They want to get them used to it when they're young so by the time they grow up they'll think this is normal.

Where to next, America?

Fucking outrageous. I know it doesn't address the root of the problem, but as a parent, why subject your kid to this instead of the scanner??

@Xax

That depends on how you, as a parent, feels about subjecting your kid to either a machine that shoots rays at your kid or a physical pat-down. They each have their downfalls (one being physical, the other psychological).

There used to be X-Ray machines for feet at shoe stores that didn't really serve any serious function except to bombard your body with tons of x-ray radiation.

It all depends on how strict the guidelines are for these machines and who's done the proper testing of them.

That being said, this is seriously getting out of hand. What the fuck, man.

Are the people whining about this the same people who whine about "profiling"? It's not like the kid had to strip naked and lift his sac... THAT is a strip search.

Upvoting a video called "Young Boy strip searched by TSA" really doesn't seem right.
Oh well.

http://i.imgur.com/jOkeY.png

TSA: Turning young children into future dissenters since 2010.

Outrageous. Why didn't the crowd speak up and say / chant FUCK the TSA fuck the TSA or something.

Government sanction child molestation is wrong. Boycott Flying

I can't believe this is considered acceptable by anyone. Children shouldn't be subjected to being patted down and strip searched. On top of all that, this happened in a crowded airport, in front of hundreds of strangers, out in the open where any one of those strangers can (and obviously did) see it happen and in this case even recorded it.

To clarify, I don't blame the person that recorded this video, but obviously the people responsible for strip searching a child in the open.

The "security" of this countries airports has gone completely insane. The system needs a massive overhaul.

This is what voting for Democrats and Republicans gets you. Republicans created the Department of Homeland Security and the Democrats increased its security measures to include porno-scanners and gate rape pat down techniques. This was change we could all believe in.

*promote this to the top of the front page, Siftbot. Pedobear demands it!

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Sunday, November 21st, 2010 1:39pm PST - promote requested by blankfist.

I'm sorry, but if this is what it's come to, I DO NOT FEEL SAFER.

Terrorists win again.

The odds of getting cancer from TSA scanners are about the same as terrorists blowing up your plane.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/19/odds-of-cancer-from.html

Sorry to contradict your dishonest narrative, but Bush Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff was the guy behind the porno scanners. He got his corporate buddies a huge contract to create them back in 2005.

"Chertoff’s advocacy for the technology dates to his time in the Bush administration. In 2005, Homeland Security ordered the government’s first batch of the scanners - five from California-based Rapiscan Systems. Rapiscan is one of only two companies that make full-body scanners in accordance with current contract specifications required by the federal government."

Boston Globe Article:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/
wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff#Body_Scanners_and_Conflict_of_Interest

>> ^blankfist:

This is what voting for Democrats and Republicans gets you. Republicans created the Department of Homeland Security and the Democrats increased its security measures to include porno-scanners and gate rape pat down techniques. This was change we could all believe in.

Why's it relevant that he's just a kid? Aren't they required by law to not employ any rational profiling?

Not to support this action, but if people did know that children weren't going to be thorougly searched, that would be where they'd hide anything illegal. amiright?

so yes, yes, yes this is wrong, this is evil, police state, fascism, violation of civil liberties, waste of time and money, etc etc etc. yes, i agree.

but as far the nudey scanners go; i don't like them for all the reason above. but it's not really being seen gray-blurry-naked by a trumped up security guard that bothers me so much. I did CT scans for 8 years, night after night, and the first image taken in a CT scan is called a "scout" or a "topograph" (so we can line up where we will start and end the actual scan), and it's essentially the same image these machines will produce, a low dose backscatter image. There is nothing at all arousing or interesting about these blurs of outlines of naked-under-their-clothes bodies. Sure, the first one you ever see may be fascinating, but not the 300th. I am almost certain that all they're looking at after the first hundred bodies they scan are oddly shaped or shiny metal objects. grey blurry people just aren't that interesting in aggregate.


oh also, they thought CT scanners were only emitting a fraction of the radiation that they actually emit until just a few years ago.. CT scanners are run/maintained/calibrated by people who went to college (for several years) specifically to learn essentially nothing but how to run machines that emit radiation and shoot it at peoples body to take an image. and all the ethics/technology/troubleshooting/caution/physics/risks/common sense that goes along with it. .... they are not run/maintained/calibrated by security guards.

also, how much training are the various people looking at these devices going to be given in how to recognize the hundreds of different things (sometimes extrememly sensitive and embarrassing things) people can have implanted in their bodies. it took me several years of experience before i got very skilled in judging things like how close to the surface of the skin is given artifact, is this inside their bodies or out of the body, wtf is this thing and why the fuck it inside that mans balls/ladies vagina....etc etc. i feel like a lot of people are going to be subjected to humiliating strip searches because the people inspecting these images don't have a medical education and are looking for danger.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

The odds of getting cancer from TSA scanners are about the same as terrorists blowing up your plane.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/19/odds-of-cancer-from.html


From your link:
"He calculated the risk of getting cancer from a single scan at about 1 in 30 million, "which puts it somewhat less than being killed by being struck by lightning in any one year," he told me."

