*promote the Department of Homeland Security Bureaucracy keeping us safe.

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Sunday, November 28th, 2010 1:46pm PST - promote requested by original submitter blankfist.

*Lawless asswipes think they are special.

Adding video to channels (Law) - requested by Zonbie.

Oh, they both get paid vacations? JUSTIIIIIIICE!

He felt "threatened", never heard a cop use that excuse before...

This is the shit that happens when people in authority risk very little in the way of consequences for their actions, and are held to such low standards of professionalism. A doctor can make a mistake on a difficult diagnosis and have the crap sued out of them, but a cop can blow a hole through an unarmed person and claim they felt threatened and get nothing but paid leave while internal investigations figures out a way to spin the cop as innocent.

Internal investigation and rehab...great justice. Just a few more years before we are on par with putting Jesus and Socrates to death.

"We enforce the law, we don't break the law."

Not much, anyway.

I like where they pay with a credit card but refuse to let them read their plates...she even gets out of the van and raises it back up to keep them from reading it. It's almost like they've been busted via their license plate before and that's all they can consider in their drunken state. Says a lot about the type of people they have policing the air ways, single minded to a fault and very little regard for the law or others in general.

>> ^Crosswords:
He felt "threatened", never heard a cop use that excuse before...
This is the shit that happens when people in authority risk very little in the way of consequences for their actions, and are held to such low standards of professionalism. A doctor can make a mistake on a difficult diagnosis and have the crap sued out of them, but a cop can blow a hole through an unarmed person and claim they felt threatened and get nothing but paid leave while internal investigations figures out a way to spin the cop as innocent.


Haha! So true. A doctor's insurance is sued right off the bat for malpractice! Show that doctor, I mean insurance who is boss!


Oh, and let it be known that a drug lord can blow a hole through an unarmed person, and if he gets away with it, he wont be punished! You could too! And everyone! How sick is that...

But back in sane-land; it depends where you are and how cops are held accountable. If the Sheriff is held accountable by the voters, and the Mayors who assign police chiefs, then the cops are held to the fire every time a fart is blown. If you are in an area of lazy voters who do not care and make the brass immune, then nobody cares...

So, who do we blame for this? ah yes, the voters.

I hope if they try to use alcohol as a mitigating factor, they are charged with DUI too.

If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.

Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.

Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?

Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

>> ^lantern53:

If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.


Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.

You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.

And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.

Too
Stupid for
Arby's

Teaching
Submission to
Americans

Terrorist
Supporting
Agency

Terrible
Senseless
Antics

Thoroughly
Screwing
America

Thoughtless
Slobs
Abound

Typical
State
Activity

To
Screw
Anyone

Treatment
So
Asinine

Taxpayer
Supported
Assault

>> ^Matthu:

>> ^lantern53:
If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.
You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.
And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.


I was staying out of this until I saw this comment.

Your logic is flawed.

There are ~800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S., you get to see one bad cop in a video every once in a while. Let's say 250 of these videos come out a year, that still leaves 799750 cops that didn't make it to youtube for doing something stupid.

It's hilarious how you call the handful of us defending police officers clones because we aren't judging them all because of a handfull of idiots. And you can try to deny it all you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.

Yes, there are idiots, and yes, those idiots don't deserve to be on the force, but that doesn't justify hating everyone who wears a badge. In my entire lifespan with my dad being a cop, I've only ever known -one- "bad" cop, and the reason he was a "bad" cop was because he commit credit card fraud. All other interactions I've ever had have been more than pleasant, including the one who pulled me over because I was driving without headlights on. She found out I was driving without a license, and because I was actually polite about it and not an ass, she let me go on the grounds that I had someone come and pick me up.

Open YOUR eyes, what interactions, if ANY, have you ever had with a cop other then watching them on youtube? I'm all ears.

Open YOUR eyes. It's way more fun to go against authority then to be on its side...what a silly goose >> ^Shepppard:

>> ^Matthu:
>> ^lantern53:
If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.
You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.
And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.

I was staying out of this until I saw this comment.
Your logic is flawed.
There are ~800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S., you get to see one bad cop in a video every once in a while. Let's say 250 of these videos come out a year, that still leaves 799750 cops that didn't make it to youtube for doing something stupid.
It's hilarious how you call the handful of us defending police officers clones because we aren't judging them all because of a handfull of idiots. And you can try to deny it all you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.
Yes, there are idiots, and yes, those idiots don't deserve to be on the force, but that doesn't justify hating everyone who wears a badge. In my entire lifespan with my dad being a cop, I've only ever known -one- "bad" cop, and the reason he was a "bad" cop was because he commit credit card fraud. All other interactions I've ever had have been more than pleasant, including the one who pulled me over because I was driving without headlights on. She found out I was driving without a license, and because I was actually polite about it and not an ass, she let me go on the grounds that I had someone come and pick me up.
Open YOUR eyes, what interactions, if ANY, have you ever had with a cop other then watching them on youtube? I'm all ears.

Bizarre.

their agencies are launching a thorough investigation - and in NO WAY is that a conflict of interest.

The world view of some of you here is completely impenetrable. If the police go and arrest these two, it proves your world view by confirming the 'conflict of interest'. If the police do not go out and arrest these two, it STILL proves your world view.

The next time someone that has the same job as you is convicted for murder apply the same logic. Whether you condemn them or support them, it all just proves everyone with that job is the same...

