OK, this is A-Grade terrible parenting. This kid is going to grow up to be a little thug.

Why?

a) He's 5 and they're letting him play counterstrike... a game about shooting people dead, in a realistic setting with blood and all... great.
b) They all laugh and gloat when he shoots the guy (poor sportsmanship by the sounds of the guys there)
c) The kid says 'Shut up Dad'... so he already has no respect for his parents, brilliant... brilliant.
d) His dad's final laugh 'Heh Heh Heh Heh'... you can TELL he's a competitive jock dick who loves reveling in others misfortunes and will goad his kids to be competitive jocks too.

I have three kids, two of which can play computer games (3 1/2 and almost 5), it will be many years before they are allowed to play a game like this. They currently play games like Thomas and Friends or Lego Star Wars or Tonka to the Rescue (or whatever that game is called) or Audiosurf. Nothing with real violence at all... (and even with lego style violence like in Star Wars you can see the effects in their play).

And their play time is REALLY limited. They were allowed to play for 10 mins or so a day if they wanted, but now my eldest is on a 'break' for a week due to carrying on like nothing else because he wanted to play again in the same day.

They're too young to spend much time on a pc. play with lego, play in the garden, read a book etc. etc.

I love computer games, I have a Computer Science Degree, I make my living coding. I didn't touch a computer until I was 7 (well, there wasn't really any ability to until the mighty ZX Spectrum in 1983), and so while I'm happy for them to be familiar with PCs, enjoy the occasional game, I do not want them to be hanging for their next game at all.

I feel sorry for this kid, I really do.

I just looked at one of this guy's other videos (of his son at 4 playing counterstrike) and he has this comment on it:

For those who feel the need to post "bad parent" comments, get a life. There is no evidence that playing this type of game does anything but improve hand eye coordination. My son is a social and academic achiever at the top of his class. He knows the game is pretend.

To me, this is no different than playing "cops and robbers" with cap guns as I did as a child.

I've been playing these sort of games since they first came out. There has been no effect on me in any way.

...and I will hunt you down and kill your whole fucking family if you say otherwise.

I too disagree with spoco2.

But who knows, perhaps my views will change when I become a parent.

First of all, let me say that I'm not a parent so you can go ahead and take what I say with a grain of salt.

Spoco2 I agree with you on a & c, but disagree on b & d. I wouldn't consider their laughter poor sportsmanship, just finding amusement in the kid's ability at the game - the whole point of the game is to shoot other people. Poor sportsmanship I think would be more along the lines of taunting them through the mic or in chat. Also, I don't think we can make assumptions about someone's personality by their laugh.

However, I do agree that this is poor parenting. Just because a parent claims to know that this violence has no affect on the child doesn't mean it is true. Desensitization at an early age has a rippling effect. Furthermore, most children at this age still have great difficulty discerning the difference between reality and fantasy and try to act out the things they enjoy (remember how children have imaginations?). How many of us broke our arms acting out ninja turtles? Guns are not toys and this easily puts that thought into kids.

This is also bad parenting because it's not exploratory or any kind of creative outlet, the kinds of things needed in the developmental stages. He says it helps develop hand-eye coordination? Bullshit. Yes, I know it helps that, but the parent is trying to justify that as some kind of reason to promote it. What this kind of entertainment really is is a quick solution. Instead of investing yourself, you can just plop the kid down and let something else keep the little squirt occupied - that's why they call TV the boob-tube.

When this kid acts out something he sees, it can't be blamed on video games. It can be blamed on shitty parenting. I have no beef with violent video games. Violent movies and books have been out forever. I just have a problem with parents buying mature material for young children and then blaming the medium when their kids do what kids do, which is act out what they see.

^ Oh, I know you can't tell what a person is like via their laugh, but watching this, and the other videos he has up I think I'm fairly on the money. And yeah, saying bad sportsmanship was not the right term... I guess it's just down to me being miffed over 'oh ha ha ha ha ha, look at my 5 year old shooting people! Isn't that awesome, how fun and entertaining is that?'

Sorry, it's not... this is not appropriate for a 5 year old (or, as his other video shows, for a 4 year old for god's sake)

We've got very strict rules for my 5 and 8 year olds (with GTA for example, you can have sex with the ho's but you HAVE to pay and you cannot shoot them.)

