See ya Choggs. Thanks for all the great Sifts.

See you around Choggie. Send me a PM sometime

Oh, so choggie didn't know that burdturgler was black and that he might not like being not-so-slyly compared to a monkey? Color me completely fucking incredulous.

For a guy who doesn't have racism in his OPERATING MANUAL, he sure had a funny way of showing it.

And for those of you who think BT or anyone else is being over-sensitive, when you've been on the receiving end of his private hate comments or emails, talk to me. Until then, give me a fucking break. Oh, and I have talked to him on the phone too. One time was pleasant (when I got along with him), and the other was the opposite (when I had had enough of him). So don't think that you know him better than the rest of us simply because you like him and some of us don't.

The guy pushed and pushed and pushed and fucking pushed, yet some of you still think he's a great man. Fine, but don't expect all of us to revere his hateful ass like you do.

He had some good videos, but most were not exceptional, in my opinion. So giving him a pass because of his video selections isn't going to resonate with me either.

I didn't like that he was allowed to return, but did my best to ignore him when he came back. And no, I didn't take a leave of absence because of him. I had other shit going on in my life - 'nuff said about that. But when he continues to antagonize so many people, then he's just a troll. Yes, a TROLL. And who needs 'em?

Yours truly,

Kronospunkass

I only experienced Choggie v2, I wasn't around for his first stay with VS. I don't like to see anyone gloat on his loss (not directing that at kronosposeidon), but he seals his own fate when he reacts harshly to downvotes of his own comments / videos. I can respect his opinion and downvotes when he's not over reacting himself at criticism.

It's one thing to have a different opinion then everyone else, it's another when you act like you're automatically right. That's just closed minded on the other side of the spectrum.

-edit: To his credit, I think many times he acted as he did to attempt to rattle people's cages in a good way - get them to "wake up" (in his words) and see things differently, but it seems he crosses too many lines at times too.

Meh, I'm rambling.. thanks for the wild west times, Choggie...

There he goes again, leaving drama in his wake! Smooth sailing, chog.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:

For a guy who doesn't have racism in his OPERATING MANUAL, he sure had a funny way of showing it.

That's a troll, admittedly. Is that when you split the sift because someone said "Lynch"? There are real racists out there and Choggie isn't one of them. He can probably see past skin better than anyone else. What he hates and attacks is much deeper than skin, what most people hide on the inside, and that's what scares you guys most.

Go fight real discrimination, and stop PC policing Videosift by making up bogeymen. There is no racism here than I can detect. Honestly it's worse than The Pinky with her feminism bullshit, except she didn't have anyone banned. People fought and died and marched for Civil Rights so we can be rid of this nonsense, and you are moving us backwards by creating a shitstorm over a word.

I'm not even convinced that Burd has skin that's any darker than anyone else, and I asked him. If he isn't, then who's the REAL troll, eh?

Take that, Cracker.

^That troll was choggie, schmawy. And what happened to the guy who said:

I tend to think of people who behave badly on the internet the same way I think of rude drivers. They are simple and unclassy, self centered and pathetic when they feel safe. Makes us all look bad.

Nope, he's a real racist. That doesn't mean he isn't fun to have around, or that you shouldn't be friends with him, or that he is an overall bad human being, but he does have a long history of downvoting and leaving negative comments on videos about racism - which is a big tell. If you want me to take the time to paint a more in depth analysis of this for you, I'd be happy to, just to show that I'm not being spiteful or flip.

Half of me likes choggie, the other half thinks he's an insecure, abusive, sex deprived asshole with unusually good taste in music.

Either way, Mr. Choggie, you've got some serious demons that you seem to be too self absorbed to notice. You had an opportunity to get your shit together and you blew it. Take it like a man.
>> ^schmawy:

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
For a guy who doesn't have racism in his OPERATING MANUAL, he sure had a funny way of showi
ng it.
That's a troll, admittedly. Is that when you split the sift because someone said "Lynch"? There are real racists out there and Choggie isn't one of them. He can probably see past skin better than anyone else. What he hates and attacks is much deeper than skin, what most people hide on the inside, and that's what scares you guys most.

No, I am not a sycophant for Choggie as so many allege. and it has become clear to me that he shouldn't be here, and I've chastised him behavior many, many, times. Now it's your turn.