@bcglorf, I'm not sure you completely understand what a conflict of interest means in terms of law. It has everything to do with impartiality.

If you sued me for stealing your TV, and the judge was a cousin of mine that would be a conflict of interest. If I was a cop and stole your TV, and the investigating party was my boss that would also be a conflict of interest.

@Shepppard I don't hate anyone who wears a badge, I have a great amount of disdain for the system which trains cop to manipulate citizens out of whatever rights they deem a hindrance to them discovering crimes.

I have a grandmother with Alzheimers, she wanders occasionally. My mom, foolishly, called the police on one such occasion. I found my grandmother snd brought her home, the cops show up again after she's home and want to see her. They asked if they could come in, I chuckled a bit because I thought it was presumptuous of them to come inside my home, being the strangers that they are. I tell them no, they can't, but I'll go get grandma if you'd like to speak to her.

Then I try and close my door only to realize this cop put his boots on my door frame making me unable to close my door, it was a bit of a mindfuck tbh, as I was nervous, I was just like, wtf door won't close. I guess I was too intimidated to push the issue far enough to ask the cop to remove his boot. So whatever, I go get my grandmother and when I return they're right inside my house, imposing and uninvited. Probably having used some "door is ajar" rule letting them enter. What a joke.

So whatever they talk to my grandmother, all is well. I couldn't shut my mouth though, I had to ask don't I have the right to refuse you to enter my house? And they said, yes you do but it usually means you have something to hide(the, like, 25 y/o chick cop tells me). Which is bullshit. Exercising your rights doesn't mean you have something to hide, it means you know your rights, appreciate them and wish to make use of them.

This anecdotal evidence is worthless, though, in the grand scheme of things. The videos speak much louder. Using your figure of 250 videos a year, how many abusive interactions with police officers go unrecorded? Given how strongly opposed the police are to being recorded, probably a lot more. Why are they fighting the right to record them? What do they have to hide?

I worked as a drug deliveryman for about a year, good times, at least back then when my interactions with police were adversarial, it was justified. Funny thing, never had any problems with police while driving on the street with a dashboard full of weed. Was stopped multiple times, was fun/intense. Had to keep my cool and jump through their hoops.

As for your story of being let go while driving without a license, pretty surprising, was this in a big city or small town? Also, it's not the best example because honestly, you should've been given a ticket at the minimum. Normally, they tow your car and impound for 30 days which is pretty expensive. Letting someone come take the car is really nice of a cop, but I wouldn't have a problem taking a ticket for driving w/o a license. That's never been my problem, I've always been respectful of cops when stopped for a traffic violation where I'm actually in the wrong.

Anyhow, tl;dr cops aren't serving the citizenry, they're serving the government who's orders are to control the citizenry by any means necessary.

This is a long post, but I wanted to add that the lack of accountability for a cops actions are just disgusting. Cops have murdered citizens with barely a slap on the wrist.

blankfist
bcglorf, I'm not sure you completely understand what a conflict of interest means in terms of law. It has everything to do with impartiality.
If you sued me for stealing your TV, and the judge was a cousin of mine that would be a conflict of interest. If I was a cop and stole your TV, and the investigating party was my boss that would also be a conflict of interest.

I suspect you aren't understanding me. An individual police officer committed a crime. The police force only has two options:
1.Investigate the crime.
2.Don't investigate the crime.

I am observing that there is a crowd on here that responds as follows:
1.Condemn the police for investigating(conflict of interest).
2.Condemn the police for not investigating(double standard).

When an individual police officer commits a crime, there is NOTHING the police force as a whole can do that doesn't confirm and further implicate them in some people's eyes.

i've got several. but this is the one i will share with you, because it disgusts me the most.

I worked the night shift, performing CT scans on patients out of the ER. A stab wound comes in, escorted by the police. While I'm working on the dude, the officer decides to tell me the HILARIOUS story of how this man got stabbed. He was beating his wife. severely. his 17 year old son with down's syndrome had enough and pulled out a steak knife, defended his mother and stabbed his dad. Then, he went up to his room and slit his own wrists. The jerk cop thought the image of a 17 year old with downs, stabbing his abusive father and then attempting suicide was HILARIOUS. he was doubled over laughing and calling the kid "corky" (and explained to me it's because they can't say "retard" over their radios). and impersonating him with his best "retard" voice and mannerisms.

Is this every cop? certainly, not.

I also dated a victim's assistance cop out of curiosity. I thought being a victim's rights advocate would make him more interesting. But I found out it only made him desensitized to some horrific things. Like, being in the medical field, i'm desensitized to blood, and poop, and vomit, and old people dying, body parts and stuff. it gives me a pretty raunchy sense of humor that probably makes some people uncomfortable.
but i never ever ever want to become desensitized to things like child rape.

I think that's the core of why people "don't like" a lot of cops. The job necessitates the abandonment of some socially appropriate emotions, thoughts and feelings. being raised by a cop, you are probably totally used to the attitude that many cops seem imbued with. being raised by hypersenstive people with mood disorders, burnt out hippies, trans gendered people and teenage drug addicts, i'm not used to the kind of world view one must have to be a cop. and i don't like it.

so yes, i've met cops who seem very awesome. i work out with a juvenile probation officer who i think is an amazing person. i don't think every cop is a socially inept dickbag. but i have certainly had more negative experiences with cops than positive ones. but i think it's for the most part, a world view issue. because i don't think MOST cops are abusive or anything.

though, i do think our criminal justice system is fucking broken and has fascist tendencies, i realize that's not the fault of anyone individual cop.