He's wrong there's no evidence that playing counter-strike harms children? So present the evidence. Stop making assertions you can't back up. None of your three posts so far have contained a single scrap of useful argument.


>> ^spoco2:
I just looked at one of this guy's other videos (of his son at 4 playing counterstrike) and he has this comment on it:

For those who feel the need to post "bad parent" comments, get a life. There is no evidence that playing this type of game does anything but improve hand eye coordination. My son is a social and academic achiever at the top of his class. He knows the game is pretend.
To me, this is no different than playing "cops and robbers" with cap guns as I did as a child.

I think some of this comes down to opinion rather than fact. I don't believe it is as damaging as some would say, but, I would not like my kids playing games like this until they are older - videos games, with a limit on how long they sspend, is one thing, I think I prefer the idea of my kids, reading, and using their imaginations.

"How did you spend your childhood?"
"I shot imaginary people"

The thing is there is no social interaction here, and i would want him learning the language at 5 other people will certainly be using!

Thats just me, in time yes, at 5 years old - no way

But, thats not because I think it will damage him to the extent others believw, in the end CS is Cops and Robbers (I still dont think for kids though, too bloody)

The problem is parents who worry so much about aductions, pollution, drugs, the kids falling out of trees, that they don't let them out of the house, and so, TV and computer games become a lazy tool of parenting. (I am not saying if you let your kid watch TV or play computer games you are automatically bad and/or lazy)

Kids should play with other kids. Computer games yes, but not frequently. And check the content, CS I dont think is suitable for a five year old!

The funny thing is, some parents don't think twice about their kid playing that violent bloody shooter, but if the game contains any reference, no matter how slight to sex, then suddenly they give a shit. Now thats twisted logic.

I laugh when parents take pride that they're so good with computers and think it'll lead to a job in the field. I tell them that unless that field is CS tournaments, they'll be SOL. Being a good driver doesn't make you a mechanic.

Ive been an avid player since I was 6, so I am all for games. But letting your 5 year old play CS, is just parenting epic fail. I wouldnt even let my 5 year old watch this game. There are games that teach your child eye to hand coordination at least as well and they are not about killing people.

We will see more of those kids, though. Too many idiot players out there who have nothing else in their life and can only teach that to their children. Heres hoping that most of them will never have any children.

I agree with the outrage. My kids are 4 and 6, and no way are they old enough to not be affected by this. I'm also a hardcore fps gamer, I''ve probably put in more hours than anyone else I know. I know all the time I've spent playing 'violent' games hasn't made me one bit more violent. I also know that a big part of that was being old enough to appreciate what the animated violence translated to in Real Life. Unless your kid understands the real world meaning of shooting and killing people then they aren't old enough to understand the 'difference'.

My boys are 15 months, so it'll be a while before I have to make this decision, but I started playing violent games probably around 10 (there wasn't much in the way of violent games, or at least first-person shooters, before then). By 10, I was easily able to handle violent games, and I don't think they had any negative effect on me in the least.

I'm not outraged at the video, but I don't think I'll be letting my boys shoot people in games until they're at least a few years older than this boy. That will go for them watching me play such games as well. But it'll largely depend on how well they're able to "handle" it.

I don't think the laughter in the video, or the "shut up dad" (which came off as playful to me), has any relevance whatsoever.

I played Duke Nukem 3D when I was young. I think I came out okay.

But yeah the dad did seem a lil' too eager.

My dad took me to see "it's alive" in a drive-through when I was 5, and Alien when I was 8. Both feature gory killing. I must be totally broken now.

There's a good British TV series called "A child of our time"

They follow 25 children born in 2000 each year with a team of psychologists for testing etc. One of the kids was a serious HALO addict and in to most games in that genre. He was fine, a bit one sided but as they pointed out in the show, his games gave him something to talk about to other kids that was 'cool' so he was always very social and had lots of friends.

I think balance is the important thing. I'd be more concerned about obesity and diabetes than any mental problems from this behaviour.

Oh and in addition.

