Q: What do you call parents who teach their children abstinence only?
A: Grandparents.

I do feel terribly sorry for Bristol, though. Just imagine what a little bit of knowledge about the birds and the bees could've prevented. And, given what Palin has said before (I'd Oppose Abortion Even If My Own Daughter Was Raped) I surely hope they're not marrying her off to a rapist (btw, what is the age of consent in Alaska?).

I, too, feel sorry for Bristol and think that the Dems should just steer clear of this one.

But can you imagine what the GOP would be saying if it were Obama's daughter instead?

We're about to see the magnitude of GOP hypocrisy at its worst.

No need for the dems to point and laugh. Everyone else will.

Here's the campaign's new theme song: http://www.videosift.com/video/Winger-Seventeen

I agree with the commentator, people are going to identify with Palin...because she is a retard and so are 94% of Americans.

I hope this doesn't mean she had pre-marital sexual relations.

I did not have relations with that woman.

^LOL! As soon as I saw this video I was going to accuse you. Because there's only like six guys in Alaska.

McCain tapped Palin? This is getting better an better!

I can just see that boy having a sit down w/ the Palins and a few choice GOP high ups.....shotgun in hand.
"We own you now young man. Now we'll love you as part of the family, but step out of line once boy and your ass is over. Understood son?"

I'm all for a good political fight, but let's leave the candidates kids out of it. This is none of our business.

WTF WAS McCAIN THINKING: part 2 in an ongoing 24 part series.

I agree that Barack Obama and his campaign should stay out of this, it'll only make them look like villains, even if they were just pointing out the truth and hypocrisy.

And I hate to say this, but this is one of those issues where the media and liberal attack dogs have a valid place. First of all the girl's pregnancy, age, and unwed status are all facts. This isn't some unsubstantiated rumor being propped up as fact by a few feeble bits of evidence.

Secondly, and this is the defining part of why this is an issue. McCain and Palin are running on a family values, (abstinence only, sex after marriage) platform. In fact Palin was brought in specifically to appeal to voters based on her values. And her daughter is off makin babies out of wedlock. She can't even control her own daughter with abstinence only, how the hell does she think its going to work with everyone else.

As for the abortion thing, they're making a big deal out of the fact she's choosing to carry the baby. So the fuck what, their whole position is there shouldn't be a choice in the first place.

The salient point: HYPOCRISY - Palin is so eager to legislate the Morality of everyone else in the country, yet refuses to ensure that it's Taught and Enforced in her own home.

Hey Sarah, instead of preaching Creationism and repeal of Roe v. Wade maybe you should've noticed that your own daughter was humping like a mink in the back seat of some guy's car.

As that J.C. guy said : "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

You can't call Palin hypocrite because her daughter got pregnant. Teaching abstinence is about taking responsibility for sex. The teen made the choice and now has the consequence.

Now if Palin had her secretly abort her baby to avoid embarrassment.. THEN she would be a hypocrite.

One of her 3 qualifications for being handed a VP nomination is that she's a parent. Given that, it seems fair to ask if she's represented in her own household the values she asks citizens to trust her with.

While I agree that the dems should steer clear of this one, I can't help but think that the McCain rhetoric of "mother of 5" being a good argument for leadership might be downplayed after all this.

Sarah Palin is a disgusting bitch who should be executed for her criminal positions on abortion, gay marriage and drugs. Guess how much I don't give a shit about her parental competence.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
I'm all for a good political fight, but let's leave the candidates kids out of it. This is none of our business.


I don't think her kids are out of bounds--because her failed family policies are very much our business. Her same lack of family planning and anti-abortion, anti-birth control policies which resulted in five kids, one of whom is retarded (she had it at 43 years old, which is borderline socially irresponsible), and one of whom is underage and pregnant, are the same failed policies that are going to be forced down the throats of 300 million americans at gunpoint.

>> ^swampgirl:
You can't call Palin hypocrite because her daughter got pregnant. Teaching abstinence is about taking responsibility for sex. The teen made the choice and now has the consequence.
Now if Palin had her secretly abort her baby to avoid embarrassment.. THEN she would be a hypocrite.


