I love the perplexed look/tone in Dave Silverman's face/voice when he repeats

"Tide goes in, tide goes out????"

*quality rationality vs jackassery

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by JiggaJonson.

my brain hurts now, thank you

Did he say, he couldn't explain the tides?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHvBUDk7kkQ

I'm pretty sure I learned about the tide going in and out (and what causes it) in grade school.... has something changed since then that I'm not aware of?

Fucking moon, how does it work?

Moon, HUH, YEAH
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all

Maybe Bill was trying to set him up with the gravity trap.... "so the moon makes the tides?... and how does it do that, with an invisible force?" BOOM headshot.

Trying to disprove religion factually on the O'Reilly Factor let alone on any TV program is pointless and gets you nowhere. Something as simple as "why do you worship a god that kills children to punish their parents, Bill?" or "do you believe in stoning as punishment?" would have worked much better.

The guest claimed that the billboards are just a statement of fact. He should have known by then that Fox finds facts to be insulting. Bill O' is on Fox, therefore Bill O' is insulted.

Why do people go on this show?

That's no moon... oh wait.
>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Fucking moon, how does it work?

http://www.atheists.org/

Calling all religions scams is kinda harsh and very negative. These atheist groups are the worst and they act just as silly as the religious groups they oppose.

"YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN SOMETHING, THEREFORE GOD EXISTS."

Worst fucking argument EVER. I'd like to see O'Reilly argue something where an off-camera committee of people get to shock him if 75% of them decide he's using hyperbole or some logical fallacy. I'd pay to see that.

Also, this Atheist organization should get someone to head it who won't make a fool of himself on TV. This guy is the Jwoww of Atheists.

I'm not sure why "true" (or "fact") and "insulting" are orthogonal. I might call you ugly, and it might be true, but it is still insulting. Calling religions a scam is insulting to the followers, as it makes them fools. Whether it is true or not does not decrease the insult.

It doesn't look like he's trying to convert any true believers, but instead showing "closet atheists" that their views are more common and reasonable than they may currently think.

I wouldn't call religion a scam. Sure, there are individuals that use religion to scam people, but on the whole, I think most of the people who promote and participate in religion actually believe in it. It's not a scam, it's mythology. >> ^campionidelmondo:

Calling all religions scams is kinda harsh and very negative.

Why didn't they guy answer 'the moon controls the tides' instead of 'I don't know.' That just pushes O'Reilly farther.

I agree with the guy that there are likely 'far' more atheists than that one poll suggests. They've just bent to pressure to go to church and sit in a pew and listen to a guy speak a bunch of nonsense and then write them a check. Especially people in the bible belt, if you don't go to church you are an outcast. If you say your an atheist your run out of town!

I don't personally think religion is a scam. I think it's an extremely outdated way to explain our world and why things happen. It clashes so often with science because science has explained with fact what religion has attempted to explain in the past with myth and story. Because of this religion in the US and around the world has been slowly fading since the sixties and especially since the 80s (I remember as a child in the early 80's my local churches were filled to the brim, today all but a few in my county have less than 20 people and on off-seasons (the summer) rarely have more than 5-10 parishioners.

Religion is outdated and it's not making their leaders remotely as much money (in most of the country) as it used to. So main-stream religion has begun to fight back. To them, there is a war going on. To the rest of the world, we are just waiting for it to become such a small minority we don't have to deal with it on a daily basis.

Frankly if I'd have grown up in the bible belt I would have killed myself by now.

>> ^Duckman33:
I'm pretty sure I learned about the tide going in and out (and what causes it) in grade school.... has something changed since then that I'm not aware of?


Yes. The christian right wing in the US has taken their children out of school and begun teaching them at home because of all the "anti-christian" science that threatens to mislead their children. And of course, the opportunity to restore religion into every aspect of the learning experience. You know, like it used to be before the lib'rals started changing everything.

It's going to get real exciting when all these kids studying "Math from the Bible" start voting.

O'Reilley baited him from the first question, and it was over before it started. The spokesperson for an antagonistic group like that should be someone who can keep calm, not get defensive, stick to his three talking points and divert everything Bill says towards one of them without giving him the chance to argue. What a waste of a publicity opportunity. The only thing they talked about the entire interview was whether "scam" was an insult or not. After this interview, I certainly still have no idea why this groups exists, what their goals are, and if there even was a thought-out goal for this campaign.

I'm an atheist and I hate O'Reilley, but I thought it was an insult to religious people to say it's a scam. It's a stupid campaign if it's supposed to get atheists out of the pews because it's raised the cost of leaving. Now, to get out, not only will these people have to confront their families and social groups, change their public identity, and go through whatever other anticipated stress is preventing them from just leaving, but now they'll also have to admit to giving their lives over to a scam. In other words, this campaign just made it more attractive to stay in the church, and perhaps even become more militant about it.

Let me play devil's God's advocate here for a moment, and try to properly state the argument BillO only hints at.

