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When will US citizens stand up and fight for their rights? Because there are people actively standing up to take your rights away from you. Open your eyes people - Get angry already!

I can't fathom why this issue alone doesn't destroy the Republican party.
Even those who disagree with the practice of abortion on moral or ethical grounds should support other people's rights to decide their morality and ethics for themselves, and to do something that's undeniably legal. The methodology they use to deny people family planning services, and as a byproduct deny women's health services to millions, is antithetical to their stated main goal, which is freedom from government intervention in legal business, especially 'regulations' designed solely to hinder or destroy the legal practices they 'regulate'. Somehow that mandate is completely forgotten when they use those tactics for their own goals and/or to regulate legal things they dislike, then picked back up the instant the subject changes.

Who fights for the unborn? Not the left.

I do agree that these new hindrances are fairly messed up but that is what is available to lawmakers.

There should be a few instances that abortion is allowed and these should be done at the hospital at same day surgery clinics where minor procedures are preformed.

AS fat as the 13 yr old she is not being punished. Where are the cops arresting the rapist? PPH are obligated to report that.
The baby’s heart will start beating during the fifth week. The heart is too small to generate enough sound waves to be audible, even when amplified by the use of medical equipment in your doctor's office. However by the 6th week the beats can be measured.


Its odd if I kill a pregnant woman I get charged with 2 counts of murder. If the woman kills the fetus no problem with that.

Because murder is murder.

Being a Godless soul that you are I don't expect you to understand.

I do agree these are messed up laws that put roadblocks into a woman's choice to murder their child. But law makers use what is available to them.

He just gets better and better.
I don't like the Daily Motion Player.

What a woman does with her body is her choice.
A fetus is NOT a living entity. It cannot live outside the mother's body on it's own. It is a biological process that is part of the mother's body. It's up to her if she wants to terminate the process, not yours or theirs, or anyone Else's decision!

It is not murder, there is NO independent living being. I don't know how anyone's EGO gets so big and over inflated that they feel they get to make the decision for some one else. Personal opinion or personal religion doesn't give you authority.

If you don't want to terminate your own pregnancy, then don't. Bravo to you. And by the way. Men can't get pregnant. A man's opinion to not terminate is null and void. This is the choice of the woman herself, and it's our place as men to support what ever they decide!

I will not counter argue this. I will not concede. Move along...

Bob, you're off your rocker if you think that it's a good thing to make doctors give unsound and incorrect advice to patients. Just take a minute to consider what sort of crackpot dystopia you're promoting with that line of thinking. Government regulations that force a doctor to lie to patients is ok if you need to get your own way. Is it worth poisoning the water with that kind of Orwellian shit just because you can't win the debate about abortion? What comes after legally forcing doctors to lie to patients, if that becomes the norm?

What am i saying, apparently it IS the norm..!?

Civilisation is descending into madness right in front of our eyes, whilst teams of people work day and night on press releases to make it seem perfectly normal. Some of you god-botherers can be real dangerous lunatics when you want to be.

dupe

It is only murder if the state considers the killing to be unlawful. Someone who kills and is prosecuted (and found guilty) for murder is someone who has committed murder. If a woman kills her unborn child, it is only murder if the state has decided that killing unborn children is murder. If abortion is legal, it is not murder to kill the unborn child.

To say that the state is putting roadblocks in place to prevent women from committing murder is a rather absurd misunderstanding of what the existing US laws actually are.

A foetus is a living entity. You'll be going down a fairly preposterous set of arguments that go against all of our understanding of life if you try to maintain that it isn't a living entity. It is in many ways a parasite that has latched onto the mother's body and is trying to suck nutrients from it long enough to be able to be born. The foetus releases hormones to fight against the mother's immune system to prevent the mother's body from rejecting this invasion by such a vastly different genetic entity. At least, that's one way to look at it. There are many others that are correct. None of those suggest that the foetus isn't a living entity.

It is somewhat true that the foetus is part of the mother's body. Her body certainly envelopes the foetus' and the foetus couldn't live without it.