Quite right swampgirl. It's not about hypocrisy, it's about failed policy. And the refusal to change even after a policy has been proven wrong.

dft, we should leave the children out, except when the children are proving the incompetence of the parents. If they can't lead their family in the right direction, what business do they have leading the country?

>> ^swampgirl:
You can't call Palin hypocrite because her daughter got pregnant. Teaching abstinence is about taking responsibility for sex. The teen made the choice and now has the consequence.
Now if Palin had her secretly abort her baby to avoid embarrassment.. THEN she would be a hypocrite.


Teaching your child a severely deficient philosophy such as abstinence, while refusing to allow her access to birth control or the information about condom use at such a young age is grounds for a conviction of criminal negligence in my opinion.

So every mistake you make in your life you can blame your incompetent parents failure to raise you to make every decision correct.

The moment that 17 year old girl decided to have sex..she took the chance that act could produce a child and hasten her adulthood responsibilities. Children can be held accountable for their actions.

The girl is 17. Childhood over. Not her parent's fault. She rebelled against her parent's advice.

I disagree, abstinence is about not having sex. Being responsible about sex is who you have it with, how and the sort of birth control and disease prevention devices you use. I call her hypocrite because she suggests abstinence is a good method of preventing teen pregnancy, and should be the only method taught in schools and yet it doesn't seem to have worked with her own daughter (I assume this is what she taught her daughter or she'd be an even bigger hypocrite). At the very least it provides evidence at how irresponsible a position that is, and calls into question her judgment.

Now if the girl and her boyfriend wanted(planned in advance) to have a baby that'd be another case. Though I'm assuming since they didn't say that the pregnancy was unplanned. Or if it was due to actual failure of birth control (And by failure I don't mean improper/ineffective use), that is also another issue.

>> ^swampgirl:
You can't call Palin hypocrite because her daughter got pregnant. Teaching abstinence is about taking responsibility for sex. The teen made the choice and now has the consequence.
Now if Palin had her secretly abort her baby to avoid embarrassment.. THEN she would be a hypocrite.


EDIT: (I need to learn to type/post faster on these hot debate topics). Yes the girl is responsible for her actions, but her family is responsible for the information she's given on the topic. Was she ever taught condoms ever an option for this girl? Birthcontrol? Emergency contraception? Have teenagers ever stopped having sex at any point in history for any reason?

Birth control isn't the issue here. The young couple could easily obtain it.

Leaving the family out of it is the decent thing to do. That's why it's so infuriating to see this come up now, after the GOP went after Michelle Obama so hard in the past, trying to paint her as unpatriotic. It shouldn't have come up then, and negativity towards Palin has no place here now, but I'll bet anything that the GOP stance will be quite different now that the shoe is on the other foot. I really hate politics sometimes.

>> ^swampgirl:
Birth control isn't the issue here. The young couple could easily obtain it.


Birth control is part of the bigger issue here, which is; Abstinence-only education, which her mother is a staunch proponent of, is a fucking joke.

If Sarah Palin taught her daughter this nonsense, which resulted in Bristol making stupid decisions, then yes, Sarah helped create this mess. Who knows what Bristol was planning on doing with her life, but that's all now irrelevant.




Again, what is the age of consent in Alaska?

Let me put it another way. Abstinence is like saying the best way to avoid from getting injured in a car wreck is to not drive or ride in a car.

As opposed to other methods of sex education which would be like saying, if you’re going to drive a car wear a seat belt, learn to drive defensively, make sure your vehicle is road safe, don’t drive under the influence, only ride with people you know are good drivers etc etc.

If you only teach a person not to drive, and not how to drive safely if they do decide to drive what sort of position do you leave them in? Isn’t the teacher responsible for giving the best information available? Does that not make the teacher in some way responsible if they insist that not driving is the only thing that should be taught in order to avoid getting in a car accident, or a hypocrite if time after time people in ‘don’t drive’ driver’s education keep getting into car accidents? So yeah, the person driving is responsible, but so is the dumbass who’s best solution for driver’s education was to not drive.

Hmm... I was expecting at least one 'GMILF' joke... a little disappointed that ya'll are just treating this like its something that matters.