I do agree with his perception of the small retinue of ultra PC alpha male thought police who get their rocks of by being superficially righteous and show more clear disdain for diversity of thought than anyone on the site. Burdturgler actually said "If i could vote X off the site I would". I think that's disgusting and show's who's really unable to be tolerant.

Choggie often used the term "passive aggressive", and I think that for the most part is correct. The small contingency of self-satisfied and judgmental members who use their influence to control content and members disgust me. And he complained about "copypasta" and I see why now, because the first thing you do is run a search. Slimy as a fucking lawyer or angry girlfriend.

Choggie did boatloads to celebrate black culture. You and your crew are so eager to prove how enlightened you are, how right you are, you fly into a tizzy over the slightest invocation of race. Who called on you to perform this duty? Who told you we needed it? Race is only an issue when you whiteys start borrowing grief from our black brothers. Do you think they want your help? Do you really think someone saying "nigger" "spook" or "monkey" is going to cause the Sift to collapse? Jesus Christ. Take it somewhere else.

"Love all races be they, idiots, assholes, or the insane, they all look alike to me...."

^Don't have the time right now, but briefly: The term 'politically correct' is a negative sounding euphemism for treating others with respect. The term has been popularized by the political right, whom find it easier to justify being politically incorrect than to being prejudiced. This is part of a larger effort to 'frame' issues in a way that suits their beliefs, like making health care into Obamacare or Hillarycare, or the estate tax into a 'death' tax. They are fairly brilliant in setting up these kinds of manipulations.

'Thought police' is another term used by these same folks, usually on the topic of 'hate crime', because they presumably think that criticizing others for being abusive is somehow bad.

Touchy issues both, and I don't have time to continue at the moment... and I don't mean to hijack this topic, but I don't like to let things like this go unaddressed.

Are you really accusing me of getting my rocks off and lording my morality over you? I sure hope not.

Yes, I am. You've trolled Freepers, right? I think there's a lot of smug satisfaction and feelings of superiority that comes from being on the political left, to the point where understanding ceases and hatred starts. You see it on the Sift all the time.

"The small contingency of self-satisfied and judgmental members..."

"You and your crew..."

Are you done making sweeping generalizations yet, or am I just passive-aggressively using copy-pasta like a slimy fucking lawyer/angry girlfriend?

Look, you wrote what I quoted, and you wrote it just recently too. I didn't have to run a search, because what you said is still on page one of Sift Talk, for Christ's sake. Should I not try to sway your opinion with your own words?

Look, I understand that you're angry right now, but are you going to continue down this road? Really!? Are you saying that I should I not get mad when someone writes racist shit here because I'm a whitey? Should I adopt a not 'not my problem' approach because it doesn't directly involve me individually? Sorry, but it ain't going to happen. Tough shit if you don't like it. View it as a PC conspiracy if you want. Or tell everyone I'm mad with power. That must have been why I was gone for 3 months recently, because I was SO consumed with throwing my weight around here, right?

Look dude, you can view me as the enemy if you want. OR, you can just view me as a guy who's glad choggie's gone. That doesn't mean you have to demonize me, or dislike me in general. We can still be friends. But if you really want to remain mad at me forever, I'm not going to waste another word trying to talk you out of it. I've had enough.

It's not just about race issues, it's about one-sidedness, and the deomnizing of any thought that's divergent from modern liberalism. Eventually it gets to the point that I can't tell the difference between the radicals on either end. Choggie was right at times, that there are those here that are as blindered as a Fox news fan, that the level of critical thinking can as weak here as it is at a tea bagger rally.

If someone is divergent enough to be a thorn in everyone's side for long enough, to challenge the popular VS thinking, that member will almost always ultimately be banned. Either he will be forced out or provoked to the point that they hang themselves. This "road" I'm going down and what I'm railing against, which may ultimately end in my own demise, is the single-mindedness of this certain retinue. You don't have the universal support you think you have.

[e:]"The small contingency of self-satisfied and judgmental members..."

"You and your crew..."

You want names? I can provide them, I can point fingers. No. Everybody knows who I'm talking about.

"some folks are simply tunnel-reality cave-dwellers"

Is that a comment about my race? and/or religion, and/or sexual orientation?!!


Best wishes on your path Choggie.

Choggie didn't play the game for long enough. He was on a fine thread. I personally don't believe he's a racist for one minute, but I'd put money down that he knew that comment to burdturgler could be construed as such.

