So if women controlled the set, all of this would be okay, right? Or if there were no hooch being smoked, it would be cool.

Sasha Grey pointed out awhile ago that Porn Stars need a union. Completely agree there should be a Porn Star union.

What's your point? You think it's OK to beat up women, if they're porn actresses? You think it would be OK if the director was a woman?

Shocking video but really, it shouldn't be. As a first rate cultural bottom feeder myself, I can attest that porn has sunk about as low as it can. It's largely about how many dicks can we get into that woman, pain & humiliation. Indeed there's a market for it as it's become so widespread. Gay porn seems to always have condoms. I think condom use would be a good start.

They passed a law about condoms in porn in LA. The porn industry whined and said they would move to Florida instead. Just stupid people.

There was a bill recently passed into law (in California), that states all porn actors must wear condoms. Only one state, but it's a start.

Measure B, sponsored by the group AIDS Healthcare Foundation in Los Angeles County

There is also something to be said for the significant ambiguity surrounding human sexuality and sexual expression whereby physical/emotional pleasure and pain are often interchangeable and submission and dominance are desired and sought out.

Certainly, full disclosure and informed consent would be necessary to ensure personal and professional liability. Alas, sex and porn remain in the perpetual shadows such that little attention is paid to this misunderstood and under-appreciated aspect of the human condition.

Yup, this is the sort of horrible shit that mainstream porn has become. It's horrendous.

It's not to say that abuse and horrible things haven't always been part of porn, but the way that women are degraded on screen in so much porn now is just dehumanizing. Guys who like watching porn will probably try to pretend that this is 'isolated' and doesn't happen with the porn they watch, but while I'm sure there is porn made that is woman friendly on set, and that is a pleasant environment, the VAST majority of it will be like this.

Sad, horrible, but true.

The older I get, the more I have come to understand that porn is toxic to the human spirit. To be clear, I'm not talking about public sexuality, erotica, erotic themes in fiction or the appreciation of a nude human body. I'm talking about hardcore porn, which reduces one of the most beautiful forms of human interaction to a cheap, crude, exploitive and loveless financial transaction. I used to watch plenty of porn. Now I find it incredibly depressing.

If they did not want to do a scene that had them get slapped, a large LARGE cock up their ass and verbal assault, then why the fuck are they in that scene ?

This whole post is a biased peice of shit. Sure those situations happen in the industry but you seem to persuade your mind that the "actors " in the scene are not there by will alone. If this is something that the girls/guys are forced into then sure, raise a stink.

But if they are there on their own accord .. wtf ? whats the actual issue ?

Mental status and well being or being forced into porn ?

Standards.. If you do not like the work standards you are in, you get out ( in this instance you get the guy out of you first).



I have never understood " hate fuck belittling scenes" or whatever you call them, but those people signed up for it.

So what is the actual problem with the porn industry today ? lack of leadership in workers rights? because all I seen in this video is a couple people to weak to walk away from something they were not into.

let me follow up by, sure. safety standards in the industry must be met. I wear a hard hat when I need to i wear gloves and other personal protective equipment. I think the porn industry should have a set standard.

i just have no tears for the girls/guys in this video.

You need an industry standard for sure, Safety first ya know.

@BoneRemake Wow... total lack of fricken empathy there.

Can you not imagine that on these sets they just keep escalating the situation past what the woman thought she signed up for? Can you not for a moment imagine that the woman goes along with it as long as they can manage because, well, they are men and bigger and she needs the money, and maybe it'll be over soon?

From this very video there's a part where a woman says 'I don't do A2M'... so obviously someone tried that, and she hadn't signed up for it.

You're being an enormous dick if you can't see how women get into these situations thinking they're going to do just A B and C, and then D-Z get thrust upon them before they have much say in the matter.

Become more empathetic, it can help you in many ways.

Biased.

I've said it before, the porn industry will attract "bad types" because of its nature, so regulation, unions, and other safety nets is needed to ensure that there is no abuse other than the play-acting that it's supposed to be.

There's a hell of a lot of porn that I don't want to watch, but there's an awful lot of other people who like to watch - and there are people who like to get payed doing it; who are we to outlaw it? Where's the personal responsibility in this too?

"I was so desperate, that I had to to double vaginal/double anal while that asian chick puked on me. I had to pay for my kid's kindergarten!"

Aww, that's nice.

@spoco2

I wrote Empathy on my college course list, thank you for the suggestion. I really FEEL you were MEANING to be KIND from a past EXPERIENCE you have had.