>> ^swampgirl:
The moment that 17 year old girl decided to have sex..she took the chance that act could produce a child and hasten her adulthood responsibilities. Children can be held accountable for their actions.

Abortion is a perfectly valid form of birth control. If she didn't have such an evil coon of a mother she would be taking no such chance.

^... whats this guy's deal? is he playing some kind of 'militantly-liberal' character or something? because it is kinda funny, but not haha funny.

my only point - don't wave your family values moral crusade in my face when it's obvious you can't even raise your own kid to follow it.

James Dobson, of the conservative Christian group Focus On The Family, said in 2006 regarding the child of (lesbian couple) Mary Cheney and Heather Poe:

In raising these issues, Focus on the Family does not desire to harm or insult women such as Cheney and Poe. Rather, our conviction is that birth and adoption are the purview of married heterosexual couples. Traditional marriage is God's design for the family and is rooted in biblical truth. When that divine plan is implemented, children have the best opportunity to thrive. That's why public policy as it relates to families must be based not solely on the desires of adults but rather on the needs of children and what is best for society at large.

>> ^volumptuous:
Again, what is the age of consent in Alaska?


It's 16, with a 3 year difference for statutory rape.

I wonder, did the McCain campaign know about this?

I think this is one more piece of evidence that Palin was a last-minute, un-vetted, pick.

Yes, I know the McCain campaign claims foreknowledge, but I don't believe that one bit.

I agree with the sentiment that Bristol herself should be left alone, but I think Palin should get grilled about the kind of example this sets for the first family, and to explain her position on sex education, what sorts of things she'd told her daughter about sex, does she know the father, approve of the relationship, etc.

After all, imagine if Obama had a pregnant teenage daughter. It'd be 24/7 focus on that, and forget hurricane Gustav.

^fdisk: Wait, if McCain tapped Bristol's mom, that means that McCain might be the Father/Grandfather!!!!!
...this is soooo good.

There's rumor that Trig (the baby with Down Syndrome) is Palin's daughter's daughter, and not her own. Pretty controversial family, eh. Great moral example they set. Guess they couldn't lie their way out of this one, tho.

Age of Consent global map (Wiki).

Wait, wait wait wait.

She named her daughter Bristol?

Until now I only associated that name with a city in England, and the boards we used to display our science fair projects.

Forget the other controversies, what's up with that NAME?

[cue ironic tie-in back to the silly and ongoing bitchfest about Obama's name]

BTW, it's gotta suck for Bristol University that they're #6 after Miss Palin now.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=bristol

Ouch.

>> ^Trancecoach:
There's rumor that Trig (the baby with Down Syndrome) is Palin's daughter's daughter, and not her own. Pretty controversial family, eh. Great moral example they set. Guess they couldn't lie their way out of this one, tho.


When Sarah Palin was pregnant with Trig, she pulled her daughter (the same one who is pregnant now) out of school for 7 months so that she could "care for" her pregnant mom. The daughter also allegedly had mononucleosis during that time, so she simultaneously spent 7 months recuperating and caring for her gestating mother.

Does sound a little suspicious, but I'm not aware of any other evidence beyond what I just stated.

Kudos to Obama for telling the media that this stuff is off-limits.

I have to say, though, it's pretty funny that the McCain campaign is working overtime on this, saying the girl's going to get married to the father, she's going to keep the baby, the family is supportive, McCain knew about it beforehand, etc.

I always cringe when I hear about a teenage mother marrying the baby's father... it may or may not be the best thing to do, but give it some time... there's no need to rush and make an unfortunate situation even worse by going all shotgun.

Don't worry, as President, her abstinence only policies will be as successful as her equal time for creationism and evolution and the environmentalists will love her polar bears are not endangered they just need to find a new food source and habitat, as the north slope is now sold to a Canadian firm to suck out all the natural gas.

Did she mention she will support even more windfall tax on oil companies FOR Alaakans, but not for the rest of the country.

Don't worry, her father was a science teacher, so she knows the importance about why all kids must learn the Earth is only 12,000 years old.

There is a rumour that SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU ASSHATS.

