That assault on the subway -- that happened to me at 11 am on a Sunday in NYC. Beautiful sunny day. Outside. I stopped to watch a street vendor with a crowd, and someone was jostling me from behind, I thought to see better.

I realized he was jostling me rhythmically and panting.

I had just finished a self defense class, so I thought I was prepared to deal with it. I turned.... and looked down. This tiny guy was standing behind me, with a tent in his pants. I was 6 inches taller than him, and outweighed him by probably 50 pounds. He just looked up at me and... shrugged. Shrugged and smiled.

I had the physical skills to decimate him, but we were taught in class to use the skills to protect ourselves, not to attack.

I wasn't in danger. So I turned on my heel and walked away. Joined my friend, laughing. I'm a tourist in NYC for six hours, and I get sexually "assaulted." How funny!

It wasn't funny 15 minutes later. I started crying, just like this woman. I spent the day with my back against the wall where ever I went. I couldn't stand to have someone behind me. I kept feeling him on my ass. All day long.

I finally asked my friend to replace the "muscle memory." So she put her hand on my butt where he had assaulted me, and said soothing words.

That worked.

For six months. Until I was standing in line for a movie back home, and the man behind me had a cold. I could hear him breathing and I internally flipped out. I kept moving so he wouldn;t be behind me, but he wanted to stay in line, and kept getting behind me.

I went into the theater, took a seat, and sobbed.

Over something that didn't physically threaten me.

I had guilt over how I handled it. I had just taken that self defense course, and I had heard a story that amused the hell out of me.

A woman was on a bus, rush hour, pressed into the crowd, when a guy started groping her.

Know what she did?

She said LOUDLY so EVERYONE COULD HEAR -- I want you all to know that THIS MAN, THIS MAN RIGHT HERE, is touching me. I did not GIVE HIM PERMISSION TO TOUCH ME.

He slunk away. He left her alone.

I wish that this video offered solutions.

It was frustrating to know that the blonde woman was in a car full of people, and she didn't have a voice. She wasn't taught to speak up and make a scene.

And it is months later, and because she didn't speak, she still carries that.

And it is months later, and she didn't offer a solution based on her experience. She is still caught.

I'll tell you one thing -- that happens to me again?

I'M SPEAKING UP. Calmly. Loudly. Assertively. With conviction.

THIS MAN. THIS MAN RIGHT HERE.

If all women did that, this crap would stop.

They count on us staying silent.

Tell this to the women you love. Tell them to speak up if they feel safe -- and a crowded bus, a crowded subway car? You are surrounded by people. Nothing is going to happen to you.

They operate in the dark. They operate in silence. They count on your embarrassment.

Turn it on them, embarrass the bloody hell out of them and this crap will end.

That is awful. Forget speaking, if it happens again (and I sincerely hope it doesn't) turn around and knee him right in the balls. Hard.

That is just the point.

I had the physical skills to take this guy down.

It is the silence that is the problem for women.

I heard another story in that self defense class, which I think will illustrate what I mean even better.

A young woman at college was on a date. She went back to the young man's dorm room. He trapped her there for three days, continually raping her. She could hear people walking down the hall, she could hear people next door, and she never called out. She said later -- she didn't want to make a scene.

Women need to make a scene. We need to teach our girls to make a scene, and they will grow up to be women who make scenes. With clear, true voices.

It is the verbal equivalent of "the pen is mightier than the sword." Kneeing some guy in the balls, in the long run, is not nearly as effective as teaching our girls and women to speak up.

Anyone who thinks i'm condoning assault on any level for any reason can just flat out go to hell... having said that...

The first part of this video infuriates me. You wear a skirt where your ass is literally hanging out the back, and then get indignant about the cat calls? That does nothing but hurt our cause. Let me put it another way. So if she accepts no responsibility for dressing like that, at what point does she?... She says it herself... she dresses provocatively!!! Well... seems to me she is by definition provoking a response. I'm curious what response she wanted to provoke if not that one.

The real issue is women don't have to dress like prostitutes to be harassed EXACTLY like this... and it would have been a far more reasonable and effective demonstration if they would have shown that...

I'm confused why it seems you think it's an either or situation. You turn around, knee him in the balls, hard, then as he crumples to the ground you repeat, loudly, 'THIS GUY RIGHT HERE IS AGRESSIVELY SEXUALLY TOUCHING ME, INTENTIONALLY, INAPROPRIATELY, WITHOUT MY CONSCENT.'
Take them down physically AND emotionally, it's what they were doing to you, no? Turnabout's fair play.

