that sucks.

but then again.. shouldn't have been burglin'.

It -must- have been self-defense...the thieves were dark-skinned. That's about as much as they need in Texas.

I really do wish they'd go ahead and secede.

"I had no choice, I had no choice! They came after me!"

Not a defensible legal reason for shooting a loaded firearm into another human being. >> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

that sucks.
but then again.. shouldn't have been burglin'.

Well he is not a Hero.

Thats for sure, we went out looking for a fight, he is no hero.

To me this is akin to a cop shooting, the whole " he came at me " routine, if you have a gun on someone and they walk towards you with a bat or a knife and threaten you, you dont shoot them in the head or heart, knee cap, leg, shoulder. there are so many places to hit and yet they all go for the chest. Double rant, police have a choice where to shoot but this dick went and looked for a reason to go out of his way and fire his gun, why not fire it in the air or at a tree... He had enough time to think of alternatives, put him in jail. Put police in jail as well for similar offenses.

Unless the shooter was a cop. Then it's perfectly legal! = ]

Yes, it's fucked up and wrong to shoot an unarmed person in the back.
And yes, Mr. Horn should sit in jail for a few years to think about what he's done.

However, it's pretty dumb to rob people in a state full of gun nuts.

Twas a calculated risk that didn't pan out.
>> ^notarobot:

Not a defensible legal reason for shooting a loaded firearm into another human being. >> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
that sucks.
but then again.. shouldn't have been burglin'.

Joe Horn didn't know his neighbors, didn't know what was stolen, didn't care. And although the 911 operator advised him that, "ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over", Joe Horn knew that he was gonna shoot him some brown people.

No one deserves a death sentence for stealing.

Long live Dixie!!! Hurrah!!!

*promote

Self promoting this video back to the front page; last published Thursday, December 8th, 2011 8:22pm PST - promote requested by original submitter deathcow.

The Civil War never ended.

At least a death sentence involves a trial!>> ^Enzoblue:

No one deserves a death sentence for stealing.

I don't feel bad about the two men that were shot, however, nobody's life was at risk so I can't really backup the guy that shot them. There is a chance, however, that he might be unaware of the well-being of his neighbors (ie, they might have been inside, injured, or incapacitated). Both parties took risks, if I had to measure which one's risk was for the right reasons, I'd lean toward the side of the shooter. It's not a pretty situation. Not all situations have a pretty solution.

Disproportionate use of force I believe it's called. Any sane person can see that this is wrong on a great many levels, the problem is the insane make the rules.

Joe Horn shooting controversy -wiki

What part of this isn't murder? There is a very strong element of voluntarism to this guys actions as well as a lack of necessity.

What part isn't vigilantism? There is a very strong sense of taking justice into his own hands and disregarding the laws of the land as explicitly stated by the 911 operator.

This gentleman needs to be made an example of due to the perception of disrespect for both law and peoples right to life (which should trump most all else).

Some people watch too many cowboy movies and dream of getting to play hero... I'm surprised he even called 911.

>> ^braindonut:

Some people watch too many cowboy movies and dream of getting to play hero... I'm surprised he even called 911.

He wanted to make sure his "heroism" was properly recorded for posterity.

This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.

Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

>> ^Hive13:

This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.


No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.

Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Hive13:
This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.
Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.


So, I should just let convicted felon illegal immigrants with a vast criminal history just walk into my house and take whatever they want, in the presence of my wife and four children? What fucking planet do you live on? There are many people out there that would kill you and anyone in your house for $50.

The right to defend your property is an American right from the very beginning of this country. It isn't about property in the material sense....who cares about that? It is property in the sense that my wife and kids needs to feel safe and secure in their own home in their own beds.

In this case, I would have watched them from inside my home, called 911 and waited. If they headed toward my house, you had better believe that there would be one of my several guns in my hand ready to stop them from entering my house. If they did actually enter, they would get one warning and then they would get shot. Period.

