Christian Anti-Defamation Commission's Top Ten Instances of Christian Bashing in America, 2008 found here:

http://www.christianadc.org/news-and-articles/125-top-ten-instances-of-christian-bashing-in-america-2008

This is a quite unfair.

First off, gay people appropriated the word "gay".

Beyond this ridiculous semantic argument .. I personally know of priests who had their fingernails ripped out because they would not renounce Christ. They were tortured for days and eventually were murdered and thrown into a shallow grave. This is recently .. within the last 10 years .. I'm not talking about the martyrdom that has taken place for millennia. Whether you share their belief's or not, these were good, honest people who went to dangerous areas all over the world, sacrificing themselves to minister to others.

It's popular to make fun of Catholics but, believe it or not, not every priest is a child molester and most Christian's are not the psychos people make them out to be. The truth is, good, caring Christians have been tortured, murdered and have literally had their brains bashed in long before any gay person thought they coined the term "bashing". They paid for concepts like "intolerance" while they were being eaten alive by lions at a time when homosexuality was completely accepted.

Don't let one list from one group about events in one nation confuse you into thinking that Christians are not "bashed" all the time, around the globe, every day .. and have been for many hundreds of years.

I'm an advocate for gay rights and that's evidenced by my video submissions and comments on the sift. But that's because I'm an advocate for human rights. Being gay doesn't make your suffering more important than others when you are discriminated against or worse .. bashed. Why would any gay person want to own "bashing"? Shouldn't any of this kind of treatment be abhorrent to everyone?

I feel like this video does a disservice to the gay community. Gay people should not be trying to win a "I've been hurt more than you" contest. All this accomplishes is alienating more people to their cause. Which should be everyone's cause .. the fair treatment of all.

hear hear!
my goodness.
i want to just copy and paste your comment on 80% of the videos on the sift recently.

>> ^burdturgler:
This is a quite unfair.
First off, gay people appropriated the word "gay".
Beyond this ridiculous semantic argument .. I personally know of priests who had their fingernails ripped out because they would not renounce Christ. They were tortured for days and eventually were murdered and thrown into a shallow grave. This is recently .. within the last 10 years .. I'm not talking about the martyrdom that has taken place for millennia. Whether you share their belief's or not, these were good, honest people who went to dangerous areas all over the world, sacrificing themselves to minister to others.
It's popular to make fun of Catholics but, believe it or not, not every priest is a child molester and most Christian's are not the psychos people make them out to be. The truth is, good, caring Christians have been tortured, murdered and have literally had their brains bashed in long before any gay person thought they coined the term "bashing". They paid for concepts like "intolerance" while they were being eaten alive by lions at a time when homosexuality was completely accepted.
Don't let one list from one group about events in one nation confuse you into thinking that Christians are not "bashed" all the time, around the globe, every day .. and have been for many hundreds of years.
I'm an advocate for gay rights and that's evidenced by my video submissions and comments on the sift. But that's because I'm an advocate for human rights. Being gay doesn't make your suffering more important than others when you are discriminated against or worse .. bashed. Why would any gay person want to own "bashing"? Shouldn't any of this kind of treatment be abhorrent to everyone?
I feel like this video does a disservice to the gay community. Gay people should not be trying to win a "I've been hurt more than you" contest. All this accomplishes is alienating more people to their cause. Which should be everyone's cause .. the fair treatment of all.


Right. Whatever. Gays get way more shit than Christians.

Burdturgler, are you talking about christians being tortured in another country, or something? The context of the video is based entirely in the current American environment, so bringing up situations from the past or other locales is not really helping the discussion.

Arguing that American christians are in any way discriminated against or "bashed" in America, is a fairly empty argument, imo.

Ultimately, it doesn't help the situation at all to say "christian's are bashed too" - when the real problem is that the worst of the christian group are perpetrating the crimes and need to be held accountable. Not only is the comment of "christian bashing" greatly untrue (within the context of America), it distracts from solving the real problem. Instead of trying to protect the christian image, I would focus inwardly towards your group, acknowledge what's going on in the dregs of christian society, and set out to solve it. Without doing that, you're indirectly part of the problem, simply standing by as the minority of your majority (if it is indeed a minority) muddy the waters for everyone.