It's almost like you want to get kicked off the site sometimes Choggie, and then sit back and have your allies fight your corner for you. Maybe it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Maybe I'm talking out of my arse...

One thing's for sure, you should totally start your own website

I am disappointed all around. I'm going to miss Choggie if that is that. He's a unique sifter that I appreciate. I wish he'd apologize to BT.

I talk about race because it pisses me off to see the kinds of racism that people are willing to tolerate these days and on this site. You do nothing to help by brushing it aside, and you achieve even less when you preach the gospel of STFU. And why the fuck would I need to be 'called upon' to speak my mind on something I care about?

You say I have no authority, and that no one wants to hear me and that I'm borrowing grief from black brothers? (Wow, did you really just say that? Yikes!) Three intimidating and fallacious arguments that all want me quiet. Why?

Why is it so important to you (and pennypacker and qm) that I shut up on race? You haven't asked me or tried to shame me into not talking about politics, so what's the big deal about race? I'm honestly asking. And why would I need authority? Or your permission? And why would you assume that I speak out solely for the approval of others? And why is it that you think it so wrong for a white guy to stand up for his black brothers? I think you are very, very misguided when you say things like this. I think you should rethink this. I think you should stand up for your black brothers, and they should stand up for you.

As for banning, I don't care. I found his act pretty stale, but it was easy enough to step around. I've got no objections to letting the old coot back in. My point here is not to justify the banning, but just to make it clear that, yes, the dude did have some issues with race, and, no, that kind of shit is not alright, not even if you say it in a cutesy, folksy, eccentric manner. I'm certainly not calling him a hooded, pitchfork wielding klansman - because that kind of overt racism is no longer culturally accepted - if that's what you think. Choggie's racism was less overt than that for sure.

A leading question*: How did the overt racism of yesterday transition into less overt racism of today?? Because people stood up and decided not to tolerate it anymore.

How will the less overt racism of today transition into the even less overt racism of tomorrow? I'll give you three guesses. (hint: same answer as the first question)

What level of racism is acceptable in your eyes?

*the only kind of question a lawyer knows how to ask
>> ^schmawy:

Choggie often used the term "passive aggressive", and I think that for the most part is correct. The small contingency of self-satisfied and judgmental members who use their influence to control content and members disgust me. And he complained about "copypasta" and I see why now, because the first thing you do is run a search. Slimy as a fucking lawyer or angry girlfriend.
Choggie did boatloads to celebrate black culture. You and your crew are so eager to prove how enlightened you are, how right you are, you fly into a tizzy over the slightest invocation of race. Who called on you to perform this duty? Who told you we needed it? Race is only an issue when you whiteys start borrowing grief from our black brothers. Do you think they want your help? Do you really think someone saying "nigger" "spook" or "monkey" is going to cause the Sift to collapse? Jesus Christ. Take it somewhere else.

Busting out the claws I see. I like it. I've got claws too you know, kitty kitty.

I've trolled Freepers.* I've trolled liberals. I like to argue. I like long romantic walks on the beach. I feel satisfied in the conclusions I've come to, which is why I concluded that those conclusions were satisfyingly conclusive in the first place. I assume most people are satisfied with their own political beliefs, because otherwise they would feel the urge to find.... uh.... well... other, more satisfying beliefs. I am mocking you a little bit right now. I like to fuck around and insert humor into serious comments. I do care somewhat about how I fit into your subjective reality, because I like you, but I don't care if you consider me smug. I'm a little high. I am not motivated by the thrill of superiority, I just like to argue, and generally don't get to do it anywhere else but here. I have no respect at all for Bush republicans. I wouldn't call it hate, but reasonable people could disagree. I know I don't have universal support. I don't require universal support to speak my mind. I get notably less support when I speak about race. I'm OK with this.

*edit: truthfully, I didn't troll freepers proper. I trolled both liberal and conservative AOL chat rooms in the early oughties.

>> ^schmawy:

Yes, I am. You've trolled Freepers, right? I think there's a lot of smug satisfaction and feelings of superiority that comes from being on the political left, to the point where understanding ceases and hatred starts. You see it on the Sift all the time.

But when people dig their heels into an agenda of their opinions the room for reconciliation is mute. >> ^geo321:

I am disappointed all around. I'm going to miss Choggie if that is that. He's a unique sifter that I appreciate. I wish he'd apologize to BT.

