More info from Reddit:

Found a bit more over at Correio do Povo from RS.
1) It was an organized event. The rides for Critical Mass are held on the last Friday of every month. Along with this, there were more than the normal amount due to them celebrating the inauguration of a newly opened "cultural space" in the city called "City of Bicyclists".
2) The manager of the Public Company for Transportation and Circulation (EPTC) was aware of the gathering from Critical Mass (since it's held on the same day every month), but did not receive any requests to accompany or provide security for the event.
3) The police have classified this as multiple attempted homicides, not an accident. As mentioned in the title of the post, the car has been found (a VW Golf) but the owner of the car is MIA. It's still unknown who was driving the car.
4) The president of the City Council of Porto Alegre has promised to set in motion the implementation of bike lanes for the city (which were already approved...just not started).
5) The Critical Mass group has already stated that next month's "rally" will be held in front of the house of the owner of the car.

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.

I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.

I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.

I wouldn't goes as far as to say that they deserved it. But cyclists live in a world where big car crushes little bike and they need to respect that. No matter how in the right you are.

>> ^Darkhand:

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.
I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.
I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.


Yeah, no...

Critical Mass is an organized peaceful protest that occurs in over 300 cities worldwide. You can fucking go around. Disagreeing with a peaceful protest, or being annoyed with the protesters, does NOT give anyone the right to run down fellow human beings with a 2 ton vehicle, wholesale, without regard to anyone's life at all.

I don't know of any cities in the WORLD that could produce that many bikers and only have 1 major thoroughfare.

*wheels *fear

Adding video to channels (Fear, Wheels) - requested by Hybrid.

*toyota

Carl knows what's up.

>> ^Darkhand:

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.
I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.
I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.


Haha, cylists convenience you so mass murder is ok. What if this had been a demonstration on foot, like we've seen in many capital cities around the world. They block roads too so is it ok to plow them down?

Honestly, go see a Doctor because your sick.

jasus. Fucking horrible.

>> ^Darkhand:

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.
I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.
I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.


You hope it happens more. You hope it happens more!?!?! So you support murder when traffic is blocked. You are saying you think that it is OK to drive over and crush the skulls of fellow human beings because of a protest costing you driving time. Well, as a general pacifist, I'm pretty close to supporting your murder in the interest of general welfare. You are either just some fucked up internet troll, or a truly fucked up individual that does not deserve any respect, love, or human compassion from the rest of your species.

Show me where there was room to "go around" and I'll agree with you that the guy that did this was a horrible person. My whole post was based on the fact that they were taking up the >ENTIRE ROAD<.
>> ^pho3n1x:


Yeah, no...
Critical Mass is an organized peaceful protest that occurs in over 300 cities worldwide. You can fucking go around. Disagreeing with a peaceful protest, or being annoyed with the protesters, does NOT give anyone the right to run down fellow human beings with a 2 ton vehicle, wholesale, without regard to anyone's life at all.
I don't know of any cities in the WORLD that could produce that many bikers and only have 1 major thoroughfare.

OOh puhlease.... like this rally happens every day. The driver needs to GROW UP (and grow old.. in prison)

I'll assume you are talking about some of the demonstrations against some great political injustice like those around the world. There is no INJUSTICE here. This is a bunch of people who get together on a regular basis and obstruct traffic to further their own cause at the cost of others.

If there was some sort of angry angry dictator who was going to melt all the bikes in Evilburg I'd agree with you that this sort of demonstration was necessary. But there isn't any emergency; there isn't any great evil at work here, there is no sense of urgency.

There are just a bunch of people who want to have cyclists recognized on the roads. There is no reason to cause massive traffic jams or disrupt everyone elses life for this. Go to your local political office and petition. If that doesn't work? Organize (I said Organize because Mass Effect AFAIK has no actual leadership) and have peaceful demonstrations that do not disrupt other peoples lives unnecessarily.



>> ^Jinx:

>>
Haha, cylists convenience you so mass murder is ok. What if this had been a demonstration on foot, like we've seen in many capital cities around the world. They block roads too so is it ok to plow them down?
Honestly, go see a Doctor because your sick.

