Separation of Church and State!!!

P.S.: Thomas Jefferson was Agnostic.

IDIOT.

He's a great man, this video proves it.

America wasn't founded muslim, atheist, hindu, etc..., so ya'll have no argument here. Try again, kids.

"My faith is better than any others, which is why only someone OF my faith is fit to lead".

...is this guy fucking serious ?

The constitution was written with the INTENT to REMOVE religion from the Government, BECAUSE of the shit that the early nation was put through under RELIGIOUS RULE from ENGLAND.

What the fuck..seriously Mccain, you cant be this stupid.

THIS MAN IS DUMB.

This is how history is slowly rewritten. The simple fact that many people will -want- to believe what Mccain is saying is enough.

It's sickening.

I want to throw up.

You. Are. Fired. You will never be my president. Leave now, pls.

He's a great man, this video proves it.

America was founded on Christian principles yet remains a non-theocracy. It's as atheistic as it can be without sending people to Siberian labor camps like they did in the Atheist Union.

Blah blah Christ blah blah America blah blah.

The United States has been a theocracy for the last 8 years, people just don't know it yet. If McCain becomes president the US will continue its slide down wash-out lane.

>> ^BillOreilly:
He's a great man, this video proves it.
America wasn't founded muslim, atheist, hindu, etc..., so ya'll have no argument here. Try again, kids.


hehehehe... I love your thinly veiled satire.

>> ^quantumushroom:
He's a great man, this video proves it.
America was founded on Christian principles yet remains a non-theocracy. It's as atheistic as it can be without sending people to Siberian labor camps like they did in the Atheist Union.

hehehehe...I love your thick ignorance.

upvote solely so that more people will have the opportunity to see exactly how far his pandering will go

"I would probably have to say, 'yes', the Constitution established the United States of America as a christian nation."

Show me...

*lies. I would also say * terrible, but I'm one hundred percent sure his saying the nation was founded in the Judeo-Christian Faith is a lie.

Adding video to channels (Lies) - requested by oxdottir.

*dbag

He is old.

hehehehe...I love your thick ignorance.<---No need to get gay, comrade.

Atheists worldwide have murdered over 100 million people. Since you're going to lump all religious folks together, don't y'all deserve to be thrown in with other atheists?

This man needs to not win.

I can't believe I liked this guy at one point.
QM, that was Fascists, not Atheists.

No, Henning. Atheistic communists alone are responsible for 100 million murdered worldwide.

I would argue the communist states of yesterday and today more closely resemble Fascism in practice than formal communism. But whatever... that was Dictators, Communists and Fascists, not Atheists. The relevant factor is utter submission to the will of the state, not godlessness.

>> ^quantumushroom:
hehehehe...I love your thick ignorance. <---No need to get gay, comrade.
Atheists worldwide have murdered over 100 million people. Since you're going to lump all religious folks together, don't y'all deserve to be thrown in with other atheists?


Such an old, tired, disproven argument. Name one -- just one -- violent act committed in the name of atheism.

*crickets*

Now try to think of a few that were committed in the name of some deity -- you'd probably already come up with a dozen examples before you even finished reading the question. Sorry to invoke Godwin's Law, but here goes . . . Hitler may have committed a terrible genocide, but it wasn't in the name of Roman Catholicism (his religion). He just happened to be a Roman Catholic, just like Stalin happened to be an atheist. If anything, Stalin had created the Soviet Communist Party as a new religion and committed atrocities in the name of his pseudoreligion, Communism. However, hundreds if not thousands of dictators throughout history have committed countless atrocities in the name of their respective religions.

And, by the way, this country was founded largely by those who considered themselves skeptical of religion. Show me one Judeo-Christian reference in the Constitution. One.

*crickets*

"no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States"

[and the "so help me God" part of the presidential oath isn't even part of the presidential oath]

>> ^T-man:
"no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States"
[and the "so help me God" part of the presidential oath isn't even part of the presidential oath]


This despite the fact that 13 (correct this number if I'm wrong) states' respective Constitutions explicitly require a religious test as a qualification to hold public office. And McBush is retarded -- "in God we trust" was added when he was in his twenties. Despicable.

