On Charter Memberships
Guys, it's been over 4 years since we introduced Charter Memberships, and I'd like to talk about it. Some of you may know, we are approaching our 5th Siftiversary on February 17th. Lucky and I are discussing making some changes to the social mechanisms of VideoSift - one of the things we're considering is phasing out Charter Memberships.
There are a couple reasons why we're considering this change. The first is that it's not a great financial supporter for the community. Most months we bring in about $200 for charter memberships. I promise - I'm not stating this to guilt you in to upgrading- but this is just a bald statement of fact.
The second reason for phasing out Charter Memberships is that in our 5th year, we're fighting against cruft and entropy. As a community ages - systems get layered on systems, confusion grows, *neglect* sets in and chaos raises its head. I'm all for having a complex, rich community culture on VideoSift - but personally I don't feel the charter memberships help us in that regard. It's just cumbersome to manage, confusing to use and raises the awkward concept of how money plays into our largely meritocratic community.
So what we were thinking is to distribute the privileges of Charter membership into our existing star system. eg. coloured comments for gold stars, higher queue quota for silver stars etc.
Some other things to think about- this would mean the return of ads for all members and power points would only be distributed on merit.
This is not something that would happen immediately, don't worry if you've just bought a Charter Membership - there would be a gradual phase out. Depending on the community's reaction - it might not happen at all - or something entirely different might arise. That's how we work. So, what say ye all?
There are a couple reasons why we're considering this change. The first is that it's not a great financial supporter for the community. Most months we bring in about $200 for charter memberships. I promise - I'm not stating this to guilt you in to upgrading- but this is just a bald statement of fact.
The second reason for phasing out Charter Memberships is that in our 5th year, we're fighting against cruft and entropy. As a community ages - systems get layered on systems, confusion grows, *neglect* sets in and chaos raises its head. I'm all for having a complex, rich community culture on VideoSift - but personally I don't feel the charter memberships help us in that regard. It's just cumbersome to manage, confusing to use and raises the awkward concept of how money plays into our largely meritocratic community.
So what we were thinking is to distribute the privileges of Charter membership into our existing star system. eg. coloured comments for gold stars, higher queue quota for silver stars etc.
Some other things to think about- this would mean the return of ads for all members and power points would only be distributed on merit.
This is not something that would happen immediately, don't worry if you've just bought a Charter Membership - there would be a gradual phase out. Depending on the community's reaction - it might not happen at all - or something entirely different might arise. That's how we work. So, what say ye all?
34 Comments
dagComment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)
*sticky
siftbotStickying this post at the top of Sift Talk - sticky requested by dag.
BoneRemakeI made a comment about those Canada Savings Bond ads a couple months ago, ant may remember, he downvoted it
I was sincere when I said it, I wanted to help the sift for a while now, but one of the major turning points other than being able to afford it, was those ads. I wanted to punch my screen every time my mouse went over it, I thought it would be nice, as well as cheaper to contribute a percentage of what a new monitor costs to you, and sidestep the major problem I had with the site. I really.. Really Dislike ads, and now I may have to go back to them, this I do not like, that is bad ju ju.
HybridGiving, say, silver members and above bigger queues will surely just result in even more videos being posted (obviously), yet there are already complaints from some people about how hard it can sometimes be to get a video sifted. With more unsifted videos being posted, it'll be easier for "good" videos to get lost in amongst them all.
My opinion is stick with 3 for everyone. It forces people to think a little bit more carefully about what to submit. Thereby helping to maintain a certain level of quality in the videos posted.
eric3579^ i second that motion. More quality!
BoneRemakeAlthough it somewhat eats at me, I have to agree, leaving it with less ability to post would mean people would second guess posting the cream over the shit soup underneath.
dagComment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)
Good point on that. Maybe we should bring that particular area back to a level playing field. We could even adjust it further, eg.
Probationary = 1 queue slot
standard = 2 queue slots
bronze = 3 queue slots
...
Diamond = 4
>> ^Hybrid:
Giving, say, silver members and above bigger queues will surely just result in even more videos being posted (obviously), yet there are already complaints from some people about how hard it can sometimes be to get a video sifted. With more unsifted videos being posted, it'll be easier for "good" videos to get lost in amongst them all.