>> ^Shepppard:

>> ^Matthu:
>> ^lantern53:
If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.
You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.
And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.

I was staying out of this until I saw this comment.
Your logic is flawed.
There are ~800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S., you get to see one bad cop in a video every once in a while. Let's say 250 of these videos come out a year, that still leaves 799750 cops that didn't make it to youtube for doing something stupid.
It's hilarious how you call the handful of us defending police officers clones because we aren't judging them all because of a handfull of idiots. And you can try to deny it all you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.
Yes, there are idiots, and yes, those idiots don't deserve to be on the force, but that doesn't justify hating everyone who wears a badge. In my entire lifespan with my dad being a cop, I've only ever known -one- "bad" cop, and the reason he was a "bad" cop was because he commit credit card fraud. All other interactions I've ever had have been more than pleasant, including the one who pulled me over because I was driving without headlights on. She found out I was driving without a license, and because I was actually polite about it and not an ass, she let me go on the grounds that I had someone come and pick me up.
Open YOUR eyes, what interactions, if ANY, have you ever had with a cop other then watching them on youtube? I'm all ears.

>> ^bcglorf:

blankfist
bcglorf, I'm not sure you completely understand what a conflict of interest means in terms of law. It has everything to do with impartiality.
If you sued me for stealing your TV, and the judge was a cousin of mine that would be a conflict of interest. If I was a cop and stole your TV, and the investigating party was my boss that would also be a conflict of interest.
I suspect you aren't understanding me. An individual police officer committed a crime. The police force only has two options:
1.Investigate the crime.
2.Don't investigate the crime.
I am observing that there is a crowd on here that responds as follows:
1.Condemn the police for investigating(conflict of interest).
2.Condemn the police for not investigating(double standard).
When an individual police officer commits a crime, there is NOTHING the police force as a whole can do that doesn't confirm and further implicate them in some people's eyes.


Uh, yes there is... They can hand over the investigation to an impartial 3rd party who doesn't have a conflict of interest.

>> ^Matthu:

>> ^bcglorf:
blankfist
bcglorf, I'm not sure you completely understand what a conflict of interest means in terms of law. It has everything to do with impartiality.
If you sued me for stealing your TV, and the judge was a cousin of mine that would be a conflict of interest. If I was a cop and stole your TV, and the investigating party was my boss that would also be a conflict of interest.
I suspect you aren't understanding me. An individual police officer committed a crime. The police force only has two options:
1.Investigate the crime.
2.Don't investigate the crime.
I am observing that there is a crowd on here that responds as follows:
1.Condemn the police for investigating(conflict of interest).
2.Condemn the police for not investigating(double standard).
When an individual police officer commits a crime, there is NOTHING the police force as a whole can do that doesn't confirm and further implicate them in some people's eyes.

Uh, yes there is... They can hand over the investigation to an impartial 3rd party who doesn't have a conflict of interest.


Wouldn't it be great if the police force planned for that kind of requirement and had a specific department specifically for that purpose. They could call it something catchy like the Department of Internal Affairs....

>> ^bcglorf:

Wouldn't it be great if the police force planned for that kind of requirement and had a specific department specifically for that purpose. They could call it something catchy like the Department of Internal Affairs....
<div><div style="margin: 10px; overflow: auto; width: 80%; float: left; position: relative;" class="convoPiece"> Matthu said:<img style="margin: 4px 10px 10px; float: left; width: 40px;" src="http://static1.videosift.com/avatars/m/Matthu-s.jpg" onerror="ph(this)"><div style="position: absolute; margin-left: 52px; padding-top: 1px; font-size: 10px;" class="commentarrow">◄</div><div style="padding: 8px; margin-left: 60px; margin-top: 2px; min-height: 30px;" class="nestedComment box"> Uh, yes there is... They can hand over the investigation to an impartial 3rd party who doesn't have a conflict of interest.
</div></div></div>
<div><div style="margin: 10px; overflow: auto; width: 80%; float: right; position: relative;" class="convoPiece"> bcglorf said:<img style="margin: 4px 10px 10px; float: right; width: 40px;" src="http://static1.videosift.com/avatars/b/bcglorf-s.jpg" onerror="ph(this)"><div style="position: absolute; margin-top: 1px; right: 52px; font-size: 10px;" class="commentarrow">►</div><div style="padding: 8px; margin-right: 60px; margin-top: 2px; min-height: 30px;" class="nestedComment box">blankfist
bcglorf, I'm not sure you completely understand what a conflict of interest means in terms of law. It has everything to do with impartiality.
If you sued me for stealing your TV, and the judge was a cousin of mine that would be a conflict of interest. If I was a cop and stole your TV, and the investigating party was my boss that would also be a conflict of interest.
I suspect you aren't understanding me. An individual police officer committed a crime. The police force only has two options:
1.Investigate the crime.
2.Don't investigate the crime.
I am observing that there is a crowd on here that responds as follows:
1.Condemn the police for investigating(conflict of interest).
2.Condemn the police for not investigating(double standard).
When an individual police officer commits a crime, there is NOTHING the police force as a whole can do that doesn't confirm and further implicate them in some people's eyes.
</div></div></div>

Ya man, that'd be awesome. Friggin' hell, videosifters should be running things. If they were, the world would be awesome.