*quality
*promote

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by bareboards2.

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Thursday, July 31st, 2014 7:29am PDT - promote requested by bareboards2.

That self defense class I took? Where I learned some skills that are available to me to this day?

They didn't teach them to men. The class I was in was women only (except for the martial arts instructors, a mixed bag gender-wise.) But they consciously did not offer those same skills to men.

Precisely because of your advice here.Which is why they don't teach those self defense skills to men.

A little guy pushing his erect penis into my ass on a sunny day is not a physical threat to me. Hell, I could have just pushed him and sat on him, and the fight is over.

Crushing someone's genitals is not something you do unless it is NECESSARY.

It is not "either/or." It is appropriate response to the threat. It was inappropriate in that situation to physically assault that man.

Turnabout IS fair play. He did not hurt me physically. He hurt me psychically.

The appropriate response is a psychic blow back.

And if every girl was taught to stand their ground (take that, Florida!!!) with their voice, this shit would end.

OK, I can understand that. I suppose the proper response depends on the level of assault, and maybe a little ass humping doesn't quite reach a level where violent response is required...until it escalates with a painful grab/thrust/grope.
If you didn't intend to make it an 'either/or' situation, I stand corrected, so long as violent response isn't just off the table when it IS warranted.
I totally agree, women (girls) should be taught to speak up loudly and instantly when this happens and it would cut down 99% of it (there will still be those few looking for that, or immune to embarrassment).

I took the classes. I have the skills. I fully intended to use them that day in NY, but they weren't needed.

We agree. Either/or is a silly stance to take.

Use your judgment, protect yourself, use your words, de-escalate before whipping out the big guns.... Common sense.

bareboards has the right of it: Victims speaking up is the most important thing when it comes to, well, just about anything. Harassment, abuse, etc. The idea that if we just tell people that it is bad enough they will change their behaviour is silly. No, they won't. The people who do this are assholes that don't care about others. Hence the answer is for victims to speak up, call these people out, cast them in to the public light.

That is the only way these kinds of things will stop. You can't hope that society will just change.

Too true. I think it's a double whammy. It stops you from taking control, and then it festers afterwards. Victims feel they were somehow complicit in their own abuse because they weren't more assertive.

I wonder if this type of abuse, and indeed the catcalling as well, is basically a power thing - a dominance thing. Confronting them deprives them of their little power trip. At any rate, it's evidently a hard thing to do.

Help me understand this @ 1:40... "I know I dress provocatively, but I dont think I should have to deal with this."
...
Uhm, if you want to dress like a slut, dont you think you are opening yourself up for these types of comments? There is a cause and effect relationship here. And dont try to tell me dressing like a slut helps keeps her thighs cool...

That just made me realize that "provocative" is entirely the wrong word; and our vocabulary about women's appearance is a big part of what perpetuates the problem. Provocative implies you're being deliberately provoked to some kind of action. But you're really not.

As a mature and respectful man it's fine to think to yourself "wow, that is a sexy outfit", and keep walking. There's a time an place to say that, just as there's a time and place to get touchy feely, but it's never on the street with strangers. You can control yourself, easily. And if you genuinely can't, going outside is probably not the best idea; there be ladies about.

I don't think it's quite that clear cut; I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to want to feel sexy without wanting to be harassed by every jerk on the street.

I'll admit that if I saw her walking down the street, my eye would be drawn--that's pretty damn hardwired in my brain. However, I'd avoid gaping at her, and I sure as hell wouldn't make any comments to her. The most I'd do is smile. Why? Because I don't have the right to be a jerk just because she dressed attractively.

She dressed the way she wanted to. You're the one who decided it made her a slut. What about the way someone dresses gives someone else the right to act like an asshole towards them?

I think the style of wearing your waistband around your thighs is low-class; I think people who wear neckties at work tend to be ass-kissers; I think people who have piercings and/or tattoos all over are fashion victims who will regret their choices in another 20 years.

None of those things gives me the right to make comments to any of them; I may form opinions, but I keep them to myself. Why? Partly because I don't want the conflict--something that guys commenting to women aren't worried about--but also because I know I shouldn't be so judgmental and I try to avoid being an asshole.

I'd just like to say your avatar is cool.


Just sayin'

The guy in a suit (1:07) was staring AT HER FACE. Why'd he get the slo-mo treatment and tagged as a creep?