I think that when you don't respect other people, you don't deserve to live. Whenever you put your own personal way of life in front of anyone else's you deserve to die. That's all these people are doing. They are putting their needs in front of everyone else's. So they deserved what they got.

I don't care if it's my right to have an abortion, or my right to eat a freakin cheeseburger.

Show me how doing these demonstrations are "respectful" in any way at all.

The cyclists rights end where my bumper begins. (As long as it's not in a cyclist lane of course)

>> ^WKB:


You hope it happens more. You hope it happens more!?!?! So you support murder when traffic is blocked. You are saying you think that it is OK to drive over and crush the skulls of fellow human beings because of a protest costing you driving time. Well, as a general pacifist, I'm pretty close to supporting your murder in the interest of general welfare. You are either just some fucked up internet troll, or a truly fucked up individual that does not deserve any respect, love, or human compassion from the rest of your species.

>> ^Darkhand:

I think that when you don't respect other people, you don't deserve to live.



Look there`s something in your coffee good ol Muammar G. was right !!

GOOOUUUUURANGA!!!!







Too soon?

@Darkhand, are you out of your fucking mind? Are you honestly this depraved and morally stunted?

@Darkhand you really should just shut up about the situation, you are going in circles.

@Payback I laughed, but I wont upvote it , I tried playing that game a couple months ago, just looses its lustre after you play the 3d game.

>> ^Darkhand:

Show me where there was room to "go around" and I'll agree with you that the guy that did this was a horrible person. My whole post was based on the fact that they were taking up the >ENTIRE ROAD<.
>> ^pho3n1x:

Yeah, no...
Critical Mass is an organized peaceful protest that occurs in over 300 cities worldwide. You can fucking go around. Disagreeing with a peaceful protest, or being annoyed with the protesters, does NOT give anyone the right to run down fellow human beings with a 2 ton vehicle, wholesale, without regard to anyone's life at all.
I don't know of any cities in the WORLD that could produce that many bikers and only have 1 major thoroughfare.



Oh, should I give you specific pause points in the video to show the many MANY intersections which were available to detour through?

>> ^Darkhand:

I'll assume you are talking about some of the demonstrations against some great political injustice like those around the world. There is no INJUSTICE here. This is a bunch of people who get together on a regular basis and obstruct traffic to further their own cause at the cost of others.
If there was some sort of angry angry dictator who was going to melt all the bikes in Evilburg I'd agree with you that this sort of demonstration was necessary. But there isn't any emergency; there isn't any great evil at work here, there is no sense of urgency.
There are just a bunch of people who want to have cyclists recognized on the roads. There is no reason to cause massive traffic jams or disrupt everyone elses life for this. Go to your local political office and petition. If that doesn't work? Organize (I said Organize because Mass Effect AFAIK has no actual leadership) and have peaceful demonstrations that do not disrupt other peoples lives unnecessarily.

>> ^Jinx:
>>
Haha, cylists convenience you so mass murder is ok. What if this had been a demonstration on foot, like we've seen in many capital cities around the world. They block roads too so is it ok to plow them down?
Honestly, go see a Doctor because your sick.



It's Critical Mass, look it up and you'll see not only what their message is, but you won't get them confused with a VIDEO GAME either.

>> ^Darkhand:

I think that when you don't respect other people, you don't deserve to live. Whenever you put your own personal way of life in front of anyone else's you deserve to die. That's all these people are doing. They are putting their needs in front of everyone else's. So they deserved what they got.
I don't care if it's my right to have an abortion, or my right to eat a freakin cheeseburger.
Show me how doing these demonstrations are "respectful" in any way at all.
The cyclists rights end where my bumper begins. (As long as it's not in a cyclist lane of course)
>> ^WKB:

You hope it happens more. You hope it happens more!?!?! So you support murder when traffic is blocked. You are saying you think that it is OK to drive over and crush the skulls of fellow human beings because of a protest cos*qualityting you driving time. Well, as a general pacifist, I'm pretty close to supporting your murder in the interest of general welfare. You are either just some fucked up internet troll, or a truly fucked up individual that does not deserve any respect, love, or human compassion from the rest of your species.



