Verizon: " .002 dollars = .002 cents"


Apart from the sheer stupidity of the supervisor (and the employee(s) who handled the previous 45 minutes of the call before recording started), the is an awesome display of patience and good humour on part of the caller.


just for those that see it as confusing:

if he used 35893kb, and they charge 0.002 cents then it would be 35893 x 0.002 cents = 71.786 cents. you don't change the increment in which things are being counted after the equals.
what they charged him, 71.79 dollars, would be represented by 35893 x 0.002 dollars = 71.786 dollars.

.002 dollars = $0.002
.002 cents = $0.00002

edit: found this in the blog, and it really explains it perfectly.


pho3n1x- that's sweet of you to explain (and the google link is priceless - good thinking!), but anyone who still needs this explained should probably get off of their computer before they electrocute themselves and go work for Verizon

I think that this recording could go a long way - I'm actually more exasperated by it than I was by the AOL cancellation bit ...


For all those people who think GCSE/High School Math is pointless, this video demonstrates why you are taught all that stuff.

Hence it's why you're taught stuff like algebra. The more math you do, the more you remember basic concepts.

For a group of call center employee's not to differentiate between two units is just sad.


Playing the "guess which video is going on the top 15" parlour game, this is an easy pick. I'm shocked by Verizon, but at the same time, the caller could've made the explanation a little more obvious.

Like saying .002 cents equals .00002 dollars. If you want the three minute remix, it's here.

I visited George's blog and found out that as of today, Verizon has, sort of, admitted their wrong and are finally giving him a 100% refund (as opposed to the 50% refund they were offering yesterday!).

I don't add much more additional commentary on ACS, but who doesn't love shamelss self-promotion?


My head nearly exploded. Not so much out of surprise that the misunderstanding happened in the first place, but that he failed to convince 3 separate people that a dollar is different than a cent. Especially when the woman at the end referred to it as "a difference of opinion".


@dag: it sounds like we've both worked customer service, so I'll agree with the basic principle of what you're saying (that some {bitchy} customers can make you lose sight of what you're even talking about because you're concentrating on appeasing / calming / getting rid of them). However - I disagree that the basic problem here (cents <>== dollars) was even really "math"! It should've been easy to grasp by a fifth grader off of his Ritalin.


This is a great case of how confused we are. Honestly I got confused, too, thinking that 0.002 cents equal only two hundreth of a cent, but that came from HEARING the nummber. When I SAW it, I realised it's two thousandth of a cent LOL! Thanks maudlin, for posting this video!!!


Wow. 3 different people and a few reps before that. I didn't think I could sit through the whole thing. More painful than a root canal. I kept waiting for someone to get it.

I am *very* impressed with the callers patience. He's a freakin super-hero.

....and I would love to hear Verizon's response.


i liked 16min in where the manager is arguing there is no such thing as 0.002 dollars and furthermore that he WAS billed at the .002 cents he is now asking to be billed at.

i think all he needed to do was explain how conversion from cents to dollars requires a extra step if multiplication, and then go into what that step would take. he keeps calling it a 'terminology issue' but its really just the conversion thats hanging people up.


This guy had it easy; at least they're admitting they're wrong, and just stupid.

This is what disputes are like with Verizon every time. I know; I've been through exactly this (different dispute) for over a month at 20+ hours of support calls. They hire morons who either don't understand what you're saying, tell you you're wrong when you're not, and things that don't help, and then pass you back into the queue for someone else to handle. My highest number of pass-offs was 16 in one call.

Advice: don't give up, keep fighting, even as you watch your sanity slip away. If you are battling about restoring a service, pray - a lot. Call headquarters directly and they'll put you through to the district manager level of personnel, where you'll hopefully find someone with more than seven brain cells.

After hearing this, I wish I'd recorded my battle with them. I'd vote for this 100 times if I could. Verizon needs to stop hiring idiots.


He didnt explain it well enough.

He should of said this:

"How do you write down 1 dollar?"
"Umm... 1.00?"
"yes. Now how would you write down .002 dollars?"
"Umm .002?"
"yep. Now how do you write 1 cent?"
"yea. Now how do you write .002 cents?"
"No, you just said thats how you write .002 dollars."
"Oh... .00002?"
"there you go. Now multiply that by my kb"

Thats all he had to do. He made it WAY to confusing.


