So he's Russian right? RIGHT?

The problem is that people don't understand the mentality of the lunatic fringe. Evidence is not evidence for them, it is just "proof" of a coverup.

Basically, if they don't get the answer they want, they just continue to complain that it is all a conspiracy.

>> ^ponceleon:

The problem is that people don't understand the mentality of the lunatic fringe.


Really you nailed it... I almost wish he hadn't released it. But you can almost hear them crying conspiracy now... The truth is there is NO evidence that you can supply that will convince some of these idiots... it simply doesn't exist.

Undoubtedly, the right wing cogs will regard this as a glowing success: Trump pushed the president into submission. Trump > Obama! Yay!

Tags for this video have been changed from 'brithers, obama, certificate, settled, useless, trump, idiot' to 'birthers, obama, birth certificate, settled, useless, trump, idiot' - edited by lucky760

Reminds me of a bit about Lyndon Johnson in Hunter Thompson's 'Better than Sex'

'Lyndon was running about 10 points behind, with only nine days to go... He was sunk in despair. He was desperate... he called his equally depressed campaign manager and instructed him to call a press conference at two or two-thirty ( just after lunch on a slow news day) and accuse his high-riding opponent (the pig farmer) of having routine carnal knowledge of his barnyard sows, despite the pleas of his wife and children... His campaign manager was shocked. 'We can't say that, Lyndon,' he said. 'It's not true.' 'Of course it's not,' Johnson barked at him, 'but let's make the bastard deny it.'

>> ^lucky760:

Undoubtedly, the right wing cogs will regard this as a glowing success: Trump pushed the president into submission. Trump > Obama! Yay!

FAKE!

New rumor: Obama is not a carbon based lifeform; I've never seen proof. Tea Party, please discuss.

>> ^ponceleon:

The problem is that people don't understand the mentality of the lunatic fringe. Evidence is not evidence for them, it is just "proof" of a coverup.
Basically, if they don't get the answer they want, they just continue to complain that it is all a conspiracy.


And if you read the comments on youtube you will see exactly that. All sorts of conspiracy crap even to the point of saying it's a CIA produced document and everyone on youtube that's laughing at, or trolling/refuting the birthers bullshit conspiracy theories are now PAID CIA trolls sent there to make them look stupid and/or cover up the truth. Either that, or they are on Hillary Clinton's Internet Misinformation/Control Campaign. LOL! Man, and I thought I was nuts for my 9/11 crap. These guys take the proverbial cake!

I've seen the longform certificate, and it's shopped. I can tell from the pixels and having seen some 'shops in my time.

And the response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVTjrY8G_G0&feature=player_embedded
What a massive massive cock.

Oo, oo! Let's make a "post your favorite" thread for this vid. Mine is:

"They killed Kennedy.. they can make a fake B.cert"

>> ^Duckman33:
And if you read the comments on youtube you will see exactly that.>> ^ponceleon:

The problem is that people don't understand the mentality of the lunatic fringe. Evidence is not evidence for them, it is just "proof" of a coverup.
Basically, if they don't get the answer they want, they just continue to complain that it is all a conspiracy.

I really don't get it. Obama seems to be living in some fantasy universe where the people who're pulling this birther shit just don't understand his side of things. A universe in which the grievances that people have are always at least partially legitimate, and people simply need to be understood.

They're just mental. Whatever powers of sense, logic, reason and rationalism they may have once had have long since been replaced by fear and paranoia. Not every situation deserves a diplomatic approach. In releasing the long form birth certificate, he's giving the conspiracy theorists, psychotics and closet racists a shot of legitimacy. I understand that he wanted this shit done with before the election campaigns really get going but, if he actually thought that giving them what they asked for would work, he's an idiot.

There are enough issues with Obama's track record for people to take issue with without ranting on about how he's a gay islamic Kenyan marxist. If someone IS ranting on about how he's a gay islamic Kenyan marxist, rather than the actual issues that hold a position in objectively verifiable reality, they're not worth listening to. Fuck 'em.

*debunked

It does seem like the right-wing consensus will be to just double-down on the original racist dog whistle, rather than shift to one of the others they've tried out since 2007.

I certainly look forward to the Republican primary debate questions about this.