To say that it's her choice whether to terminate is clearly not true. The state has permitted women to make that decision in some places around the world, in some periods of time. It certainly isn't an inalienable right as you seem to be suggesting. It's a fight that women have had and continue to have in order to be able to express control over the bodies and lives. A simple expression of what you think should be the law isn't an argument for why the law should be that way.

I don't represent the entire left, but as a member of the left I think you're misrepresenting our (at least my) concerns. It's not that we don't care about the unborn, it is that this is a complex situation that involves more than one person in an unusual circumstance.

On the one hand, the mother (and others involved) who for whatever reason don't want to bring a child into the world and look after it (yes I know about adoption and yes, it is a very good solution for some women/situations). On the other hand, the foetus. It may be little more than a collection of cells. It might have a heartbeat. It might be thinking/dreaming/hearing/feeling. You could even consider it to be a person at certain stages of development (or even from the very first cell division, if you want). It could even be considered killing a person to kill the foetus. I can accept all of that and yet I can accept the need for abortion. Just like we accept killing and/or not helping (so that they die) poor people, old people, disabled people, sick people, refugees, soldiers from other countries, people on deathrow, animals, etc. We accept justified killing in many circumstances. Making abortion legal simple means that in this circumstance, we accept that the killing is justified.

If you kill a pregnant woman, you may not be charged with murder. You will only be charged if the state does not consider the killing to be justified. I think that is where you're struggling with this issue. In the US, on a basic level, the state and populace consider the killing of an unborn child to be justified killing. You need to make an argument for why it isn't. (I don't really need to make an argument for why it is justified because I'm with the status quo on this one.)

it's not a question of whether or not it's a living being. It's a question of personhood, which is a philosophical argument, not a biological one. Children don't have the same rights as adults, it's not that they aren't living beings, it's simply philosophical argument, children don't have the same abilities as adults, so an age was set, and viola.

sperm are living entities too, so are bacteria, don't see men getting jailed for masturbation, or people getting jailed for using anti-bacterial soap.

The right wing pro-life argument rings hollow when they show how little they care for human life after it leaves the womb.

And pro-tip, you're not going to get a rational discussion from bob. he's full of truthiness

And yet almost no Republican has a problem with the Death Penalty. Almost no Republican has a problem with War, in fact they love it and want more of it. Almost no Republican has a problem with Stand Your Ground and execute a guy for trying to steal your TV.

What about Jesus teaching that "blessed are the peace maker" he didn't say that there be blessings on the warmongers. Yet the party is the party of warmongers, and looking for any excuse to enter a battle and murder and kill people who haven't done anything to anyone here in the US... just on the threat they may pose. Yes, the war against bin Laden was just, but Bush and the party abandoned that soon after for a set of lies about Iraq, which had done nothing to us. How many people have to die in war after war before the so called pro-life people start saying enough is enough?

Jesus said that if somebody steals your coat, give them your shirt too, not to mention turn the other cheek. Which I don't think he meant to literally let people walk over you, but it is hard to justify the death penalty and stand your ground legislation when you support murdering another person. Murders, rapists, etc may deserve it, but it is impossible for somebody to claim to be pro-life when they support the death penalty and stand your ground.

Hell, that's all without getting into the whole fact the party doesn't want to support that life if they are poor and needy after they are born. The party wants to get rid of food stamps and all other programs to help them. It doesn't matter that half the people who work for Walmart qualify for food stamps, despite the fact they can easily pay all their workers living wages, give the benefits and still be hugely profitable, the bad guy to the Republican right is those needing food stamps, and in fact they want to reward the owners/operators of Walmart and other businesses that refuse to pay living wages while punishing those who work for them... go work 80+ hours if needed is the Republican right's response. Plus Republican's oppose their own plan to create an affordable health care plan, just because it was passed by a black Democrat. They much rather roll back to the days where only those with really good jobs could have affordable health care, let everyone else die, they way they chanted at the one 2012 debate. You want to stop abortion? Then make sure every woman has access to affordable health care, including birth control... in fact encourage the use of birth control, especially IUDs which is ultra effective in stopping pregnancy (and contrary to the Republican right's teachings, modern non-copper IUDs don't reduce the chance of a fertilized egg from embedding... even modern copper ones's have only a very slight reduction) . The only difference between the women having abortion and those not is the issue of affordable health care and access to affordable and reliable birth control... and don't give the usual bull shit about how the pill is only $5 or so, you still have to be able to see a doctor and all that goes with it... plus the pill isn't the most effective method as if she forgets...