** I.. I have had. see that's what the course is for **

Not like you were making a complete back story up for the people in the video and then praying on those emotions. Unlike myself who just commented on what he knows via the video he watched. I liked your back story though It had heart.

Surely masochism is a prerequisite for women who want to be involved. When you have masochistic women surrounded by stiff cocks bad things will happen. But bad things are basically what they are there to film in the first place right?

As a general aside, I don't get the point of accusing something of being 'biased'. Everything written, spoken or otherwise communicated by one or more human beings will have a 'bias' unique to the thoughts and experiences of the individual or group communicating. To take this argument to its logical extreme invalidates any and all human opinion.

"Biased"

"Well your comment is biased"

"Well your comment about my comment is also biased"

"Well you comment about my comment about your..."

....you get the picture.

It's a lazy argument developed by cable news pundits for the purpose of countering complex arguments in 3 syllables. I think we can do better.

"That's just one side of the story." would be great alternative, IMO. Sorry to complain, but I can't stand hearing the cultural influence of FOX news in casual conversation.

If anyone disagrees, I challenge them to write a single sentence free from bias. It's impossible. I hope someone tries.

I think your issue is you're expecting a balanced argument to be made within one sentence. Sure every sentence is biased, it's how to use them that makes a fair argument.

If we live in a world where media only allow people 5 seconds to speak, don't expect anything but arguments.

The sentence doesn't have to be an argument. You cannot write a single sentence that is not biased. The more sentences you write, the more biases you reveal. 10 powerpoints says I can find at least 10 instances of bias in any sentence you write. There will be no penalty when you lose.

I watch p0rn, I own it in one form or another, yet if the whole industry was in one large room I feel fully capable of pulling the trigger on one of these until there was nothing left.

Those porn scenes were disgusting. It's hard to imagine what it's like to be a guy who gets excited by rape.

I agree with BR about this for the most part. Honestly, if you don't like it, walk away.

Yeah, she said "I don't do ass to mouth", I'm assuming after that they didn't film an ass to mouth scene. Honestly, who here actually knows the goings-on behind the camera? I sure as hell don't. For all I know, they said "We need a chick to take a cock up the ass, it'll pay 800 bucks. Want in?" and she said "Sure"

Then on set, that may have been the first time ANYBODY heard what her actual limitations were. The chick crying in pain about it hurting, if it hurts that much then stop. I don't understand why she felt the need to keep going, especially if she's A) Ruining the scene with Dialogue, and B) If it's about a moneyshot, they can get the guy to climax and finish strong another way.

To me, that seems more like one of the old school "we'll give you 500 bucks if we can fuck you" internet porn vids, and the chick is just worried about fulfilling her end of the bargain to get her money, because she literally turned herself into a prostitute for that one video.

I personally feel that the porn industry is just going to die out very soon. Everything this woman is complaining about is basically cured by free porn sites. LIke asians? ebony? fat? petite? whatever you want and actually enjoying what's going on, you can find it on the internet, as sad a fact as that may be.


That's a slippery slope too, however. If the industry dies out, who knows what'll be published online then. Maybe we will get rape sites, and if that happens then I fear for the sake of civilized society. But until that point, and until there's a union to back people up for making porn, if you don't like what's going on, then don't do it. Be stronger then that, walk away.

You don't have a union behind you to protect you, so YOU are the one who's going to have to decide if the risk is worth the reward, and weather or not you want to continue down the path you're on or if it's time to cut your losses and move on, be that with just this movie, or the career as a whole.

I like fuzzy animals, but I like not fuzzy ones just as much.

(Your move, DFT! )

Easy. I could extend my list to a hundred for a sentence this long. I was prepping for the shortest sentence in the english language: Go.

1.You are clearly biased towards the English language. I guess people who don't speak English are shit out of luck, right Shepppard?

2. You are clearly biased towards standard contemporary western sentence structure. E.E. Cummings need not apply.

3.You are clearly biased towards whimsy, completely excluding seriousness from the debate. When you are ready to take the lampshade off your head, let me know.

4. You are biased towards making yourself the subject of the sentence. ME. ME. ME. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

5. You are biased in favor of commas and periods I see. You've relegated poor Mr. exclamation point to just a parenthetical afterthought, while poor Mr. Question mark is nowhere to be seen.

6. You are biased in favor of writing about animals. SPECIES TRAITOR!

7. Your are biased in favor of using the word fuzzy as an adjective to describe said animals, when furry, fluffy, frizzy, nappy, wooly, hairy or hirsute would have sufficed.