His internal monologue could have been, "Ok so, power lunch with the boss at 1230, head over to the squash court for a couple rounds, swim a couple laps... HOLY SHIT! Is that Megan from Legal? Her hair looks amaz... oh wait, that's not Megan. Shit. Totally stared. Glad some undercover videographer didn't catch that and make me look like a total perv."

What I don't feel is fair is if the guy is hot, staring is sexy, if he isn't, it's harassment. It's only bad if it's not wanted. How the fuck is a guy supposed to know?

Most of the video's examples are SOLIDLY in the harassment borders. I just don't like how looking is bad unless the woman is attracted to the guy. That's just not fair.

#1 - she shouldn't have to put up with it
#2 - something about your argument is itching my brain, and replying is the best way for me to explore it

I think there is a meaningful difference between her and the examples you expanded on. Some fella with low hanging pants isn't trying to look low class. Somebody with tats isn't trying to look like a future fashion victim. A girl that dresses up sexy is usually trying to look sexy. There are a few that pretty much can't help it.

Imagine someone with has a bunch of tats of a band that you like. You can approach him about that, directly, out of the blue, and probably not get a negative response. You could even just holler from across the road, and it's just dandy.

Something makes it unacceptable to acknowledge that the girl did a great job of looking sexy.

Yeah, my analogy isn't perfect, but analogies never are :-)

With the examples I used, the choices are made to fit in with a peer group. With the question of sexily/provocatively/whatever dressed women, it's a lot more complicated, and I won't claim to begin to understand it as I'm not in that position. All I really know is that the vast majority of women don't appreciate lewd comments no matter how they're dressed, so even if the horndog part of my brain lights up at someone wearing something skimpy (and yeah, it will), I'm going to keep my those thoughts to myself.

If you dress a certain way, you should expect that you may elicit certain responses.

I think David Chappelle says it best:
http://youtu.be/CD0-Zo4ZnrQ?t=3m42s

Yeah, I'll agree that women who dress like the woman we're talking about should expect those responses. That doesn't make it right; it just means a significant portion of men are assholes.

What I don't get is why people make the argument that she shouldn't dress like that instead of acknowledging that men shouldn't catcall.

Women in Japan have apps on their phone that they turn on and show to the person who is groping them. It tells them to please stop and what you are doing is wrong. Groping on the trains in Japan is a big big problem apparently, and the culture is one where you should never speak up or draw attention to yourself. Lots of people commit suicide on the train tracks too.

I don't have anything to add really because I'm not the largest guy but I look like someone you maybe don't want to fuck with. I have been in situations where I felt threatened by a group of people but that comes with being a referee. I always ALWAYS have the ability to just leave, and one day I probably will. Especially if people keep killing referees.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-accused-of-murder-in-michigan-referee-death-due-in-court/

Other than that I have nothing to add to this particular subject. I have never felt threatened anywhere but my job. I would not like to know how that feels.

@bareboards2 crushed it.

This video reminds me of a situation I was in about a year ago. I was sitting in a bus and all the seats were taken, but there was plenty of room to stand comfortably without having to press against each other. A guy got on the bus, came to my seat and stood unreasonably close to me, pushed himself against my left side and started rubbing his pelvis against me. I didn't know how to respond and although I was very uncomfortable, I just endured it, because I knew that the bus stop was only a few minutes away and I would soon be able to get off the bus. There were many people around me, who probably didn't pay any attention to it. Afterwards, I tried to think of other reasons for him standing so close to me, thought that it might have been unintentional and that I might have read too much into it. I tried to forget about it and moved on. Come to think of it, I can't find a reason for him rubbing against me, since the center of the bus was almost empty.
Until now, I didn't realize that these things seem to happen to women on a regular basis. I don't know if I would be able to speak up if something similar happened to me again. I would be afraid of making an unnecessary scene, thinking that it may actually be unintentional and that I am reading too much into it, in which case I would sound like a lunatic. I know that this thought is irrational, but this is what I would think in that situation.

"I Know how the way I dress is provocative, but I shouldn't have to deal with it."

I am completely not a sexist, but this quote makes me scratch the hair off my head.

I totally agree that you should vocalise your disapproval.

That said, a little physical reinforcement is entirely warranted IMHO. I'm not talking about crippling the guy or permanently injuring his genitals, but you can better believe that if someone did that to me a knee to the balls would be the least of their worries.

Besides, it might make him think twice about doing it to other people.

All that said, it was your situation to deal with and what you do is up to you. I just probably wouldn't have been so philosophical about it.