I think it's hilarious that they are called Cattle...

Burd, the point is that Christians are trying to gather sympathy as if they were beat up on the street with this "bashing".

Unorganized homosexuality predates organized religion.

All crimes are hate crimes.

"gay rights" what does that even mean? exactly what rights do you derive from being gay? if i stop having sex with women, and start having sex with guys, how do i gain new rights?

>> ^burdturgler:
This is a quite unfair.
First off, gay people appropriated the word "gay".
Beyond this ridiculous semantic argument .. I personally know of priests who had their fingernails ripped out because they would not renounce Christ. They were tortured for days and eventually were murdered and thrown into a shallow grave. This is recently .. within the last 10 years .. I'm not talking about the martyrdom that has taken place for millennia. Whether you share their belief's or not, these were good, honest people who went to dangerous areas all over the world, sacrificing themselves to minister to others.
It's popular to make fun of Catholics but, believe it or not, not every priest is a child molester and most Christian's are not the psychos people make them out to be. The truth is, good, caring Christians have been tortured, murdered and have literally had their brains bashed in long before any gay person thought they coined the term "bashing". They paid for concepts like "intolerance" while they were being eaten alive by lions at a time when homosexuality was completely accepted.
Don't let one list from one group about events in one nation confuse you into thinking that Christians are not "bashed" all the time, around the globe, every day .. and have been for many hundreds of years.
I'm an advocate for gay rights and that's evidenced by my video submissions and comments on the sift. But that's because I'm an advocate for human rights. Being gay doesn't make your suffering more important than others when you are discriminated against or worse .. bashed. Why would any gay person want to own "bashing"? Shouldn't any of this kind of treatment be abhorrent to everyone?
I feel like this video does a disservice to the gay community. Gay people should not be trying to win a "I've been hurt more than you" contest. All this accomplishes is alienating more people to their cause. Which should be everyone's cause .. the fair treatment of all.



I think it is important to note that Christians have been at times, historically--and as you pointed out--recently been assaulted, bashed, lynched, discriminated against, subject to hate crimes and murdered for their religious orientation. No one said that such heinous acts didn't happen to christians, or pretty much every other religion group at one point or another in their history. However, these real crimes are not mentioned in the discussion that this videos author is presenting.

I don't believe that this video is attempting to win a "I've been hurt worse" argument as you have suggested, as such an argument would have to take history in to account (as well as the very real possibility that the majority of crimes against gays in the U.S. are committed by Christians..). The video's author has instead focused on returning the use of words to their definitions so that their meanings are not diluted into obscurity. What would someone say in a call to 911 when their friend is being a assaulted or having their brains bashed in when the meaning of both words was reduced to mean "insult" or even less? Would police rush to the scene of a reported name calling? Should new words that actually have mean something be invented to replace the words we have once their meaning is reduced to nothing?

Now I don't think that words like "attack", "bashing" or "assault" should belong to Gays or any other single group. They should be used when the events they describe actually happen. But the language that the church groups have been using that is cited in this video is misleading. It makes a parody on the meaning of those words. I don't think this should be taken as an attack insult against the Christian groups per se, but against the action they took by misusing (and abusing) language.

Were the offended Christians wronged? Maybe. They have every right to keep tally of insults against them if they feel offended. But over most of what is listed in the "top ten" in this video, one could also expect that a Christian might follow one of their more famous doctrines and turn the other cheek. Instead these few assemble their league of CATL to use very militant words to push politics, not community or understanding as the bible recommends. Christ stood for better than that.

>> ^imstellar28:
"gay rights" what does that even mean? exactly what rights do you derive from being gay? if i stop having sex with women, and start having sex with guys, how do i gain new rights?


I think the point would be to retain your rights.