Adding video to channels (Debunked) - requested by NetRunner.

>> ^ponceleon:

The problem is that people don't understand the mentality of the lunatic fringe. Evidence is not evidence for them, it is just "proof" of a coverup.
Basically, if they don't get the answer they want, they just continue to complain that it is all a conspiracy.


The problem is that the "lunatic fringe" is made up of 69% of all Republicans. America, you are fucked.

Do those who oppose Obama hate him because he's (half) Black? Some do, but the left now likes to proclaim that being upset with corruption and incompetence from anyone but Whites is "racism". This is ridiculous in the extreme.

This latest stunt doesn't help high unemployment, high gas prices or the sinking dollar.

Two more years and Ears can take his long form to the unemployment office.

In response to this, as per usual, the goalposts are already being shifted.

Nope still dont believe it Obama I know you were really born in Djiboiti to a goat impregnated by Beelzebub

... and Obama further divides the Republican voter base.

Of course there are people who still won't believe Obama is a citizen... something like 47% of Republicans? They'll still lean toward candidates who question Obama's legitimacy, but who else will vote for such a candidate?

At the same time, how can a "mainstream" candidate even hint at a controversy over the birth certificate now and not destroy support from moderates?

Let Trump take credit all he wants. He'll never get elected so at best he'll just soak up votes that would otherwise go to a more viable candidate.

It might not end up working in Obama's favor, but this looks like a very calculated move from what I've seen.

My Fave Reddit comments:

"Obama, I'm not convinced, I need to see some placenta."

Reply:

"Damn you Afterbirthers."

>> ^ponceleon:

The problem is that people don't understand the mentality of the lunatic fringe. Evidence is not evidence for them, it is just "proof" of a coverup.
Basically, if they don't get the answer they want, they just continue to complain that it is all a conspiracy.


I think Obama knows this isn't going to satisfy fringe "birthers". They have long since immunized themselves against evidence; it's always been a faith-based position.

What it is going to do is make any Republican presidential candidate who persists in questioning his birthplace seem completely out of touch with reality, or like they're pandering to idiots. Mostly that was already the case, but Sarah Palin's lighter conspiracy theory that there was maybe "something embarrassing" on his original birth certificate almost seemed reasonable just by contrast with the distilled insanity of other theories. It IS a relief to know the president wasn't born with a barbed tail. I'm sure the doctor would have noted that in the comments section.

Would you please stop babbling and step into reality.

Talk to Dag or Blankfist or Dystopian or Me or even.. Westy for fuck's sake.

We're all ACTUAL people who have identified Obama's corruption, incompetence, & hypocrisy for what it is to varying extents. None of us would ever call a person racist for agreeing with this understanding of events.

Stop hiding behind your extremist rhetoric and engage in an ACTUAL dialogue with left leaners and you'd realize that we all want the same thing.

It's only you and the douche bag neo-liberals who are your polar opposite, too caught up in dogmatic cheerleading, which are holding the rest of us back.

Assholes.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Do those who oppose Obama hate him because he's (half) Black? Some do, but the left now likes to proclaim that being upset with corruption and incompetence from anyone but Whites is "racism". This is ridiculous in the extreme.
This latest stunt doesn't help high unemployment, high gas prices or the sinking dollar.
Two more years and Ears can take his long form to the unemployment office.

Hahaha at the end, that bitch laughed like this

A "gaggle"???? As in a flock of geese? Do they have to use that term on television?

im embarrassed that this is even making headlines..........ugh

So now they have to see if he really is a human?

Am I the only one who noticed the evil eye from the male reporter when the lady interrupted him mid-sentence at 0:52? And her indignation after his revenge at 1:09?

>> ^quantumushroom:

What could it possibly take to convince you that Obama is a citizen?
The 'Long Form' Birth Certificate, which has never been made public. There's your answer.
You liberals and your charges of racism (and name-calling)---a total fking embarrassment. I'm embarrassed this is the extent of your logic and reason, but after being brainwashed in government schools it would be too much to expect more.
If there's one color I hate about Obama, it's communist RED. And once again, were it proven tomorrow The Messiah were Kenyan-born, he wouldn't step down anyway.


quantumushroom 1, meet quantumushroom 2.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Do those who oppose Obama hate him because he's (half) Black? Some do, but the left now likes to proclaim that being upset with corruption and incompetence from anyone but Whites is "racism". This is ridiculous in the extreme.
This latest stunt doesn't help high unemployment, high gas prices or the sinking dollar.
Two more years and Ears can take his long form to the unemployment office.