If there's anybody to be angry at, it should be @choggie for getting his own ass banned, once again. I'm kinda pissed at you, chog.

Choggie is basically Martyring himself.

lately we only hear from KP when he's kicking choggie of the sift. I think he overreacted because of some unresolved personal shit those two have ... I don't believe choggie is racist. so he made another silly remark, so what? he does it all the time, we're used to it. isn't expressing your disdain for his comments enough, you have to kick his ass again? come on, choggie is part of the inventory here - don't do it

Was the comment racially insensitive? If so, then of course that's something Choggie will have to answer for. However, is Choggie a racist for having made a racially insensitive comment? That's a far more complex question than some people here have given it credit for. Had it been anyone else making that comment, I'm sure they'd have been made to apologize for it. After that, the matter would've been closed.

Someone isn't made a racist because of an ill-construed sentence uttered, for a comment in a heated situation nor due to a tactless joke. Instead, the racist holds the belief of the superiority of one race over another.
"Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, although anyone may be discriminated against on an ethnic or cultural basis, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups. "[link]

People who say this is about racism are missing the point entirely. This is all about people getting their knickers in a twist and overreacting. But that seems to be the way things have turned out on this site, which is a shame for the sift in general.

I feel enoch summed it up nicely:
>> ^enoch:

god i love this place.
but i have to say with choggie gone a bit of color just bleached out.
this is some tired ass bullshit.
this site when it first came out had a plethora of different people,ideas,emotions.
i mean talk about DIVERSE..i was mesmerized by this place...and choggie was a huge reason.
now look at it...
feels like twilight..the burnished sun fading over a bland landscape.
you think choggie is the reason so many left?
christ on a fucking stick...
are you serious? is that a serious statement?
ok..
try this.
go to posts two years ago.go ahead..i'll wait.
now..
go check the current top videos on this site.
see anything? notice anything?
it is becoming one big ball of sameness.
as if a giant vanilla cookie cutter was punching out the exact same material.
those people didnt leave because of choggie!
they left because this place started looking like a cheap version of the stepford wives.
they left because of the very thing we are talking about on this very post.
stupid and inane drama based on the most fragile and flimsy of all reasons:
"someone called me a name"
/facepalm...somebody just shoot me in the face.
because here is the cold hard truth kids.
this place was once a vibrant mecca for the most unique,obscure,challenging and original sites to visit.
populated by interesting people with interesting ideas and to watch the disagreements fly put a smile on my face that lasted for HOURS.
now it is slowly becoming an exercise in banality..
un-interesting and un-original.
so clap your hands together for that kids!
you just succeeded in killing originality!
the drama is even boring!
and that my friends..is the fucking cold hard truth..and you helped usher it in.

I've been reading thru these different discussions about Choggie and I really think there's overreacting from both Pro and Anti Choggie supporters. =]

Choggie broke an agreement with Dag not to be a constant prick. - One point green team.

Choggie's comment wasn't inherently racist. (even tho overall, he does seem racially focused & prejudice) - One point blue team.

Yay!Looks like we have a tie!

Which makes all this back & forth (including this comment) amount to lot of pissing in the wind and hoping the other team get some in their face.


In sum:

It's great that chogster had the sensibility to sift a good video but i don't think that's an excuse for being a surly ball-busting instigator.

If the sift seems boring and stagnant, promote more probies.

I bet we have a number of probational members that could adequately fill Sir Choggie's sifting and color commentary gauntlets. (With less vulgarity. That way, we all can have our jabs ..and eat them too =])

I really don't see the big fuse here.

Re-ban his handle. (done) He'll make a new one and be less of prick for a while. Then ban that one when he crosses the line again. And so the cycle of life continues, no?

All I want to say on the matter is in http://wtf.videosift.com/talk/Choggie-kicked-off-the-Sift-again#comment-990706

Fare well somewhere else, choggie.

1. banning people is a terrrrrible idea.
2. choggie is not a racist, he's an envelope pusher with a history against him.
3. i do believe blankfist has been baiting bt with "spook" and "nigger" comments and innuendo for months, as recently as maybe a week ago with his since edited rock n roll nigger sift.
4. this brings us back to banning people is a terrrrrible idea.