Christians seems to get hurt going to "minister" where they aren't welcome.. and not just hurt, killed/eaten/tortured. They should take a hint?

I've never had someone "force" me to listen to how gay their sex is, but I constantly have people exclaiming just how "awesome" their god is... like this 21 year old virgin girl in one of my classes who never shuts up about her boyfriend and how the only thing she doesn't like about religion is how it affects relationships... (yet she can't make the leap between the idea of intimate relationships to viewing relationships with ALL humans... but don't worry I say nothing because that's her right to be stupid)

Anyway, I was thinking... if one believed something, like a child believing a toy will be fun and having the feeling of excitement, before they really know what a toy is or fun is, etc...

if that feeling/belief coincides, then feeling is belief?

then homosexuality is a belief....

therefore gays should be tax exempt.

COOL!

>> ^imstellar28:
"gay rights" what does that even mean? exactly what rights do you derive from being gay? if i stop having sex with women, and start having sex with guys, how do i gain new rights?


You should gain the right not to be hurt for doing it.

This guy is taking CADL at face value, which he probably shouldn't, because clearly, they seem more interested in discouraging people from questioning religion than actually addressing the subject of prejudice-based hate or violence. It's also kind of silly to play victim when you are the reigning champion of your cultural category (you never hear complaints of 'white-bashing', 'rich-bashing' or 'male-bashing').

As Mr. Turgler suggests, most of the present anti-Christian hate and violence resides in the Middle East. Perhaps CADL should relocate.

imsteller,

I know social conservatives have fantastical daydreams about the term 'gay rights', wherein gay people get some kind of special exclusive rights, but in reality, it just means 'equal rights (for gay people)'.

When you hear 'gay rights', just substitute 'equal rights' in your own mind to avoid confusion. You could even print this comment and pin it to your shirt if you are forgetful.

I think we can all agree that physically hurting someone for a belief, view, opinion, sexual orientation, or anything like that is just wrong and evil. I also think we can all agree that Christians, as well as every other religious peoples, has been attacked in the past (and I'm sure to some extent in the present). The big difference is, that in present day America, Christians aren't beaten, bloodied, and murdered over their beliefs. Gays however are. Also, no one is trying to take away rights from Christians. They are however trying to take them away from Gays. I always find it so hard to accept that everyone has forgotten the golden rule we all learned in kindergarten. "Treat others as you wish to be treated." If everyone followed this simple rule, the world would be a much simpler and better place. Except for sadomasochists, they'd be really misunderstood.


Also, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and whoever else, have no right to be offended when people question or mock their beliefs. They are BELIEFS. You chose to believe them. If you don't like people arguing against your religion, you can just quit. Gay people can't just quit being gay, regardless of what religious extremists might say.

I like to sucker punch lordoderus because he has a big nose.

this is biased garbage, and boring at that. He is using "bashing" in the literal sense for the gay cases he presents, but not for the Christian cases.

^dystopianfuturetoday
'equal rights (for gay people)'.

Thanks for saying that, I was getting ready to before I read your comment.

^J-Rova
See vairetube's comment: Christians seems to get hurt going to "minister" where they aren't welcome.. and not just hurt, killed/eaten/tortured. They should take a hint?
I've never had someone "force" me to listen to how gay their sex is, but I constantly have people exclaiming just how "awesome" their god is...

People are not afraid of saying "god bless you" when someone sneezes but children are afraid of telling their parents that they are attracted to the same sex. Rightly so, as there does exist a huge amount of discrimination against the homosexual community today.

Think about the way we use the words in our language even. I'm as guilty as anyone for saying "that's gay" in a derogatory sense. But if you flip it around and say something is christian it doesn't carry nearly any negative connotations in our society. In fact for the most part it's a point of pride. And while I feel like being gay should be a point of pride, the juxtaposition between pride in homosexuality and Christianity should be corrected. Correct me if I'm wrong but majority of child molesters identify themselves as heterosexual, not homosexual.

Ok, violence against anyone because of beliefs or genetics is a terrible thing.