This man should not qualify to be president when he clearly doesn't even know the history of his own country.

The U.S. Constitution begins with "We the people," and never mentions a god, the Bible, Jesus or Christianity. The only references to religion are exclusionary; "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office is the only oath detailed in the Constitution, and it does not contain the phrase "so help me god" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause .

People like to elaborate on the Bible's message, stating things about a vaguely-worded verse that were not distinctly mentioned, and the same is done with the Constitution. The Founding Fathers never mentioned that Congress shall make no law establishing a particular denomination of one religion; they said "religion." If they had meant to be more direct, they would have been. And if you think there is room to interpret on your own, then you can think there is room for interpretation on all aspects of the Constitution. For instance, I think the second amendment only allows for the keeping of toy cap guns that smell funny after all the caps are fired. Also, the due process law is only for white people named Mortimer. So says the Lord.

I am not an American, but I always thought that people left England and went to the The New World to get away from religious persecution, and that was what lead to trying to keep any slant for or against religion out of the government?

>> ^nibiyabi:
>> in God we trust" was added when he was in his twenties. Despicable.


One Nation Under God was added around the same time, all due to Red Terror.

The Soviet Union was athetisic because it wanted to concrete power upon itself not to anyone else including God.

They followed the teaching of Karl Marx, that religion is the opium of masses.

Not because they didn't like theology or anything, its about power and control of it. They sought absolute power.

QM You used to be pretty good at this.

If anything, America was founded agnostic. The only reason any of our founding articles use the word "creator" is that evolution hadn't been invented yet. Creation was the best option back then. I bet Washington, Jefferson and that lot would've loved the idea though. They would've seen their Revolution as the survival of the fittest political system.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'John McCain, America, founding fathers' to 'John McCain, America, founding fathers, lies, ignorance, bullshit' - edited by jwray

WTF is McCain doing?! Pandaing to the Christian community - way to go fucktard - and now every other faith is going to be *very* comfortable with you in charge...

You can have any religion, worship any god, but this is not a criteria from running a country...

I can't believe an American running for President doesn't know basic fucking history of his own country.

The rest of the world is laughing at McCain, Dont forget his http://www.videosift.com/video/McCain-knows-his-presidents "meeting with germanys leader"

Oh, and this guy also wants to start a new Cold War with Russia, by kicking them out of G8

Way to Go McCain - isolate America from the world - Thats change...no, wait thats the bush administrations policy...

Also, George W Bush said "God wants everyone to be free...in fact,...erm...its part of my foreign policy"

McBush for 2008! hehe, de doesn't like that either much eh?

<3 McCain

So if America was founded on Christian beliefs, the whole "In God We Trust" thing; that would mean America was founded in 1956...

Oh man, this guys is just insane enough to make a chance of becoming your next President! I mean, what would this world be without an slightly deranged, out-of-touch fundamentalist Christian in the White House?

>> ^jimnms:

The presidential oath of office is the only oath detailed in the Constitution, and it does not contain the phrase "so help me god" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause .


There isn't even a requirement that a person "swears" - they can "affirm." That's how concerned the founding fathers were about religious tests for office (de jure or de facto).

People support this guy. OMG.

five minutes in any library or on the internet and you can find out that this guy doesn't know anything about the foundation of his own country. it's not debatable.

if some english politician confused the magna carta with the foundation of the church of england they'd be laughed off the campaign trail in 24 hours. wouldn't they?
if some lithuanian politician swapped the words "Poland" and "Russia" they'd probably get beaten up in the street on the way out of the studio.

I thought americans at least taught kids their OWN history.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

There's plenty more where that came from here:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

^Aplus

Does Obama support separation of curch and state? Prolly not, it would be a bad campaing move...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'John McCain, America, founding fathers, lies, ignorance, bullshit' to 'John McCain, America, founding fathers, lies, ignorance, bullshit, disgusting, idiocrat' - edited by lucky760

Thinking about it, we probably wouldn't have all of the land for the US that we have today if it wasn't for manifest destiny. Manifest destiny can be defined as beliefs that a god had a plan for us to take over. Assuming that this was a Christian god, then I suppose yea, this country was largely founded on the murder of "Native Americans" just as it was founded a Christian nation. So...if you, as a Christian would like to take credit, go ahead.