My opinion is stick with 3 for everyone. It forces people to think a little bit more carefully about what to submit. Thereby helping to maintain a certain level of quality in the videos posted.
HybridYeah that sounds great. Queue slots would be nice rewards at various ranks too, and your example works well in that it's good early encouragement to get to bronze and get members more invested in the site. Having the 4th slot at diamond, rather than ruby, is also nice since there are currently no differences between the ranks.
... and besides, should someone be desperate for an extra queue slot, I assume it'll still be possible to convert 2 powerpoints into one additional queue slot for a video?>> ^dag:
Good point on that. Maybe we should bring that particular area back to a level playing field. We could even adjust it further, eg.
Probationary = 1 queue slot
standard = 2 queue slots
bronze = 3 queue slots
...
Diamond = 4
>> ^Hybrid:
Giving, say, silver members and above bigger queues will surely just result in even more videos being posted (obviously), yet there are already complaints from some people about how hard it can sometimes be to get a video sifted. With more unsifted videos being posted, it'll be easier for "good" videos to get lost in amongst them all.
My opinion is stick with 3 for everyone. It forces people to think a little bit more carefully about what to submit. Thereby helping to maintain a certain level of quality in the videos posted.
kulpimscommunism won, finally!
gwiz665WTF? That's socialist talk. Curse you, red menace! Meritocracy is the way to go. Reward those who do good, ignore those who do bad.
I don't think a flat 3 slot queue will stem the sea of shit at all, it will just make the tides smaller. People will still submit what they think is interesting, like they do now. (or should do)
>> ^Hybrid:
Giving, say, silver members and above bigger queues will surely just result in even more videos being posted (obviously), yet there are already complaints from some people about how hard it can sometimes be to get a video sifted. With more unsifted videos being posted, it'll be easier for "good" videos to get lost in amongst them all.
My opinion is stick with 3 for everyone. It forces people to think a little bit more carefully about what to submit. Thereby helping to maintain a certain level of quality in the videos posted.
gwiz665I do think that Charter is an outdated idea though, even though I enjoy its fruits. Spreading it out on the star levels would be cool, then there's nothing which can only be achieved by buying it.
dystopianfuturetodayIn dag we trust. I'm OK with whatever you think is best for the site.
rebuilderI'm not Charter, largely because I find the idea of paying for powers a bit disturbing. I wouldn't mind paying just to avoid seeing ads, depending on the sum of course.
As for something completely different... I was thinking the other day, what if the Sift allowed tipping? As in, you like a member's sift, comment, just generally find them a swell person all around - send a few coins their way. This could be done with something like, say, Bitcoin*, and maybe the Sift could take a small cut on all tips.
I haven't put that much thought into the concept yet. There may be serious legal issues with bringing compensation schemes into the system. The social effects may or may not be desirable. With Bitcoin specifically, some may well have objections to the very idea of a cryptocurrency. I'm suggesting Bitcoin because it's well suited to micropayments, as the currency can be transferred virtually free of cost. OK, also because I like the idea.
Thoughts?
*http://www.bitcoin.org
GeeSussFreeKYou aren't really paying for powers though, your paying for access to features.
"Absolutely no ads
Personal Blog
Six (6) concurrent submission slots in the unsifted queue
Two (2) Power Points per recharge period
Personal subdomain for your member profile, e.g., siftbot.videosift.com
Personalized colorizing for your username and comment background
Customizable styling for your member profile
Participation in the Sift Lounge chat room
Random Personal Queue videos listed on your profile
Use a YouTube video for your avatar image in comments"
You still don't get "double vote" power or anything that affects the meritocracy nature of the site. I guess it does buy you a little influence for promoting with the power points, but I don't really consider that a "power" like I do voting.
There could be legal problems for tipping people for others content, though I have no idea.
>> ^rebuilder:
I'm not Charter, largely because I find the idea of paying for powers a bit disturbing. I wouldn't mind paying just to avoid seeing ads, depending on the sum of course.
As for something completely different... I was thinking the other day, what if the Sift allowed tipping? As in, you like a member's sift, comment, just generally find them a swell person all around - send a few coins their way. This could be done with something like, say, Bitcoin , and maybe the Sift could take a small cut on all tips.