With that being said, how can this guy use the term "lesbian" to describe someone who isn't from Lesbos? It's their word and I am offended that he thinks he can use it!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7376919.stm

>> ^Psychologic:
...how can this guy use the term "lesbian" to describe someone who isn't from Lesbos? It's their word and I am offended that he thinks he can use it!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7376919.stm


omfg that is so gay.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
I like to sucker punch lordoderus because he has a big nose.


I may have a giant nose, but I also have hair.


oooooh sick burn!

haha

what rights do gay people need, that humans don't already have? thats the problem i have with this: don't frame it as a gay rights issue because its not about gay rights its about human rights. frame it that way and suddenly you have drawn an imaginary line between two groups: "gays" and "non-gays" -- and division creates conflict.

gays have the right to marry/have gay sex/do gay things/give gay blowjobs because they are humans, not because they are gay.

frame it in a different context and suddenly a "gay basher" has a whole lot more in common with a gay person. frame it as a human rights issue, and the only way to take away a gay person's rights is to argue that gays are "subhuman" or "nonhuman" ...thats a lot more difficult than arguing that "homosexuality is wrong".

ask not of a gay basher, "should you bash gays?" ask him, "should you bash humans?"

^ have you always been in the habit of making laughably fatuous, mawkish, tautologically nonsensical arguments, or is this a new hobby?

>> ^stephenfryftw:
^ have you always been in the habit of making laughably fatuous, mawkish, tautologically nonsensical arguments, or is this a new hobby?

You've contributed nothing to this site since you puked into existence here, and nothing to this conversation. So, thanks for nothing. Congratulations on finding thesaurus.com . Your meaningless, worthless bullshit is hereafter ignored.

>> ^imstellar28:
what rights do gay people need, that humans don't already have?

Perhaps the right to marry the person they love, for example.

My take on the video was that by CADL appropriating the term "bashing" to describe instances where their beliefs may have been mocked or come out in a bad light is two-fold.

1. People who casually read the list or hear about it will then assume that because the same word is used "bashing" with respect to gay or christian "bashing" then people will just assume that it means the same in both contexts.

2. The repercussions of removing or altering the use of language that one group has been using to describe a very serious issue and to now use it to describe something that is honestly trivial in comparison (a 5min parody musical number vs. being beaten to death). It weakens the meaning of the word, think of the backlash if a different word that people use for a very serious description was misappropriated to describe something completely different, for example holocaust or genocide or rape.

This I believe is the issue at hand here, not which group has suffered more.

Most Christians need to learn a few things about their own faith. Try taking a university level class on the topic of your religion. Maybe you can get rid of a few false understandings before lecturing the rest of us on your great morality and values.

Link: Here is a good start.
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=643

who cares??? about either sides...

And once again the internet destroys my hope for humanity. How is it people can't even agree that "bashing" is bad, PERIOD!

Instead of agreeing on such an obvious point, people would rather fight over which group is the bigger victim. Stop it already!

Churches are burnt down by arsonists and gays are beaten nearly death in the streets, all of this goes on in America today! Condemn both acts already so everyone get on with stopping the ignorant, violent criminals responsible for both crimes. If you defend either act or even lessen it in anyway you are part of the problem.

>> ^burdturgler:
>> ^stephenfryftw:
^ have you always been in the habit of making laughably fatuous, mawkish, tautologically nonsensical arguments, or is this a new hobby?

You've contributed nothing to this site since you puked into existence here, and nothing to this conversation. So, thanks for nothing. Congratulations on finding thesaurus.com . Your meaningless, worthless bullshit is hereafter ignored.


Not exactly sure why you're taking this video so personally unless you are a member of CADL...

It seems aimed at them specifically, not Christianity in general.

>> ^solvent:
who cares??? about either sides...


Quite a few people I'd imagine. Those wishing to debate equal rights, symantics, definition, homosexuality and religion.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this debate has evolved or if people are just missing the mark. As previously mentioned, he's not trying to reclaim the word or win a competition of 1-upsmanship. He's trying to convey his opinion that the definitions of 'bashing' used within the CADL are inappropriate.