Death penalty is for a crime that was committed.
The fetus committed no crime.

@VoodooV

I guess you don't look at Ultrasounds. I see them every day.

GOV just want the mother to see that it is not a lump of tissue,which it isn't. A picture is worth a thousand words and watching a life in real time in a womb is not telling a lie to a patient.

I agree these are just roadblocks to slow down the murdering.

A better solution to this quagmire is to promote abstinence.

Republicans should be for this murdering. It stops future Democrat voters.

I know it won't work, because moderation doesn't exist here, but i'm going to attempt to invoke @dag on this one last time.

What does it take to get someone banned here? He was posting racist videos a couple weeks ago now he's all in for the murdering based on political affiliation.

It's tiresome dag, so tiresome. ignore isn't a solution, it's literally ignoring the problem.

I would like to point out that a while back, @bobknight33 actually calmly asked me to ignore him, so being a reasonable person I complied, but even though I have repeatedly asked him to do the same, he refuses to return the favor and instead continues to comment on and "to" me, knowing full well I can't read his posts (unless I log out and search them out, which I'm loath to do). Pretty douchey if you ask me.

I found his posts to be consistently whining, underhanded, backwards, bigoted, completely uneducated, and pretty much 100% wrong 100% of the time, and quite often completely ignoring or intentionally flaunting the rules here. I'm also curious why he has not at the least been hobbled yet. He clearly only comes here to try to 'rile up the lefties' and be as insulting as his intellect will allow, not to engage in rational discussion. That's why ignoring him was not a big deal, I wasn't missing anything worth reading. Sadly, as you point out, ignoring him is simply ignoring the problem and allowing it to fester.

And just to be contrary, @VoodooV, moderation can work here. Chingalera is gone. It does take a concerted effort and repeated, egregious rule violations to make it happen though. Good luck.

What if the problem is oversensitive children who want daddy to disappear everyone who disagrees with them? Whom do we invoke to solve that problem?

@newtboy

and how long did it take, and how painful was it to get the "Chingalera situation" resolved? How many sifts got Ching-jacked before something was finally done?

Hell, we couldn't even get Lantern out of here, he seems to have left of his own accord, (thanks btw, for I know you had a hand in inducing him to leave) but any day, he could come back and troll again.

@dag, this the childish behavior that exemplifies why having to invoke you publicly is a bad idea.

Most sites have a report button.

yes, moderation can work here, but it takes effort.

Don't see that here, just a lot of self congratulation for anniversaries while the community slowly rots

Yes. It was a long, painful slog to excise chingalera from the body. It was, in fact, the reason I started posting, because I just couldn't sit back and watch him make the sift an ugly place with little or no pushback.
Lantern, while I often disagreed with him vehemently, USUALLY didn't devolve into a 5 year old little girl who just had her ice cream taken away, ranting, screaming, cursing, and attacking anyone in earshot. It did happen, but not often. I realized one day that I seemed to be one of the few actually responding to his posts, so I ignored him, and he left soon afterwards. I thought the same thing might happen with bob, but clearly not. I shouldn't be so surprised though....my bad for expecting reasonable, rational, or even adult behavior from the die hard extreme right winger who spends his time on a left leaning site.

You know you could have written this in a private message to dag on his profile page, right?

I look at ultrasounds too. While I understand the sentiment of wanting to show that it's not just a lump of tissue, and it's certainly not a lie, it is also completely unnecessary. The government forcing you to do this is a violation of your rights.

Also, withdrawal of support is not the same as murdering. Even if you believe a fetus is alive and deserves the same protections as any human being, a woman should still have the rights for an abortion. The ethical arguments is thus:

If in some hypothetical situation, an adult human such as yourself, became completely dependent on my body to survive, your right to life does not trump my rights to my body. You cannot force yourself to leech off of my body for the next 9 months. I have the right to refuse you and let you die. It may not be a nice thing to do, and should be avoided whenever possible, but it is my right.