8. You are biased in favor of using the words 'not fuzzy' to describe said animals, when not furry,not fluffy,not frizzy,not nappy,not wooly,not hairy or unhirsute would have sufficed.

9. You are biased in favor of using compound sentences when a simple sentence would have worked just as well, which would have saved us all a lot of time, which we could have used to do important things like cure cancer and sift videos, but now that time is gone thanks to your overly, overly, overly, overly, overly, overly long compound sentence.

10. Lastly, you are biased in favor of writing sentences in response to absurd challenges from strange persons on the internet trying to make the point that every action you take is subtle prejudice against all of the other actions you didn't take. Every word you chose to use in your sentence shows bias against the words you didn't choose to use. The precise moment that you hit submit on your comment was an inadvertent disenfranchisement of the many other moments that might have appreciated the honor of time stamping your achievement.

It's biases all the way down.

I bet that felt good.

I hate mainstream, commercial porn. The only stuff that does it for me is amateur stuff. People actually enjoying themselves, and no fake grunting. The porn industry can go suck a dick (no pun intended).

bias bias bias bias bias

Heres a question I'd like answered: Aren't all opinions biased to a greater or less extent? Aren't opinions formed from personal experience in the topic of discussion the most bias and also sometimes the most insightful?

I agree, assuming everyone involved consents to the upload to the interwebs. But the problem is I get the sense most amateur porn is made for the private enjoyment of the couple when they're at a good point in their relationship. Then released to the public if the guy is unscrupulous or scorn (face it, it's always the guy filming). So, you might be contributing to the public humiliation and invasion of privicy of some innocent woman.

It's hard to have an ethical wank.

This woman seems to be on some sort of crusade... A good number of her "references" for her statistics are based on her own works and her own "pink cross" foundation.
Bad things happening to people is well, bad... but this seems to be some bizzaro hobbled together series of clips of people crying or freaking out etc etc.
The segment at :58 seems pretty clearly to be an emotional response to the acting in the set (where planned choking was occurring), not physical abuse based on her relative composure in the following explanation.
The clip at 1:30 sounds like the other individual is acknowledging and attempting to accomodate the girl
Clip at 1:48 same thing, crew acknowledges a refusal
1:56 could be having a manic episode for all we know without context, and what we hear from the crew seems more empathetic than anything...

This really just seems like a bad attempt to rile a viewers for the goal of supporting a cause, but people here seem to be taking the bait.

Violence is violence... Porn starts would be legally protected like anyone else from being assaulted/abused in any way they did not agree to. Hate to say it, but this is like a coal miner suing for exposure to coal dust.
Industry regulations are well and good and it is very possible more are necessary, but this villian she is trying to create called "PORNNNN INDUSTRYYY" just doesn't hold up IMO.

*health

Adding video to channels (Health) - requested by brycewi19.

I'm really not sure what to say here because on one hand people want certain kinds of very violent porn. Are they (porn actresses) not briefed on "This film will contain choking, slapping, etc etc"?

The problem is these abuses happen in ALL workplaces but since you're already fucking it makes it almost impossible to decide in black and white standards.

I think these people need to have their own private managers on set with them if things start to go awry where they say no they want to stop etc they can be their advocate and put an end to what is happening. Getting government involved will just make things worse.

The entire PORN industry is not that bad because there are many women who do porn their entire lives and love it.

I think one of the REAL problems is the Owner/Operator that really seems to be happening. A very wealthy guy who wants to fuck hot chicks just has to film himself now and voila it's not prostitution it's pornography.

If there is an entire set of people (IE Not just people getting fucked and one guy with the camera) nobody would stand by and watch these things happen.

Not sure about the sources of these scenes. It seems like some of them aren't of any actual "behinds the scenes footage" but of Amateur videos and are edited to bolster the argument.. The video at 1:50 isn't on a porn set and is definitely an amateur video.

That's not to say she's not right about there needing to be unions or a much better working environment... but it's kind of hindering the impact because of the shady editing.

I've never understood the appeal of violent porn. Contemplating the size of that market scares me.

BR, you got this one thing right - your post was indeed a biased piece of shit. You are a biased piece of shit.

At any rate, Lubben comes across as one of the born-again porn stars who have done a 180 with their lives and want to push what worked for them on other people. Some of the things she advocates would be fine for a normal workplace (screening, safety measures, unions, etc) but the porn industry is unconventional at best, fucking shady most of the time, and occasionally criminal. Her goals of bringing 9-5 workplace standards to porn are unrealistic.