I like to believe we're all responsible for our actions here. Some of you treat choggie as if he is in no control over his fingers' desires to express themselves. He was there mentally the entire time. He could have said a lot of things. He could have not said anything. Yet, he chose to say what he said. Something that could be construed as racist. So those of you that are speaking his behalf saying that he didn't mean to be racist are admitting that you believe the alternative; that he's an idiot that can't separate proper from improper forms of criticism. If there's one thing I know about choggie, it's that he's not unintelligent...unintelligible sometimes, but not unintelligent.

As long as he's here, he will do that. And it rubs enough people wrong every time he does, so I've come to the conclusion that he will always make people feel uncomfortable. Some of you may say "well, he was pushing the limits to make you feel uncomfortable and show you your true self" or whatever the f*ck psycho babble that has to be fabricated in order to justify his behavior. Well, this website is #1 a business, and #2 a community, and having him here obviously doesn't allow for a healthy business or community. So sorry, dude, he might be the most enlightened person in the universe, but he's harshin' our collective mellow.

@schmawy, @rasch187, and hell, @enoch too, let's really get down to brass tacks.

You guys are all speaking in generalities about how choggie was single-handedly saving the sift from mediocrity and sameness. Well, it's laid out for you all in the farewell rant of your martyred hero that I am public enemy #1 of the Sift.

Will you take up the torch that's been passed to you as his devout followers? Will do your grave and solemn duty to defend the sift from people like me?

I just want to know, since y'all seem to think he's someone we should all view as a hero for standing up to, well, me, though you can't bring yourself to refer to me by name, even as a passing example.

Your hero wouldn't approve of your cowardice.

Yes, I know I'm stirring up drama, but I'm kinda tired of seeing people make the argument that choggie's ad hominem attacks are all righteous, when more than a few of them have been aimed squarely at me. If you guys think he was right to do so, I want you to address me directly -- tell me that everything choggie said to me was really right, and maybe repeat some of his insults to my face.

If you can't or won't, tell everyone why not. Is it because you're too cowardly to speak the truth to me? Or because you think insulting people you don't really know in that way is wrong, and should be frowned upon in a civilized society?

Inquiring minds want to know.

@NetRunner
I always thought it was the "brass tax"...hmmm

Here's my impression of this room.

>> ^blankfist:

Here's my impression of this room.



I fart in your general direction.

This sift talk is becoming an Irish Wake.

Then where's the booze?

I think you guys need to stop taking the internet so seriously

I suspect this was less about banning choggie for racist comments and more about people who wanted choggie banned presenting his remarks as racist.

I didn't read it as racist... didn't even cross my mind until I noticed choggie was banned and started investigating.

@burdturgler, I like you just fine, but I can't help but notice that since your arrival you've been involved in like 90% of the suspensions/bans/siftquisitions. Either you're The Doctor or you've got a penchant for drama.

Tell that to @dannym3141
>> ^residue:

I think you guys need to stop taking the internet so seriously

netrunner

wow..
no..really.
i am actually at my desk in ..i dont even know what to call it.
ya know netrunner.
i dont know you but i have never had a problem with you OR your posts.
go check and see who voted for them..i'll wait.
but since you called ME to the table..
allow me to retort.
you sir are one presumptuous piece of work.
do you know WHY i didnt use your name in my post?
because it was never directed at you nor intended to be a passive agressive swipe at you.
if i had a problem with YOU specifically..YOU would know about it and can you guess why?
because i am open,direct and most of all honest.
how dare you sir!
how dare you presume to know anything about me based on what?
what exactly do your base your premise on?
my profile?
my comments?
some magical crystal ball?
you dont fucking know me and to TELL ME my intentions and that i dont have the BALLS to confront you up close and personal?
boy..let me tell you somethin.you better check your pussy shit at the door.
i dont play that game.you wanna call me out?
fine.
but you better know what the fuck you are talking about before you do.
and by your comment above you dont know the first thing about me.
and to think i defended your presumptuous ass when talking with the chogster.
well dont i look like a douchebag now.
you just made his case.
choggie my hero?
what the fuck kind of surrealistic dali nonsense is that?
do you think i admired choggies tactics?
i told him all the time that was no way to get people to see a different view.
but..that was his choice and he paid the consequences.
choggie challenged popular and rigid thinking.
he did so by poking and prodding and yes..trolling.
he was colorful and vibrant,original and entertaining.
he made sense some of the time and babbled conspiratorial nonsense the rest..and even that was entertaining.
i was not privy nor did i FUCKING CARE about the two of you and your homoerotic little drama.
choggie pissed off a lot of people.
i may have understood his reasoning why,even agreed with it but i never agreed with his oftimes vitriolic verbosity.
and fuck you for assuming i did netrunner.
pffft..choggie my hero.are you fucking serious?
your post alone is my poster child for the very point i was making.
choggie challenged groupthink.
his tactics sucked balls but his heart was in the right place.
do you see it yet netrunner?
are ya starting to understand just a wee bit?
YOU..sir.thought you were RIGHT.
and convinced of your own intellectual superiority you stepped forward to make a claim.
a claim based on????
nothing.
and now you find yourself reading this and i hope..dear god i hope..you are starting to feel something.
lets call this new feeling "WRONG".
you dont know everything.
your intellect is not the end all-be all.
and sometimes people just step in it..knee-deep in it.
sometimes we are WRONG even though we were so cock sure we were RIGHT.
THIS is the fundamental reason i liked choggie.
he forced people to defend a position that they were so cock sure was RIGHT.
to defend a position we have to think it through and sometimes..not every time..we find the flaw in our own presumption.
and that is how choggie referred to you specifically.
a passive agressive know-it-all presumptuous prick.
now netrunner.
hear me well.
i am mighty pissed off right now.i dont take kindly to people calling me a pussy(you did it nicely.same deal though) but i will get over myself.
your deal is with choggie..not me.
but by your comment you have made a case for what choggie claimed you to be.
prove him wrong netrunner.
because i dont really think that is who you are.i think you assumed too much and too fast and you jumped without thinking.
prove him wrong.

@enoch, I'm just asking a question. From my viewpoint, a lot of choggie's promotion of "diversity" comprised of harassing people who he didn't want around, including me.

You credited him with all the diversity of opinion on the Sift.

I don't think you, schmawy, or rasch187 have problems with me -- it's kinda the premise upon which I wrote the comment. I'm just trying to get people to realize that major endorsements of choggie are going to necessarily be an endorsement of his behavior, or as you put it, his tactics. You can't separate out choggie's mission to bring "diversity" from the methods he used, which included (in part), rude treatment of me on a frequent basis, as well as many others.

If he'd wanted a conversation, I would've gladly obliged him, but he didn't. The only topic of conversation he ever wanted to talk about with me, was me. Not like "hey, I'm kinda curious what led you to believe X", but like "why are you such a fucking moron?" Over, and over, and over again, long past the point where I'd asked him to stop.

People who think he was great for the sift kinda need to understand what he was really doing to people, and put it into perspective.

FWIW, enoch, I did not mean to offend you. Mostly, I was expressing my own offense at such adoration being aimed at choggie's battle against, well, me, and trying to bring you guys some understanding of why I feel that endorsing his "battle against sameness" is to endorse his treatment of me. I don't think that's what you guys mean by it, but I think it's a direct consequence of the thing you're applauding.

Feel free to call me oversensitive, but it is how I feel.