Choose your method then sir. Your lack of respect for other people is appalling. The way you are putting your personal life (oh noes I have to get to Burger King before I get fired), in front of everyone elses...

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by pho3n1x.

>> ^siftbot:

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by pho3n1x.


I did?

>> ^Darkhand:

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off ...


I didn't know there was such a thing as internet road rage until now.

I think intentionally blocking traffic is an asshole thing to do, but they certainly didn't deserve that.

@Darkhand

This is why I don't spend much time arguing on forums anymore. Invariably, there are people with such ridiculous, insane opinions it becomes a waste of time to even acknowledge them (irony).

Gaussian curve, enough said. Some humans are flawed beyond repair.

Wouldn't go as far as to say they deserve it, but whenever I see a 'rally' like this in my home city, secretly, deep down, I wanted to do this too. They're assholes.

>> ^pho3n1x:
>> ^siftbot:
Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by pho3n1x.

I did?


Yeah, you seem to have accidently clicked the "possible invocations" while your cursor was inside Darkhand's quote of WKB, in the middle of "costing".

Ha! stupid mouse with a mind of its own... now I've lost a power point. How inconvenient. Hey siftbot, get on a bike so I can run you down.

False dichotomy, much? Either go around or commit mass homicide? I'd hate to see you stuck behind a school bus letting out kids.

>> ^Darkhand:

Show me where there was room to "go around" and I'll agree with you that the guy that did this was a horrible person. My whole post was based on the fact that they were taking up the >ENTIRE ROAD<./em>

Troll

1. Bicycles don't block traffic. We ARE traffic. Just like cars and buses.

2. Cars actually block all forms of transportation daily on major routes around the world for hours with traffic jams. Critical Mass is brief, localised, doesn't stay on the same route for long, and actually moves.

3. Consider that even at the leisurely pace of a typical Critical Mass ride, more bikes can get through an intersection in a minute than cars can. This is a more efficient use of the roads than driving.

4. It's nice, once a month, to be able to enjoy riding our streets (cyclists pay taxes too) without having to fight for our space with larger vehicles.

I've always, and still do consider theses Critical Mass rallies as little better than any other protest that blockades a major thoroughfare. It's wrong and people should get arrested and fined at these things more regularly.

That said, this is utterly horrific. There is little difference between this and dispersing the crowd with a spray from a fully automatic weapon. However much I disagree with Critical Mass, this was terrible and nothing can even remotely justify it.

>> ^Darkhand:
It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.
I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.
I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.


...and the douche of the day goes too (drumroll please)...DARKHAND!

@Darkhand is completely insane. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think it's ok to run these people down with a car. I hope the driver is found and spends a shitload of time in prison.

But these Critical Mass pricks certainly are a self-righteous bunch. This is not a protest; this is assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else. @messenger makes the argument that bikes "are traffic" just like cars and buses. This is true, which is why bikes have to obey traffic laws, just like cars and buses. Critical Mass does not obey traffic laws; that's the whole point of the event (they prefer "spontaneous celebration" so they don't have to do the proper paperwork for an event).

If I, in my car, were to behave like the CM cyclists; running red lights and stop signs, destroying others' property, violating laws at every opportunity; I would be arrested within 15 minutes and nobody would feel the least bit sorry for me, yet everyone loses their shit if one of these cyclists is ticketed or arrested.

They should all be ticketed and the few who take it even further, smashing car windows and such, should be arrested too. There's no reason they should be above the law, no matter how much they believe they are. If they want to shut down city streets, they should do the paperwork like anyone else. Make CM a cyclists' parade... it'll do wonders for your PR.

Awww, I think you're just jealous cause you're too fat to ride a bike
>> ^Darkhand:

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.
I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.
I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.

But these Critical Mass pricks certainly are a self-righteous bunch.
In large part, fair, I suppose.