Yes, science can predict that fluid on the Earth's surface will move in tides due to a massive object orbiting the Earth. But that's just a particularly astute observation about what is happening, a divination of some of the "code" that governs the way things work in the universe. It doesn't tell us anything about why the code is what it is, or why it's executing, or even really how it is that time breathes fire into the equations, and makes events happen.

If you think about it, it really is a marvel that all the molecules in the ocean move on their own, according to one set of universal laws of movement, without any deviation. It would take centuries of computer time to simulate the motion of every particle in the ocean for just a second, and yet it happens on its own second after second for billions of years. And never once is there a mistake -- the tides go out, and come in like clockwork, and even more amazingly, the molecules all flawlessly follow the laws of physics, without fail.

Whatever this thing is that we're all inside, it does seem to be a machine of almost incomprehensible perfection. It just works, day in, and day out, producing more miracles than we can count in every second...

Mind you, even when I do it justice, the argument still has the same yawning logical flaw. It's just a little easier to miss when you pretty it up properly.

The really sad thing is, there are people sitting at home in front of their TV screens thinking: "That's right Bill you show em."

And I am 95% certain that Bill knows it's a scam and I'm 100% certain he's in it for the money.

Light is invisible, so how can you see things?

Yeah... pretty silly campaign.

Than again... maybe the sillier/more offensive the better...


Q:"Why do bad things happen to good people?"

A:"Because God hates fags"

-this billboard brought to you by some annoying atheist group-

>> ^Yogi:

Why do people go on this show?


Exposure. Bill might be a dunce and a blowhard, but he's got one of the largest audiences in tvland. They also happen to consist of exactly the audience AA wants to reach. There's no reason to preach to the choir.

>> ^NetRunner:

Let me play devil's God's advocate here for a moment, and try to properly state the argument BillO only hints at.
Yes, science can predict that fluid on the Earth's surface will move in tides due to a massive object orbiting the Earth. But that's just a particularly astute observation about what is happening, a divination of some of the "code" that governs the way things work in the universe. It doesn't tell us anything about why the code is what it is, or why it's executing, or even really how it is that time breathes fire into the equations, and makes events happen.
If you think about it, it really is a marvel that all the molecules in the ocean move on their own, according to one set of universal laws of movement, without any deviation. It would take centuries of computer time to simulate the motion of every particle in the ocean for just a second, and yet it happens on its own second after second for billions of years. And never once is there a mistake -- the tides go out, and come in like clockwork, and even more amazingly, the molecules all flawlessly follow the laws of physics, without fail.
Whatever this thing is that we're all inside, it does seem to be a machine of almost incomprehensible perfection. It just works, day in, and day out, producing more miracles than we can count in every second...
Mind you, even when I do it justice, the argument still has the same yawning logical flaw. It's just a little easier to miss when you pretty it up properly.


hold your head in the tide for 20mins... marvel at the perfection of a perfect machine that destroys it's own components?

the point is, lack of knowledge isn't a defense... someone with the knowledge can always back a religious person into the "God works in mysterious ways corner"

'and beyond the logical flaws, there's scientific flaws... like molecules flawlessly following the laws of physics... but anyhoos

>> ^bamdrew:

Yeah... pretty silly campaign.
Than again... maybe the sillier/more offensive the better...

Q:"Why do bad things happen to good people?"
A:"Because God hates fags"
-this billboard brought to you by some annoying atheist group-


this made me laugh, sorta like the joke:

What did the deaf, dumb, blind, mute boy get for Christmas?
Cancer

"Fucking gravity, how does that work?
I don't wanna talk to a scientist, yall motherfuckers lyin and getting me pissed." -- Bill O'Reilly

>> ^jwray:

"Fucking gravity, how does that work?
I don't wanna talk to a scientist, yall motherfuckers lyin and getting me pissed." -- Bill O'Reilly

it's actually "Fuckin' Magnets, How Do They Work?"

fill in the blanks, how do they work?

Fucking religion, how does it work?


It scams you.

Even as an atheist, i actually have to agree with Bill here. Those billboards are very insulting.

Is it possible to ask Dave Silverman to adopt af different title? "Basher of Religious Befliefs"? If his goal really is to promote atheism, I really hope he would stop doing it by insulting people. That doesn't help anyone, it just digs the trench deeper.

I agree. All he's really doing is promoting a variation of the - Can't you feel god's presence in the trees and the Earth? - argument.>> ^Mysling:

Even as an atheist, i actually have to agree with Bill here. Those billboards are very insulting.
Is it possible to ask Dave Silverman to adopt af different title? "Basher of Religious Befliefs"? If his goal really is to promote atheism, I really hope he would stop doing it by insulting people. That doesn't help anyone, it just digs the trench deeper.

"Promoting atheism" is the same as demolishing theism. I don't promote "non-delusions" either, I break delusions.

>> ^Mysling:

Even as an atheist, i actually have to agree with Bill here. Those billboards are very insulting.
Is it possible to ask Dave Silverman to adopt af different title? "Basher of Religious Befliefs"? If his goal really is to promote atheism, I really hope he would stop doing it by insulting people. That doesn't help anyone, it just digs the trench deeper.