However, you can't really invalidate the use of 'bashing' in cases of verbal attacks (I use 'attack' for reference rather than a descriptor) by giving evidence of physical attacks as a counterpoint. Even if you're trying to prove definition, which I'll get back to later.

>> ^burdturgler:
This is a quite unfair.
It's popular to make fun of Catholics but, believe it or not, not every priest is a child molester and most Christian's are not the psychos people make them out to be. The truth is, good, caring Christians have been tortured, murdered and have literally had their brains bashed in long before any gay person thought they coined the term "bashing". They paid for concepts like "intolerance" while they were being eaten alive by lions at a time when homosexuality was completely accepted.
Don't let one list from one group about events in one nation confuse you into thinking that Christians are not "bashed" all the time, around the globe, every day .. and have been for many hundreds of years.
I'm an advocate for gay rights and that's evidenced by my video submissions and comments on the sift. But that's because I'm an advocate for human rights. Being gay doesn't make your suffering more important than others when you are discriminated against or worse .. bashed. Why would any gay person want to own "bashing"? Shouldn't any of this kind of treatment be abhorrent to everyone?
I feel like this video does a disservice to the gay community. Gay people should not be trying to win a "I've been hurt more than you" contest. All this accomplishes is alienating more people to their cause. Which should be everyone's cause .. the fair treatment of all.


Whilst this comment isn't really relative to mine, I'd like to point out that historical terms of discrimination cannot be used effectivly to reference modern socialogical arguments or positions. Using that logic you could argue to the same degree/direction for black/jewish/muslim/intelligent/aristocracy/chinese whatever. Unless theres a definate example of a similar case in modern society, the point of homosexuality/christians only serves as a point of irony.

Saying that, stating that 'Gay people should not be trying to win a "I've been hurt more than you" contest.' after giving examples of christian hardship also has a scent of irony about it.

>> ^notarobot:
The video's author has instead focused on returning the use of words to their definitions so that their meanings are not diluted into obscurity. What would someone say in a call to 911 when their friend is being a assaulted or having their brains bashed in when the meaning of both words was reduced to mean "insult" or even less? Would police rush to the scene of a reported name calling? Should new words that actually have mean something be invented to replace the words we have once their meaning is reduced to nothing?


That depends on how you define the 'definition'. And if its the definition thats not being observed here or the context.

1. the act of beating, whipping, or thrashing: a series of unsolved bashings and robberies.
2. a decisive defeat: We gave the visiting team a good bashing.
3. (used in combination)
a. unprovoked physical assaults against members of a specified group: gay-bashing.
b. verbal abuse, as of a group or a nation: feminist-bashing; China-bashing.

According to dictionary.com, both versions are covered. Context is a fundamental concept of using language, which this video has neglected to observe.

Essentially, the video proposes an argument, in an unfair manner, disreguarding context of language, and substituting severity of case as a valid counterpoint. To quote Stephen Fry; 'Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong'.

As for our debate. Either way, I think we're all in agreement that discrimination is wrong, English needs to be used correctly, and that both groups have their points, but neither are really compatable with each other.

Now, time for a cup of tea.

>> ^Asmo:
>> ^burdturgler:
>> ^stephenfryftw:
^ have you always been in the habit of making laughably fatuous, mawkish, tautologically nonsensical arguments, or is this a new hobby?

You've contributed nothing to this site since you puked into existence here, and nothing to this conversation. So, thanks for nothing. Congratulations on finding thesaurus.com . Your meaningless, worthless bullshit is hereafter ignored.

Not exactly sure why you're taking this video so personally unless you are a member of CADL...
It seems aimed at them specifically, not Christianity in general.


It should be obvious that my quote there was in response to stephenfryftw's idiotic comment, not to the video.