So where's the incongruity? His Earness finally released it. He's still the worst President since Carter.


>> ^RedSky:

>> ^quantumushroom:
What could it possibly take to convince you that Obama is a citizen?
The 'Long Form' Birth Certificate, which has never been made public. There's your answer.
You liberals and your charges of racism (and name-calling)---a total fking embarrassment. I'm embarrassed this is the extent of your logic and reason, but after being brainwashed in government schools it would be too much to expect more.
If there's one color I hate about Obama, it's communist RED. And once again, were it proven tomorrow The Messiah were Kenyan-born, he wouldn't step down anyway.

quantumushroom 1, meet quantumushroom 2.
>> ^quantumushroom:
Do those who oppose Obama hate him because he's (half) Black? Some do, but the left now likes to proclaim that being upset with corruption and incompetence from anyone but Whites is "racism". This is ridiculous in the extreme.
This latest stunt doesn't help high unemployment, high gas prices or the sinking dollar.
Two more years and Ears can take his long form to the unemployment office.

GenjiKilpatrick:

Would you please stop babbling and step into reality.

>>> You're the one on the unicorn.

Talk to Dag or Blankfist or Dystopian or Me or even.. Westy for fuck's sake.


>>> I have, and will again.

We're all ACTUAL people who have identified Obama's corruption, incompetence, & hypocrisy for what it is to varying extents.

>>> You have collectively been disappointed that His Earness hasn't closed Gitmo, ended the wars, brought about universal health care, etc. That's not the same as noting corruption and incompetence. Hypocrisy, incompetence and corruption are endemic to politics, but there are degrees of severity. This guy has made us a laughingstock amongst our enemies and his trillion dollars of spending haven't done JACK SQUAT to "fix" the economy. America is living on borrowed time, money and Vaseline and the dunce is out golfing while the world burns. The only way to stay sane is to assume that was his plan all along, taking America down a notch in the name of social justice. To imagine any other outcome means he's a total n00b (which he is).


None of us would ever call a person racism for agreeing with this understanding of events.

With apologies because Netrunner isn't here to comment on his comment:
----------

It does seem like the right-wing consensus will be to just double-down on the original racist dog whistle, rather than shift to one of the others they've tried out since 2007.

----------

Stop hiding behind your extremist rhetoric and engage in an ACTUAL dialogue with left leaners and you'd realize that we all want the same thing.

>>> It's sad that demanding a reasonably-sized government answerable to the Constitution is now considered "extremist". The left views free market capitalism as exploitive and evil (to an extent true) while "my" side sees it as the fastest and most efficient way to lift people out of poverty. It's impossible to argue anything without common ground, and the reality is, not everyone in life ends up a winner, due to poor choices, heredity or plain bad luck. It's not government's job to right every wrong.

It's only you and the douche bag neo-liberals who are your polar opposite, too caught up in dogmatic cheerleading, which are holding the rest of us back.

>>> If that belief comforts you...

>>> The Constitution is a "holding back" document, meant to limit the power of government. If you're waiting for government to make your life extraordinary and make everyone happy and equal, you could be immortal and still not have enough time.

>>> If the American people aren't smart enough to elect someone else besides BHO, they get what they deserve. Hell, they already have.

The Obama should tell everyone who asks why he caved, that he just wanted to see the Donald's tax returns.

>> ^quantumushroom:

With apologies because Netrunner isn't here to comment on his comment:
----------

It does seem like the right-wing consensus will be to just double-down on the original racist dog whistle, rather than shift to one of the others they've tried out since 2007.

----------
Stop hiding behind your extremist rhetoric and engage in an ACTUAL dialogue with left leaners and you'd realize that we all want the same thing.
>>> It's sad that demanding a reasonably-sized government answerable to the Constitution is now considered "extremist".

I'm easilly summoned, just put an @ sign in front of my name, and I'll appear.