Dicks like BR and Sheppard who say "that's the way it is, the girls get what they ask for" are the same kind of dicks who did rape cheerleading in The Accused. Hope that works out well for you in RL, suckers.

How about you don't put words in my mouth? I never said "They get what they ask for". I said "If you don't like it, STOP DOING IT". Same with BR, only with a little less tact.

Seriously, did you read my post? It's effectively 4 or 5 paragraphs saying A) We don't know what goes on prior to filming, and B) If you don't like what you're doing, find the strength to walk away.

I won't go into a full breakdown of my original post, because I feel that if anybody actually took the time to read it, they'd see that i'm definitely not advocating rape (I'd like to point out a quote from my original post: "Maybe we will get rape sites, and if that happens then I fear for the sake of civilized society" you know, saying that I'm hoping that never becomes a reality because of the shear horror that would bring.)

In short, get off whatever soap box you think you're on, because your comment was effectively "Fuck BR->fuck the chick in this vid her views are unrealistic and silly->Fuck BR and Sheppard."

Edit: Nevermind

Having worked in the adult industry as an editor, photographer and videographer for several years I can say that most porn shoots are not even remotely like what Ms. Lubben describes. BUT that is not to say, that as with all industries, there are small unprofessional companies that crop up that don’t follow industry guidelines and ethics.

The company I worked for did fetish porn, so slapping, choking and inflicting pain were all a part of the days work. The actors that perform in these videos are professionals who have very clear guidelines as to what they will and won’t do, those guidelines are in writing with the contract signed by them prior to shooting and are gone over again in a interview prior to shooting the scene which are recorded on camera. All professional production companies work with talent agencies who are familiar with what scenes their actors are willing to perform in and also have a clear list of their artists “hard no’s”. Again, unprofessional agents and companies will not follow these guidelines.

Porn is not mostly shot at private locations as Ms. Lubben asserts in the video, it’s shot either on sound stages or at locations that are rented from private owners and permitted with the city for shooting a film. Here again, unprofessional companies will slide past these regulations and shoot rogue.

Bodily fluids?! Yes, of course, it’s sex. All the fluids she spoke of are part of sexual contact and rightfully so are part of the shoots. Again a professional company is prepared to clean up and deal with this. If anal work is part of the shoot, actors are given guidelines, if they are not already familiar with them, on how to prepare themselves for this kind of a shoot, including dietary info and a bowel evacuation schedule prior to shooting.

Up to date health reports are verified prior to starting work, if you aren’t compliant, no shoot. PERIOD. People’s lives and welfare are at stake and it’s taken very seriously.

My personal take on the video shown here is that Ms. Lubben has a very personal agenda, her experience in the industry was not a good one and it seems to fall under working for unprofessional companies. The video “Porn Set” used to illustrate her points in her speech shows actors who obviously had major issues with the shoots they were working on and who should have left them immediately. Also from the video shown it looked like some of the actors were either high or drunk. The use of drugs and alcohol on set is a huge NO at any professional shoot; Ms. Lubben’s experience in the industry again seems to fall foul of that. I personally have turned away actors (in the kindest way possible) who were visibly intoxicated showing up for to work. It’s incredibly unsafe as with any work place to perform impaired.

How to solve these problems? Regulation is a good start, but also a sticky area (no pun intended) for gov’t to get involved in. Porn is a multi-billion dollar industry with little to no regulation. BUT as you begin to regulate, you legitimize the actions of porn, which in the simplest of terms is prostitution, and with that word politicians start to turn and run. Should gov’t be involved? I for one think in the long run it should be, to protect the workers health and safety and weed out the unprofessional elements of the porn industry, and who knows eventually professionalize the sex industry all together.

I am not even going to read the comments. I might not necessarily agree with "porn" and I personally have a lot of appreciation for feminism but also... you know a girl getting spanked to blindness...

but if you are single, not currently fucking someone and you have something bad to say about porn. You are fucking lying. Stop lying. Yeah, I mean it sucks. It's like going to McDonalds you know it's shit but it is still good, it makes you ugly and then you're hungry again. If someone asked you where you ate dinner... you might say "Oh... I ate at that sushi place". Not all of us are lucky enough to eat at a Sushi restaurant everyday because who likes eating sushi ALONE? Tonight it's fries and milkshakes with Sasha Grey.

What he said (@youdiejoe). He just saved me the time and effort of having to write all that out.

Man, there's no 9-5 standard in ANY entertainment industry. Entertainment in general is shady.