So you are good if you only go through once. But to be more serious, the danger isn't from a single scan but from the repeated exposure. Radiation causes damage to cells. Typically cells are able to repair the damage or will kill itself if it can't. Sometimes the damage is repaired incorrectly or the self-destruct functionality is damaged. It isn't that often, but why take the additional chance if you are a frequent traveler?

Not withstanding medication enhanced radiation sensitivity, medical condition increased raditation sensitivity, individual variance in radiation sensitivity...this should be more on the level of rocket surgery and not indiscriminate wholesale irradiation of a population that is based upon what may be commercial or political considerations as much as vaunted security.
>> ^Ryjkyj:

The odds of getting cancer from TSA scanners are about the same as terrorists blowing up your plane.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/19/odds-of-cancer-from.html

Or you can vote Libertarian and get an awesome .10% of the vote.

Libertarian ideas = Yay! but man, are they poorly marketed. You'd be better off changing the GOP from the inside like Ron Paul. Oh, it's possible. How do think the Donkey Party went from center-left to radical marxist?


>> ^blankfist:

This is what voting for Democrats and Republicans gets you. Republicans created the Department of Homeland Security and the Democrats increased its security measures to include porno-scanners and gate rape pat down techniques. This was change we could all believe in.

These scans are different from scout films for CT scanners. Scout films are basically chest xrays. They use Xrays with keV that penetrate tissues. My understanding of these scanners is that the total body radiation may be less, but the amount of surface (read: skin/eyes/testicles) radiation is increased because of the simple fact that the keV is smaller, which explains the UCSF letter regarding concerns for AIDS/cancer patients and the elderly/young. Medical physicists and radiologists are taught very early on that with regard to ionizing radiation, there is no level of exposure at which the risk of harmful biological effects is zero. Until peer-reviewed evidence is provided to suggest otherwise, these scanners should be considered potentially harmful.

From 2002-2007, there were more than 187,000 times the number of firearm related deaths than terrorism related deaths in the US (CDC). If this is about saving lives, then why aren't we searching everyone that enters a public space for illegal firearms?

How exactly is this protecting us? Neither the body scan nor the pat down are going to find items hidden in body cavities. So what's next, we all get full cavity searches? It's the only logical way to be sure. And if you want absolute 100% safety EVERYONE has got to do it--including the TSA employees, stewardesses, and pilots, technicians... every time they show up for work. I'd love to see how long that lasts.

This insanity needs to stop. Now. I hope on the 24th when the scanner/pat-down becomes mandatory at most airports, people would take a stand and say enough is enough.

FLEE AMERICANS! FLEE FROM THE TYRANNY OF THE TSA!

COME TO CANADA! WE HAVE A SHITlOAD OF SPACE!

..just... you know.. drive here >.>;

This whole business shows just how ridiculously politically correct we've become.

We are literally groping children and old folks to prove we aren't "racist".

There has never been a better excuse for racial profiling.

I think the most jarring fact is that I don't recall hearing about a Muslim woman complaining about having her hijab patted down...

Surgical implantation?
>> ^SDGundamX:

How exactly is this protecting us? Neither the body scan nor the pat down are going to find items hidden in body cavities. So what's next, we all get full cavity searches? It's the only logical way to be sure. And if you want absolute 100% safety EVERYONE has got to do it--including the TSA employees, stewardesses, and pilots, technicians... every time they show up for work. I'd love to see how long that lasts.
This insanity needs to stop. Now. I hope on the 24th when the scanner/pat-down becomes mandatory at most airports, people would take a stand and say enough is enough.

Someone should bomb the scanners.. that'd show them...

Dear TSA, all these videos sure are helping to increase numbers in my Biopolitics Playlist. Thanks!

Change the title you jerks.

Seriously, you aren't helping f'ed up situation with lies, when the truth is just as bad.

The real story was a boy that didn't opt-out. He went through metal detector and was selected for extra search. The kid didn't like being touched and the father tried holding the boys arms out.

The father TOOK OFF THE SHIRT just for being fed up with the process.
This was NOT A STRIP SEARCH. TSA didn't ask boy to remove anything.

The problem is that TSA is searching little children, which is insane.

The only goal is to sell a billion dollars of body scanners because Chertoff owns a firm or has interest in his clients firm that sells these things, to make money. They are only interested in finding drugs and money. That is it. They have caught ZERO bad people with all the screenings. They have found almost nothing.


CHANGE THE TITLE OF THIS VIDEO!
http://i.imgur.com/zFrpi.jpg

You can't compare backscatter to equivalent dosage. This isn't high energy X-rays that pass through the body. This isn't like high atmospheric solar radiation that passes through the body.

Backscatter X-rays work by being such low energy, they only penetrate a few mm into the skin then ionize and scatter X-rays to make the image. There is ZERO studies on what this does to children, corneas, or testicles.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Sorry to contradict your dishonest narrative, but Bush Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff was the guy behind the porno scanners. He got his corporate buddies a huge contract to create them back in 2005.
"Chertoff’s advocacy for the technology dates to his time in the Bush administration. In 2005, Homeland Security ordered the government’s first batch of the scanners - five from California-based Rapiscan Systems. Rapiscan is one of only two companies that make full-body scanners in accordance with current contract specifications required by the federal government."
Boston Globe Article:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w
ashington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/
wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff#Body_Scanner
s_and_Conflict_of_Interest



Ordered in 2005 and installed in...? Look, I understand you think Obama is the inerrant leader and savior of mankind, but you have to admit that the TSA is under the purview of the Obama Administration, so why does it matter if the order for these porno-scanners was placed in 2005 or 1905? Irrelevant. They're there now, and King Obama is doing nothing to rid us of the gate rape pat downs and porno-scanners.