A P90? I think the kid just had a lucky round, his dad probably filmed him through a couple of dozen games to get one that good. His opponents also looked pretty bad. I haven't played in years but I'm pretty confident he wouldn't kick my ass.

>> ^deathcow:
My dad took me to see "it's alive" in a drive-through when I was 5, and Alien when I was 8. Both feature gory killing. I must be totally broken now.


I agree with you, but not your reasons...

Experiences do affect us. Child or adult. If it didn't, you couldn't get any better at anything no matter how long you did it. Violent experiences, even sanitized by being "in a game" affect us.

Cause and effect. A cop sees people treating others violently, is he not affected by this? Does he not "get used to it?"

If someone watches "two girls, one cup" are they disgusted? If they watch a second time, is it less of an effect?

Violent media --games, movies, and music-- affects us. As children are more impressionable and have less experience to fall back on, they are affected more.

Will GTA cause a child to grow up to become a prostitute-killing, car-jacking, asocial monster? No.

Will witnessing a violent act have less of an impact on them? Yes.

Will they care about the victims of crime less? Yes.

Will they be less outraged when injustice happens? Yes.

When you confuse someone's "moral compass" by subjecting them to violence on a regular basis, they will at best accept violence as normal, and at worst, feel it's enjoyable.

I feel it myself sometimes, so it HAS to affect kids...

so does throwing a baseball.

>> ^spoco2:
There is no evidence that playing this type of game does anything but improve hand eye coordination.


>> ^Morganth:
He says it helps develop hand-eye coordination? Bullshit. Yes, I know it helps that, but the parent is trying to justify that as some kind of reason to promote it.

Coming from a gamer :
I would rather see the kid playing counterstrike instead of team fortress 2.
I would rather see the kid playing a game with realistic violence with realistic consequences(screams, blood, death) than playing a cartoonish parody of violence which whitewashes nearly all consequences of the act.
I would rather see the kid watching Saving Private Ryan(rating PG-13 in my book) instead of Tom and Jerry(rating R in my book.)

I think most childhood violence happens due to the 'acceptable'(aka unreal) violence in our daily media consumption. It subconsciously debases all reality of the act. I ask you, are parents who slaughter an animal on the family farm worse human beings because the child now has an understanding of death? I hope you realize 'no.'

I know most parents want to hold onto their child's innocence as long as they can, but that's their style of parenting. It takes all kinds, right?

>> ^Payback:
Will witnessing a violent act have less of an impact on them? Yes.

I'll give you that one, but is that so bad? My GF is the daughter of holocaust survivors, she is so traumatized that she can't even have a conversation about most of the fucked up shit going on in the world today, she is paralyzed by lack of exposure, and excessive "impact", that is not a good thing.

Will they care about the victims of crime less? Yes.

I don't see any evidence for this, if you can supply more then "I wish it -> it is" I'm sure we would all like to see the evidence.

I've been convince by the lack of evidence, despite decades of hard looking, that these sorts of games harm people, even very young people, in any way.

Judging somebody else's parenting cred on the basis of opinion is messed up, tie it to some fact, and I might be able to agree, but otherwise it's the same as the folks at the westboro baptist church telling you that you are a bad parent for not teaching your child their fucked up take on christianity.

My older cousin got me playing Doom (y'know, the one that causes kids to go on school shooting rampages) before i was old enough read and write.

Would i be pursuing a career in the graphic design industry if i had never played computer games? Who could tell? Maybe I'd be a successful athlete/astronaut/president? I wouldn't argue with the idea that one interest leads to other similar interests.

these days its kind of hard to be a successful president...

Don't care, don't need it on the sift. Good for you.. you're five... fuck my riding red cock master. edit: I was drunk; that last bit was probably over the line.

>> ^gorillaman:
He's wrong there's no evidence that playing counter-strike harms children? So present the evidence. Stop making assertions you can't back up. None of your three posts so far have contained a single scrap of useful argument.

>> ^spoco2:
I just looked at one of this guy's other videos (of his son at 4 playing counterstrike) and he has this comment on it:

For those who feel the need to post "bad parent" comments, get a life. There is no evidence that playing this type of game does anything but improve hand eye coordination. My son is a social and academic achiever at the top of his class. He knows the game is pretend.
To me, this is no different than playing "cops and robbers" with cap guns as I did as a child.

