least educate yourself.

Thanks to biometric safes and locking devices, it is quite easy to have a secured gun in a safe at arms reach, accessible to only one person, that can be unsecured, ready to fire in about 4 seconds. I know this to be true, because I have such a setup, and we practice what to do when the home alarm goes off just like we practice fire drills.

The distressing part is I absolutely hate having to be in such a situation. I'm no cowboy and this isn't the wild west, but when families around me are having their doors kicked in in the middle of the night by armed thugs, or having one or two fuckheads follow them up the driveway for an easy push-in robbery accompanied by beatings, shootings, molestation and sometimes killing, I decided that there would be no way I could live with myself if something tragic ever happened to my family at the hands of these nut jobs, knowing I might have been able to do something to stop it. And no, one can't relay on the local police to take care of these crimes. Around here, even with a top notch alarm system in the house that goes directly to dispatch, the cops usually arrive to clean up the blood and take statements, and almost never in time to stop the crime or catch the criminals.

Do you have house, car, fire or life insurance? Sure, but you hope you'll never have to use it. So, what's so unbelievable about a gun for protection? What do you suggest? You appear to think it's silly to state it's for protection... so does one simply relying on hope, faith or good luck in never having to witness your wife or child being duct taped to a chair while criminals rummage through your house, or having their head kicked in or bloodied on the end of a baseball bat?

Just a suggestions, but try to spend some time as an actual resident in a country before you pretend to understand it, consider yourself fortunate that you don't live in such a situation, and for fucks sake stop with the snide, morally superior judgement of those who do. If you can muster that, on a guess that you might be from NZ but really don't know, I'll stop telling everyone that Kiwi's really do fuck sheep, especially on National Lamb Day when it's a competition rather than just a hobby.

Have fun.

Here is a wild thought... how about because the people in the video arn't creating it for their own financial gain?

Whats disingenuous is creating that kind of equivalency.

I respect your position and defence of it. I must say though that on inspection, the quoted reasoning can and therefore probably has been used in the past to condone slavery in America, and other awful stuff.

The problem with it is that you state your dedication to something regardless of the morality of it.

I'm trying to think of other things that have used the same reasoning. Sexism, bullfighting, fox hunting, anti-semitism, age old wars like the irish feud (until common sense prevailed)?

It really isn't a great way to set out your stall. There are so many things that we used to think were ok that needed to change, and the world is a better place because we didn't follow that "it's tradition" ethos.

Congratulations, you've managed to recognise an obviously tongue-in-cheek comment by applying basic reading skills. Oh no, wait... you didn't.

You want credible sources?

Here ya go:
correlation of gun ownership with suicide and homocide
How right-to-carry impacts the crime rate (hint: it's not good)

Understand, I don't want to ban guns. I have friends who hunt and shoot a lot, (I've done it myself a few times and quite frankly, shooting is fun).

The problem is that it's simply way too easy to get a gun in the US. You know why you have "armed thugs" breaking into your house? BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS A FUCKING GUN. In other 1st world countries, most break-ins are unarmed, because as Jim said, most people just want your TV.

Now, it may be that the ship has sailed in the U.S. because you failed to do anything about this for so long. But it would absolutely make sense to make it just a bit more difficult for anyone to have access to a gun.

America's problem is not guns, it's the awful social situation that rampant capitalism and consumerism has landed it in. Same as drugs aren't the reason why large communities of black people are stuck in the same cycle of drugs/gangs/violence/death. It's not because of the drugs, or the people themselves, it is because they are pretty much abandoned by society.

Guns are just a means to an end, and an easy one at that. They are an easy answer when you want to cause violence to someone else, or yourself.

The fact that so many people want to cause violence to others or themselves is what needs to be looked at.

I've visited many parts of the US and the people have generally struck me as friendly and polite to a fault. People will just strike up a conversation with you as if you were a long lost relative. I've had people sit with me on a public bus well past their stop just to make sure I got off at the right place. At it's heart, it's a great country. But the flip side is that currently, it's built on basic inequity and inequality. I was in LA when Katrina hit, and watching what happened was freaking unreal for me as a person who lives in an area prone to cyclones. When we get hit, the entire community bands together and takes care of each other. When New Orleans got hit, it was post apocalypse dog eat dog.

Getting rid of guns in the US won't stop inequality, it won't stop senseless accidents and it won't stop violence. The UK has had strict regulations on guns for years and *surprise* has a very high rate of knife crime. Australia introduced tough gun legislation after the massacre at Port Arthur massacre, but we didn't really have serious violence problems before that so while people claim that bans on semi-autos etc "worked", it's very hard to quantify going from "very little gun violence" to "very little gun violence" as much of a shift... It's a core difference in the social fabric of countries.

People who completely focus on banning the gun are neglecting to look at the bigger picture, and are often doing so deliberately because the bigger picture is far harder to solve. Same as the war on drugs. Regulate guns, sure, enforce safety and bring in high penalties for misuse or allowing your weapon to be misused. But banning them won't fix anything.

I don't really mind the video, thinking twice before owning a firearm is a good thing. But I think it misses the point.

2 words ----BULL SHIT.

Do the same bullshit story but use a Planned Parent hood store front / story. Abortions kill more than any other deaths.

US gun deaths since 1968: 1.5 million
Deaths in *all* US wars: 1.4 million
Congratulations, the NRA is officially a bigger enemy of the US than the NAZIs.
This has nothing to do with 'rights' or 'self protection'. This is all about gun manufacturer profits.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/aug/27/nicholas-kristof/more-americans-killed-guns-1968-all-wars-says-colu/

"In the nineteen-seventies, the N.R.A. began advancing the argument that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to carry a gun, rather than the people’s right to form armed militias to provide for the common defense."

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/04/23/battleground-america

Yeah, you got me there. Clever girl.

You want credible sources?

Here ya go:
http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/critical_issues/1995/gun/
http://www.hardylaw.net/FailedExperiment.pdf
(and the debate rages on)

Am 100% in agreement - "The problem is that it's simply way too easy to get a gun in the US." As a Canadian living in the USA for the past 15 years, not wanting to become a US citizen because I'd have to cut out half my brain, I've been through Canada's attempts at gun control too. Can't even buy a box of .22 shells at home without completing a classroom course (or is it two now?) which I think is the door swinging too far the other way. Worth noting perhaps is the incidence of gun crime in major metropolitan centers in Canada *appears* to be on the rise... would be nice if someone out there could do a comprehensive update using the same methodology as e.g. Mauser to see if it's real.

4 more comments have been lost in the ether at this killed duplicate.