QuantumMushroom has either got to be a troll or a sock puppet. Nobody can be that fucking dense.

Hard to believe McCain doesn't realize that separation of church and state proves America was founded by atheists, on atheist beliefs and that only atheists should be considered fit to be president. Separation of church and state means that anything tied to religious belief must be explicitly prevented from having any part in government!

If anybody can agree with the above go slam your head into a wall for a few hours please, your part of the problem.

>> ^budzos:
QuantumMushroom has either got to be a troll or a sock puppet. Nobody can be that fucking dense.


It takes all kinds. Sometimes it's good to step back and see the other side. Communist atheists have killed a lot of people (though not as much as religion I think)and this nation (the anglo one that placed themselves here) was almost entirely Christian, so in a way, you could almost say it was founded as a Christian nation. It's just that they decided to keep church and state separate(thankfully). It could even be argued however that most of them only said they were Christian to avoid retribution. It could also be argued that most of the atheist communists were also trying to avoid retribution. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know about every single one of them will we?

Let QM get on your nerves. That's good. Consider it as him helping you with your continuing education. It's good to know what you're talking about and although it can be infuriating, at least it helps you take into consideration what you truly believe. I think he really believes what he's saying. (for the most part anyway)

At least it's not like all of us Sifters are going to start killing each other or anything.

>> ^HenningKO:
If anything, America was founded agnostic. The only reason any of our founding articles use the word "creator" is that evolution hadn't been invented yet. Creation was the best option back then. I bet Washington, Jefferson and that lot would've loved the idea though. They would've seen their Revolution as the survival of the fittest political system.

Evolution wasn't invented, it's just the way things are. I think you meant to say that we hadn't discovered the workings of evolution.



>> ^Norsuelefantti:
Does Obama support separation of curch and state? Prolly not, it would be a bad campaing move...

I believe Obama gets it. I was just reading an article yesterday about his religious views on USA Today. The article is from July 2006.

"For one, the separation of church and state in America has preserved not only our democracy but also the robustness of our religious practice. After all, during our founding, it was not the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of this separation; it was the persecuted religious minorities concerned that any state-sponsored religion might hinder their ability to practice their faith.

This separation is critical to our form of government because in the end, democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. If I am opposed to abortion for religious reasons but seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all."

"Communist atheists have killed a lot of people."

I don't care how measured the rest of the comment is. To even repeat something like this is so fucking retarded I just want to scream "FUCK YOU RETARD" at you (yes you Ryjkyj). Nobody was ever killed in the name of atheism. You may as well say "air-breathing communisists have killed a lot of people" and then try and say there is some connection between breathing air and being immoral.

>> ^budzos:
"Communist atheists have killed a lot of people."
I don't care how measured the rest of the comment is. To even repeat something like this is so fucking retarded I just want to scream "FUCK YOU RETARD" at you (yes you Ryjkyj). Nobody was ever killed in the name of atheism. You may as well say "air-breathing communisists have killed a lot of people" and then try and say there is some connection between breathing air and being immoral.



You are part of the problem. History doesn't specifically show that any given religious belief system or lack there of leads to war or genocide. It shows that fanatical intolerance of other people's beliefs, or lack there of, almost inevitably does. Claims that people following any particular belief(or lack there of) are immune to repeating such atrocities is repeatedly shown to create fanatical intolerance. The moment you start saying your belief system, or lack there of, is completely unique and no adherents of it could possibly repeat the atrocities of history, you're part of the problem.

Link is broken

*dead

Invocations (dead) cannot be called by justinianrex because justinianrex is not privileged - sorry.

It's not dead... retarded, but not dead.

Certainly belongs in *fear.

Adding video to channels (Fear) - requested by blankfist.