Alright, reading the comments this time...

Spoco2: Really? I mean, really...? Few things anger me as much as religion, but this witch hunt against video games is really angering up my blood. The TV is just as bad as any videogame a five-year-old could ever play (hmm, probably, apart from manhunt), so you'd have to exclude that from the kid as well.

Videogames are not decidedly bad for children, because it's not really been proved on way or the other. A lot of people have claimed results, but have as far as I know, always been biased be some sort of lawsuit (hello america, fuck you!).

I believe (and ugh, that word cuts my heart) that videogames don't hurt anything at all, and I base that on my own personal experience. I may not have been exposed to as life-like games as todays youth, but I don't think that makes that much of a difference. (Again, movies are much more lifelike than games).

This game is very little different from playing "cops and robbers" or "cowboys and indians" as it was called, when I was young... (uuuhhh, PC-police coming to my town.. I'm so scared)

spoco2's first post was perfect, nothing more to say...

Edit: His second post is good too. Academic achiever at age 4, priceless.

The fact is, you have to take a test for everything. Wanna drive a car? Take a test. Wanna be able to go to college. Test it is. But every dumb fuck yahoo is allowed to have a child and raise him/her however the fuck he wants...

In my opinion the worst part about letting a kid play CS is the crap people say on CS. You wanna let your 5 year old be exposed to an ungodly amount of obscene sayings and racial slurs then let them play cs online.

I feel sorry for this kid, I really do.


I feel sorry for your mum. She probably didn't intend to raise such a whiney twat.

pshhhhhh, stupid kid's using a p90.... what a total noob.

That's so wrong.
Imagine what should happen if this kid i put in a situation like in "Home Alone" movie.

Poor poor robbers ...

Jesus. Where to start? That's My son in the video. You all are basing my parenting skills on the fact that I let my son play CS?! I'm a horrible epic fail for that? Really? He *knows* it's a game folks. And it's not like it's all he plays. He likes his other mario games on the wii also. He like his toys, his bike, and to go swimming. Kid stuff. He also likes to watch his big brother and I play CS against each other. He does not equate the kills on CS as murders Do any of you? Their just points to him. He's always known and understood this. Stomping on Koopas head in Mario is killing too. Where do you draw the line?

And he doesn't play it often. He'd rather play HL2 and fight off ant lions.

And to to the person saying cops and robbers was like tag. What the hell are you talking about? We used GUNS. We shot each other with cap guns. We played DEAD. We did it all day. And to me this no different. And it's safer.

He reads. He does well in school. He's a great kid and plays well with everyone. He doesn't have a mean streak at all. And being a kid who was a nerd growing up, it really chaps my ass to be called a "competitive jock."
Because I laughed that some guy walked right into my kids line of fire? Because I was proud my 5 year old was winning? Please.

I control what servers he plays at. Only the Christian ones. If anyone curses he leaves and tells me. All of the guys he plays with know who he is. And they look out for him when I'm not in the chair next to him. I do parent my kids. All 5 of them. It isn't easy. But I do the best I can. Thanks for watching. Please don't post hateful comments on the YouTube page. He checks it often, and the mean ones upset him.

I appreciate your reply and you're right but I must LULZ at this line...

"I control what servers he plays at. Only the Christian ones."

There's a few strongly enforced Christian servers. Mostly HL2 ones. They keep the cursing and that stuff to a minimum. And for what it's worth, He almost never plays CS anymore because he doesn't like the competition. (he says they cheat because he keeps losing.) He likes the puzzley HL2 maps better where people work together.

What kind of argument is that: He knows it's not real. So I suppose you'd let him watch the Saw movies or Hostel, since he knows it's not real. Why do you suppose the game has an M rating? Do you even know what that means?

Letting a 14 year old play a M rated game is one thing, but 5 years old, that's just bad parenting, stop trying to find excuses. You're worried about swears so you only choose "Christian servers" (whatever the hell that is)? So you encourage your son to shoot people in the face, watching them bleed and sink to the floor while you cheer him on, but reading "shit", that's crossing the line! People, this site is in dire need of an "Only In America" channel! But I do realize this one individual just reflects horribly on alot of decent US citizens.