This is not a protest; this is assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else.
Not so. Protests are not designed to be convenient. They're designed to get attention. Some disrupt people's lives a lot. CM only does a little. Also, you could as easily describe all car drivers as "assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else" every day during rush hour, but I'm guessing you're a car driver, so you empathise with them, but not with cyclists.

...bikes have to obey traffic laws, just like cars and buses. Critical Mass does not obey traffic laws; that's the whole point of the event...
Well, no. Breaking laws "at every opportunity" is not the point of CM. You acknowledge it's a protest, of sorts, so you shouldn't be surprised that we go through stop signs. Big deal. As for property damage, that's not part of CM. Not sure what you've been reading. Beyond traffic laws, we generally don't do anything wrong, and IMO, people who do should be arrested.

so they don't have to do the proper paperwork for an event
Some cities do file the paperwork every month. Don't know which ones. Not mine. I don't like that idea because it requires declaring an official leader and an official "parade route", both of which miss the point of not needing to ask permission to use our own roads, and the point of it being a protest, not a parade.

they should all be ticketed and the few who take it even further, smashing car windows and such, should be arrested too. There's no reason they should be above the law, no matter how much they believe they are.
Fair. Any cyclists who break laws beyond traffic laws are stepping outside the protest, and are fair to arrest. And we sometimes are arrested, but usually just for riding our bikes, you know, like peaceful protesters often get arrested. But mostly, the police respect us as harmless protesters and let us go on our way, sometimes even helping to block intersections for us.

Make CM a cyclists' parade... it'll do wonders for your PR.
So, the exact same protest, but with some city bureaucrat's stamp on a piece of paper, and suddenly now it's OK with you? I mean, is it OK, or isn't it? If it's OK, then why do you care if we have a permit? If it's not OK with you, again, what difference would it make if we had a permit?>> ^xxovercastxx:

<the neat-o stuff quoted above>

@messenger

Also, you could as easily describe all car drivers as "assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else" every day during rush hour, but I'm guessing you're a car driver, so you empathise with them, but not with cyclists.

It certainly happens that traffic jams and car accidents cause major inconvenience, but that's not the same as going out with the intent of clogging the roads. It's no accident that the event was originally named the "Commute Clot". I actually do love riding my bike, or at least I did before a neck injury made it agonizing to do so. I have no problem sharing the road with anyone who is willing.

Breaking laws "at every opportunity" is not the point of CM. You acknowledge it's a protest, of sorts, so you shouldn't be surprised that we go through stop signs.

Breaking traffic laws most certainly is, or at least was when this thing got started. I most certainly do not acknowledge this as a protest. Protests are against something: a war, discrimination, etc. What is CM protesting; traffic laws? Equal access to the road? No, this is just a troll festival.

I don't like that idea because it requires declaring an official leader and an official "parade route", both of which miss the point of not needing to ask permission to use our own roads, and the point of it being a protest, not a parade.

And if all you want to do is have a bunch of cyclists go for a ride together, obeying stop signs, red lights, right-of-way, etc, that's awesome and no, you don't need permission or special paperwork or anything like that. However, if that's what your local city does then you have strayed from the intent of CM, that being to block off roads with massive quantities of traffic-law-ignoring cyclists so as to disrupt anyone else's commute. If that's the goal, then that's what parade paperwork is for. Just don't expect to be allowed to fuck up the city every month.

You keep referring to it as a protest, so why don't you tell me what you're protesting?

More like most terrible person 'ever' of the Sift-year. He backed himself up twice - three strikes to being a complete sociopath. Time to see a doctor.

>> ^rottenseed:

>> ^Darkhand:
It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Some of these rally's are peaceful but I can tell you as a motorist I'd be really REALLY pissed off if I got stuck behind a bunch of cyclists blocking the road. All of these people could take up one lane, but no, they choose to take up the entire street. Who cares about people that have to get to work? The buses carrying the masses maybe to the THEIR jobs, or home to their families? No, lets prove a point by completely stopping a major form of transportation.
I'm sorry but these people deserve what they got and I hope it happens at more of these gatherings where they block whole intersections and lanes of traffic.
I support everyones freedom to transport themselves anyway they want. I believe wherever possible we should have lanes that support cyclists. But this is NOT the way to do it.