Also, "This Department of Internal Affairs" should be made up entirely of cops and retired cops. I mean, obviously, they're the only ones who can judge crimes committed by police officers. Obviously regular humans are incapable of the empathy these angels of justice require.

>> ^bcglorf:
I suspect you aren't understanding me. An individual police officer committed a crime. The police force only has two options:
1.Investigate the crime.
2.Don't investigate the crime.
I am observing that there is a crowd on here that responds as follows:
1.Condemn the police for investigating(conflict of interest).
2.Condemn the police for not investigating(double standard).
When an individual police officer commits a crime, there is NOTHING the police force as a whole can do that doesn't confirm and further implicate them in some people's eyes.


That's an apologist answer and a straw man argument. It's not about them not investigating, it's about mitigating liability and damages through their political influence. That's why these two officers are facing misdemeanor charges instead of felony charges, which is exactly what you or I would face if we did the exact same thing.

I'd like for you to read the Christopher Commission's investigation of the mores and culture of the LAPD after Rampart and Rodney King. It's eye opening. That is if you can find it online.

Oh, and I think you're confused about the Internal Affairs Group. First that pertains to state and city police. I'm not sure if the TSA has an IAG, but the second cop seemed to be working for an airport police department so maybe he does. It's hard to keep the bureaucratic morass straight. Even if they did, the IAG for local police is under the purview of the police commission, and the people who make up the IAG are police officers who cycle in and out of the precincts, so there's an obvious conflict of interest there.

@peggedbea

Madam, That was actually a very well stated post, my hat's off to you.

I'll agree (and was actually thinking of this before reading it in your post) that perhaps I have been de-sensitized to the fact that these people have lost a certain set of emotion. Nothing can really phase my dad or stepmom just because after years they have had to pull back and keep a certain mindset, otherwise they'd never be able to do what they do.

The life is actually a little sad, not many people realize it but cops can only ever really socialize with other cops because of this effect. Now, there's a few that still retain themselves and those people excell at public speaking and whatnot.. but a vast majority of them are only really able to connect with other people in the same situation (Ambulance drivers, doctors, etc.)

Not to mention that the instant you put on a badge, you're always the party joke as it is. People laugh and joke about how "Oh, better not break the law or (x)'ll take you away!" at parties and people act awkwardly around them just because they know the person is a cop.

Cops sacrifice a lot more then people know.. That's generally why I'm first in line to stand out and defend those who deserve it.

"I felt threatened... and hungry."

@Shepppard

Yes there's some distancing from police, I have a cousin whose husband is a cop. He gave me a bad vibe for awhile, couldn't put my finger on it. Then one christmas get together I saw him talking about how cops can take down people easily by controlling the arm behind the back...and talking about how he could do it to anyone there no problem. So an uncle whose a short guy but strong as hell said I doubt it. So the cop tried, failed, made an excuse that he didn't want to hurt him...so the uncle said let's go outside and you can try all you like. That is teenage showoff kind of mentality, and that is not someone you want handling a gun and in charge of deciding what to do with you when they think they've got you on something. I'd guess his age to be late 20s maybe 30 at that time, uncle was probably late 40s or 50.

And a year or so after this, my brother got in trouble, fairly serious trouble. And the cousin's husband called up "to help him", gave him A LOT of bad advice under the guise of being family and wanting to help out. Told him to admit everything, didn't need a lawyer, the cops would take it easy on him...etc etc. An attempt to further his career as being "true blue" I guess. And that demonstrated his core character without any room for doubt left. If it had been his own son in that trouble, he would not have offered that advice...he'd have kept his mouth shut, got him a lawyer and went from there.

I can sympathize with cops who are there to actually protect people and put themselves in harms way to do so, but showboating, intention bad advice and attempted trickery, and no apparent loyalties or common decency is not someone who deserves respect as a human being. So they use the badge to demand respect....and that's where a lot of the trouble stems.....Im a cop so I should.......get free coffee.....get free donuts.....get free pizza........get a free pass......get the girl.......get money........get respect........get your undivided attention and obedience...... get my way.......

And my brother went on to develop a mental disorders and drug problems related to it. I've seen cops threaten him, ready to beat him down when he was not violent just mouthy and contrary. He got his arm and shoulder broken and damaged so badly while he was being held in jail for contempt of court (his mouthiness (mental disorder), not related to any charges) that he had to have a surgeon consult to see if it needed surgery to repair it. They withheld medications from him. Didn't bother to review tapes to catch the 5-8 guys who beat him down on his first day in with the population (they didn't hold him there due to his mental disorder, but all the sudden he was magically put in with the population). It took him pressing charges through a probation officer 2-3 weeks later to get any action rolling...and they still say he's responsible for paying all of the medical bills he incurred due to them placing him in with the people who beat his ass.

I can see why people hate anything to do with the justice system.....he had it bad and all he needed was someone to force medical treatment on him. Other people have had it worse, and no one steps up and takes on some personal responsibility to make sure people are not being abused....because it's not the way things are done. They are there to inflict maximum penalties on people through deception, subterfuge, and basically any way afforded to them. The only people who are not submitted to THIS system are rich, well lawyered citizens, powerful citizens, and close cop-relatives (parents, siblings, children).

>> ^Matthu:

Uh, yes there is... They can hand over the investigation to an impartial 3rd party who doesn't have a conflict of interest.


Sounds easy. A few questions though.