>> ^campionidelmondo:
What kind of argument is that: He knows it's not real. So I suppose you'd let him watch the Saw movies or Hostel, since he knows it's not real. Why do you suppose the game has an M rating? Do you even know what that means?


I think Saw and Hostel are something of a different class from Counterstrike. They are intentionally designed to disturb people. I don't think that CS is likely to give the kid nightmares...

Unless your argument is that you think watching Saw will actually make the kid go out and reenact the things on his friends.

BOOM HEADSHOT!

No my argument is that a five year old shouldn't be exposed to either CS or Saw/Hostel.

Reading the hyperbolic feedback here reminded me of why I first began to enjoy VideoSift - because it was an online community. Regardless of the topic I was usually very interested in the exchange of ideas. And as the site has become more popular, and the quality of videos deteriorated so too has the conversation.

You sound like sanctimonious pricks with your unfounded outrage and wild conjecture about the parenting skills of others.

Gloating over your opponents failure is half the game! Also, what's so bad about being one of the kids in school with confidence?

Thuggery? I laugh.

If you think CS and Saw and Hostle are in the same vein of graphic violence, it's clear you have either never played the game, or just don't know what you are talking about. The key difference being SUFFERING. There is none in CS, or HL2. No pain is conveyed. And for that matter, my son wont watch scary movies at all. The music freaks him out.

Alright, this is basically home territory to me because I've had this argument with my step-mother about videogames for YEARS.

I'd like to start off however by saying >> ^tonyandronda:
Jesus christ they're tracking us down from youtube, better start to watch what we say about their videos lol.

Now, This is in no way, shape, or form bad parenting. My dad left when I was 5, so I didn't have someone to go out and do the "Fatherly Stuff" (Catch, swimming, ect.) with, except every other weekend.

My time was spent on videogames. My first game was Tomba on the playstation where you went around and killed cartoon pigs. We'll then move onto games like legend of zelda, where you used a sword/bow/slingshot. Final Fantasy series using weapons. Area 51. GTA.

I'm glad to say that in the 15ish years i've been playing videogames that not once have I shot someone (apart from paintball) i've never weilded a sword. I've never got into a car and run someone down, and yes, I tried using magic. BUT! Who among us hasn't?

The reason i'm explaining all this? again, i'd like to point out that I was no older then this boy was when i started killing pigs in tomba. I'm not a mass-murderer, i'm not twisted, dark, or scarred. I live a normal life, and have no criminal record.

I do, however, have an amazing glove hand and hand-eye co-ordination. Weather or not that's because of videogames really can't be said, but it's true. But no, videogames don't turn kids into murderers, they don't teach people that killing is ok, or funny.

You wan't your proof? Go ahead and look at me. Because i'm it.

>> ^gwiz665:
Alright, reading the comments this time...
Spoco2: Really? I mean, really...? Few things anger me as much as religion, but this witch hunt against video games is really angering up my blood. The TV is just as bad as any videogame a five-year-old could ever play (hmm, probably, apart from manhunt), so you'd have to exclude that from the kid as well.

Um... which we do. Seriously, do you think we ban them from playing violent video games but plonk them down in front of Alien on the tv? Come on... at their age they do not need this sort of violence in their lives. You can spout all you wish as to 'I was never affected' or the like, but as well as just pointing out single cases doesn't prove a point, I'd also like to wager a lot of people who say "I played X Y and Z when I was a kid and I'm ok" were not 4/5 when they were playing those games.

We limit what the kids watch on tv, we limit what they play on the computer, both in time and in content... I have NO anger towards video games, you are obviously over touchy on the subject, did you NOT ACTUALLY READ any of my comments? I played games a lot as a kid, I earn my living from computers, but I didn't even touch a computer until I was 7 and then it was the oh so realistic graphics and gameplay as present on the 48K Spectrum...

>> ^tonyandronda:
Jesus. Where to start? That's My son in the video. You all are basing my parenting skills on the fact that I let my son play CS?! I'm a horrible epic fail for that? Really? He knows it's a game folks. And it's not like it's all he plays. He likes his other mario games on the wii also. He like his toys, his bike, and to go swimming. Kid stuff. He also likes to watch his big brother and I play CS against each other. He does not equate the kills on CS as murders Do any of you? Their just points to him. He's always known and understood this. Stomping on Koopas head in Mario is killing too. Where do you draw the line?