...and the douche of the day goes too (drumroll please)...DARKHAND!

@xxovercastxx
It certainly happens that traffic jams and car accidents cause major inconvenience, but that's not the same as going out with the intent of clogging the roads. It's no accident that the event was originally named the "Commute Clot".
I don't think CMers much like or identify with the old name, which I think was just some arguably witty consonance. I wouldn't join a ride with that name because I don't necessarily want to disturb people. The new name comes from a line in a documentary film, where bicycle traffic in Beijing was stopped indefinitely at certain intersections, never allowed to proceed until "a critical mass of (waiting) cyclists" formed, spilled out in front of the cars, blocking their way, and finally allowed the cyclists to move, which they all did together, in the protection of numbers. Today's CM rides are the planning of that "critical mass of cyclists" so that once a month, at most, we can experience the freedom to ride our own roads.

I actually do love riding my bike, or at least I did before a neck injury made it agonizing to do so.
Really, really sorry to hear this.

I have no problem sharing the road with anyone who is willing. Breaking traffic laws most certainly is, or at least was when this thing got started.
Well, it's not the point anymore. Traffic laws aren't the problem. In Toronto (my city) for this reason, we started following traffic lights, but this caused its own problems with breaking up the ride, and creating dangerous situations with a few cyclists going through anyway, and confusing the cross traffic, so we mostly now just go on through. It's safe.

And if all you want to do is have a bunch of cyclists go for a ride together, obeying stop signs, red lights, right-of-way, etc, that's awesome and no, you don't need permission or special paperwork or anything like that.
When that's all I want, I stay off the roads, and use bicycle paths and nature trails. I actually don't much like riding with other people, to be honest.

I most certainly do not acknowledge this as a protest. Protests are against something: a war, discrimination, etc. What is CM protesting; traffic laws? Equal access to the road? No, this is just a troll festival. However, if that's what your local city does then you have strayed from the intent of CM, that being to block off roads with massive quantities of traffic-law-ignoring cyclists so as to disrupt anyone else's commute. If that's the goal, then that's what parade paperwork is for. Just don't expect to be allowed to fuck up the city every month. You keep referring to it as a protest, so why don't you tell me what you're protesting?
As there is no leader, there are maybe as many ideas about what CM is as there are cyclists in the ride. Most, however, will agree with what you said, that we're protesting for equal access to the roads, as well as improved cycling infrastructure, increased cycling budget, and so on. And if that defies what you perceive as the original intent of CM, that's none of my business. I am not against anybody. I just want to enjoy my slice of the pie as comfortably and unmindfully (is that a word? you know what I mean) as car drivers get to do every day.

It seems ironic that the driver in this video (who appears to be almost as much of a douche as Darkhand) by driving through the riders the way he did, littered the road with injured cyclists and broken bicycles causing a much greater traffic disruption than Critical Mass could ever have hoped to.

What that driver did was reprehensible, but reading up on this critical mass nonsense these people sound like pretentious self-entitled douchebags.

First of all, I hope that driver will be found and fully prosecuted for their violent temper tantrum assault. Why didn't the bike riders just pull over to one lane and let traffic pass? If you're going to protest in that inconsiderate fashion, you would think they would be organized/prepared to allow people to pass. Other wise you are just going to alienate those who are indifferent, and could end up resenting Critical Mass come elections and budget cutting season. Bike lane maintenance is a very excusable cut. So one would think winning over the public might be a good overall idea.

After reading up on Critical Mass, they really should find a more efficient way to get their message across. While I see a random protest sign in this video their message remains clouded. Ever heard of the billboard effect? It seems like their message isn't getting out, unless you consider random acts of violence like this to be getting the message out. Ever hear of picketing city hall, after all that's where the decisions they're protesting originate.

Doesn't anybody here realize that the driver was Darkhand?

>> ^messenger:

Most, however, will agree with what you said, that we're protesting for equal access to the roads.