So, whose narrative is dishonest again?

Meh. Just hurry up and figure out that the Israeli's have the right idea on airport security. And you won't put up with anymore of this nonsense.

I don't object to the concept of searches as long as they are JUSTIFIED. The problem with the TSA is that they are using this method in the stupidest, most ineffective way possible. Statistically speaking, how likely is it that a 3 to 5 year old caucasian male is going to be an actual security threat? 0.0% - that's what. The only threat the boy poses is getting cranky in flight. So exactly why did the TSA need to waste the father's time, their own time, and everyone else's time with this idiotic exercise in security theatre?

Statistically speaking, the TSA should focus their attention on male foreign-born Muslims between the ages of 17 and 40. Pretty much everyone else you can wave right on through without even a first look (let alone a second). Does someone look or act suspicious? Rather than pat-downs and scans, the TSA can just get the passenger's name (it's right there on the ticket) and run it through HS computer. Takes all of two seconds. Does the person have ANY history which might suggest they are a security threat? No? Then wave them through.

The TSA is doing nothing but threatening civilians with sexual harassment in order to scare them into taking the scan. Pure and simple.

This is what it looks like when you capitulate to terrorists.

"Point on the doll where the bad TSA person touched you."

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Statistically speaking, the TSA should focus their attention on male foreign-born Muslims between the ages of 17 and 40.

I can't be arsed running through this again so I'll just politely ask you to cite your statistical evidence.

TSA = terrorist subservient agency

P.S. grats to chicchorea for highlighting how easy it is to game VideoSift with a blatantly false title.

I can't be arsed running through this again so I'll just politely ask you to cite your statistical evidence.

How many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by caucasian males aged 3-5?
Answer: Zero

And how many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40?

1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed.
2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.
2003 1
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.
2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.
2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.
2007
Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices.
2008
May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya.
June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.
June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province.
July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years.
Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.
Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.
Nov. 26, India: in a series of attacks on several of Mumbai's landmarks and commercial hubs that are popular with Americans and other foreign tourists, including at least two five-star hotels, a hospital, a train station, and a cinema. About 300 people are wounded and nearly 190 people die, including at least 5 Americans.
2009
Feb. 9, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills four American soldiers and their Iraqi translator near a police checkpoint.
April 10, Iraq: a suicide attack kills five American soldiers and two Iraqi policemen.
Dec. 25: A Nigerian man on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit attempted to ignite an explosive device hidden in his underwear. The explosive device that failed to detonate was a mixture of powder and liquid that did not alert security personnel in the airport. The alleged bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told officials later that he was directed by the terrorist group Al Qaeda. The suspect was already on the government's watch list when he attempted the bombing; his father, a respected Nigerian banker, had told the U.S. government that he was worried about his son's increased extremism.
Dec. 30, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills eight Americans civilians, seven of them CIA agents, at a base in Afghanistan. It's the deadliest attack on the agency since 9/11. The attacker is reportedly a double agent from Jordan who was acting on behalf of al-Qaeda.
2010
May 2, New York City: After discovering a bomb in a smoking vehicle parked in Times Square, authorities arrest Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani who recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen, and charge him with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and several other federal charges. American officials later announce that the Pakistani Taliban likely played a role in the bomb plot, including training Shahzad.

The underwear bomber. The shoe bomber. The ink-cartridge bomber. 9/11. Foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40. Profiling isn't prejudice or racism. It's just statistics.

Didn't title it...843,000 and counting on YT. YT title forwarded. Observation, however, may be instructive nonetheless...though probably not revelationary to Siftdom.
>> ^Ralgha:

TSA = terrorist subservient agency
P.S. grats to chicchorea for highlighting how easy it is to game VideoSift with a blatantly false title.

http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/11/response-to-young-boy-strip-searched-by.html

Standard government CYA job on that blog link. "Everything we did was perfectly OK..." Uh - no - you were groping a 6 year old boy in public you jack-booted dummies. At what point did these government idiots completely lose their humanity? What horrific geas is it that has caused this TSA drone to lose that little voice in his head that tells you "What you are doing is wrong"? Clearly the problem is here is rather akin to another little historic problem where people justified evil actions with the, "We were just following orders" excuse.

Ever notice how the only thing in human history that EVER creates that kind of mindset is government policy? Seriously - I sure hope this TSA thing is one of those camel breaking straws that cuts the TSA down to size. Nice idea - but as with all government solutions - terrible implementation.