Does it matter who was pregnant ever? Who cares if her doctor told her she can fly home? Who cares if her daughter is/was knocked up. Who cares who stayed home from school for how long. They are all losing arguments.

SHE IS THE MOST UNDER-QUALIFIED PERSON EVER NOMINATED. period.

She is another "Brownie" or "Goodling" and a signal that cronyism and religious pedigree have already destroyed this country if we are at the point where this is the GOP VP pick.

For fucks sake, Dan Quayle has a law degree and was elected twice to the U.S. House of Representatives and twice to the goddamn Senate. She got 2nd place in a beauty pageant in a state where the total population was under 500,000. And the media has nothing else to say about her than her PTA leadership. I mean come on.

^Actually Joe, if Ms. Palin faked a pregnancy to cover for her daughter then I DO believe it is important. IF true, it would show how willing she is to brazenly lie for political expediency. We swarmed Hillary for her lie about her trip to Bosnia, so why isn't this just as important?

You make a VERY valid point that she is hopelessly underqualified for the job. In fact I agree with you that it should be the voters' primary concern about her. HOWEVER, do you have to be so goddamn abrasive about it by calling people "asshats?" Fucking A, dude.

I know we don't follow Robert's Rules of Order here, and that's great. But if I had replied with: "Don't be a dumb motherfucker, Joe. It shows that she's a liar and a hypocrite, you fucking asshat," would we be thoughtfully exchanging ideas? I mean come on.

I see I haven't been commenting enough lately.. =^(

>> ^kronosposeidon:
I know we don't follow Robert's Rules of Order here, and that's great. But if I had replied with: "Don't be a dumb motherfucker, Joe. It shows that she's a liar and a hypocrite, you fucking asshat," would we be thoughtfully exchanging ideas? I mean come on.


You didn't wait for joe to yield the floor, you dumb motherfucker.

^I know.

I still love you bastards, even if you all hate my ass. You incorrigible pricks.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
>> ^Trancecoach:
There's rumor that Trig (the baby with Down Syndrome) is Palin's daughter's daughter, and not her own.
...
...[The daughter] simultaneously spent 7 months recuperating and caring for her gestating mother.
Does sound a little suspicious, but I'm not aware of any other evidence beyond what I just stated.

Well, There are also photos rather late in the pregnancy (7 months, I think) showing Sarah with no obvious pregnancy signs, and some family photos from earlier (5 months maybe?) where the daughter is *maybe* showing a bit of a bump. I wasn't convinced by these, though a 40+ woman on her fifth pregnancy at 7 months *not* very obviously showing seems a bit unlikely.

Somewhat more interesting to me were the circumstances of the birth. Mrs. Palin went into labor (possibly early stage) while at a convention of some sort and she was due to give a keynote speech. She decided to go ahead with it, then afterwards fly home (from Texas - 8+ hours I think) and drive another 45 minutes or so to get to her small town hospital. While a month early with a Downs baby at age 43(?). Assuming the rumor is false (I'm undecided) I feel this demonstrates serious negligence on the governor's part - she had to know that there was a not insignificant risk involved.

I have no desire to see Sarah Palin's daughter used for any sort of political advantage, or really to know much about her at all - it's none of my business. I'm a bit loathe to even submit this comment in case the whole thing is complete BS, but anything which would show a significant deficiency in a potential US President's judgment on important matters *is* my business. I'd like to hear at least some sort of response to the allegation - to explain the seemingly risky travel, if nothing else.

If Sarah really wanted to quash this rumor, all she would have to do is produce a photo of her in the hospital in bed, holding a newborn.

^ Sarah Palin didn't announce her pregnancy to the state until her fifth month. I never once saw a picture of her [in any Alaskan newspaper or elsewhere] where she looked remotely pregnant. The papers all said she waited to announce it so no one would suggest she step aside earlier.

As for the flight while she was in labor, the flight from DFW to Anchorage is 8 hours minimum, and that's without a stop to refuel in Seattle. I'd like to see her speech when she was in labor - I'm sure that would be pretty telling. A keynote speaker is bound to have a fairly lengthy speech. If she got through her speech without a contraction, I'd be impressed. I remember at the time being irritated that she had gone through with the flight - especially after having popped out four kids, she wouldn't have been in labor for long. And you would think flying could cause serious complications, particularly if the baby were to be born halfway between Seattle and Anchorage, which would be extremely likely. [Even for a new mother, the average labor time is 8-14 hours. It only decreases the more children you have.]