If you don't live in America, I don't expect you to understand, but we have a lot of bad people here with bigger guns and no issue at all with murdering an entire family, kids and all, for an Xbox.

We should work hard for weeks/months of our lives to better our standard of living, and then we should elevate people who would just take our hard earned property to a position of authority over us. It should be enough to step out front on our front yards and yell "STOP! You STOP with that! Bring my stuff back! I spent my LIFE working for that!" It's not like they are taking your life.. they are just taking the months of time you slogged away stupidly working for a living. You should be happy! You can always spend the next six months replacing the valuables they took, and if they are smart, they can come back and take it all again! Sucker!

>> ^Hive13:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Hive13:
This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.
Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.

So, I should just let convicted felon illegal immigrants with a vast criminal history just walk into my house and take whatever they want, in the presence of my wife and four children? What fucking planet do you live on? There are many people out there that would kill you and anyone in your house for $50.
The right to defend your property is an American right from the very beginning of this country. It isn't about property in the material sense....who cares about that? It is property in the sense that my wife and kids needs to feel safe and secure in their own home in their own beds.
In this case, I would have watched them from inside my home, called 911 and waited. If they headed toward my house, you had better believe that there would be one of my several guns in my hand ready to stop them from entering my house. If they did actually enter, they would get one warning and then they would get shot. Period.
If you don't live in America, I don't expect you to understand, but we have a lot of bad people here with bigger guns and no issue at all with murdering an entire family, kids and all, for an Xbox.


WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!? It wasn't his home...his neighbors weren't fucking there. They were absolutely NO THREAT. Are you just making shit up to get mad about or something?

Also yes I live in America, I've lived in some of the worst areas of Southern California. Never had a problem because this epidemic of bad people coming into your home and murdering you doesn't exist.

However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.


We have no idea what they were stealing. It could have been worth a substantial portion of this guys work over a lifetime.

Yogi, I guess you neglected to read the part where they were both killed ON HIS PROPERTY. He went out there to stop stall them until the police arrived(stupidly), they came after him entering his property and he then killed them.

Did he shout "Stop!" or "I have a gun!" or "Put your hands up!" or "Drop the stuff!" or "Citizen's arrest!"

No.

He shouted "You're Dead" and then shot them both in cold blood. He wasn't convicted because he was a white man in Texas.

@deathcow
They stole $2000 dollars and some jewels. Judging by the size of the house it would be about two or three months pay? [pretty easily replaced]

@Hive13
So if I set one foot in your front yard. That's justification for murder? Please Hive, use your brain. Not your guttural inclinations.

@Hanover_Phist's comment really hit the nail on the head.

Nevertheless, shouldn't have been burglin'. Problem solved.

OK I'm trolling a bit there to test the waters. That was my thought seeing the video too the "You're dead!" couldn't have boded well for the guy in grand jury.

Essentially you are saying you support a blood-thirsty murderer over two property-coveting thieves. Whoopee.

>> ^rottenseed:

I don't feel bad about the two men that were shot, however, nobody's life was at risk so I can't really backup the guy that shot them. There is a chance, however, that he might be unaware of the well-being of his neighbors (ie, they might have been inside, injured, or incapacitated). Both parties took risks, if I had to measure which one's risk was for the right reasons, I'd lean toward the side of the shooter. It's not a pretty situation. Not all situations have a pretty solution.

Hive, I would do the same, but this is far from what happened in this particular case.>> ^Hive13:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Hive13:
This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.
Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.

So, I should just let convicted felon illegal immigrants with a vast criminal history just walk into my house and take whatever they want, in the presence of my wife and four children? What fucking planet do you live on? There are many people out there that would kill you and anyone in your house for $50.
The right to defend your property is an American right from the very beginning of this country. It isn't about property in the material sense....who cares about that? It is property in the sense that my wife and kids needs to feel safe and secure in their own home in their own beds.
In this case, I would have watched them from inside my home, called 911 and waited. If they headed toward my house, you had better believe that there would be one of my several guns in my hand ready to stop them from entering my house. If they did actually enter, they would get one warning and then they would get shot. Period.
If you don't live in America, I don't expect you to understand, but we have a lot of bad people here with bigger guns and no issue at all with murdering an entire family, kids and all, for an Xbox.