Related Posts: Basrats and Bereta: Construction Cat Calls
I found that especially funny because of these "dress like a slut, get treated like one" type of responses here.
I know, the word "slut" isn't nice and I'm not good a political correctness (I actually loathe it) but maybe the problem is not with the word but with our associations with it.
You see, the problem I have starts with the idea that there's something wrong with sluts. As a man (and therefore certainly a pig, at least in my case) I enjoy sluts tremendously. They are women who share, at least in general terms, my sexual morals and enjoy their sexuality as much as I do (theirs and mine). I see nothing wrong with that. Sure, I dislike STDs as much as anybody but being slutty doesn't mean automatically being careless, just more at risk. Maybe I just don't understand men who like their female sex partners to be well behaved little princesses. They either prefer very conservative sex (you know, when blowjobs seem kinky) or they are strangely rapey. Maybe it's just our manly discomfort of loosing control over female sexuality.
Then there is this notion of dressing "like a slut". Sure, there is unappropriate clothing. I wouldn't go to a funeral in my Spongebob Squarepants pyjamas. But why is it in todays times, in the western world that is covered in billboards full of women in bikinis, so wrong to walk the street dressed in your best "sexy hooker" halloween costume? Are these women on the billboards, the ones who strike sexualized poses to sell me beer, dressed like sluts too? Is a bikini "slutty clothing"? I'm pretty sure my mom once wore one and yours probably too. As long as the important parts are covered, it should be fine.
The real issue, though, is the idea that anybody has a right to comment on that. Loudly.
If I have a right to comment sluttly clothing, can I also comment on other clothing that isn't the percieved norm? Do I get to shout ghost and terrorism related jokes at women in burkas? Can I yell at cops to come and strip-search me because I have a thing for uniforms? Should I yell at anyone with unfortunate clothing choices? "Hey lady, don't shake that ass, it's too fat for these pants! I don't want the Blob to escape!"
No, it's only sexually provocative clothing that gets these reactions. And that's why I like the video above so much, because it shows what kind of comments you get. It's never "young lady, I disagree with your clothing choice and insist you put on something decent!" nor "What a beautiful skirt, is it silk?"
It is always amused, approving and at the same time disrespectful and sexually dominant. Often gleefull and too often actually misogynistic.
These are never positive comments and even if the words seem positive, they're harassment. It's nothing but sexual harassment. Otherwise these men would be yelling "Young lady, I disagree with your clothing choice and insist you put on something decent!"
Dress like a slut, get treated like one, that's just a lame excuse for men trying to control female sexuality.
Personally, I think if you dress like a slut, I should treat you with respect and kindness. Because I want sluts to like me. I'm a pig.

Oh, and that touching without consent thing (a.k.a. groping)? That makes me want to hand out business cards to women so they can call me to kick these guys in the balls. I really hate that, I really loathe those touchy-feely-fuckers. It reached a point where I actually try to avoid touching women without clear invitation as good as I can.
These men need to be publicly shamed for such behaviour. Make a scene. A big one.

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Barats-and-Bereta-Construction-Cat-Calls

That is really good!

Barats and Bereta: Construction Cat Calls has been added as a related post - related requested by bareboards2.

@bareboards2 and ChaosEngine -

I actually spent a fair amount of time thinking about this after watching the video. The conclusion that I came to is that in bareboards2's situation, I agree that probably the "best" response would be make a scene / speak up / shame the guy. For a couple of key reasons:

First, there are two possible goals / longterm objectives to any response here. One, and the most important, is for the woman/person being harassed to get out of the situation as quickly as possible and suffer as little physical or psychological damage as possible. Second, ideally the person doing the harassing/assault ought to be discouraged from behaving the same way in the future.

Calling the assaulter out is probably, in most situations, the best way to optimize both of those outcomes. A physical response like taking the guy down / kicking him in the balls might do an OK job of accomplishing both goals also, but it is probably more risky in general. Also, the specifics of the situation might not play out in favor of it -- it might easily happen with a huge strong dude versus a woman with NO self defense training.

BUT, I also agree with ChaosEngine. Bareboards2, I'm not a psychologist or anything, but it seems like a lot of your regret and lingering bad feelings about your situation come as a result of deciding not to speak up OR respond physically with violence. While I agree that speaking up would probably have been the best response, I'd wager that you'd have felt better if you had socked the creep; or at least incapacitated him enough to fully get out of the situation. And he would (probably) have been less likely to do it again in the future if that had happened; but that is a far lesser concern than your physical and emotional state after the incident.