HEAR, HEAR.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Standard government CYA job on that blog link. "Everything we did was perfectly OK..." Uh - no - you were groping a 6 year old boy in public you jack-booted dummies. At what point did these government idiots completely lose their humanity? What horrific geas is it that has caused this TSA drone to lose that little voice in his head that tells you "What you are doing is wrong"? Clearly the problem is here is rather akin to another little historic problem where people justified evil actions with the, "We were just following orders" excuse.
Ever notice how the only thing in human history that EVER creates that kind of mindset is government policy? Seriously - I sure hope this TSA thing is one of those camel breaking straws that cuts the TSA down to size. Nice idea - but as with all government solutions - terrible implementation.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Sorry to contradict your dishonest narrative, but Bush Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff was the guy behind the porno scanners. He got his corporate buddies a huge contract to create them back in 2005.
"Chertoff’s advocacy for the technology dates to his time in the Bush administration. In 2005, Homeland Security ordered the government’s first batch of the scanners - five from California-based Rapiscan Systems. Rapiscan is one of only two companies that make full-body scanners in accordance with current contract specifications required by the federal government."
Boston Globe Article:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w
ashington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/
wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff#Body_Scanner
s_and_Conflict_of_Interest


Also I can post links, too.

Body Scanner Manufacturer Accompanies Obama on Trip to India:
http://publicintelligence.net/body-scanner-manufacturer-accompanies-obama-on-trip-to-india/

^I think it's better when you do. Leave the insults and bullshit behind, and deal in facts.

These machines were not the brainchild of Obama, and for you to imply they were is dishonest. If you want to talk about corruption, and Obama getting cozy with scanner CEO's, I'm down with that. My big problem with you is that you are either unwilling or unable to see these same corrupting market forces in your own ideology. Over the last few decades of deregulation and increased market influence over our politics, things have gotten drastically worse. Markets have proven that they are neither efficient or just, and they have zero to do with liberty.

Umm... Religious doctrine? Cults? Market research? Corporate policy? Economic policy by banks, hedge funds, Wall St.? Big Pharma? Big Agro? Big Oil? People who blame government for everything don't understand government. Government fails because of people, not because of intention. If you are down on government save us all the time and just denounce humanity and go live in a cave somewhere. Build your own running water system, police, and fire dept. while you're at it.

Also, if you don't like it, don't fly. Maybe instead of bitching about the TSA you could suggest an alternative? Do something constructive? I'm not going to sit here and scream "GROPING" and "PORNO" for these measures, even though I don't like them either. Call a spade a spade. The kid will be just fine. He'll get over it. Check your rhetoric. It's a brave new world. Educate yourself about it before you turn into the very type of radical that gets everyone into trouble.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Ever notice how the only thing in human history that EVER creates that kind of mindset is government policy?

I like that they have a blog like this. It gives the "big mindless entity" a more personal face and at least the semblance of transparency.

They can give their side of the story on concrete cases too in a more informal, straight to the point manner too, instead of press conferences and shit like that.
>> ^Stingray:

http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/11/response-to-young-boy-strip-searched-by.ht
ml

Citation provided. Well done. Always be weary of statistics though http://i.imgur.com/XE9Iu.png
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

I can't be arsed running through this again so I'll just politely ask you to cite your statistical evidence.
How many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by caucasian males aged 3-5?
Answer: Zero
And how many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40?
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed.
2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.
2003 1
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.
2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.
2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.
2007
Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices.
2008
May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya.
June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.
June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province.
July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years.
Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.
Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.
Nov. 26, India: in a series of attacks on several of Mumbai's landmarks and commercial hubs that are popular with Americans and other foreign tourists, including at least two five-star hotels, a hospital, a train station, and a cinema. About 300 people are wounded and nearly 190 people die, including at least 5 Americans.
2009
Feb. 9, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills four American soldiers and their Iraqi translator near a police checkpoint.
April 10, Iraq: a suicide attack kills five American soldiers and two Iraqi policemen.
Dec. 25: A Nigerian man on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit attempted to ignite an explosive device hidden in his underwear. The explosive device that failed to detonate was a mixture of powder and liquid that did not alert security personnel in the airport. The alleged bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told officials later that he was directed by the terrorist group Al Qaeda. The suspect was already on the government's watch list when he attempted the bombing; his father, a respected Nigerian banker, had told the U.S. government that he was worried about his son's increased extremism.
Dec. 30, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills eight Americans civilians, seven of them CIA agents, at a base in Afghanistan. It's the deadliest attack on the agency since 9/11. The attacker is reportedly a double agent from Jordan who was acting on behalf of al-Qaeda.
2010
May 2, New York City: After discovering a bomb in a smoking vehicle parked in Times Square, authorities arrest Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani who recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen, and charge him with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and several other federal charges. American officials later announce that the Pakistani Taliban likely played a role in the bomb plot, including training Shahzad.
The underwear bomber. The shoe bomber. The ink-cartridge bomber. 9/11. Foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40. Profiling isn't prejudice or racism. It's just statistics.

The logic goes like this:

Allan stole a loaf of bread.
Allan is a thief.
Allan is black.
All blacks are thieves.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:blah blah blah I'm a racist.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
How many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by caucasian males aged 3-5?
Answer: Zero

Don't forget the all important:

How many terrorists has the TSA caught?
Answer: Zero <- any profiled subset of which is still Zero
Getting a 4 year old Caucasian boy to carry something through a checkpoint is easy, just slip something into his pocket, so IF TSA SCREENING WORKED, this would make sense. The problem, of course, is that the TSA procedures do not work, and using them to only inconvenience a demographic that does not happen to include you, will not make them any more effective.