Who on god's sweet earth labelled this "comedy"???? This is totally and utterlly pain and suffering. I almost clawed my eyes out in fustration, and I was just listening to it.....

I think I would have put the phone down and screamed for a bit.

It isn't really a math problem, it is a units problem, and that is difficult for a lot of people to understand, though they should have done it in high school physics.


q[Thats all he had to do. He made it WAY to confusing. ]q

Well, I dont even use dollars, still he explained it crystal clear in ATLEAST 10 different, equally good ways, and I find your explanation slighty more confusing, even if thats pretty clear too, I really doubt they would have understood it anyway.

Just listen to the last one again:

-Do you recognize theres a difference between 1 dollar and 1 cent?
-Of course(Thinking to herself: are you stupid??)
-Do you recognize theres a difference between half a dollar and half a cent?
-Obviously(Thinking to herself: trying to mock me??)
-Do you recognize theres a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents?

I'd also like to remind you all of a quote Al Gore used in An Inconvenient Truth:

"Its hard to get people to understand something, when their salary depends on them not understanding it."


I can see why this happened to the poor guy but he was starting to over-elaborate on the explanations. But god, that last woman took the biscuit. I hope she doesn't have kids.

The way I would explain it is to avoid ALL reference to how many hundredths or thousandths there are - that's confusing terminology for anyone, we don't think like that and these Verizon dimwits won't even stand a chance.

I would say to them (and make them write these examples down);

1 cent x 35893 = 35893 cents
0.5 cents x 35893 = 17946.5 cents

0.002 cents x 35893 = 71.78 cents

That is less than a dollar. However you billed me 71 dollars. Go fetch.

Again at NO point mention fractions, explain that 0.002 cents is a thousandth of 2 cents or anything like that. It's logical but hell even I'm getting confused. He should have just kept the discussion entirely in cents and only mention dollars when referring to his bill.

Easy for me to say of course, I would have slit my own throat after 15 minutes.


Ok, I had this figured out in the first 30 seconds. It's not that difficut. I'm amazed that he stayed so paitent for the whole thing I would have been using all sorts of profanities and loud talking.


She fully admits she doesn't know simple math from her own asshole only to still insist that "our" math is right and yours is not because Mr.Calculator(sponsored by Verizon's training or lack thereof) says so. Apparently she thinks calculators are like these self-aware/self-correcting supercomputers given to us from baby Jesus who run on their own? The difference of opinion thingy was just grand.


This published video has been declared as non-functional; embed code must fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by eric3579.


*downvote as this isn't AudioSift

+my forehead is sore from the slapping.

*upvote because it's good.

You got me complexed on my principles with this one.


Wow, I can’t even fathom how this kind a deficiency in simple math is possible…we’re talking about simple unit conversion here.

I can say one thing though, just hearing the first few minutes of the convo it was clearly apparent that he was going about the explanation in the worst way possible. Mixing decimals and fractions in the way he did would take an understanding of decimals/fractions/conversions as well as some thought for anyone. Having a clear understanding of unit conversion he made the terrible assumption that this was simple knowledge, and went about explaining it in a confusing way for someone who just has no concept of converting units or fractions/decimals.

Here’s his main blunder: He though that he could somehow teach these people that which decades of the US Education system could not…God were you wrong.

I would have instantly opened up Google and told them to type in .002 cents times 35893. I would have also told them to type in .002 dollars to cents, or .002 cents to dollars to make sure that we understood that .002 cents and .002 dollars are not the same.

At this point it’s apparent that they are clearly to blame for the misunderstanding, if this was still a problem, only then would I venture into actually doing some simple calculations …If I did though Id make it clear that we were staying in the unit of cents do some simple calculations and then end with the kb x cents…but to be truthfully honest I know that no matter what I did, once attempting to teach them math I would just end up in the same situation he did… Tell you one thing though: I would not have given in to that bullshit, at the end I would curse someone out and demand to speak to someone who has at least a fucking 9th grade comprehension of math. The fact was simple, they were dead wrong and he was right, in no way was he responsible for paying that bill.

He really should have used some internet program for conversions, you need something indisputable to convince people this dim witted…or you’re just going to wind up with “matter of opinion…” lol WTF mates?


This is the result of the US education system.
Switch to metric, you wont have this issue.
Fractions and imperial measurements rarely deal with the decimal system...hilarious.

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