I don't think living up to the Constitutional requirements are "extremist", what I think is that Obama met the legal standards all the way back when he got on the ballot. I think the witch hunt we've seen the right go on has pretty obviously not been about the Constitution, but about the refusal to accept the legitimacy of a black Democrat being President.

I'm sure for some people it's more about the "Democrat" half than the "black" half, but it's never really been about the documents or the Constitution.

>> ^quantumushroom:
The left views free market capitalism as exploitive and evil (to an extent true) while "my" side sees it as the fastest and most efficient way to lift people out of poverty. It's impossible to argue anything without common ground, and the reality is, not everyone in life ends up a winner, due to poor choices, heredity or plain bad luck. It's not government's job to right every wrong.

I think a lot of the problem I have with the right is that they see distributive justice and market prosperity as being mutually exclusive, and that there's some a priori reason government shouldn't be about righting every wrong.

Personally, I think markets are a good thing on the whole, and I wouldn't get rid of them. I think the difference is that when they lead to human suffering, I think that's a black mark on markets as a societal mechanism, while on the right it seems like if the market causes a human to suffer, that human should have a black mark on them. It comes across to me (and probably most liberals) like some weird superstitious cult: "he got laid off when the recession hit, therefore we should not give him medicine when he gets sick for fear that it would anger the gods of moral hazard."

I think the only reason to shy away from trying to have government "right every wrong" would be over practical concerns -- I don't think we can always properly recognize every wrong, I know that we can't substantively help with them all, and I do recognize that government is still comprised of fallible human beings who might do stupid or immoral things. But, if there's a clear way to recognize them, a straightforward way to help, and we set up reasonable checks and balances against stupidity or evilness, then I see no reason not to try it out.

@NetRunner

"And now we go live to the President's briefing."

Obama: "Hey Donald, official certificate's not good enough for ya? Well I got the long form right here ..." (unzips pants)

>> ^quantumushroom:

So where's the incongruity? His Earness finally released it. He's still the worst President since Carter.

There is no incongruity. It's just a reminder that you are wrong, yet again. The amount of idiotic bullshit contained in your posts is quite consistent.

M'eh - conspiracy theorists are what they are and some percentage of a large population is going to agree with almost any theory that gets cooked up. The 9/11 Truthers are a far better example of this than the Obama Birthers. The idiotic conspiracy theory about 9/11 being a Bush inside job so he could declare war on Iraq to 'finish what his daddy started' and all that other bologna has not gone away to this day. The whole blood for oil crowd belongs in that bucket. You really think an electronic scan of a document is going to satisfy the die-hards? Haw.

The real issue here is the neo-lib kook left's continuous and increasingly plaintive and DESPERATE attempt to try and paint anyone who opposes Obama for ANY reason as a crazy birther, or racist. Completely untrue. A lot of people say they have 'doubts', or 'aren't sure' or other fuzzy comments of that sort when asked about Obama's birth. But very few people (GOP, Tea Party, whatever) say that Obama was definitely NOT born in the US, and should be removed from office because he isn't a citizen. Those who spit that hate speech to falsely denigrate an opposing group are just as crazy and prone to wearing tin-foil hats as the radical birthers.

The fact is that when polled, MOST AMERICANS (not just GOP) have said they were 'not sure' if he was born in the US or not. This isn't because they're birthers. It's because they have seen this guy's outlandish, anti-American behavior and just plain do not see Obama as "American".

Heck, even Obama doesn't see himself as an American really. He keeps going on and on about how great China is, and how great some other country is, and how wonderful Hugo Chavez is, and how great Islamic dictators like Amadinijad & Asad are, and how fantastic it is to bow to the Saudis, and I'm just getting warmed up. The guy can't open his mouth without saying how great everywhere ELSE is, while the same time whining about how Americans are stupid, gun-totin', bible thumpin', fuel burnin' jerks every time he goes anywhere. Not to mention his downright anti-constitutional behavior domestically with his czars, and ramming laws through, and ignoring court orders, and ignoring laws Congress passes, and NOT enforcing laws that already exist because he doesn't like them... And his constant arrogance and hypocrisy when he insults people (like Ryan) while in the next breath saying how everyone else has to stop being 'mean' (I could fill pages with lists of his double-speak jerky hypocritical arrogance). Add that to his crazy-@$$ pastors, his ties to terrorists like Ayres, his fanatical secrecy in hiding his past, his criminal tie (Rezko) and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON.