Who decides which 3rd party handles the investigation? The cops? The people making the accusation? This impartial 3rd party itself?

How is it funded? Does it get subpoena powers? Can it get warrants from judges? For that matter, can they investigate judges too? Politicians? Corporations? Your neighbors?

Are the police supposed to voluntarily comply with the recommendations? How does this help if all it can do is give toothless recommendations? Or is this supposed to be a compulsory thing? If it's compulsory, how do they compel the police? Do politicians grant them legal authority of some sort?

Is there any way for the officers to contest any of the findings? To appeal any of the decisions?

Who investigates the 3rd party if there are reports of corruption in how it operates? Can't be the police -- that'd be a conflict of interest. Do we need a 4th party to police the 3rd? A 5th to keep an eye on the 4th?

It may not be entirely true, but I was always under the impression that internal affairs was there to investigate misconduct and that the majority of the police force really was at arms length with people from internal affairs. Might just be TV/movies corrupting my view.

But there have also been cases where other districts will investigate sensitive matters to remove any chance of favoritism when involving members of a police force. I mean they have to trust someone at some point, so why not another police force?

Then if it's really serious, corruption, murder, etc...feds usually do the investigation or at least participate in the decisions being made.

And then when it comes to trial, they've been known to hold trials in other districts because the public outrage is too high in the district where it happened so they couldn't find an untainted jury pool.

I say as long as you have someone whose fairly impartial making the decisions that decide whether someone else should investigate or not..or trial should be held elsewhere for impartiality, etc....you're doing the best you can hope to do given the sheer amount of people involved. You can't possibly look into every person to look for possible ties and therefore possible influences to their bias.

The only issue is, we have a justice system that strives to the minimum in actually rehabilitating people. They go no further than what it takes to bring someone into court, hear a trial even if it's there's evidence that they should be considering being left out, make a verdict and let the person loose again.....when there's something clearly wrong that could be fixed NOW to prevent problems later. Medical holds for treatment, mandatory state funded counseling, etc. In fact in my state, most of these extra facilities have been shut down and the people being helped by them have been released into the wild to repeat the process all over again....except in the end it's jail or being let go to repeat it yet again.

If the system only options weren't confinement or restricted movement, they might find the population a happier bunch.....

>> ^NetRunner:

>> ^Matthu:
Uh, yes there is... They can hand over the investigation to an impartial 3rd party who doesn't have a conflict of interest.

Sounds easy. A few questions though.
Who decides which 3rd party handles the investigation? The cops? The people making the accusation? This impartial 3rd party itself?
How is it funded? Does it get subpoena powers? Can it get warrants from judges? For that matter, can they investigate judges too? Politicians? Corporations? Your neighbors?
Are the police supposed to voluntarily comply with the recommendations? How does this help if all it can do is give toothless recommendations? Or is this supposed to be a compulsory thing? If it's compulsory, how do they compel the police? Do politicians grant them legal authority of some sort?
Is there any way for the officers to contest any of the findings? To appeal any of the decisions?
Who investigates the 3rd party if there are reports of corruption in how it operates? Can't be the police -- that'd be a conflict of interest. Do we need a 4th party to police the 3rd? A 5th to keep an eye on the 4th?

So, point out the millions of videos of cops acting bad... What about the lazy citizens, criminal citizens and such who act worse? Is our nation's society, the system we all run by, or any other nation's system for that matter, broken?

The mother who sprays her child with a pressure washer? The crackhead who leaves her baby in a car, or let's her baby suffocate in the couch because she is passed out? WHY! Motherhood must be a flawed system! Or the robber who shoots the head off a bank teller? Why, open banks are flawed systems!

Please spare the hyperbole, cops are people who need weeded just like every other person--get rid of the bad where you can and keep the good where you can. The system has gotten better, but people could care less. Dash cams? Definately not for the cops because they tape the cops way more than the people... And more get fired than before too. You sound like a religious zealot who bashes atheists. And what have you done personally to change the system? Do you vote for or against Sheriffs who are elcected officals? Have you written to a mayor about abuse? No? Have you supported candidates who can effect change? No?

>> ^Matthu:
>> ^lantern53:
If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.
You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.
And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.

Maybe people laugh so they won't slit their own wrists? Kind of like how, in Iraq, I stood naked in a shower. Mortars flew in, and all I thought about was how cold it was, how my dick was shriveled, and how, this time, I was not going to lay down for safety.

The officer is one of two people. Someone who needs help---and badly. Just like an adict. Or someone who was always sick.