>> ^NetRunner:
And never once is there a mistake -- the tides go out, and come in like clockwork, and even more amazingly, the molecules all flawlessly follow the laws of physics, without fail.

That isn't completely true. On the atomic level plenty of "mistakes" happen that aren't noticeable on a larger scale. Heat transfers from cold molecules to hotter ones, entropy spontaneously decreases, and particles appear/disappear at random. All we normally see are what most of them are doing, and that gives the illusion that all of the particles agree.

On the larger scale, tides are not always consistent. Oceans have been known to recede significantly when they should be at high tide. That could be seen as a pretty big "miscommunication", though if you witness it while on the beach then you might want to run towards the highest elevation available. ;-)

>> ^gwiz665:

"Promoting atheism" is the same as demolishing theism. I don't promote "non-delusions" either, I break delusions.


I just don't see what is accomplished by the antagonistic tone. "Demolish" is actually a very good example of this. As a lot of people have already mentioned in this thread, all that is achieved by insulting religious beliefs in this way, is digging a deeper trench between religious people and atheists. A trench which is more difficult to cross.

If people want to use these arguments, they are ofcourse welcome to. But I believe they are very wrong if they think they are actually preaching to closet atheists with this rhetoric. They are preaching to their own, already out, choir.

You never get a persons ear by insulting them first.

>> ^Psychologic:

>> ^NetRunner:
And never once is there a mistake -- the tides go out, and come in like clockwork, and even more amazingly, the molecules all flawlessly follow the laws of physics, without fail.
That isn't completely true. On the atomic level plenty of "mistakes" happen that aren't noticeable on a larger scale. Heat transfers from cold molecules to hotter ones, entropy spontaneously decreases, and particles appear/disappear at random. All we normally see are what most of them are doing, and that gives the illusion that all of the particles agree.
On the larger scale, tides are not always consistent. Oceans have been known to recede significantly when they should be at high tide. That could be seen as a pretty big "miscommunication", though if you witness it while on the beach then you might want to run towards the highest elevation available. ;-)


But those are all "mistakes" caused by gaps in our understanding, not the universe ceasing to function according to its laws.

Mysling, when you believe that good people are being intentionally mislead and exploited, it does bring out a certain indignation. That is why 'scam' is both a powerful and a correct word to use here. When someone is swindled by a snake oil salesman, the compassionate thing to do is to expose him and condemn his actions. You don't try and reach a middle ground with the charlatan. This is why I admire the career's of men like James Randi and Ben Goldacre. The only distinctions between psudo-science, supernatural claims and religion is the level of harm and the demand on the victim.

But I think you also make an excellent point; offending people is often the quickest way to ensure they won't listen to you. I don't know what is the best way to be persuasive with someone who disagrees with you.

>> ^NetRunner:

Let me play devil's God's advocate here for a moment, and try to properly state the argument BillO only hints at.
Yes, science can predict that fluid on the Earth's surface will move in tides due to a massive object orbiting the Earth. But that's just a particularly astute observation about what is happening, a divination of some of the "code" that governs the way things work in the universe. It doesn't tell us anything about why the code is what it is, or why it's executing, or even really how it is that time breathes fire into the equations, and makes events happen.
If you think about it, it really is a marvel that all the molecules in the ocean move on their own, according to one set of universal laws of movement, without any deviation. It would take centuries of computer time to simulate the motion of every particle in the ocean for just a second, and yet it happens on its own second after second for billions of years. And never once is there a mistake -- the tides go out, and come in like clockwork, and even more amazingly, the molecules all flawlessly follow the laws of physics, without fail.
Whatever this thing is that we're all inside, it does seem to be a machine of almost incomprehensible perfection. It just works, day in, and day out, producing more miracles than we can count in every second...
Mind you, even when I do it justice, the argument still has the same yawning logical flaw. It's just a little easier to miss when you pretty it up properly.


The answer is: We're all in a computer.

Bill O'Reilly: Interview Tech 101 - ask a question, THEN LET THE INTERVIEWEE FUCKING ANSWER IT

@Myslig you are assuming the targeted audience is the religious. I think these billboards are for closet-atheists to let them know it's okay to question religion openly. Once a critical mass has been built we can get rid of the stigma of being an atheist and have more intelligent discussions about religious beliefs.

>> ^Mysling:

Even as an atheist, i actually have to agree with Bill here. Those billboards are very insulting.
Is it possible to ask Dave Silverman to adopt af different title? "Basher of Religious Befliefs"? If his goal really is to promote atheism, I really hope he would stop doing it by insulting people. That doesn't help anyone, it just digs the trench deeper.

>> ^NetRunner:

But those are all "mistakes" caused by gaps in our understanding, not the universe ceasing to function according to its laws.

Well, as far as we know anyway. =)

But as far as the tides, Bill was wrong on two counts. He basically said "they're consistent, and we don't know why", where the truth is "they aren't consistent, and we do know why".

http://www.losingmyreligion.com