It is strange to me when conservatives who support small government and individual rights (including those who support laws like stand your ground, which lets you kill another human being), does not understand this concept.

Also promoting abstinence has been proven to be ineffective compared to education about birth control.

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Agreed.

Nevertheless, suggesting that a foetus isn't a living entity is absurd.

To be fair, the secondary definition of "entity" is :'being or existence, especially when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained: '...a fetus is absolutely not distinct, independent, or self contained, and so is not an entity, living or otherwise.
Also in his next paragraph he said "no independent living being", to me strongly implying it was the independent part of the definition he was disputing, not the 'living' part.

I have often wondered how the party of 'personal responsibility' can even consider forcing one person to physically support another 'person'* against their will. EDIT: It's also like granting instant squatters rights inside another person!

*I say "person" because they claim it is one, not because I'm conceding it's a person. I think it's not a "person" until it's lungs are full of air, people don't breathe fluid, and not an "entity" until the umbilical cord is cut. I could even support non-human status for a full year after birth like the ancient Greeks allegedly did, but I know that's WAY over most people's line. ;-)

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Gee, that's a bit harsh. Look, I completely disagree with what this guy is saying too. But you have to admit he represents the views of a sizeable portion of the American public.

Is it really better to chuck him out and risk becoming a groupthink choir? I know we've done it before, and there is definitely a line that can be crossed - but I'd rather not ban someone out just because he's saying what 60% of the US South thinks too.

@dag @newtboy @VoodooV

I do enjoy this site. I enjoy the posts and videos. I agree with some and disagree with others.


I don't complain to Dag when ever I am treated unfairly or a bad post is slandered against me. Even when I post video that clearly is to the disliking of most of this site and it gets yanked for having 3 down votes. I may think that is not fair but that's the rules, so be it.

As the minority on this site I could ask Dag to solicited more conservative viewpoints to this site but that would not be fair to ask him to help "stack the deck" for poor little ol me.

Liberals do not hold the majority view in America. Not by a long shot.
As of 2014
Conservatives 37%
Moderates 35%
Liberals 27%

So don't feel that you hold the majority opinion when you clearly don't.

Sifters may hold majority it here on the sift but in the real world Liberal ideas are a rightfully discarded ideas of crazy people.

Except Videosift is not just for Americans.

When you look at the majority opinion of the western world and especially the subset that speaks english, it is majority liberal by your standards.

America is remarkably ass backwards in comparison, so much so that your Liberal candidates appear moderate, and your Conservatives appear batshit insane.

You have to go to the middle east to a Muslim theocracy to find people more conservative than right wing America.

So don't feel that you're somehow under-represented in the developed world.

OK, since again you are going to continue to comment to and about me after asking me to ignore you (so I can't read your lies to reply to them), I logged out, read them, and now I'll comment back.

BULLSHIT! You had a shit fit for days when I downvoted a video you posted and it went to the bottom of 'new and upcoming videos', and you cried censorship over and over and claimed it had been removed because you couldn't find your own video. You complained to dag and lucky repeatedly, and tried to have me banned for erasing your video (which never happened, you were just too lazy or incapable to look for it, and continued complaining for days after multiple people pointed out you were 100% wrong and showed you where your video was).

No single political opinion is solicited here, so even the suggestion that those matching yours might be sought out by the admins to make it 'fair and balanced' for you shows a clear lack of understanding of the site and the world in general. At least you understand it won't happen.