>> ^KnivesOut:

The logic goes like this:
Allan stole a loaf of bread.
Allan is a thief.
Allan is black.
All blacks are thieves.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:blah blah blah I'm a racist.


Haha. He did it for the lulz.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

^I think it's better when you do. Leave the insults and bullshit behind, and deal in facts.
These machines were not the brainchild of Obama, and for you to imply they were is dishonest. If you want to talk about corruption, and Obama getting cozy with scanner CEO's, I'm down with that. My big problem with you is that you are either unwilling or unable to see these same corrupting market forces in your own ideology. Over the last few decades of deregulation and increased market influence over our politics, things have gotten drastically worse. Markets have proven that they are neither efficient or just, and they have zero to do with liberty.


I have been dealing in facts. In no way did I mean to imply these scanners were his brainchild. I'm not even sure that's relevant to anything. My point is simple: currently, the TSA is under the Obama Administration, and these pat down procedures and recent additions of more porno-scanners has happened under his rule.

Therefore. He. is. Responsible.

Pointing out anything Bush has done is disingenuous because Obama ran on a platform of "change", so shouldn't he be "changing" the Bush policies instead of worsening them? Or are you okay with his lies as long as people like me aren't here to rub your nose in it?

Amazing that people like this can remember to breathe.. Just how far can we go into denying evident and verifiable facts so that we don't "offend" someone?

Half of AIDS infected Americans are Blacks, yet they are roughly 15% of the population.
White Europeans are more likely to be serial killers than any other ethnic group.
Muslims, mostly Arabs, are responsible for almost all transnational terrorist attacks in the past 20 years.

My guess is that most people are only "offended" by two of the last statements. Why must we completely ignore any racial data we have?

It's akin to directing half of breast cancer awareness efforts to men just because they're half the population. Yes, men CAN get breast cancer, but would it really be the most efficient prevention effort?
>> ^KnivesOut:

The logic goes like this:
Allan stole a loaf of bread.
Allan is a thief.
Allan is black.
All blacks are thieves.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:blah blah blah I'm a racist.

I agree with BF in this case. The buck has to stop somewhere.

The end does not justify the means.

If we start forming special lines at airports for anyone that might be Muslim or Arab, who else should we be singling out for that treatment? What about Irishmen?

A very, very small % of the Arabs or Muslims in the world have actually blown up planes. There's 1.5 BILLION Muslims on the planet. How many have blown up planes? 20? Statistically speaking... how close is that to 0%?

>> ^Pprt:

Amazing that people like this can remember to breathe.. Just how far can we go into denying evident and verifiable facts so that we don't "offend" someone?
Half of AIDS infected Americans are Blacks, yet they are roughly 15% of the population.
White Europeans are more likely to be serial killers than any other ethnic group.
Muslims, mostly Arabs, are responsible for almost all transnational terrorist attacks in the past 20 years.
My guess is that most people are only "offended" by two of the last statements. Why must we completely ignore any racial data we have?
It's akin to directing half of breast cancer awareness efforts to men just because they're half the population. Yes, men CAN get breast cancer, but would it really be the most efficient prevention effort?
>> ^KnivesOut:
The logic goes like this:
Allan stole a loaf of bread.
Allan is a thief.
Allan is black.
All blacks are thieves.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:blah blah blah I'm a racist.

I agree the radiation aspect is a non issue. I have been repairing X-ray equipment for 1/2 my professional life.

The real issue is a 4th amendment issue in its most Vulger sense.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

The odds of getting cancer from TSA scanners are about the same as terrorists blowing up your plane.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/19/odds-of-cancer-from.html

Beyond reasoning with...
>> ^KnivesOut:

The end does not justify the means.
If we start forming special lines at airports for anyone that might be Muslim or Arab, who else should we be singling out for that treatment? What about Irishmen?
A very, very small % of the Arabs or Muslims in the world have actually blown up planes. There's 1.5 BILLION Muslims on the planet. How many have blown up planes? 20? Statistically speaking... how close is that to 0%?
>> ^Pprt:
Amazing that people like this can remember to breathe.. Just how far can we go into denying evident and verifiable facts so that we don't "offend" someone?
Half of AIDS infected Americans are Blacks, yet they are roughly 15% of the population.
White Europeans are more likely to be serial killers than any other ethnic group.
Muslims, mostly Arabs, are responsible for almost all transnational terrorist attacks in the past 20 years.
My guess is that most people are only "offended" by two of the last statements. Why must we completely ignore any racial data we have?
It's akin to directing half of breast cancer awareness efforts to men just because they're half the population. Yes, men CAN get breast cancer, but would it really be the most efficient prevention effort?
>> ^KnivesOut:
The logic goes like this:
Allan stole a loaf of bread.
Allan is a thief.
Allan is black.
All blacks are thieves.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:blah blah blah I'm a racist.

you're right. the kvp of a scout film is certainly higher than these images. these images will not penetrate as deeply into the body, but scout films aren't (usually) directed at the entire body. also, at a smaller kvp you get a greater amount of backscatter because the dose isn't strong enough to penetrate the body. backscatter is the reason radiology techs stand behind lead walls, wear lead aprons, and wear dosimeters. and the reason radiology techs who have had cancer are generally taken off the floor and become managers.

even still, i'm not too terribly worried about the radiation issue for most of the general population. you will be exposed to far more radiation during your flight.

but on top of this being a 4th amendment issue, i don't think needlessly exposing the entire flying population of the US to some extra radiation is an effective way to fight terrorism.