I haven't put that much thought into the concept yet. There may be serious legal issues with bringing compensation schemes into the system. The social effects may or may not be desirable. With Bitcoin specifically, some may well have objections to the very idea of a cryptocurrency. I'm suggesting Bitcoin because it's well suited to micropayments, as the currency can be transferred virtually free of cost. OK, also because I like the idea.
Thoughts?
http://www.bitcoin.org
ant>> ^dag:
Good point on that. Maybe we should bring that particular area back to a level playing field. We could even adjust it further, eg.
Probationary = 1 queue slot
standard = 2 queue slots
bronze = 3 queue slots
...
Diamond = 4
>> ^Hybrid:
Giving, say, silver members and above bigger queues will surely just result in even more videos being posted (obviously), yet there are already complaints from some people about how hard it can sometimes be to get a video sifted. With more unsifted videos being posted, it'll be easier for "good" videos to get lost in amongst them all.
My opinion is stick with 3 for everyone. It forces people to think a little bit more carefully about what to submit. Thereby helping to maintain a certain level of quality in the videos posted.
Gold = 5.
gwiz665I would like to see a "no ads" package for sale, and the other charter perks spread across the star levels. I know that @eric3579 is with me in the "i hate ads" club. I imagine many people don't like ads too.
gwiz665I like the way you think. User-to-user tipping. That could be really cool.
>> ^rebuilder:
I'm not Charter, largely because I find the idea of paying for powers a bit disturbing. I wouldn't mind paying just to avoid seeing ads, depending on the sum of course.
As for something completely different... I was thinking the other day, what if the Sift allowed tipping? As in, you like a member's sift, comment, just generally find them a swell person all around - send a few coins their way. This could be done with something like, say, Bitcoin , and maybe the Sift could take a small cut on all tips.
I haven't put that much thought into the concept yet. There may be serious legal issues with bringing compensation schemes into the system. The social effects may or may not be desirable. With Bitcoin specifically, some may well have objections to the very idea of a cryptocurrency. I'm suggesting Bitcoin because it's well suited to micropayments, as the currency can be transferred virtually free of cost. OK, also because I like the idea.
Thoughts?
http://www.bitcoin.org
xxovercastxx>> ^gwiz665:
I would like to see a "no ads" package for sale, and the other charter perks spread across the star levels. I know that @eric3579 is with me in the "i hate ads" club. I imagine many people don't like ads too.
How many people are really going to pay to get rid of ads on 1 site when it's so easy to eliminate them on all sites for free?
I'd be more likely to toss VS a few bucks just because I like the site than to get rid of ads (which have not been part of my VS experience in a couple years now).
BoneRemakeI think the idea of giving another member beer money because you like what they said is a right stupid backwards idea. IF I understand what you propose to coincide with what I have said.
How would you expect people to sign up for that service when they wont even sign up here and give two bits to vs ? people would rather pay other members then the service that provides it for them ?
I think im lost. Anyone got a map?
BoneRemakeSo I want to leave a comment on a different post and in the blink of an eye (less than a blink of an eye) It shoots me up to a previously opened comment bar where I insert the wrong comment. This is annoying.
dagComment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)
I thought we were talking about tipping PowerPoints - which is not a bad idea at all IMO.>> ^BoneRemake:
I think the idea of giving another member beer money because you like what they said is a right stupid backwards idea. IF I understand what you propose to coincide with what I have said.
How would you expect people to sign up for that service when they wont even sign up here and give two bits to vs ? people would rather pay other members then the service that provides it for them ?
I think im lost. Anyone got a map?
xxovercastxxI'm going to put a link to my paypal account on my profile. From then on, anyone who likes my comments can send me a dollar instead of upvoting and anyone who dislikes my comments can send me 5 dollars instead of downvoting.
HybridIf people could tip/transfer powerpoints, then won't that be an easy way of getting round spending 2 points on self-promoting a video? Just transfer a powerpoint to somebody who will then promote your video...
Also regarding tipping (of money or powerpoints), won't that just encourage people to post more comments for the hell of it, just in case somebody tips? Look how bad comments are on YouTube, now imagine if they introduced a similar tipping system. It would be terrible.