>> ^bcglorf:
And once again the internet destroys my hope for humanity. How is it people can't even agree that "bashing" is bad, PERIOD!
Instead of agreeing on such an obvious point, people would rather fight over which group is the bigger victim. Stop it already!
Churches are burnt down by arsonists and gays are beaten nearly death in the streets, all of this goes on in America today! Condemn both acts already so everyone get on with stopping the ignorant, violent criminals responsible for both crimes. If you defend either act or even lessen it in anyway you are part of the problem.



The point is that Christianity's intolerance encourages ignorance and violence, so if they want to discourage intolerance, their own would be a good place to start.

It's virtuous to seek to hold responsible those elements within a group that promote excesses and fallacies.

>> ^burdturgler:
It should be obvious that my quote there was in response to stephenfryftw's idiotic comment, not to the video.


Actually, I was referring to your original post and it's ongoing defense. ; )

Just thought I'd save some space on the quote.

All I see is a guy debunking 10 pieces of propaganda and countering them with displays of people who were truly "bashed".

>> ^Asmo:
>> ^burdturgler:
It should be obvious that my quote there was in response to stephenfryftw's idiotic comment, not to the video.

Actually, I was referring to your original post and it's ongoing defense. ; )
Just thought I'd save some space on the quote.
All I see is a guy debunking 10 pieces of propaganda and countering them with displays of people who were truly "bashed".


I really don't know what the fuck you're talking about, because I haven't said anything in defense of my post.
I'm not going to argue about it. I said what I wanted to say in my first post and I'm leaving it at that. People are entitled to have different opinions than me and I respect that. That doesn't mean I won't call out someone for being a fucking troll though.

>> ^chilaxe:
>> ^bcglorf:
And once again the internet destroys my hope for humanity. How is it people can't even agree that "bashing" is bad, PERIOD!
Instead of agreeing on such an obvious point, people would rather fight over which group is the bigger victim. Stop it already!
Churches are burnt down by arsonists and gays are beaten nearly death in the streets, all of this goes on in America today! Condemn both acts already so everyone get on with stopping the ignorant, violent criminals responsible for both crimes. If you defend either act or even lessen it in anyway you are part of the problem.


The point is that Christianity's intolerance encourages ignorance and violence, so if they want to discourage intolerance, their own would be a good place to start.
It's virtuous to seek to hold responsible those elements within a group that promote excesses and fallacies.


No, the point is ignorance like the belief that Christianity's intolerance encourages ignorance and violence is what actually does encourage ignorance and violence. Ignorant and/or violent people come in all colors, Christian and gay are just one of the many banners that might happen to be worn by violent ignorant criminals.

Once again condemn people for beating up gay people, but do it WITHOUT condemning Christianity unless you somehow enjoy the endless cycle of violence and revenge that is human history and you just can't help but want to be a part of it.

^Your holy book advocates stoning gays to death. If you don't want to be held responsible for your book, take out the parts that are hateful, instead of simply saying "those parts don't count."

If people want to legislate their religion, it's fair play to talk about their religion openly.

If people want to legislate their religion, it's fair play to talk about their religion openly.


I'd go further and say any religion not wanting to be talked about openly is a cult that should be banned immediately.


Your holy book advocates stoning gays to death. If you don't want to be held responsible for your book, take out the parts that are hateful, instead of simply saying "those parts don't count."


Your ignorance is cringe worthy. Yes, everyone that's at least gone so far as to open a bible to the Old Testament has no doubt noticed that a great many sins are listed, with the penalty being death. If you've spent more than 5 minutes discussing this with any Christian it should have been pointed out to you that the entire purpose of Christ's life was doing away with the old law and creating a new one.

In the entirety of the Bible, how many times can anyone find Christ or any of his followers so much as raising a hand against anyone? About the only example would be when Christ chased a group of people out of a temple for using religion to exploit the poor. It seems impossibly obvious that even considering beating somebody else up for committing a sin is completely contrary to Christian behavior.

If you want to condemn groups that defend gay bashing, then Christian's are your allies. Anybody claiming to be a Christian and opposing such a cause isn't living the life they claim to be.

*law

Adding video to channels (Law) - requested by rottenseed.