>> ^peggedbea:
i've got several. but this is the one i will share with you, because it disgusts me the most.
I worked the night shift, performing CT scans on patients out of the ER. A stab wound comes in, escorted by the police. While I'm working on the dude, the officer decides to tell me the HILARIOUS story of how this man got stabbed. He was beating his wife. severely. his 17 year old son with down's syndrome had enough and pulled out a steak knife, defended his mother and stabbed his dad. Then, he went up to his room and slit his own wrists. The jerk cop thought the image of a 17 year old with downs, stabbing his abusive father and then attempting suicide was HILARIOUS. he was doubled over laughing and calling the kid "corky" (and explained to me it's because they can't say "retard" over their radios). and impersonating him with his best "retard" voice and mannerisms.
Is this every cop? certainly, not.
I also dated a victim's assistance cop out of curiosity. I thought being a victim's rights advocate would make him more interesting. But I found out it only made him desensitized to some horrific things. Like, being in the medical field, i'm desensitized to blood, and poop, and vomit, and old people dying, body parts and stuff. it gives me a pretty raunchy sense of humor that probably makes some people uncomfortable.
but i never ever ever want to become desensitized to things like child rape.
I think that's the core of why people "don't like" a lot of cops. The job necessitates the abandonment of some socially appropriate emotions, thoughts and feelings. being raised by a cop, you are probably totally used to the attitude that many cops seem imbued with. being raised by hypersenstive people with mood disorders, burnt out hippies, trans gendered people and teenage drug addicts, i'm not used to the kind of world view one must have to be a cop. and i don't like it.
so yes, i've met cops who seem very awesome. i work out with a juvenile probation officer who i think is an amazing person. i don't think every cop is a socially inept dickbag. but i have certainly had more negative experiences with cops than positive ones. but i think it's for the most part, a world view issue. because i don't think MOST cops are abusive or anything.
though, i do think our criminal justice system is fucking broken and has fascist tendencies, i realize that's not the fault of anyone individual cop.
>> ^Shepppard:
>> ^Matthu:
>> ^lantern53:
If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.
You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.
And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.

I was staying out of this until I saw this comment.
Your logic is flawed.
There are ~800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S., you get to see one bad cop in a video every once in a while. Let's say 250 of these videos come out a year, that still leaves 799750 cops that didn't make it to youtube for doing something stupid.
It's hilarious how you call the handful of us defending police officers clones because we aren't judging them all because of a handfull of idiots. And you can try to deny it all you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.
Yes, there are idiots, and yes, those idiots don't deserve to be on the force, but that doesn't justify hating everyone who wears a badge. In my entire lifespan with my dad being a cop, I've only ever known -one- "bad" cop, and the reason he was a "bad" cop was because he commit credit card fraud. All other interactions I've ever had have been more than pleasant, including the one who pulled me over because I was driving without headlights on. She found out I was driving without a license, and because I was actually polite about it and not an ass, she let me go on the grounds that I had someone come and pick me up.
Open YOUR eyes, what interactions, if ANY, have you ever had with a cop other then watching them on youtube? I'm all ears.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

So, point out the millions of videos of cops acting bad... What about the lazy citizens, criminal citizens and such who act worse?Your justification for a cops "bad behaviour" is that criminals act much worse? How like criminals do you think cops should act?>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Is our nation's society, the system we all run by, or any other nation's system for that matter, broken? Broken is the wrong word. The right word would be imperfect. Given that society is a constantly evolving system, hopefully to the benefit of the whole, broken is a silly word. So let's try again:>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Is our nation's society, the system we all run by, or any other nation's system for that matter, imperfect? Yes. Emphatically, yes.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
The mother who sprays her child with a pressure washer? The crackhead who leaves her baby in a car, or let's her baby suffocate in the couch because she is passed out? WHY! Motherhood must be a flawed system! Or the robber who shoots the head off a bank teller? Why, open banks are flawed systems!False analogy. Attributing a bank teller's head being blown off to open banks is the same as attributing an innocent man's innocenter dogs murder during a police raid to the unarmored nature of the dog.>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Please spare the hyperbole...The irony! It's thick! >> ^Lawdeedaw:
cops are people who need weeded just like every other person-- Here we agree. Everyone needs to get a little weeded every now and then.>> ^Lawdeedaw:
... And more get fired than before too.[citation needed] You sound like a religious zealot who bashes atheists.???

You sound like one hand clapping.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:
And what have you done personally to change the system? Do you vote for or against Sheriffs who are elcected officals? Have you written to a mayor about abuse? No? Have you supported candidates who can effect change? No?No. I've done none of these things.

But what of you? Have you organized parades in support of the judicial system? Have you given back rubs to your local "S"herrif? No? Have you ever purchased a sexy policeman calendar? No?

Ahh, well, then, your argument must be invalid.
>> ^Matthu:
>> ^lantern53:
If every police officer in this country acted this way, there would be armed revolution.
But these are two shitbirds out of hundreds of thousands of honest cops who risk their lives to keep the peace and try to preserve justice.
Don't judge thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots who should be canned...or caned.
Would you like to be judged by the action of one of your co-workers?
Don't be a knee-jerk clone and try to paint all police officers by the actions of these two.

Lol... Getting so sick of hearing this bullshit copy pasta. How many videos of abusive cops need to be put up before they're considered evidence of a flawed justice system.
You're the clone, open your eyes. If police officers continue to act this way there will be an armed revolution.
And I'm not judging hundreds of thousands of cops on the basis of these two idiots. I'm judging the system which creates an unacceptable amount of abusers.

Oh, and I guess it's a bit late now, but @Matthu

Your grandmother thing: Most likely the reason they wanted to see her was to make sure she was actually there. There's cases of elder abuse where old folks are just left wandering, it's cruel, and sounds like it wouldn't happen, but it does.

As for my incident, I live in the 11th largest city in canada, 5th in the province. The region I live in (And the cops patrol) have close to 400-600,000 people. I was given a ticket for driving without insurance (We're not talking I didn't have my license on me, we're talking I didn't have a valid drivers license, just motorcycle license) She told me what she could have given me tickets for, and made it so I couldn't drive for like 3 years, but because the reason I was driving was to go pick up a scared, crying friend, she decided that I was polite enough and my cause was justified to let me go with the only stipulation being someone else came and took the car.