Maybe the laws are different in Canada, but in the US a bicycle is subject to all traffic laws when on a road, just like a car. It doesn't get more equal than that. In fact, they've got it quite a bit better, because they also get to ignore virtually all of those laws with no repercussions.

What most cyclists need, in my opinion, is a reality check.

1. "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." -- Anatole France

Roads are built and designed for drivers, and drivers only. Bicycles are awkwardly sandwiched between motorised traffic and parked cars with doors swinging open, or shunted onto less convenient side roads. The laws as well, are written by drivers, for drivers' safety and convenience alone.

2. Nobody but pedants care about cyclists breaking laws because it doesn't result in anything worse than a pedestrian jay-walking does. So yes, I am actually saying that it's fine for cyclists to break victimless traffic laws. There's no danger to anyone. These laws didn't exist anywhere until car drivers showed they were unable to manage their vehicles safely without them. And then cyclists, who had often campaigned for these laws to bring car drivers into check, were then forced to follow them themselves, rather than devise a new set of laws for cyclists. I think it's time for that new set of laws.

And something's working -- either CM or cyclists' flagrant disregard for unfair traffic laws -- because in Toronto, the city realized there was no reason cyclists shouldn't be able to ride the other way on residential one-way streets, or turn right on red lights (at some lights cars can't turn right because this blocks the flow of traffic coming from the left), so they changed some by-laws to allow these things.

3. This idea that car drivers don't break laws is utter fiction, and one I'm happy to draw attention to. Cars regularly pass cyclists at an unsafe distance, follow at an unsafe distance, make unsafe turns and lane changes from in front of and beside cyclists, and open their doors into cyclists' paths. But for some reason, nobody thinks of these things as laws that are being broken. Nobody notices or cares. What's worse, breaking these laws is actually dangerous! These laws exist because people get injured and killed when they're not followed. They're designed for cars, and it's car drivers not following them.

4. (following on #2 above) Since the laws aren't written to fit cyclists travelling style, we learn that we have to pick and choose which ones we want to follow, because to follow the law literally would sometimes be dangerous (e.g. cyclists, like cars, are supposed to take up the whole lane and not let anyone pass in the same lane ever). This sets a bad precedent because now many cyclists simply decide for themselves that riding on sidewalks, or over people's lawns is OK. It's not. If the laws on the books actually represented how cyclists moved, it wouldn't occur to cyclists not to follow laws, except in as much as it occurs to car drivers as well. In a nutshell, bad laws lead to bad behaviour.

>> ^xxovercastxx:

>> ^messenger:
Most, however, will agree with what you said, that we're protesting for equal access to the roads.
Maybe the laws are different in Canada, but in the US a bicycle is subject to all traffic laws when on a road, just like a car. It doesn't get more equal than that. In fact, they've got it quite a bit better, because they also get to ignore virtually all of those laws with no repercussions.
What most cyclists need, in my opinion, is a reality check.

@messenger

You keep saying roads are designed for automotive traffic like there's something wrong with that. Somewhere above you pointed out that cyclists pay taxes too. Your taxes also pay for sidewalks, bike trails, and forest preserves but you don't have the right to drive your car on or through any of them. If you want to ride a bike in amongst the cars, you have to accept that it's dangerous: you're harder to see, even in daylight, and your "crumple zones" are all filled with vital organs. It's a hell of a lot safer for you if you act like normal traffic.

Last week I really cared about one particular cyclist who broke a rather important traffic law. He ran a stop sign, traveling perpendicular to me, as I was entering the intersection. Fortunately, I was cruising at a pretty slow pace (maybe 25mph tops) so it wasn't a tough stop, but I did have to lock 'em up to not run the idiot over.

I don't really give a shit if cyclists ride on the shoulder (when there is one) or even the sidewalk (provided there's room amongst the pedestrians). Sure, these are technically illegal but they are good examples of, as you called it, victimless traffic laws.

One of the big problems with having bikes sharing road space with cars is you can easily fit 2-3 bikes in a car's blind spot. This is one of the big reasons bikes get sandwiched during lane changes. This is also one problem that's really not helped by typical urban bike lanes.