>> ^bcglorf:
Hard to believe McCain doesn't realize that separation of church and state proves America was founded by atheists, on atheist beliefs and that only atheists should be considered fit to be president. Separation of church and state means that anything tied to religious belief must be explicitly prevented from having any part in government!
If anybody can agree with the above go slam your head into a wall for a few hours please, your part of the problem.


You sure know how to beat the hell out of a straw man, but sorry -- the rational argument man is over yonder.

You people terrify the shit out of me.

: )

Anyhow, I'll just mosie along to the next post, oh...
whats this...

a history book?
From which I can planely see that
western civilisation has christianity at it roots...

whoops!


That said, I'm sort of marxist (in the oeconomic aspect at least), so I have my...
"Get out of the clutches of rabbid liberals for free" - card

(and the "walk right into religious zealots brandishing bibliae"... card, also)

: )

My favorite videos tend to religious/political in nature not because I subscribe to any one belief but rather because of the nature of discussion it brings out in the community.
Personally, I believe part of two statements, first, that separation of Church and State was done primarily by Christians but different Christians; Catholics and Protestants,etc, who as was pointed out by jimnms, er, Obama that that part was added to avoid persecution by any state sponsored religion. I also believe that the atheists of the day, Jefferson most predominantly, probably had a big hand in this as well for the same reason.

>> ^budzos:
"Communist atheists have killed a lot of people."
I don't care how measured the rest of the comment is. To even repeat something like this is so fucking retarded I just want to scream "FUCK YOU RETARD" at you (yes you Ryjkyj). Nobody was ever killed in the name of atheism. You may as well say "air-breathing communisists have killed a lot of people" and then try and say there is some connection between breathing air and being immoral.


You just repeated it.

Yeah sorry I screwed up the reading of your post a little bit.

What the fuck is he talking about, can the sift give me anymore reason to hate McCain even more?

>> ^nibiyabi:
>> ^bcglorf:
Hard to believe McCain doesn't realize that separation of church and state proves America was founded by atheists, on atheist beliefs and that only atheists should be considered fit to be president. Separation of church and state means that anything tied to religious belief must be explicitly prevented from having any part in government!
If anybody can agree with the above go slam your head into a wall for a few hours please, your part of the problem.

You sure know how to beat the hell out of a straw man, but sorry -- the rational argument man is over yonder.


Thanks for iterating my point. The entire thread to that point had been the beating of the straw man setup by the heavily edited video. I mean, cutting out clips in mid-sentence? Give me a break! Sorry, but when you edit out that much context your just setting up a straw man for people to bash, as the thread happily jumped in to do. If you want rational argument, go find the unedited clip and post that. As it is, I'll settle for pointing out the idiocy of the situation.

^I wasn't even talking about the video, if you noticed. Who here said that "only atheists should be considered fit to be president"?

No it wasn't. Please give this guy a history book, it's pathetic.

>> ^nibiyabi:
^I wasn't even talking about the video, if you noticed. Who here said that "only atheists should be considered fit to be president"?


Nobody, as you observed before and I just agreed, I was setting up a straw man. I was setting it up to contrast against the straw man the video sets up for McCain's position by editing out half of what McCain really said. From the video summary:
"John McCain apparently believes that only someone with his particular faith is suitable to be president."

He never says that in the clip, and the only sentence he says that even approximates it is cut up mid-sentence!

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War.
---source: The US Treasury Department http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html

LEARN YOUR GOD DAMNED HISTORY BEFORE YOU START PUSHING YOUR RELIGION ON ME JOHN MCCAIN!!

>> ^JiggaJonson:
The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War.
---source: The US Treasury Department http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.ht
ml
LEARN YOUR GOD DAMNED HISTORY BEFORE YOU START PUSHING YOUR RELIGION ON ME JOHN MCCAIN!!


That's right, it's Yankee's like him that came in and pushed their religion on the south by taking away their slaves and putting "IN GOD WE TRUST" on our currency. The yanks are a bunch of evil religion pushing bigots!(j/k)

Seriously, isn't it disingenuous to say the civil war wasn't a vital part of the foundation of the US? Most people do consider the abolition of slavery to be a cornerstone of the country, and that came about through the civil war.