The 15 upvotes = 1 powerpoint reward for a comment is balanced I'd say.
rebuilderI was talking about tipping in currency. Powerpoints might be interesting too, though. But let's talk about what might happen with money.
@Hybrid's worry may be legitimate, although I don't personally think comment spam would necessarily increase with tipping. I think that's more a function of other social controls - there's a difference between the Sift userbase and the Youtube userbase, and whatever checks manage to keep things mostly civil here would still be in place even with tipping.
In any case, what I was mainly thinking about was tipping for good sifts, maybe also for maintenance functions. That might necessitate some kind of monthly pot to be divided among the most active fixers of dead videos, for example, but I digress.
Tipping for sifts might, if it took off, lead to a kind of curation system on top of the usual functioning of Videosift. I'm thinking of virtual TV channels in a way - long playlists of material, related or not, maybe according to some theme, maybe just on a whim. Current stuff - a collection of news broadcasts and commentary relating to a specific issue over the last week or so, for example. Things that take time and effort and skill to put together in a way that is useful and enjoyable to watch.
Maybe tipping could encourage that. Maybe it could be done anyway, maybe someone's already doing it to some extent. I'm just thinking that in addition to people coming to see what Videosift as a whole has to offer, they might come to see what a specific member has to offer at any given time, kind of like people tune in to watch The Daily Show, not just the Comedy Channel. Bottom line, I think curation is a legitimate service that the Sift could possibly benefit from, and financial incentives might encourage people to spend time on doing more extensive sifting (no pun intended) through material with an eye on creating a coherent narrative on a specific subject. The Sift could take a cut for providing the platform, or maybe ad revenue might increase if enough new viewers came on as a result. (I'm not familiar with the dynamics of ad revenue vs. server costs with increased traffic.)
This could probably be tried out quite easily. Flattr, I think, could readily be implemented here, but it would be hard for the Sift to take a cut (and I do think it deserves one) with that system. For bitcoin, there's http://www.youtipit.org , though that's beta and frankly looks ugly as hell. Also again, taking a cut would require extra work.
RyjkyjThe ads have never really bugged me.
kronosposeidonHi, I'm DFT, and I like blowing the boss.>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
In dag we trust. I'm OK with whatever you think is best for the site.
blankfistGoogle ad words in every comment block. The more we comment, the more money you make. Problem solved.
Ad by Google
Watch Movies Online
Watch Movies Instantly Online Now.
No Fees. 6,000+ Titles Available!
netflix.com is rated
Rated 4.6 out of 5.0
www.netflix.com
dagComment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)
That would suck verily. >> ^blankfist:
Google ad words in every comment block. The more we comment, the more money you make. Problem solved.
Ad by Google
Watch Movies Online
Watch Movies Instantly Online Now.
No Fees. 6,000+ Titles Available!
netflix.com is rated
Rated 4.6 out of 5.0
www.netflix.com
kronosposeidon6000+ titles available, you say?
>> ^blankfist:
Google ad words in every comment block. The more we comment, the more money you make. Problem solved.
Ad by Google
Watch Movies Online
Watch Movies Instantly Online Now.
No Fees. 6,000+ Titles Available!
netflix.com is rated
Rated 4.6 out of 5.0
www.netflix.com
SagemindWell, hey - Dag...
I'm not picky, change and evolution is a healthy choice.
What ever you guys choose is good with me. In fact it all sounds like a great idea.
I do wish there was a new way to gain the odd additional star point though.
Like maybe with every badge level.
rottenseed>> ^kronosposeidon:
Hi, I'm DFT, and I like blowing the boss.>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
In dag we trust. I'm OK with whatever you think is best for the site.
bamdrewWow, I made it to 2011 without hearing the term 'cruft'. ... useful term!
Also I'll point out that one man's cruft is another man's creasure.
( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Creasure )
notarobotThe only time ads on here that have ever really bugged me was when an accidental rollover would cause them to grow and cover half the window. I haven't seen those in a while and I don't miss them. Ads popping up inside videos is bad enough.
I like the idea of offering rewards for participation in the community.
@dag, if you are distribute the equivalent of charter member privileges to star levels, what level gets blogs?
AdrianBlackI think this is an excellent idea, dag.
Discuss...
Enable JavaScript to submit a comment.