>> ^nock:

These scans are different from scout films for CT scanners. Scout films are basically chest xrays. They use Xrays with keV that penetrate tissues. My understanding of these scanners is that the total body radiation may be less, but the amount of surface (read: skin/eyes/testicles) radiation is increased because of the simple fact that the keV is smaller, which explains the UCSF letter regarding concerns for AIDS/cancer patients and the elderly/young. Medical physicists and radiologists are taught very early on that with regard to ionizing radiation, there is no level of exposure at which the risk of harmful biological effects is zero. Until peer-reviewed evidence is provided to suggest otherwise, these scanners should be considered potentially harmful.

So we're saying the same thing...? That these are potentially harmful?

>> ^peggedbea:

you're right. the kvp of a scout film is certainly higher than these images. these images will not penetrate as deeply into the body, but scout films aren't (usually) directed at the entire body. also, at a smaller kvp you get a greater amount of backscatter because the dose isn't strong enough to penetrate the body. backscatter is the reason radiology techs stand behind lead walls, wear lead aprons, and wear dosimeters. and the reason radiology techs who have had cancer are generally taken off the floor and become managers.

>> ^nock:
These scans are different from scout films for CT scanners. Scout films are basically chest xrays. They use Xrays with keV that penetrate tissues. My understanding of these scanners is that the total body radiation may be less, but the amount of surface (read: skin/eyes/testicles) radiation is increased because of the simple fact that the keV is smaller, which explains the UCSF letter regarding concerns for AIDS/cancer patients and the elderly/young. Medical physicists and radiologists are taught very early on that with regard to ionizing radiation, there is no level of exposure at which the risk of harmful biological effects is zero. Until peer-reviewed evidence is provided to suggest otherwise, these scanners should be considered potentially harmful.

sure, except backscatter is the reasons radiology techs take the precautions they do with their own bodies and wear lead and stand behind walls. it's not high energy, but it isn't entirely benign either. a 60 year old flying once or twice a year, i would not worry about at all.

but like you said, the cornea's of a child who flies a decent amount and grows up to be a business traveler, i'm more concerned.

you still get exposed to more radiation during your flight.

but since this is a TERRIBLE and EXPENSIVE way to fight terrorism, i hate it. and additional exposure to radiation is one of the reasons.

>> ^joedirt:

You can't compare backscatter to equivalent dosage. This isn't high energy X-rays that pass through the body. This isn't like high atmospheric solar radiation that passes through the body.
Backscatter X-rays work by being such low energy, they only penetrate a few mm into the skin then ionize and scatter X-rays to make the image. There is ZERO studies on what this does to children, corneas, or testicles.

Saddly we aren't able to downvote these to oblivion when they are wrong, but joedirt hit the nail on the head. The kid was frustrated with the procedures and took off his shirt without being asked to. That is one thing they won't do.

That said... I am excited to see that lately the number of tsa stories has really stepped it up a notch and I hope it explodes in their face (Why do I get the notion the fbi is gonna knock on my door for saying explode?) with the total disolvment of the tsa in its current form.

I was excited to hear the airport close to me in FL has kicked the tsa out and gone private, I still don't plan to fly anytime soon.

Guys, guys, guys. You're missing the point.

The radiation IS a non-issue. Just like terrorists blowing up your plane is a non-issue. Yes, the idea of a bomb on your plane is scary, but the odds of that happening to you are about the same as you getting cancer from a TSA screening. Which is to say: effectively zero.

PS: Low energy or not, the rays that backscatter machines use are still x-rays. The energy is quantifiable, low or not. So to say that there are no studies on varying amounts of exposure to x-rays is, well...

Religious doctrine? Cults? Market research? Corporate policy? Economic policy by banks, hedge funds, Wall St.? Big Pharma? Big Agro? Big Oil?

These are all excellent points, and in my zeal I have to admit that it was rather hyperbolic to say government is the “only” institution that creates the “I was following orders” mentality. In that I stand corrected. However, I stand by the substance of the idea that government is the primary violator, and that history’s most egregious examples are government created.

If you are down on government save us all the time and just denounce humanity and go live in a cave somewhere.

I’m down on big central governments. Limited, small government at the municipal, county, and state level which are held to a high standard of culpability and performance by voters is fine. Big federal government that implements one-size policies on nations for social engineering are lousy. Federal government is for national defense and some intra/inter state trade regulations. That’s it. The constitution was designed to keep federal powers limited. It is no surprise that one of our man-child president’s great irritations with the country he runs is that the constitution doesn’t allow him to do more “TO” the public.

Build your own running water system, police, and fire dept. while you're at it.

Feds don’t do those things. Those are city, state, and county functions.

Maybe instead of bitching about the TSA you could suggest an alternative?

I have. Profile the likely offenders and stop hassling people who are low statistical risks. It will decrease the workload, reduce costs, and speed up the process a hundred-fold.