"This idea that car drivers don't break laws is utter fiction", and also something that I never claimed. Not sure why you're debunking the phantom argument.

I don't think any laws are going to make it safe for cyclists to be on the roads, even in designated bike lanes. No matter how perfect the system is and even if everyone adheres to it, bikes are difficult to see and even a "minor" collision with a bike is a major accident for the rider. In less urban areas, bike lanes are sometimes built some 20+ feet off the side of the road. This works well, when possible, because short of a major accident that launches a car off the road and onto the bike lane, the two never really share the same space.

Within a dense city, I don't know what the answer is. Maybe elevated bike lanes could work, sort of like how they run subway tracks in certain places.

Ok, I just paused writing for a second to do a search for "elevated bike lanes" and found some interesting concepts:

http://www.thepurehands.org/cycleways/
http://kolelinia.com/kolelinia/

Somewhere I saw someone mention that a lot of older cities also have abandoned subway tunnels that could be repurposed. I understand that underground isn't the nicest place for a bike ride on a warm spring day, but it's a pretty sweet idea if you're just looking to commute. Even if you just reused sections of tunnel in spots where there was no room overhead, it's valuable to keep in mind.

I really think separating the bikes from the cars is the way to go. Like I said before, even in the best circumstances there will be accidents and bike vs car is never really going to turn out well for the biker.

Man You fools have no idea... Thats the plan!!

I dont see why roads should be built for cars at all.
Stop building entire citys around a transport system thats going to pass away sooner or later..
Take all the space that is wasted by cars in a big city due to parking and increase living space.

Take the extra revenue from housing and stop building highways, now improve the public transport system and make it free of charge..

Bigger greener citys..

New york without cars, people start to live on the streets.. parks again instead of just using the outside to get somewhere else..

You even get to know your neighbours..

Like medieval citys...

@xxovercastxx
But it's not safer for us to always act like "normal" (gee, thanks) traffic. If I acted according to the laws of my province (Ontario), I would have to take up an entire lane at all times, and not let anyone pass me. Seriously. I'd get run down like the people in this video. This law was written for motorcyclists so that cars wouldn't crowd them out, and so motorcyclists wouldn't pass between cars when stopped. Then it was blindly applied to cyclists too. So yeah, cyclists try to find their own way through the laws not designed for them, and no, we don't have to just accept it.

Also, like I said before, cyclists not following laws doesn't result in anyone getting killed, except maybe themselves, like that cyclist who blew through the stop sign in front of you. OK, he's stupid. What's that got to do with cyclists who turn right without stopping in empty residential areas? Or, more to the point, with cyclists who slow down to 10 km/h to look both ways before continuing, but technically not stopping? Nothing. So stop painting cyclists in general as scoff-laws to make your point. It's disingenuous.

Something tells me you haven't put any thought into what laws might affect cyclists, so you're not in a great position to say that there are no laws or structural changes that would make a difference to cyclists' safety. There's lots that can be done, things you, as a driver, haven't thought of because it's got nothing to do with you. It may never be as safe for cyclists as for drivers, but there's so much that can be done to make it better. All I hear from you in this thread is, "You are weak. You will always be killed. Just give up. You go out of your way to break laws, so deserve no respect from anyone. Stop trying to make your life better. Accept your fate as a lower class of road user. Get out of my way." Not that you hate cyclists, you just have contempt for us.

Peace.

@messenger

I hope you don't mind if I save time and space by not responding to the shit you just made up.

The only "contempt" I'm expressing is for the CMers who think they deserve to fuck up everyone else's day because their situation isn't ideal. And no, I'm not saying that's all of them.

It's dangerous to be on the road on a bike; you said so yourself; and I'm just saying that will always be true no matter how the laws are changed. It might become more or less dangerous, but it will still be dangerous.

Cars have the road and pedestrians have the sidewalk; bikes should get their own "domain", too. I guess you think that's some sort of bigotry, but I don't see how else bikers can be safe.