Needless to say that the bulk of America has doubts about this pathetic clown not because of his birth certificate - but because of everything else. So when the radical birthers come along, they may not really beleive he was foreign born but they see Obama the man himself and think, "Well... MAYBE..." Just like there was always enough about Bush for the bulk of America to think "Well... MAYBE..." when the 9/11 Truther spouted their bilge.

God damnit... Obama really fed the trolls on this one

There is another post that suggested how altered it is. Proof!!! Obama Birth Certificate Fraud. I'm not an Alex Jones fan but wanted to see what he had to say.

If this IS a original birth certificate than there would not be layers other that the document and the background.

I went to this link White house link to the document downloaded OBAMA certificate. and I was able to pull it apart. I have been around photoshop / Illustrator / Adobe products for the last 15 years

This is clearly an altered document.


Download it and open it up in illustrator

You too will realize how altered it is.

Interesting reading on the new era of birtherism in this post-long form world:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/04/joshs_new_taxonomy_of_birtherism.php

That comment by WP is incredible. Obama does not see himself as American because he apparently likes other countries? What does that mean, in your mind? That if someone admires China in any respect they cannot 'be' American? That a real American President likes only America, and no other countries?

The mind boggles. I still don't know if WP is a parody of a right wing hack, or a genuine one.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

It's because they have seen this guy's outlandish, anti-American behavior and just plain do not see Obama as "American".
Heck, even Obama doesn't see himself as an American really. He keeps going on and on about how great China is, and how great some other country is, and how wonderful Hugo Chavez is, and how great Islamic dictators like Amadinijad & Asad are, and how fantastic it is to bow to the Saudis, and I'm just getting warmed up. The guy can't open his mouth without saying how great everywhere ELSE is, while the same time whining about how Americans are stupid, gun-totin', bible thumpin', fuel burnin' jerks every time he goes anywhere. Not to mention his downright anti-constitutional behavior domestically with his czars, and ramming laws through, and ignoring court orders, and ignoring laws Congress passes, and NOT enforcing laws that already exist because he doesn't like them... And his constant arrogance and hypocrisy when he insults people (like Ryan) while in the next breath saying how everyone else has to stop being 'mean' (I could fill pages with lists of his double-speak jerky hypocritical arrogance). Add that to his crazy-@$$ pastors, his ties to terrorists like Ayres, his fanatical secrecy in hiding his past, his criminal tie (Rezko) and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON.

wow..


Ok lets see the transcript or video where Obama explains how great Amadinijad or Chaves is. and yeah, I remember seeing some photos of a US president sucking up to the saudis, holding hands, kissing etc, but it wasnt this one. Obama may have greeted someone with a ceremonial bow, but he didnt cuddle. And when exactly did Obama whine about how Americans are stupid, gun-totin', bible thumpin', fuel burnin' jerks?(shouldnt be hard to find evidence of this, since he does it EVERY time he goes anywhere, apparantly)

Yeah, and what about all that fanatical secrecy in hiding his past, does he really think he can get away with writing just 2 books about it? I heard he even went AWOL for the booze, hookers and coke, and his daddy had to pull some strings.. oh fuck.. wrong president... oh, well. And yeah whats up with those crazy ass Pastors, eh? I hear he even has weekly calls with Ted Haggard ... Oh, that wasnt him either? Oh, I see, some priest in a church he went to said something really stupid.. oh, theres a shocker from the people who thinks crackers turns into the flesh of 2000 year old dead jewish zombiegods when you mumble latin to them. Saying stupid, unbelievable shit is their job. unfortunately, every president lately seems to like them anyways.

The hypocrisy is in it instantly going from an issue to raise, to being completely unimportant when it doesn't fit your preconceived views. And for the record:

- Every economic forecast worth it's damn before Obama was elected projected unemployment to remain high for a prolonged period of time. It's historically what happens after financial crises. The talking points that the blogs you read are pushing were being drafted by conservative interest groups while he was being inaugurated.
- Tell me what magical wand Obama will wield to bring down gas prices.
- A low US dollar helps exports and assists in transforming the economy from consumption to investment/productivity based one.>> ^quantumushroom:

So where's the incongruity? His Earness finally released it. He's still the worst President since Carter.