She also, I later learned, purposely wrote the wrong date on the ticket (It was 1 am on a tuesday, she wrote 1 am and the mondays date) so the ticket would be null.

One could argue this is because my dad is who he is, however, I was never asked if he was my father and to this day he doesn't know that even happened, so that's not an option.

I just basically happened to get one of those cops that so many of you think don't exist, that actually has a heart.

So, getting back to my main point, not all cops are the devil. Infact, it's very few of them who do stupid shit, but the ones who do their job right don't make it to youtube.

Pizza is good and worth stealing.

That's why these two officers are facing misdemeanor charges instead of felony charges, which is exactly what you or I would face if we did the exact same thing.

Well, I'm Canadian so my expectations might be different, but I fully expect criminals convicted of even things like assault to regularly get off with misdemeanor charges. The large amount of time I've spent in the US with family there hasn't led me to believe it's too radically different down there either. By no means am I suggesting that misdemeanor charges are okay in such cases, it's one of my biggest beefs with our system. I just don't see anything especially unusual or suspicious when it happens because it's so ridiculously common.

It's not about them not investigating, it's about mitigating liability and damages through their political influence.

That sounds clever. Seems to me though that the best way to mitigate liability and damages in this case would've been to throw the 2 criminals under the bus.

I'm not sure if the TSA has an IAG, but the second cop seemed to be working for an airport police department so maybe he does.

What level of accountability is enough for you? The police have the IAG. If that's not enough the police are setup as independent from the judicial system, and are accountable to it. The judicial system is setup as independent from the law makers, and they are accountable under it.

Let's be honest. You aren't arguing for greater accountability for the police force. Your arguing for reducing the police for want of accountability, right?

@sheppard.
was gonna write the litany of experiences i have encountered with bad,brutal and authoritarian police but peg beat me to it and to do so now would just be self serving.
that being said i will whole heartedly agree that most cops are decent and professional but there are two things of note i would like to share.
1.city cops and country cops=huge difference.most city cops i have encountered are pretty even handed.they have seen it all and minor infractions just make them laugh while a county sheriff likes to push his weight around and demands respect in the form of bullying (not all mind you but enough).
2.there seems to be differing outcomes on the type of cop based on the reasons to become one in the first place.the cop who chose to become one due to a desire to serve,protect and perform a much needed service tends to be more pragmatic and proffessional than the cop who decided he wanted a job which carried authority and the ability to dominate under the guise of "law".
one produces an exceptional police officer the other produces the people you see in videos such as these.

my conclusions are based on anecdote and observation and really have no scientific methodology other than my own experience but if you ask people if they have experienced "bad cops acting badly" you may get a novel rather than a blurb.
i have to admit a certain gladness that your family is among the "good cop" variety and that you defend them at every occasion because "good cops" should be defended but lets also be clear.
bad cops need to go and the best defense against the bad cop should start with their fellow officers NOT with youtube videos.

Drunk Romulans? RUN!

@Porksandwich those all sound like good ideas. I especially like the idea of trying to make rehabilitation more of a core function of our justice system. It seems like once someone's been found guilty, society at large just writes them off as if they're no longer fully human.

The whole concept of justice and crime and punishment is just rife with deep philosophical questions.

Take A Clockwork Orange for example. What's the just way to deal with someone like Alex? Lock him up? Execute him? Brainwash him so he's rendered physiologically incapable of giving in to his dark impulses? But he's a special case, and clearly mentally ill. A mental hospital is almost certainly the right place for him.

How about someone like Scott Roeder, who murdered Dr. George Tiller for running an abortion clinic? He's probably not clinically insane, he's just acting in what he considers a highly moral fashion -- he's preventing the extermination of hundreds, if not thousands of innocent lives, by taking the life of one man, knowing that his life, and possibly even his immortal soul is forfeit in doing so. I say that's mental illness too, but there's more than a few people out there who think he's a hero and a martyr. Would it be serving justice if we could "cure" him of his convictions? I'm not entirely comfortable with that, but I don't see how he's safe to release back into society with his beliefs intact.

How about Lloyd Blankfein, or Tony Hayward? They gambled the lives and livelihoods of millions of people, knowing that it was a "heads I win", "tails they lose" situation. But that's their entire job function -- to find a way to exploit economic opportunities to make money, wherever they find them. Every pressure on them inside the company and within the culture they live in was for them to do the immoral, profitable thing. In this case, I think these guys' real crime is that they gave in to peer pressure, which is not exactly a tremendous moral failing. Shouldn't we blame those who pressured them? Maybe the entire social and economic structure that's designed to encourage this kind of behavior in the first place? What court can rule on that?

Instead, on VS, the only debate people seem to want to have is "are cops evil or not?"

Since when is life so black and white?

No, ofc life isn't black and white.

"Are cops evil or not?" This is silly and anyone who inferred from my posts that I think cops are evil is handling me with retard gloves. I don't need to be reminded that things aren't black and white, and it seems like every time the pattern of abusive cops comes up, numerous people feel the need to talk about all the great cops out there. It's like a kid tells his mom he doesn't like tomatoes, and she says, hey now, fruits are great! Don't forget, you need fruits. Now, eat your tomatoes.

We don't need bad cops, and I think there are too many bad cops. If the occurrence of abuse was reduced to a thousandth of what it is now, that might be acceptable "spillage". But it's not. Either it's getting worse, or we finally have the means, through the net, to communicate the scale. An important question is what's an acceptable amount of "bad cops" within our society? 100 out of 1,000,000? 1000? 10000?