I'm not going to sit here and scream… even though I don't like them either. … The kid will be just fine. He'll get over it. … It's a brave new world.

Brave New World. Oh, what fools these mortals be. I’d suggest brushing up on your Huxley and Shakespeare. I doubt Huxley would be applauding your, “bend over and take it” sentiment. You might think it is admirable. History suggests that such a docile attitude towards central government is profoundly unwise. Government is meant to be questioned, held to account, challenged, and regarded with suspicion.

The problem, of course, is that the TSA procedures do not work, and using them to only inconvenience a demographic that does not happen to include you, will not make them any more effective.

Well – very true – this is a good point. What the TSA is doing is security theatre. It is not effective at preventing terrorist acts from succeeding. So why are we doing this? If the object is increased SECURITY then the procedure needs to change radically. But if we aren’t willing to do the things that will actually provide security then we’d be better off just abandoning the whole effort as a fruitless exercise.

Allan stole a loaf of bread. Allan is a thief. Allan is black. All blacks are thieves.

Except that’s not what I said or even anything remotely close to it. I’m saying…

“Over 95% of all air travel terrorism has been committed by foreign-born Muslim males between 17-40. The TSA should focus its efforts on this population to increase efficiency.” That isn’t saying “all Muslims are terrorists”. It is only saying, “This population sector is the highest risk”. Correlation does not equal causation but it does tell you where to weight your cases and analysis. Right now, even a basic statistical model would heavily weight the probability of a terrorist act towards foreign-born Muslim males.

Railing against the concept of government is basically railing against civilization.

Government is a blank canvas capable of both good and bad, depending on who is holding the brush. Big business has been holding the brush for 3+ decades now. They've painted our canvas with Reaganism, Thatcherism, trickle down economics, globalization, world banks, uneven trade with countries that exploit and pollute, deregulation, easing of campaign finance laws, media consolidation, privatization of much of the economic sector, etc.

Big business dominates our politics and policy, and even after scoring a huge victory last month, they still crave more handouts, tax giveaways and the end of social services that don't directly benefit them. Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians all operate on corporate cash. Step out of line and face the wrath of business might, as Obama experienced when he tried to create a health care system.

We can continue to attempt to treat these numerous symptoms as they pop up, but it's not going to stop until we wise up. If we the people were in charge, we'd have never allowed these machines in the first place.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Railing against the concept of government is basically railing against civilization.
Government is a blank canvas capable of both good and bad, depending on who is holding the brush.


Says you. There's no proof of this. You know, you always ask me to give you a real world historic example of a free market society, and so I'll charge you with a similar request. Show me one government in the history of mankind that has been incorruptible and has worked as flawlessly as the utopia you seem to spin here for us.

DERP DERPDITY DERP. I repair TV broadcast antennas, therefore radio waves are safe.

You do realize X-ray equipment can be dangerous? You do realize that these backscatter X-rays are nothing like what you are used to. They are low energy and only pass a few mm into the skin. I would say the backscatter isn't generally harmful to adults, but no one has studied effects on testicles, corneas or children, and all credible experts agree this will lead to increased skin cancer especially on the top of the head.

What if you fly daily? What if you are a cancer patient?

Why x-ray anyone when it can't detect anything in your rectum? What is the point? There is not safety in it.
You realize backscatter cannot detect someone wearing a diaper full of powder. The ONLY reason for any of this is the DHS director is making money for every new machine installed. PERIOD. The groping is only to make sure everyone "willingly" goes through the new machines, so as to justify buying more. PERIOD.
>> ^bobknight33:

I agree the radiation aspect is a non issue. I have been repairing X-ray equipment for 1/2 my professional life. >

*doublepromote

Post cannot be double-promoted by chicchorea because chicchorea is the original submitter.

*promote

Self promoting this video back to the front page; last published Sunday, November 21st, 2010 6:39pm PST - promote requested by original submitter chicchorea.

psh. what is your definition of civilization exactly?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilization

Because linking bureaucracy with the development of culture and art and technology makes you sound like a nutter.

Like the liberal version of pennypacker or QM.. @_@

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Railing against the concept of government is basically railing against civilization.

in what "civilization" or "culture" or "government" is it ok for "the government" to subject every single normal citizen to fondling their genitals just because some idiot in Washington thought it is a good idea and to sell some new machines to see everyone naked?

blankfist: There is no perfect system; no utopia; but I could certainly point to democracy in countries like the US, Canada, England and France as being far superior to the kingdoms and fiefdoms of centuries past. You have yet to provide any comparable examples for your own beliefs. On the contrary, I have plenty of examples of 'market' love for violence, unemployment, exploitation and corruption. The above story is one of them.

Genji: Name me one successful, modern civilization without a government. Society, government, economies, art and culture are all very much intertwined. They are absolutely linked. I'm not sure what point you were going for with that comment. And what's with the insults? Nutter? QM? Why the cheap rhetoric?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society

joedirt: there is a difference between arguing against a particular wrong carried out by a government and arguing against the concept of government itself. Sorry to disappoint, but I have no desire to fondle your genitals now or ever.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Or you can vote Libertarian and get an awesome .10% of the vote.
Libertarian ideas = Yay! but man, are they poorly marketed. You'd be better off changing the GOP from the inside like Ron Paul. Oh, it's possible. How do think the Donkey Party went from center-left to radical marxist?
>> ^blankfist:
This is what voting for Democrats and Republicans gets you. Republicans created the Department of Homeland Security and the Democrats increased its security measures to include porno-scanners and gate rape pat down techniques. This was change we could all believe in.