Atheists worldwide have murdered over 100 million people. Since you're going to lump all religious folks together, don't y'all deserve to be thrown in with other atheists?

Such an old, tired, disproven argument.

"Not hardly."

Name one -- just one -- violent act committed in the name of atheism.

"In the name of" implies that atheism is some sort of organized force unto itself. While there are Christian communists, the Soviets were officially atheists and warred openly against religion and the religious. Atheism "the fad" is an empty glass: its absence of morality isn't displaced when something awful like communism is poured in.

*crickets nodding*

Now try to think of a few that were committed in the name of some deity -- you'd probably already come up with a dozen examples before you even finished reading the question.

Such an old, tired, argument indeed. I dare you to look around at all the goodness inspired by religious belief, including the religious beliefs that inspired many great scientists.

*crickets breaking for dinner*

And, by the way, this country was founded largely by those who considered themselves skeptical of religion. Show me one Judeo-Christian reference in the Constitution. One.

*crickets burping*

There are thousands if not millions of religious people who are also skeptics to a degree. So what? You can argue technicalities about the letter of the law...because of the American separation of church and state both reaped the best from the other. America and her people--still the great majority--are intertwined with the Christian faith. I say this not as a Christian, but as an observer of history.

I used to be an atheist so I know all about the power gleaned from being better/smarter than those "religious fools." I also know atheists are likely unhappier then believers.

I'm not your enemy. A sincere atheist probably thinks more about God-who-doesn't-exist than the lukewarm religionists. So we'll have to agree to disagree. Like always.

----------------------------

The Soviet Union was atheistic because it wanted to concrete power upon itself not to anyone else including God.

Well, isn't that what this modern athiest fad is claiming? That THEY and they alone are the arbiters of right and wrong because there is no Higher Power?

Not because they didn't like theology or anything, its about power and control of it. They sought absolute power.

So does socialism. What's the difference?

QM You used to be pretty good at this.

No one is converting anyone to atheism or vice versa. While both sides need the other for healthy resistance, I see no reason to flex. Do you?


PS to budzos. Not all communists are atheists, but the ones that murdered 100 million people were. There was nothing atheism offered that said to the killers, "Hey, this is wrong." Something to ponder.

>>Nibiyabi
Name one -- just one -- violent act committed in the name of atheism.
**crickets**


The crickets you are hearing are playing over the voices of the thousands of priests killed during the French Revolution in the name of atheism.

Edumify yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianisation_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

Oh, and to poster #1: Jefferson wasn't an agnostic -- some call him a Deist, but I think he was his own blend of Christian. He made his own Bible by cutting out the parts that he thought were wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, ..., and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.'

... sounds to me like they're praying for blessings from the Goddess Liberty ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Liberty

>> ^BillOreilly:
He's a great man, this video proves it.
America wasn't founded muslim, atheist, hindu, etc..., so ya'll have no argument here. Try again, kids.


you can't be serious...

or should i say, you can't be logical...

>> ^quantumushroom:
hehehehe...I love your thick ignorance. ---No need to get gay, comrade.

Atheists worldwide have murdered over 100 million people. Since you're going to lump all religious folks together, don't y'all deserve to be thrown in with other atheists?


lol. the difference between you and atheists is we atheists don't worship other atheists who were murders. you christians worship a god who commanded his followers to murder and slaughter, and whose followers have not only murdered people indiscriminately and cruelly for 4000 years, but are also responsible for at least 400 years of stunted scientific growth.

keep praising your zombie. seriously. it's funny.

>> ^HenningKO:
I would argue the communist states of yesterday and today more closely resemble Fascism in practice than formal communism. But whatever... that was Dictators, Communists and Fascists, not Atheists. The relevant factor is utter submission to the will of the state, not godlessness.


more importantly, nothing in this discussion does anything but distract from the fact that our country wasn't founded as a christian nation. that's not in the constitution, and most of the founders were deists. of course, that's what he meant to do... edit: sorry, missed that last line.

>> ^jimnms:
This man should not qualify to be president when he clearly doesn't even know the history of his own country.