Choggie - Chaotic Evil, Level 18, Gnome Fighter

ok netrunner.
i will take "i didnt mean to offend you" as an apology for calling me,scmawy and rasch passive agressive cowards who refuse to say something to your face.
you really dont have any understanding do you?
sighs..
ok..and i say this with all sincerity and in the most human way.
what was between you and choggie was between you and choggie.same as with krono and others.
it is not only unfair to lump schmawy rasch and i into that polemic but dishonest.
you yourself have stated that all of us dont have a problem with you and vice versa.
well i know i didnt until you called me a pussy.
yet you continue to miss the point.
a point i grow weary of having to make over and over and over due to your prejudices concerning choggie.
i TOTALLY get he was a cock to you..and others.
i am not dismissing that nor am i condoning by my words choggies actions in that regard.
i never have and neither has schmawy nor rasch (not that i have ever seen anyway).
what you failed to realize in my now multiple posts is the truth of what i was speaking and it had only a fraction to do with choggie.
maybe you dont think i am smart enough to make these observations.
maybe just the word "choggie" blinds you to them fueled by your bitter past with him.
i do not know netrunner and that is your path to walk.
what i DO know is that what i was trying and i gather i have failed miserably by yours and others comments,is to reveal to everybody that there is a danger in like-mindedness.
i see so many people berate,me included,fundamentalist christians... because why?
why do we berate them?
is it ONLY because they seem so close minded?
or that they refuse to recognize facts which may disagree with their dogma?
well of course..partially.
but the real danger with a fundamentalist is the STAGNATION.
the stagnation of mind and spirit.
it is death..a very slow and drawn out death.
now we could talk for days the intricacies of choggie.the good and ill but we are past that..
the thing that choggie fought for..misguided and rudely most of the time is STILL a noble thing to fight for.
would you like to now one of my favorite tactics?
which of course now i am going to have to change since i am posting it here.
i will put out an opposing argument that may be going on in comments..
not because i actually believe that argument,many times i dont..
no..the reason i do that is so that somebody will challenge my argument and in doing so have to defend theirs.
and to accomplish that they have to THINK about how they came to that conclusion and it reveals to me their thought processes.
if they didnt come up with the argument in the first place then i can easily dismantle it due to the fact it was never theirs to begin with.
no hurt feelings..well..maybe a bruised ego but that is all and the next time they get challenged you can bet your bippy they will be prepared.
i vote for every one of blankfists libertarian videos.
does this mean i am libertarian?
not really..but since the sift has become a place where votes are seen as "agreeing" or "disagreeing" many times an unpopular political video needs to be heard.even if i disagree with it.
i give away votes like we are living in new orleans and its mardi gras.
does this mean i "agree" with every videos content? hell no.
there is nothing more satisfying than poppin a vid with 9 votes.
or helping a new sifter get a star.or doing a pq dive and finding a gem i can promote.
or having a heated argument over something i care about with people i respect.
these are good things.
things that make this place special.
you felt that choggie tried to silence you and that had to have been a crappy feeling and one that would have pissed me off.
you have every right to be pissed but thats your deal with choggie.
now you may sift differently and probably do.
but i sift my way and thats how i enjoy this site but i have seen people shunned and berated for posting things that others either disagree or find laughable.
and all it takes is the ONE comment..just one.
and then the ball starts rolling and then we wonder..hey whatever happened to so and so?
remember how choggie made you FEEL.
now imagine being new here and posting a video that gets laughed at..snide remarks.
your new..you thought people would love your new christian rock video.
am i accusing you of this? no..i have never seen you behave in that manner but i have seen others.
who are you..or i for that matter to judge anothers passions,joys or interests as worthy or unworthy?
we vote on quality not to ostrasize.
maybe my fears are unfounded or misguided but i dont think they are.
the comments you have made have proven that to me.
i hope i have made myself clear.
if i havent well..tough titties cuz i am done with this subject.
we are cool netrunner.
go in peace brother.
namaste.

@enoch, here's what I take from your post:

I challenged the assertions made that choggie was great for the sift, by merely asking if that includes an endorsement of his treatment of me.

For this, you believe I owe all the people I named an apology, for merely asking the question in a strident manner (i.e. do you think he's right, and are just too afraid to say what he said yourselves?).

Since it seems important to you, I would point out that I didn't "call you a pussy", unless you really were harboring ill will towards me that you had not expressed up to this point out of fear. I said what I said, feeling awfully confident that that was not actually the case for any of the three people I named, and that if I was wrong, coward was a pretty mild slight by choggie standards.

I'm sorry I've ruffled your feathers with my insinuation that the word "cowardice" belongs anywhere within a million miles of your name, but all I really wanted to hear was "no, of course I don't mean to endorse that" or "yes, actually, you're the scum of the earth, now that you ask".

I assumed it was an easy "no" for all three, especially yourself. Apparently me trying to make you THINK offended you so much you're now in the "scum of the earth" category.

I'm not a shrinking violet, I don't bruise easily, but I kinda have to take offense when someone literally makes it their mission in life to run me off this site, and other people fucking applaud him for it.

I'm not apologizing for being mad about it, and putting people on the spot about it.

Wakes are usually fun
>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
This sift talk is becoming an Irish Wake.