Once we decide we are grooming too many bad cops, then we can look to solutions, unless we can't even agree that a tomato is a fruit...

But anyhow, as far as solutions go - it's a complex double rainbow of factors. I suspect it starts with socioeconomic disadvantages and education.

But, I definitely don't have all the solutions. Thanks for reminding me, @NetRunner.

@NetRunner

I guess the point I was trying to make was that I have personally seen the system fail in the last 6 months. My brother was a fucked up mess mentally, and to this day is still irrational to the point that it's like trying to talk to a wall on many topics......especially topics that landed him in the court system. He's not quite as irate as he was, since he got the shit kicked out of him so bad in prison holding (contempt of court charge and was held until his trial could be completed and him sentenced, got probation). He was beaten by 5-8 guys, which they've only charged 2.....broke his shoulder bad enough that they thought he'd need surgery to repair it for the first couple days after it happened. He now has a virtually unusable arm, he can't lift it even as high as his should and there for awhile he couldn't grip anything or raise it beyond his waist. He was also knocked unconcious and had his head split open. And the kicker here was that prior to this they kept him in solitary due to his outbursts related to his mental condition. Within 24 hours of being put into the public areas of the prison, this happened to him. And they didn't press charges until he brought it up with his probation officer and they had no record of it when he mentioned it. They also withheld pain medications....and have now refused to pay medical expenses for what happened in jail...they've even billed him for the trip to and from the hospital for treatment.

Now....this incident could have been prevented a minimum of 3 months ago when they sent him to a mental facility in another city ...for evaluation. They told my parents he was going to be evaluated for a mental disorder (because this happened in the past and even though he went to months of treatment they never corrected it, just covered it). It turned out, the only thing he was being evaluated for was mental competency....does he know right from wrong. That's it. They didn't confirm if he was bipolar like previous diagnosed, or borderline personality disorder like previous diagnosed....or schizophrenic like they thought he was before bipolar was the diagnosis. So they took someone who had previously been diagnosed with a mental disorder, tested him for competency, held him in jail and on house arrest due to the mental disorder, and put then him on trial untreated for his mental disorder. He was put back into jail when he failed to take medications while on house arrest. What sane, rational thinking person would refuse to take a pill a day so he could stay in a house where he can eat regular food, sleep in a bed, take showers regularly..etc? And for that matter, what sane rational thinking person would chew out a judge and then refuse to take a piss test and land himself in jail in the first place when they were going to let him go bail free?

There was ONE, just ONE sheriff in the whole court building that took it upon himself seeing that my brother was not thinking properly...to try to get him in and out of the building without arresting him. All of the others wanted to take him down as soon as he left the court room...he told them no and that he would take responsibility for it. And from there on, everything else was an utter failure. The court system that could force treatment on him to get him back to normal didn't do it, and they are the only ones who can unless you get power of attorney over someone through a lengthy 6+ month process that costs a nice chunk of change.

There's just a near complete lack of division for criminals aside from the worst crimes such as rape, child crimes, and murder...after that..everyone is a criminal whether they truly understand their guilt or not or whether they can be "cured" or not. Personally after seeing what my brother has had happen to him, I think I'd rather be dead than go to prison on any charge......they don't foster anything but breakdown physical, mental, or emotional in those places.

@Porksandwich I know I started my last comment directed at you, but honestly the first paragraph was the only part really directed at you. I'm in agreement with you -- there needs to be more empathy, more flexibility, more compassion, less prejudice, and better judgment exercised within the justice system, and nobody should be satisfied with the status quo.

@Matthu, I wasn't really directing the tail end of that rant at anyone in particular. It just seems like the comment thread on every "police doing something bad" video plays out the same way. It's always some form of "how do we stop these cops who're unaccountable and completely out of control?" when the video usually hasn't established anything at all about whether the officers involved are going to be held accountable, nor has it provided any kind of statistics that would allow us to draw conclusions about the overall trend in police brutality.

I'm genuinely interested in ways to reduce police brutality, or at least reduce the scale, but I can't really think of much to do about it except what we're already doing. I think the knowledge that virtually every citizen carries a digital videocamera with them at all times has probably massively reduced the number of cops stepping out of line, it's just that now when they do we get some really juicy video when cops step out of line, whereas before it was dry 2nd hand news reports, if anything. That leaves our monkey brains with the impression that things are getting worse, regardless of what the facts really are.

My justification for cops is how bad criminals act? No, it is not. I am simply pointing out that cops are a reflection of society. They were citizens first...

Second, actually my community has an awesome Sheriff and Mayor---so why should I vote against them or write them (besides to say thank you) or do parades against them? Drink and drive as a cop? Fired. Unlawful use of force? Face charges. Act like a complete ass, reprimand. I see it every day on the news and in my community. So no, my argument is not invalid [Citation needed]...

I sound like one hand clapping? Like when a person claps his fingers together (Using one whole hand for momentum) and it sounds like a clap? WTH does that have to do with anything? Or did you think a one-handed clap impossible? [citation needed.]

Broken means that it is not running correct. So yes, our rules and our society is broken, so you can stop acting all high and mighty---trying to prove me wrong simply because I did not want to use a pussy-ass word like "imperfect." Oh, you need a citation for that definition?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/broken

*dead

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