And he doesn't play it often. He'd rather play HL2 and fight off ant lions.
And to to the person saying cops and robbers was like tag. What the hell are you talking about? We used GUNS. We shot each other with cap guns. We played DEAD. We did it all day. And to me this no different. And it's safer.
He reads. He does well in school. He's a great kid and plays well with everyone. He doesn't have a mean streak at all. And being a kid who was a nerd growing up, it really chaps my ass to be called a "competitive jock."
Because I laughed that some guy walked right into my kids line of fire? Because I was proud my 5 year old was winning? Please.
I control what servers he plays at. Only the Christian ones. If anyone curses he leaves and tells me. All of the guys he plays with know who he is. And they look out for him when I'm not in the chair next to him. I do parent my kids. All 5 of them. It isn't easy. But I do the best I can. Thanks for watching. Please don't post hateful comments on the YouTube page. He checks it often, and the mean ones upset him.


There will be no getting through to you I see, at all, you try to say that 'he'd rather play HL2'... as if that's better... dear god that has some violence in that game, zombies being blown apart, screaming while they're on fire etc. etc. The game is A Grade great, but for a 5 year old? Truly, you don't get it.

And saying he won't watch violent movies because the music scares him obviously suggests you've given him the chance too... brilliant.

And you say that you play on Christian web servers, which I think really does say a lot. Has your son seen naked women? Are naked men and women and some bad words off limits while gratuitous violence and fighting is a ok?

Great stuff, really... great stuff.

Sure, everyone has different styles of parenting, but ask yourself why does your son really need to be exposed to this so early? Playing or building things with his dad would be a FAR more constructive and lifelong strengthening exercise for him...

>> ^justinianrex:
Reading the hyperbolic feedback here reminded me of why I first began to enjoy VideoSift - because it was an online community. Regardless of the topic I was usually very interested in the exchange of ideas. And as the site has become more popular, and the quality of videos deteriorated so too has the conversation.
You sound like sanctimonious pricks with your unfounded outrage and wild conjecture about the parenting skills of others.


Really? So... the thing is, you put a video out on the internet saying 'look how awesome my kid is for playing a violent game at age 5'. And you think everyone else should just go 'Yeah, great, that's really... erm, great.'

No, you put this kind of thing out there and this is what you can expect. You can try to suggest anyone against this kid playing these sorts of games this young are just reactionary 'anti gaming nuts'... but you'd be wrong. I can't see anyone giving any good reason why a kid of this age should be playing games like this, and yet there are plenty of reasons not to.

As such... why do it? Hand eye co-ordination is a steaming pile, there are plenty of other computer games and real world activities that develop that much better... playing a musical instrument would be one, and probably serve a kid better than being able to play CS.

I just installed my old X1900XTX in my sister's computer today so she can play the copy of Half-Life 2 I got her for her birthday in December. Back then, her six year old watched her play through the first level full of glitches and crashes on her shitty Intel onboard graphics. Today when we restarted the game he remebered what to do at every point in that level. Once we got to shooting people I explained to him that the parts where you shoot people are about being able to move your mouse and click precisely on cue. The story, and ensuing violence is just an excuse to control the mouse. He seemed to understand. I think it's all about balance. He's more interested in tennis at this point.

Maybe Half-Life 2 and CS are too violent for most six year olds, but I think if you present them as a pure game, like Cowboys and Indians, or in the case of HL2 as a sort of participatory movie, it's okay. You just don't want to leave you six year old alone in a room obsessively playing the game to the exclusion of further development. That's for when they move into the basement!

and if you play Stairway to Heaven backwards...

All we really have here is someone's hot button issue exposed, like choggies surprising outburst (surprised me anyway) about gay marriage. Other people go all road rage when flag burning is discussed, or abortion.

Spoco, You're an idiot. My son plays HL2 ONLINE. not the actual storyline game. Moron. You really think a 6 year old could? Like I said, You have no idea what you're talking about. Why let him play it? Because he thinks it's fun. It *is* fun. He doesn't sit there crying his eyes out because some make believe people got shot. The bodies disappear. They don't lose limbs or anything. Jesus. Did I say I was a christian? No. I have him play where I know people will keep the porn sprays and cursing to a minimum.