That a real American President likes only America, and no other countries?

No – a real American President can like other countries, but has to like America more.

and what about all that fanatical secrecy in hiding his past

All the Bush stuff does nothing but prove my point. There was enough shady stuff in Bush’s past for conspiracy theorists to hang a hat on. Obama is 10X worse. So when conspiracy theorists come along, the average person may not believe the extremes – but there’s more than enough flesh on the skeleton to make them have enough doubts to not dismiss it entirely.

But let's get real. It isn't just the GOP here that is driving this story. The issue here is that Obama's numbers are plummeting across the ENTIRE spectrum. Obama has been hemhorraging Independants, Moderates, and even DEMOCRATS for months. His policies are complete failures. His objectives are counter-intuitive disasters. The people gave him a chance, and he blew it. So they're dumping this epic-fail and in response he's getting desperate.

I'm 100% certain he was sitting on his birth cert and WAITING for just ONE serious GOP contender to start carping about it. None of them ever did. I'm also 100% sure that Trump has no intention of really running. But when he started trending up in the polls, Obama decided to pull the trigger. It wasn't what Obama wanted, but it woudl have to do because clearly all the REAL opponents were not taking the bait.

Then Obama gives a stupid speech about the birth certificate where he is literally WHINING like a moronic jackass about how he's got "important stuff to do". But for two WEEKS he's been doing nothing but going out and FUNDRAISING for his re-election. Total hypocrite. So whatever good will he thought he was going to get just went right out the window. And his poll numbers tanked again. No surprise there.

Tell me what magical wand Obama will wield to bring down gas prices.

The magic wand is a SENSIBLE multi-pronged energy policy. For decades the US policy on domestic energy production has been one of constriction, restriction, and eviction. Permits are denied. Lawsuits are constant. The cost of doing business is so high that companies go overseas, leaving domestic energy production hanging by its fingertips and with very little wiggle room when events start causing uncertainty in the market. A sensible policy would support aggressive domestic production of ALL energy sources – fossil, nuclear, bio, hydro, geo, solar & wind – not just one or two of them. ANY policy would be better than Obama's. His plan is to cram everyone in $50,000 golf carts.

I still think Obama's a Keynesian.

Now THAT is true.

Seriously though - I can't think of a single person in the GOP of any note that is a "birther" in the sense that they don't think Obama was born in Hawaii. So far it seems to me that the cuckoo far-left fringe and their media shills (MSNBC) are far more obsessed with this issue than anyone on the right. MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NTY, AP, et al are running 'birther' stories at a 4 to 1 ratio compared to FOX News. People that are whining "Let it go!" should be directing their venom at the left wing media complex, not the birthers.

But of course the neo-lib media won't let it go because it gives them a way to do what they do best... That is to deliberately screw up terminology, perception, and language in order to paint the sins of a tiny fringe with a big fat brush onto anyone they don't like. Now all the liberally biased media outlets are literally screaming like frothing lunatics that anyone who wants to see 'records' is a racist/bigot.

Bullcrap. There are people who want to see Obama's records. There is NOTHING WRONG with that. Any person who runs for ANY public office from Dogcatcher to President should be willing and able to supply any and all records on request. That is not a big deal. Just because people want to see Obama's records doesn't make them either 'birthers' or racists. That's just a load of garbage that neo-lib left wing propogandists are screaming loudly and often in the plaintive, desperate hope that the stupid and inattentive will believe it.

But reality check time. Obama isn't the first President who had this issue swirling around him. Chester Arthur, Barry Goldwater, and John McCain just a few who have had to produce records about thier births to settle controversies. And they're all WHITE guys. So please - none of this BULLCRAP that Obama is some sort of innocent, unique victim of racism over this birth certificate issue. Give me a break. What a steaming pile of hotspur. The whole issue wasn't even STARTED by the GOP. Hillary Clinton's campaign was the first group to bring this all up.

>> ^Gallowflak:

I really don't get it. Obama seems to be living in some fantasy universe where the people who're pulling this birther shit just don't understand his side of things.