I for one believe that prostitution should be legalized and regulated. It's for the protection of the women more than anything.

Existence is.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

What do you think it means?

google definition:

bi·as
/ˈbīəs/
Noun
Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

You were biased in favor of..

1. using English 2. using 'existence' as the subject in your point. 3. using the word existence instead of other synonyms. 4. using 'is' as your verb. 5. making the point that 'existence is.' 6. explaining your point with the specific combination of words you chose to use. 7. using a period. 8. Making your sentence short. 9. using two words in your sentence. 10. making my challenge more difficult by being strategic. 11. capitalizing the first letter in the sentence. 12. not capitalizing the other letters. 13. using standard status quo western sentence structure. 14. thinking you would earn 10 powerpoints.

These were just the biases you revealed through writing. There were many many more silent biases that lie beyond detection in your noggin.

For me to prove that your sentence was biased in 10 ways, I need only to believe what I've written - and I do. For you to prove that your sentence was unbiased, you need 100% world population consensus, which I deny you.

Yes, all things are biased to a greater or less extent. Yes all things are bad or good to a greater or less extent. That doesn't stop you from judging them. It becomes dangerous/interesting when you can't tell the extent and the good or bad. Complaining about people pointing out a bias is just plain stupid.
There is ALWAYS a bias and it is ALWAYS worth discussing.

To add some perspective to the discussion: here is another report- it highlights another side of the porn industry and is not really that shocking. So what is the turth then? Probably both.

http://videosift.com/video/Louis-Theroux-Twilight-of-the-Porn-Stars

Thanks YouDieJoe for shedding some light on the situation. Glad someone was able to put some real input into the thread, rather than from their armchair and their ego.

You are biased.

Is this the part where I call you biased too and we each continue in an infinite loop until the universe ends?
Because I am totally down for that.

Did my accusation of bias further the conversation in a meaningful way?

About the same
"a particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bias

You're abusing the term to such platitudes as saying "you're biased towards the english language" Oh please, spare me the bullshit. We're talking about a biased position to the point where it loses credibility. Using english in favor of sanskrit has no detectable bearing on the points being made.

You might as well say some shit like "you were biased to write your response as apposed to sending it with smoke signals - clearly biased". Pfft, come back when you want to have a discussion about something in the real world.

The video here is so tainted by her very bad experiences, that she's making the assumption that the whole industry is exactly like her own experiences, and as @youdiejoe explained very nicely above, they're not. So what are we to believe of this video? My own evaluation is that while she had a terrible experience, this does not warrant the judgment of the industry, just of the people who abused her. I'll even go so far as to agree that the porn industry is worse than many other industries as far as abuse goes, but other industries also have abuse in many different ways. Remember ea_spouse and the other similar one for the LA Noire developers.

Anyways, coming back to bias - there's always bias, but it's all about the degree of bias. Which is most biased: Fox news or BBC? Both are biased towards certain things, but something as trivial as the language used is a very small factor.

I'm not abusing the term, I'm challenging you to think outside of the box. You use the term as cable news pundits have taught you to use it, as an epithet.

Your fragility when it comes to discussing feminism and gender issues reveals an incredible amount of bias on your part, to the point that it takes from the credibility of your arguments.

Is this fair? Is this productive? Should this invalidate or reduce the value of your opinions? Do you like being on the receiving end of this kind of argument that you so passionately defend?

If you don't think language plays a major role in how you think, then I encourage you to read up on the subject.

But that's exactly the thing dft (and I) would like people to straighten out in their mind. The word bias isn't supposed to be synonymous with "has no credibility."

If you want to accuse someone of being some sort of dishonest person who's making shit up because they're prejudiced, then you should have the courage of your convictions and say "x is dishonest" or "x is prejudiced", and not hide behind some BS term like "x is biased".

Isn't it?

Well, she IS prejudiced. That's what I've been meaning with biased - I've been using them a synonyms. Evidently, that's not allowed around here.

She has insight into part of that industry, but she seems to only have insight into the bad part. She then extrapolates that to the whole industry and that's not a fair argument. This part of the argument holds no water, because I don't think she is in a position to speak for that industry.

As another aside, I think it's interesting how this topic can make people on both ends of the spectrum get all hissy. People care about this shit.

Fragility? Hmm.

In any case, I'm certainly biased for it, because I think people should have the option to choose. The same way I think drugs should be legal, but still regulated. Right now the "drug industry" outside of medicine is like the wild west, and the porn industry is near the same. They should have checks and balances in the same way that other industries have, and honestly they should have significantly more of them, because of the nature of the business. This is nothing compared to what the illegal drug industry goes through - ever seen the results of Mexican Cartels? That stuff ain't pretty either.