The kid plays piano. My other kids play guitar. But go ahead and make pointless grabs at trying to prove your point though. *I* know my kid is well rounded. So do those that know him. Just because he likes to play shooter games, (just like most kids) doesn't make him or me bad. You however are a quick to judge asshole. And you're wrong. These games teach about teamwork, consequences, problem solving, and much, much more. But focus on the simulated "violence" of pointing a gun and going "bang" like kids his age have been doing since the creation of the toy gun. Actually, it doesn't even take a toy to point your finger and go "bang"

And you think that because I said that scary movie music frightens him that I force him to watch them? You are such a colossal dumbass. Ever hear of "overhearing" things? Kids do it all the time. I suppose it's also horrible that I taught him to read Where the Wild Things are. Or that I expose him to art, movies, or outside. That I let him ride his bike with *gasp* no knee pads! The horror!

And if you think its wrong to celebrate winning or beating anyone, at anything, you are what is wrong with this country. People like you celebrate weakness, and mediocrity and sameness. Screw that. My kid is an individual. And I'm damn proud of him.

Furthermore, most children at this age still have great difficulty discerning the difference between reality and fantasy and try to act out the things they enjoy (remember how children have imaginations?).

That is exacerbated by attempting to shelter children from everything. The only way to learn about anything is by being exposed to it.

No point in arguing. Cant break someones ignorance on the internet. People like that think they are the greatest parents on earth and everyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

Still, kids trying to be parents is pretty dangerous.
I wish there would be a parenting license...

Oh yeah, just one more thing. When I was 8 up until I was 12 I had nightmares all the time. I even sleepwalked at least once a week. Then my mother brought me to a therapist and he told me that I should stop watching He-Man, and all the other pretty violent (they werent really violent at all) kids series. Of course I already played computer then and he said I should also stop playing similar games.
I did that and from one day to another these nightmares and sleepwalking were gone.

Im not saying that everyone will react as I did, but I know for a fact that everyone reacts differntly and its nowhere near obvious that there are problems, if there are problems. When that happened to me I never had problems with that while I was awake. I enjoyed watching those series and playing such games.

My brother had a similar experience. He was allowed to watch a zombie film when he was 7. Of course my parents told him that its only a movie and its not real. He SEEMED to understand that but when the movie started and a zombie bit a huge chunk of flesh out of someone he was frightened to death. Not right away, but when he had to go to bed. Even today (hes 33 now) he cant play games like doom 3 or similar alone because it contains zombies...

Get it: There are FUCKING REASONS that those games and movies are rated. Youre just showing your ignorance if you let your 5 year old do something like that.

>> ^tonyandronda:
I know my kid is well rounded. So do those that know him.


See, that's exactly the point you don't get. No 5 year old kid is a well rounded person, they're shaping up to be the person they will become when they're older. Unfortunately for your kids, you're doing alot of the shaping.

The worst part yet is that you're not letting him play because you don't care. You're letting him play so you can film him, put the video on the internet and brag about it. Truly pathetic.

So spoco2 you feel you are enabled to judge their ability for parenting for some less than 1 min videos here?

Why dont you post some videos of your child so we can judge your parenting aswell?
Were are your proofs than dont letting your kids play videogames for more than 10 minutes a day is good parenting?
I suppose you mean good parenting from your point of view that being clearly that fake violence in videogames is bad cause your made up view that childs dont know how to tell reality from madeup entertainment as some more ppl posted without any scientifical or statistical proof.
Can you cite the unchallengued sources of your assumptions or is just you are in the truth possesion by your divine right of being a parent?
As for ppl telling their personal experiences about nightmares, and such, for everyone of you we can find a gamer that dont have. Actually we can find childs raised in top families without access to any of your supposed "threats" that commit crimes, is that a proof of something? NO.

Stop trying to force your absurd way of living on everyone else.

Like some ppl are saying in the vein of:

"The fact is, you have to take a test for everything. Wanna drive a car? Take a test. Wanna be able to go to college. Test it is. But every dumb fuck yahoo is allowed to have a child and raise him/her however the fuck he wants..."