Unfortunately, he knows exactly what he's doing. You saw that video awhile back where the reporter catches him about his ignorance on Iraq? Well, guess what - he's still going. They don't care what the actual truth is, they're repeating what they want you to believe until you damn well believe it. Unfortunately, this works on morons.

Some of them inhabit this comment block.

I think we have an unclosed Italics code somewhere up there.
I will try closing it.

I think McCain is drifting from "Replician Presidential Candidate" slowly to "Meme"

>> ^ShakaUVM:
>>Nibiyabi
Name one -- just one -- violent act committed in the name of atheism.
crickets

The crickets you are hearing are playing over the voices of the thousands of priests killed during the French Revolution in the name of atheism.
Edumify yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianisation_of_Franc
e_during_the_French_Revolution


Much like the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, these people had replaced conventional religion with an atheistic-only-in-name substitute -- they called themselves the "Cult of Reason" for crying out loud. They worshiped the "Goddess of Reason" and they had "Temples of Reason". They don't sound very "reasonable" to me.

Thanks for pointing out that little bit of history ShakaUVM! Unfortunately for your argument, it's pretty clear that the short-lived Cult of Reason was purely a reaction against the nobility that dominated the Catholic Church in France at the time. Though the killings may have been committed in the name of atheism, they were really motivated by the Revolution.

On the other hand, you could say the same thing about the atrocities committed in the name of religion. It was very unlikely that religion was the true motivator, but you cannot argue that it is an enabler.

So if you want to argue about who has killed more people throughout history, religion or atheism, it's pretty clear which one has enabled more massacres.

Unfortunately for your argument, it's pretty clear that the short-lived Cult of Reason was purely a reaction against the nobility that dominated the Catholic Church in France at the time

It was explicitly atheistic, I don't know how much more you can want. They swept away religion, replaced it with atheism, and killed the clerics in the name of reason. This secular nature was, in my mind, the most important difference between the American and French revolutions; besides this critical component, they stemmed from Enlightenment philosophy.

So if you want to argue about who has killed more people throughout history, religion or atheism, it's pretty clear which one has enabled more massacres.

We're talking atheism, here, right?

You are part of the problem. History doesn't specifically show that any given religious belief system or lack there of leads to war or genocide. It shows that fanatical intolerance of other people's beliefs, or lack there of, almost inevitably does. Claims that people following any particular belief(or lack there of) are immune to repeating such atrocities is repeatedly shown to create fanatical intolerance. The moment you start saying your belief system, or lack there of, is completely unique and no adherents of it could possibly repeat the atrocities of history, you're part of the problem.

I didn't say that at all. Where the hell did I say that? All I said is atheists never got together and killed in the name of Atheism. I think this word "atheist" confuses a lot of people. It denotes a non-belief, that's all. Not believing in something does not make you part of a group or alliance with others in the way believing in something does. My comment was pointing out how moronic it is to even talk about "atheists" as a group, because they are not one.

I didn't say that at all. Where the hell did I say that? All I said is atheists never got together and killed in the name of Atheism. I think this word "atheist" confuses a lot of people. It denotes a non-belief, that's all. Not believing in something does not make you part of a group or alliance with others in the way believing in something does. My comment was pointing out how moronic it is to even talk about "atheists" as a group, because they are not one.

History doesn't show people killing each other in the name of religion either. It shows them killing each other for having a different religion than each other. That includes people with a lack of any belief killing those who did. You are suggesting that a non-belief would prevent a repeat of the atrocities of history. I would insist that is part of the problem. The core of the problems from history hasn't been any particular belief or lack of belief but an intolerance for other peoples beliefs or lack of beliefs. Spouting none sense about how people have only killed in the name of religion, but never for a lack of belief in it, demonstrates ignorance or an intolerant attitude. The beauty of separation of church and state is that it demands tolerance of different beliefs, not an absence of any beliefs within the state.

>> ^nibiyabi:
^I wasn't even talking about the video, if you noticed. Who here said that "only atheists should be considered fit to be president"?


I do.

*dead

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