I never thought twice about it before. The more I think about it now, the more it seems possible. Then again, I don't care enough to worry about it.

Clearly Bush's 8 years of Abstinence Only programs clearly have failed.

McCain campaign supposedly says they did know about this, however vetters for the campaign are only now going to Alaska.

This is so ironic though.

You think everybody should be executed. What are you, a Texas governor?

>> ^gorillaman:
Sarah Palin is a disgusting bitch who should be executed for her criminal positions on abortion, gay marriage and drugs. Guess how much I don't give a shit about her parental competence.

I just want to see Sarah Palin's priorities if the baby is born on November 4th, while Grandma is standing in line waiting to vote.

She wasn't going to vote anyway. She was going to let the voting machine take care of it for her.

I think it's more indicative of the methods McCain will stoop to (and of course the paranoia he demonstrates believing others will stoop to his level) that they have already gone in to damage control over something Obama has elected to ignore entirely.

ps. Have I mentioned lately just how much I hate f#cking politics.

A lot of good those abstinence only programs (of which Palin ardently supports) did her daughter. Irony how do I love the.

Wait, wait, KP, source please. The daughter was pulled from school to help her pregnant mum? I thought that only happened in... Baluchistan. That's an even bigger story than the whole pregnancy thing.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
>> ^

When Sarah Palin was pregnant with Trig, she pulled her daughter (the same one who is pregnant now) out of school for 7 months so that she could "care for" her pregnant mom. The daughter also allegedly had mononucleosis during that time, so she simultaneously spent 7 months recuperating and caring for her gestating mother.
Does sound a little suspicious, but I'm not aware of any other evidence beyond what I just stated.

Well, maybe Palin is a bit of a hypocrite because: 1) she says she is proud to become a grandparent, 2) she announced the pregnancy at this very moment to quell rumours about herself, 3) it is not unthinkable that pressure was put on the youngsters to marry in order to avoid a bigger political scandal, 4) there must have been at least a little bit of pressure on the daughter not to have an abortion (in that sense the children are already dragged into the political story), but most of all 5) Sarah Palin pushes a type of sex education that clearly did not work in her own family.

My biggest problem is that Palin’s politics create enormous problems for the majority of the pregnant teenagers whose parents do not have the willingness and/or the financial means to support the young family, make the young parents able to finish their education &c.

This all smells like a GOP troll. Remember the fake letter that the white house circulated that pointed to bush's neglect of his military service? They probably formulated that, they spread it, and then they disproved it, and people stopped looking into W's neglected military responsibilities, it was PR genius.

I smell that here. Was Palin criminally negligent with getting on the plane while in labor? Does Bristol's unplanned pregnancy illustrate the failure of abstinence only? We can stop asking this question as soon as they "disprove" the anonymous (planted?) libel about trig being Bristol's child.

So..., She's preggos, Who cares!

I sure don't, it's human nature, circle of life and all that stuff. It may not not meet with certain people's religion, but get over it. Not everyone subscribes to that religion. A separation of church and state and all that...

Man, people, I'm sorry but, 'get a life'.

I'd like to know, too. I hadn't heard that part before, but it sounds highly suspicious. It's awfully hard to be someone's caretaker when you're sleeping 20 hours a day.

>> ^Octopussy:
Wait, wait, KP, source please. The daughter was pulled from school to help her pregnant mum? I thought that only happened in... Baluchistan. That's an even bigger story than the whole pregnancy thing.
>> ^kronosposeidon:

When Sarah Palin was pregnant with Trig, she pulled her daughter (the same one who is pregnant now) out of school for 7 months so that she could "care for" her pregnant mom. The daughter also allegedly had mononucleosis during that time, so she simultaneously spent 7 months recuperating and caring for her gestating mother.
Does sound a little suspicious, but I'm not aware of any other evidence beyond what I just stated.