I guess what I mean to say is that sometimes when we are in a real-life situation, under pressure and caught unprepared, it might be the case that a less-than-ideal solution to the situation might be better than holding back and doing nothing. Maybe.

I hope I don't cause any offense with any of that, I just found this whole comment thread very interesting and find myself agreeing with different aspects of many of the differing opinions.

@milkman
Thanks for your great deal of thought on this subject.

However, I have ZERO regret over not "socking the creep."

It was inappropriate under those circumstances to hit this tiny guy. I was much bigger than him and I could have really hurt him. His assault on me was psychological more than physical -- my first response was to laugh! He didn't hurt me physically, clearly wasn't assaulting any more, and I was going to attack him?

Excuse me, but that seems a very male response to a situation. I don't see a single woman in this comment stream writing that I should have slugged or kneed him. Every comment about physically striking him came from men -- correct me if I am wrong, I might have the gender of some posters incorrect.

I am very clear, after thinking about this for a long time, that my single regret is that I didn't call him out verbally. It was my first regret, and I struggled to get to the place where I wasn't ashamed of my lack of action in not calling him out. I got myself out safely and that was the most important thing that had to happen. I did that. I was successful in protecting myself. I won.

But I learned from this -- if it happens again, because of this experience, I am prepared next time to SHAME THE HOLY HELL OUT OF HIM.

That is, IF I can do it safely. My first priority will always be to protect myself.

So if I do not feel threatened physically, I will call the perv out in such a way as to stay safe and embarrass the hell out of him. I do so want to "strike a blow" on behalf of all girls and women who have to suffer this shite, and maybe be a role model for any women and girls who happen to be watching.

If I feel threatened with additional physical assaults, I WILL use my training to protect myself -- which starts with body language and a strong NO, and physical strikes if necessary.

Here's a little factoid for you -- 78% of assaults on women are by single unarmed assailants. As we were taught in class, they are looking for a victim, not a fight. Strong body language, strong use of voice -- that is often all that is needed to protect yourself. Assholes will run away when you show you are willing to stand up for yourself.

No need to hit anyone, except with your chi.

I have yet another story to add about this.

One of my better female pals got in contact with me about 2 months ago by standing outside of where I worked waiting for me to come out.

I walked out of the office and was surprised to see her but she was agitated. She had a CD in her hand that she could not figure out how to load on her computer and said that two men had assaulted her in a Safeway; but had the evidence on the CD's.

I let her know that I would absolutely try and figure this out and that the discs were safe with me, I wasn't going to misplace them, etc etc.

She had gone to the security of Safeway (a third party company inside Safeway) and asked for the tapes of the times but they gave her some sort of strange format - you had to install a really shitty program and then the evidence was just a small window on the screen.

I figured out how to export the videos high resolution & full screen.

Basically, what happened was she was at a Coinstar and totally looking very pretty but these dudes came up behind her and leveraged their stuff towards her and grabbed her ass, twice. Once coming in and leaving.

When they left and did the same thing, this strong woman who I know, flipped out. She ran out after them but a cop was already waiting for one of them.

They had both been stealing shit all day long and garnered the attention of the authorities and the cops were on to them. Probably, very high on drugs.

Later it was found out that one of the dudes raped a child and also ran over a person as a hit and run.

She helped prosecute them in court and had no idea that the black hole went as deep as it did when she pressed charges for basic harassment.

@shagen454
Now there is some serious "using your voice."

Good for her.

The woman in the "experiment" is a total hypocrite. In fact, that little undercover experiment shot the credibility of everyone else's story, and the video in general.

She dressed in a way clearly meant to elicit reaction. heck she even said it was "provocative" hello, the word provocative literally means "voice call out forward" ... pro + vocare (latin for call, voice) Imagine a guy walking around with 100 bills taped all over his body, he'd be an idiot if he expected no one would look at him. If he was robbed, women would ask him .."huh why did you tape $100 bills all over you?"

The little BS hidden camera thing is clearly put on someone who's looking to find people to yell things out, for the purpose of "proving a point" and making a problem appear more serious than it is. If it happens to every day women constantly - then why not choose a woman that's dressed more "normally" ?

Obviously some of the more physical assault-like things are inexcusable, but anything else, verbal or otherwise, is just men doing what society (including women) have taught them to do: be aggressive, be bold.. why is it that...

good looking guy that calls out = man that is bold and goes after what he wants
ugly guy that calls out = creep that harasses.

And women go around wondering why "men don't understand and it's so hard to teach them..?" maybe try being a little honest and consistent for starters?