I disagree. Burglars loose all their rights once they enter anothers home.

The neighbor did right. he protected himself. He should be commended.


>> ^Yogi:

Disproportionate use of force I believe it's called. Any sane person can see that this is wrong on a great many levels, the problem is the insane make the rules.

>> ^bobknight33:

I disagree. Burglars loose all their rights once they enter anothers home.
The neighbor did right. he protected himself. He should be commended.

>> ^Yogi:
Disproportionate use of force I believe it's called. Any sane person can see that this is wrong on a great many levels, the problem is the insane make the rules.



I want you to try and think really hard about a scenario where this would not be the proper way to respond. I'll give you a hint...it ended with a Beer at the White House.

>> ^Hive13:

Yogi, I guess you neglected to read the part where they were both killed ON HIS PROPERTY. He went out there to stop stall them until the police arrived(stupidly), they came after him entering his property and he then killed them.


So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!

You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

In Texas, yes. Whether or not it is morally defensible is entirely different from legality.
>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
So if I set one foot in your front yard. That's justification for murder?

I agree with duojet. This guy is a sociopath. He tried to get the consent of law to commit murder, and when they wouldn't give it to him he just went out and did it anyway. I get the feeling that many (if not most) gun enthusiasts have sociopathic tendencies and fantasize about scenarios in which they can justifiably murder people, preferably classes of people they have no empathy for.

>> ^Yogi:

So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.


I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.

FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.

>> ^Hive13:

>> ^Yogi:
So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.


Ok here's something that unnullifies my point. My mother was raped and murdered while she was alone in our home when I was 3. I still believe that you cannot just decide someone is deserving of having no life immediately when they trespass or rob you and I do not agree with the Castle Doctrine the most insane piece of legislation since 3 strikes.

So again...Go Fuck Yourself and learn maybe ONE DAY that the world is Not black and white. There isn't a good and an evil, it's all gray.

Well there's an epiphany for ya. Our national genetic material comes from murderers, thieves and the criminally insane. We love war and death and guns and weapons of mass destruction. We have high rates of violent crime. Our cinema, television programs, videogames and music are fixated on fear and violence. We are angry and anxiety ridden, gobbling up illegal, over the counter and prescription drugs in massive quantities. Are all of us part of the sickness? If we were, how would we know it? Sorry for the grim thoughts. >> ^Skeeve:

Maybe it's just because I just finished reading Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" but sometimes I feel like if we "evacuated" all thieves for a few generations we wouldn't have this problem to begin with.

Lets blame violent video games, for both sides of this encounter.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelephant. The law is what it is.
>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Hive13:
>> ^Yogi:
So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.

Ok here's something that unnullifies my point. My mother was raped and murdered while she was alone in our home when I was 3. I still believe that you cannot just decide someone is deserving of having no life immediately when they trespass or rob you and I do not agree with the Castle Doctrine the most insane piece of legislation since 3 strikes.
So again...Go Fuck Yourself and learn maybe ONE DAY that the world is Not black and white. There isn't a good and an evil, it's all gray.

>> ^gwiz665:

irrelephant.

LOVE IT!

Whatever point you were making is lost in your juvenility.Try leaving out the personal insults next time, you might be saying something worth hearing.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Hive13:
>> ^Yogi:
So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.

Ok here's something that unnullifies my point. My mother was raped and murdered while she was alone in our home when I was 3. I still believe that you cannot just decide someone is deserving of having no life immediately when they trespass or rob you and I do not agree with the Castle Doctrine the most insane piece of legislation since 3 strikes.
So again...Go Fuck Yourself and learn maybe ONE DAY that the world is Not black and white. There isn't a good and an evil, it's all gray.