Yes, but is it the fault of Libertarians for selling well made American products but not advertising them right? Or is it American's faults for buying cheap-made Chinesse prodcuts with lead because they look pretty?

I say the fault lies nothing with the party and everything to do with the people. Besides, what would better advertisement do? People want the handouts that Repubs give and Democrats give---how can Libertarians fight that?

American market Libertarians get hand outs as well. Their think tanks are funded by the same people who fund right wing think tanks.

I'm totally unsure as to what technique these images are shot at, BUT in scout films (which are low dose backscatter images for reconnaissance purposes) you can see nonmetallic objects in peoples rectums, and diapers, and shit inside of diapers, and even whether or not someone is wearing a tampon. I'd have to know what Kvp is used to make a better guess as to whether or not these scanners would pick up radiolucent materials lodged up into a rectum, but I'm fairly certain they will be high energy enough to see a diaper (since it's on the outside of the body).

but, i'm not sure how they're going to handle the diaper issue. lots of adults wear diapers and there's no way to tell on film if the diaper is soiled or if it's loaded with explosives. how embarrassing for everyone involved.


>> ^joedirt:


Why x-ray anyone when it can't detect anything in your rectum? What is the point? There is not safety in it.
You realize backscatter cannot detect someone wearing a diaper full of powder. The ONLY reason for any of this is the DHS director is making money for every new machine installed. PERIOD. The groping is only to make sure everyone "willingly" goes through the new machines, so as to justify buying more. PERIOD.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

Guys, guys, guys. You're missing the point.
The radiation IS a non-issue. Just like terrorists blowing up your plane is a non-issue. Yes, the idea of a bomb on your plane is scary, but the odds of that happening to you are about the same as you getting cancer from a TSA screening. Which is to say: effectively zero.
PS: Low energy or not, the rays that backscatter machines use are still x-rays. The energy is quantifiable, low or not. So to say that there are no studies on varying amounts of exposure to x-rays is, well...


The problem isn't that TSA screenings all alone are going to cause cancer, but adding this to the cumulative risk factors that people experience throughout their lives simply because some company invented the technology and wanted to sell it is fucked up. A frequent flier who already has multiple risk factors doesn't really need the added exposure. And shouldn't have to be subjected to a thorough groping for not wanting to accumulate additional free radicals twice a week

(i picked twice a week because my mom is a business traveler and she averages about 2 flights a week, 50 weeks a year ...plus with her two weeks off she usually goes on a exotic vacations and flies in and out of various airports world wide, in a given year my mom probably goes through airport security 100-110 times a year, now she's already getting radiation on her flight, what if she had cancer that was in remission or had multiple risk factors of a different nature? since shes in her 60's and has no more risk factor than the average person, I'm not worried about it. But what if she worked the job she does and was in her early 20's? had a strong family history of breast cancer? had already had a few bits of melanoma removed? and like most of the population, was poorly informed about the effects of radiation and unable to make an educated decision about whether or not she wanted to opt out and face the groping? without knowing the math, i'd say her chance of developing cancer in her lifetime had indeed risen and probably exponentially)

of course there are studies about the effects of radiation, but there are not studies about the effects of exposing millions of frequent fliers of various cohorts to a light grazing of xrays all over their bodies a few times a week throughout their careers, and what their chances of cancer look like at the end of their working lives.


i'd say the chances that this is dangerous to someone are far greater than the chance that a terrorist will hijack your flight.

also, it's times like this i wish i knew statistics and wasn't horrible at math.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
American market Libertarians get hand outs as well. Their think tanks are funded by the same people who fund right wing think tanks.


Sadly, tis true. But unlike GOP, we don't believe in contradiction like taxcuts for the wealthy (I.e. kickbacks.) or bailouts (I.e. kickbacks.) There is no "women's" rights issues, or gay rights issues, or all that other crap in a libertarian (I.e. ,assive pot crackdowns!) There are severe limits to a lib, but not like the GOP.

>> ^bobknight33:
Outrageous. Why didn't the crowd speak up and say / chant FUCK the TSA fuck the TSA or something.
Government sanction child molestation is wrong. Boycott Flying


I know right! How dare they! And Dr. Child Molestor? Who cares if you are checking for cancer! Medical sponsored child molesation is wrong! And parents who give their children baths?! Parental child molestation should not be sanctioned! Hyperbolers unite!!!

I remember where this baby was dead and filled with coke on a plane... But who cares!

We should blame the govnt. for failing, and we should blame them for trying! Down with democracy!

If scientific studies tell me the radiation isn't harmful, well that's fine, but until they can also tell me why autism is on the rise, what causes cancer, why there's an epidemic of asthma, and so on, I think it's fair for me to also make my own responsible decisions even if it contradicts their science.

*length=39

The duration of this video has been updated from unknown to 39 secs - length declared by radx.