As to your specious claim (based on a fox new poll or nothing at all?) that there are more conservatives than liberals in America, it's ridiculous, and easily contradicted with actual facts....for instance, the 2015 Gallup poll said "PRINCETON, N.J. -- Thirty-one percent of Americans describe their views on social issues as generally liberal, matching the percentage who identify as social conservatives for the first time in Gallup records dating back to 1999."...so even SELF identified liberals match self identified conservatives, if you go by actual political leanings on issues, there's no contest, 'liberals' outweigh 'conservatives' 3-1 (+-).
"Liberals" as you and the rest of the far right define them are clearly the majority view in America. Actual statistics follow:
Those in favor of reproductive choice >50%, anti choice<44%. 78% of Americans want Citizens United overturned. 70% of Americans don't want Social Security cut, 65% want it expanded. The same goes for wanting more financial regulations on banks and wall street, taxing the extremely rich at higher rates, adopting true single payer health care, doing public projects and works, having a standing army (yes, that's a liberal idea...as the army is a socialist program), etc. Those consistently holding "conservative" viewpoints across the board are an extremely small minority, contrary to how many people self identify.
"Conservatives" may hold a majority there in the Fox bubble, but in the real world they are a minority, consistently ridiculed for their total lack of knowledge about the things they complain about and for basing their backwards stances on 'truthiness' rather than fact, especially by those in other countries.

Now, once again, for the umpteenth time, I'll ask you kindly to "ignore" me just like you asked me to ignore you. It's pretty infantile to ask someone to ignore you so you can continue to publicly talk crap about and contradict them without fear that they'll respond...and I find that methodology typical of 'conservatives' that refuse to live by the rules they angrily insist everyone else must live by.
You really don't want me focusing on you in anger, which will happen if I'm forced to un-ignore you and re-engage because you can't quit me. Just stop and quit it, or no complaints when I re-engage with vigor and vitriol.

---Redacted----
Sometimes it's just better to move on...

I should find comfort that American Liberals are considered conservative by European standards.

I think not!

All the more reason for Americans to stand firm and fight back from the liberal trash else America will end up in the toilet as Europe is.

Coming back to the topic, anti-abortionists do not realize that you cant force people to be your version of moral.

You can enforce common concepts of morality by law but you first have to stop lying to yourselves about what those common concepts are and then be willing to accept a compromise.

An overwhelming majority of educated, civilized people now (as oppposed to a hundred years ago) believe (yep that stupid word again) that women, non-whites, marihuana smokers and liberals AND social democrats AND atheists, among others, are acceptable members of society capable to decide on their own what is good and bad, moral and immoral. Not just the grumpy rich old white anglo-saxon gentlemen club members anymore.

It is not a good tactic to try to decide approved morality for these "other" people either by means of social or real slavery, legislation, economic pressure or plain old brute force or gunpoint.

Rubio mentioned (off of one of his implanted CD´s) in one of the debates something about liberals wanting to legalize abortions to up to one day before the scheduled birth. It doesn´t get much more stupid than that.

Trump apparently switched to pro-life a couple of years ago in a press release.

Cruz favours condoms over abortion (which is IMHO fine BTW), oblivious to what the true christian stance is on condoms.

So anyway it is very difficult for the majority of civilized, educated people to accept this notion that ALL abortion is immoral and should be illegal just because SOME people maintain that view based on ideology and belief.

Once you get that in your head you can start having a discussion about which possible abortion cases are really immoral and unacceptable and in which cases you should concentrate on helping the woman rather than the little glob of cells trying to survive in a hostile environment.

If you REALLY want babies to survive you have to help the women, Bob, you cant go against them.

Tell me, does it hurt when you have to think? Were you always this stupid or did you have to work at it?

I'm genuinely curious

Bob, I'm unsure how you can reach the decision that preventing a 13 year old rape victim from terminating an unwanted pregnancy is not a punishment.

Let's say that you or I was raped by a person with HIV and contracted the disease. To mimic the abortion situation, let's also say that there was a large segment of society that, for religious or cultural reasons, felt that treatment of HIV should not be allowed. Would you not feel that you were being punished unfairly by not being allowed treatment for something you had no control over?

In any case, these laws will not stand in the end. They are simply new versions of Jim Crow Laws to prevent what a small segment of society doesn't like. The sad thing is that a lot of young girls and women will be traumatized or die because of them. Religious people need to stop trying to make laws to force people to follow their tenets.

And what about EVERYTHING else he said?

You got taken to task here bob, and it was a thing of beauty.

Don't know if she was raped.

But if so I would concede to abortion to rape, incest or to keep the mother from dying from complications of pregnancy.