Pregnant by design, not her fault, she may have beeen droinkentz...

what i s real, anyhow...?
\Quoting the first line from the first hit, on the first search.."palin husband" on Google, from some slanted, pathetically composed with a view to bassshin' a mother a five who lives in Alaska, an happens to be the pick for McCain's fast-track to whatever, and no-doubt an approved-by-the-strong female that allowed it to be published as her words, "In the prepared statement Monday, Sarah and Todd Palin said: "Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents."

Ms. Palin had told Mr. McCain's team about the pregnancy and her husband's old DUI during lengthy discussions about her background, aides said. "

And so and again and again and again, Ad infinitum, asshats that deal in spin and news, will do anything the power structure says to do, with the flaccid skills they have available to them, to get the job, whatever that is, done.....make you cast yer vote a certain way based upon visceral reactions to personal inclinations....In oyher words, dealing the folks who like McCain in the Jesus and Mary Traditional Family Values, etc.camp, a card form the bottom-dwelling recesses of the deck

Read the articles on this story from whatever source, and see the pattern......Politico De Usual, using patsies to ru the game down to the other patsies.....YOU!

Vote for the person who can do it all, for if nobody can stop the runaway freight train of bullshit inthe media, nobody can solve the real problems we face as a world, nobody can make you miraculously think al will be well if you simply, Hope" or "Change" the president, as one would change one's undergarment after a swim in their own fluids in the hopital bed when the nurse call button is broken....The Choice is clear....Nobody For President!!!
http://www.nobodyforpresident.org/
http://www.wavygravy.net/bio/biography.html

"If a majority of people voted for "None of the Above" rather than, "the lesser of evils," it might force a situation where Voters would have to find someone competent to lead them."
-Curtis Spangler

Fat chance, poster-boy, these monkeys is DUPED!!!!

How much y'all wanna bet that Bristol will have a miscarriage in the coming weeks? No need for marriage and Momma Veep gets a shit load of pity heaped on her and all the rumors go away.

IMHO the reality in that family is this. Trig is Bristol's and to save face they said it was Sarah's, and to silence the rumors that were hitting too close to home they come out with Bristol being pregnant, and far enough along to not be Trig's momma.

Turn, now, to politics. Consider, for example, a campaign for the Presidency. Would it be possible to imagine anything more uproariously idiotic - a deafening, nerve-wracking battle to the death between Tweedledum and Tweedledee, Harlequin and Sganarelle, Gobbo and Dr. Cook - the unspeakable, with fearful snorts, gradually swallowing the inconceivable? I defy any one to match it elsewhere on this earth. In other lands, at worst, there are at least intelligible issues, coherent ideas, salient personalities. Somebody says something, and somebody replies. But what did Harding say in 1920, and what did Cox reply? Who was Harding, anyhow, and who was Cox? Here, having perfected democracy, we lift the whole combat to symbolism, to transcendentalism, to metaphysics. Here we load a pair of palpably tin cannon with blank cartridges charged with talcum power, and so let fly. Here one may howl over the show without any uneasy reminder that it is serious, and that some one may be hurt. I hold that this elevation of politics to the plane of undiluted comedy is peculiarly American, that no-where else on this disreputable ball has the art of the sham-battle been developed to such fineness...

>> ^Octopussy:
btw, what is the age of consent in Alaska?

16

[edit]I guess I should have finished reading the thread before answering that one. Sorry for being redundant... think of this comment as a hot spare.

*politics

Adding video to channels (Politics) - requested by NetRunner.

Her unmarried teenage daughter is pregnant? What a horrible person this must be. I hear she also buys foreign cars.

^
Yeah, well I heard she once ATE a baby.
..
...
Or maybe that was Fat Bastard. I forget these things some times.


On topic,
Even Obama says he is disgusted by people's use of her daughter's pregnancy as a political statement.

Also, the story of Trig is laid to rest. The baby is her's. There was never any doubt. All the media has recognized this and many have reported it. The story is over. If you want to debate the ethics of having children at her age however, knock yourselves out, but recognize that millions do it so you may just be judging your friends/neighbors/relatives at the same time.

*dead

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