I don't think his goal was to correct the conspiracists; it was just to get the media to move on to serious topics.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

That a real American President likes only America, and no other countries?
No – a real American President can like other countries, but has to like America more.

What gives you the idea that Obama likes America less than other countries? You can say that about ANYBODY if you never have to back it up with more than "because I think so". You mentioned him "insulting" Ryan by calling his plan "unamerican", well if calling someones plan unamerican is an insult, then what the hell is this then??
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

and what about all that fanatical secrecy in hiding his past
All the Bush stuff does nothing but prove my point. There was enough shady stuff in Bush’s past for conspiracy theorists to hang a hat on. Obama is 10X worse.


How? Is there any specifics here, what exactly do you think he did that was so dark and secret? is there any evidence? is there any evidence of some cover-up? Is there ANYTHING but your own imagination? what spurred that imagination then? This is all baseless bullshit youre throwing out there, and speaking of baseless bullshit, tell me again when Obama said or expressed how great Amadinejad is.. Oh wait, you didnt the first time. Just like you couldn't back up any of your other claims.

I've listed a bunch of shady stuff from Obama's past above. Criminal land deals. Associations with domestic terrorists. Attending the sermons of blatantly racist pastors. The guy is obsessed with burying details of his past, and far too many people in the media are playing along when they should be the ones up there demanding that he explain himself and constantly bringing up his hypocrisy. They didn't mind doing it with Bush - so why are all the self-appointed "speakers of truth to power" now that Obama is President.

The sad reality is that the entire left wing media complex basically just threw off the last tattered shreds of professionalism and objectivity (if they ever had any) when Obama came along. Obama got used to just brushing off criticism because a slavishly loyal neolib press refused to push him. Now people come along who reject Obama's attempts to dive for the tall grass on his past, and the same media who refused to vet him in the first place is not making excuses for him so they don't look totally incompetent by comparison.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I've listed a bunch of shady stuff from Obama's past above. Criminal land deals. Associations with domestic terrorists. Attending the sermons of blatantly racist pastor


Right.. the so-called Ayers connection (a guy who donated 200 bucks to Obama) , a pastor who said some crazy shit, and a crook landlord. Major fucking scandals there. Lets get real, these are packets of dirt all dug up for political reasons by his opponents, and when you dig a bit deeper, as many have done, it turns out the connections are not really there at all. Its all conspiracy food for the hungry. coincidently, I saw today a report that proves some of my points to all this guilt-by-association nonsensical conspiracy theories, about a guy called Greg Mortensen (who Obama donated to, so another stain on his record btw). Watch this video: http://youtu.be/XhAb37yZ0o0

Now, Mortensen is a best-selling author, and for that(And probably because Obama donated to him), he paid the price of having reporters actually cross-check his stories and past. Turns out that much of it was bullshit, and he has some real skeletons. But lets pause for a second and consider this: How much scrutiny do you think Mortensen past has had VS Obamas past? How much time and effort was really laid down by 60 minutes in order to expose him as a fraud? A lot of good reporting and investigating, sure, and I'm sure CBS saw it as a scoop of sorts.

But imagine if someone did the same on Obama, the POTUS himself, and could reveal him as a big phony. Imagine the scoop! Right?

The sad truth is that they've done all this, like they do with every candidate, dug through their past, gone through records, interviewed friends, family, business-connections, land deals, activists, churces, photos, schools, birth cerfiticates, foreign countries and whatever else. They interviewed his fuckin grandmother in Kenya, for crying out loud.

Think for a moment, if Obama was a fraud like Mortensen, wouldn't you have something more on him by now?

By the way, my last point wasn't meant to compare Mortensen and Obama, or their pasts, but to compare the amount of exposure as public persons. Obviously, Obama is a name known worldwide by nearly everyone, because he is the POTUS. And Mortensen is known to a lot of people because he is an author and philanthropist of sorts. My point was that exposing Obama as a fraud with a dubios past would obviously be a bigger scoop than doing the same to Mortensen, and that more people have tried. Yet mortensen has largely been exposed by one 60-minutes report, and despite all efforts, all anybody can come up with on Obama is the above-mentioned crap that basically has very little to do with him.