Sorry for this tangential interjection, but your poetic text formating is really rough on the eyes for comments this long. It makes me not want to read it. My 2 cents. >> ^enoch:

ok netrunner.
i will take "i didnt mean to offend you" as an apology for calling me,scmawy and rasch passive agressive cowards who refuse to say something to your face.
you really dont have any understanding do you?
sighs..
ok..and i say this with all sincerity and in the most human way.
what was between you and choggie was between you and choggie.same as with krono and others.
it is not only unfair to lump schmawy rasch and i into that polemic but dishonest.
you yourself have stated that all of us dont have a problem with you and vice versa.
well i know i didnt until you called me a pussy.
yet you continue to miss the point.
a point i grow weary of having to make over and over and over due to your prejudices concerning choggie.
i TOTALLY get he was a cock to you..and others.
i am not dismissing that nor am i condoning by my words choggies actions in that regard.
i never have and neither has schmawy nor rasch (not that i have ever seen anyway).
what you failed to realize in my now multiple posts is the truth of what i was speaking and it had only a fraction to do with choggie.
maybe you dont think i am smart enough to make these observations.
maybe just the word "choggie" blinds you to them fueled by your bitter past with him.
i do not know netrunner and that is your path to walk.
what i DO know is that what i was trying and i gather i have failed miserably by yours and others comments,is to reveal to everybody that there is a danger in like-mindedness.
i see so many people berate,me included,fundamentalist christians... because why?
why do we berate them?
is it ONLY because they seem so close minded?
or that they refuse to recognize facts which may disagree with their dogma?
well of course..partially.
but the real danger with a fundamentalist is the STAGNATION.
the stagnation of mind and spirit.
it is death..a very slow and drawn out death.
now we could talk for days the intricacies of choggie.the good and ill but we are past that..
the thing that choggie fought for..misguided and rudely most of the time is STILL a noble thing to fight for.
would you like to now one of my favorite tactics?
which of course now i am going to have to change since i am posting it here.
i will put out an opposing argument that may be going on in comments..
not because i actually believe that argument,many times i dont..
no..the reason i do that is so that somebody will challenge my argument and in doing so have to defend theirs.
and to accomplish that they have to THINK about how they came to that conclusion and it reveals to me their thought processes.
if they didnt come up with the argument in the first place then i can easily dismantle it due to the fact it was never theirs to begin with.
no hurt feelings..well..maybe a bruised ego but that is all and the next time they get challenged you can bet your bippy they will be prepared.
i vote for every one of blankfists libertarian videos.
does this mean i am libertarian?
not really..but since the sift has become a place where votes are seen as "agreeing" or "disagreeing" many times an unpopular political video needs to be heard.even if i disagree with it.
i give away votes like we are living in new orleans and its mardi gras.
does this mean i "agree" with every videos content? hell no.
there is nothing more satisfying than poppin a vid with 9 votes.
or helping a new sifter get a star.or doing a pq dive and finding a gem i can promote.
or having a heated argument over something i care about with people i respect.
these are good things.
things that make this place special.
you felt that choggie tried to silence you and that had to have been a crappy feeling and one that would have pissed me off.
you have every right to be pissed but thats your deal with choggie.
now you may sift differently and probably do.
but i sift my way and thats how i enjoy this site but i have seen people shunned and berated for posting things that others either disagree or find laughable.
and all it takes is the ONE comment..just one.
and then the ball starts rolling and then we wonder..hey whatever happened to so and so?
remember how choggie made you FEEL.
now imagine being new here and posting a video that gets laughed at..snide remarks.
your new..you thought people would love your new christian rock video.
am i accusing you of this? no..i have never seen you behave in that manner but i have seen others.
who are you..or i for that matter to judge anothers passions,joys or interests as worthy or unworthy?
we vote on quality not to ostrasize.
maybe my fears are unfounded or misguided but i dont think they are.
the comments you have made have proven that to me.
i hope i have made myself clear.
if i havent well..tough titties cuz i am done with this subject.
we are cool netrunner.
go in peace brother.
namaste.

choggie probably knows as much as anyone that the sift has been turned into a private playground for about ten assholes who feel they need to decide how everyone should behave in their sandbox and exert their meta-retard powers over everyone they can smack around with their e-penis.

Also, I think @enoch's posts would be better if he always ended them with, "I said, 'good day!'"
>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Sorry for this tangential interjection, but your poetic text formating is really rough on the eyes for comments this long. It makes me not want to read it. My 2 cents. >> ^enoch:
[snip]

ah, Choggie. he's sort of like Darth Vader. ...oh...no, wait. he's more like Yoda. ...ok, he's sort of Darth Yoda. there, I said it. he has this very odd way with words. and he's evil. but not that evil. so he's not the emperor. wow. I give up. it happened on Star Wars day, I missed it, aaaand I think I've had one too many. good night, everyone!