She is calling for illegalizing it completely, and that's just stupid.

I don't think my bias is as big (hmm, which word is correct instead of "big"?) as hers and not to the extent that people should feel the need to invalidate my arguments, but that's not really up to me to decide.

When I say that "she's biased" it is to call attention to the fact that I think her bias should be considered when evaluating her point. She is doing these two
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

And while I don't doubt that's she's been through hell and back, her data is not all the data.

I agree that this was not conveyed when calling it "biased" as I intended, so I'll retract that and stand corrected.

yes, it showed the lengths you will go to to make a point. Wether it is pointless lengths to make pointless points is not really my intention to judge.

*edit* To make this a bit less of a flame-bait:
It is a pretty good idea to question every video on the internet regarding its authenticity and relevance. Violence in porn and the subjugation of possibly stupid or simply desperate individuals is worth talking about. It is also worth talking about the kind of people who get stuck in this machinery and why it results in this rather disturbing footage

It's mostly a semantic quibble, I don't really disagree with you about this lady's credibility.

It just seems like American culture has been under a sustained attack by Orwellian wordsmiths who are trying to achieve through manipulations of language what they can't achieve by just making an open and straightforward case for their ideas.

We've seen a decades-long project to destroy the credibility of the press, which started with them claiming it's got a liberal bias (under the old meaning of the word, where this is assumed to be both unintentional and mild), while simultaneously saying all day on talk radio that "liberal bias" is a nefarious plot to brainwash people.

A decade or two down the road, you wind up with this whole counterculture of angry old white guys simply apoplectic about a series of supposed injustices committed against them (that never actually happened) by people who are prejudiced against them (who aren't actually prejudiced).

It is more than a little bit of a tangent, but I definitely get why calling her "biased" provoked this reaction from dft.

How dare you call my pointfull points pointless. I'm good with questioning relevance and authenticity, I just don't like FOX news inspired rhetoric.

@youdiejoe A question though. It seems (based on the interwebs), that a large amount of porn these is of the sort in this video. (Actually, the Loius Theroux doco on porn leaned to the side of it's all a bit depressing too)

Do you have any sort of handle on how much is well run vs non-professionally? It'd be absolutely awesome to be able to run out the horrible operators, but the degrading form of porn seems to be horrendously prevalent these days.

@spoco2

I highly doubt there's even a remote comparison to anything on the web vs video porn. It'd be like asking what the difference is between youtube and cinema.

@Shepppard But if the majority of porn consumed these days is from the web, and the majority of content there is made for the web, then does that mean that the majority of content is terrible, degrading shit?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking YDJ, someone in the industry.

@spoco2 again, it's like comparing youtube to cinema. When was the last time you went and saw a random youtube video and went "This is a masterpiece, far better than what hollywood can produce!" you can't compare the two, THAT is effectively what makes up most of the internet porn, some yokel with a camera, some are good, some are terrible.

There are professional websites, and I'm assuming that they're the exact same thing as YDJ described. But you can't compare the two, it doesn't make sense to even try, again, one is a business, and one is someone who thinks filming themselves is and putting it online is "kinky".

@Shepppard I'm not really trying to compare the two, I'm trying to get a handle on how many are professionally shot where the women are treated with respect, and how many are shot where the women are treated like shit on set.

I merely want to know if a large proportion of the porn made these days is horrible shit made with no respect for the women or not. There are the two, to be sure... my question how much of each sort is being made.

(Having said that, the mainstream stuff is fuck horrible these days anyway. The huge budget things like 'Pirates' is chock full of women gagging on cocks and the like. So even if the women are treated 'well' on set, the problem is that the acts depicted these days in mainstream porn are not things that the majority of women would find pleasurable)

@spoco2 The explosion of net porn over "made for video" porn is huge, no doubt and that is where the uptick in cheap, unprofessionally made material is coming from. Not to say there wasn't that same stuff during the video porn days (as shown in her video), it just seems nowadays as @Shepppard mentions anybody can grab a camera and make a video and put it on the net. As far as telling you what the actual ratio is between the two types, I couldn't say, I've been out of it for nearly 3 years.

Personally not a huge fan of porn, especially mainstream, really horrible and boring stuff. Also nor am I fetish person, but I do have an appreciation for it after working on it for a few years, far more interesting to watch over most of the mainstream crap.