Where are your child raising credentials? Would you do different as what you do cause some fuckwit told you how to raise your kids "right"?. Yeah Im sure of that.

The kids and the parents are enjoying their time together is the only conclusion I can see from those videos. Reckon your own kids as the individual persons they are and not as your dog that get smacked when it doesnt do what you want.

Tony, kudos on you man. I think a lot of kids of the whinners here envy yours for having a parent like you.

Why dont you whinners put up some videos of your kids and your relationship with them so we can discuss them too? I would like to see their happy faces when you forbid them to play more than 10 mins a day a game.

I hate backseat drivers, monday morning quarterbacks, and people that hand out parenting advice to other parents.

I'm not a parent (yet) but god help whomever judges my parenting skills. Especially with gibberish that has not been substantiated by empirical data.

Tonyandronda, while we most certainly appreciate your comments, especially because this is your video, you will need to drop the name calling and personal attacks.

I'm divided on this issue, but as a gamer, FPS games are something you graduate to after Mario/Link-type games are no longer enticing enough.

...and at 5, you've got a LONG way to go...

That said, his coordination with mouse/keyboard is amazing.

Seriously, Marinegunrock, I'm responding to heaped on baseless and tactless attacks on my character. How do you expect me to respond?

>> ^tonyandronda:
Seriously, Marinegunrock, I'm responding to heaped on baseless and tactless attacks on my character. How do you expect me to respond?

He would like you to respond with civility considering he personally didn't attack you. However, I do think that you are justified in being upset when somebody jumps all over you about your parenting. I wouldn't take too lightly to it either.

If you would like to get a point across though, I think you'll find you draw more ants with honey, if that analogy makes sense in this application. I doubt you are a bad parent and I definitely don't think letting your little boy play this game makes you one.

Half of these people are hypocrites. They spit all of this junk about how this and that warps your child's mind, yet they're relatively well-adapted after growing up with the violence of Looney Tunes. All they know is they want children to live in a sugar-coated, bubble wrapped world where everybody is a winner. Separating reality from fantasy is a task for the parents and I think a 5 year old can potentially own the capacity to understand the difference. Then again, we don't know your child so none of us are the experts you are.

I did respond civilly rottenseed, I think if you re read Spoco2's posts and my answers to them you'll see I kept my cool for as long as possible. I don't think MarineGunrock ever attacked me, and I certainly didn't attack him.

It seems now that I'm here to defend myself that people have less to say about it. The video was made in fun, by my 17 year old and myself as we were astounded by how well he was playing against guys my oldest usually plays against. It was one of those "Let me try! Let me try!" we got out of his way and let him.

People see this, and the other vid I made when he was younger and think This is all he does, Which isn't so. He occasionally plays these games, but when he does, he's good at them. *That's* the joke of the vids we're trying to convey. Our shock at how good he is at mastering the key commands. Crouch, jump, strafe, and weapon switches, he learned it all by watching, Before he could even read. And could pull it off with his tiny hands and short fingers.

I dunno. the images of ragdolls being blown across the sky dont seem gory to me. There are flashes of simulated blood, but on my system, it's hard to tell. It's not like other games where if you shoot someone they're covered in blood, and lose and arm or leg. Like FEAR or something. Those games are harmful because of the atmosphere, the sounds and music are huge contributing factors that create an air of fear and horror.

For the record, we dont have any vice city games in my house. Attacking police, robbing people, and picking up hookers isn't something I'll let my kids partake in, even if it is just a game.

This video did so well here so most of us think it's damn awesome your kid is working over other gamers at such a young age. Your ethics are your own and don't let spoco2 spoil this site for you. Opinionated we are but fair we strive to be. Hopefully you become a regular contributor in these threads as well as video submissions.

(if you do plan on submitting videos, remember: no self-links)

Look, you're obviously of the opinion that exposing your children to this level of violence at this age it ok. I completely disagree.

As I said in a previous post, people can grab stats to back up almost any viewpoint, but here is a roundup of many studies on the effects on children of violence.

It has some very choice experiments:

"In 1956, researchers took to the laboratory to compare the behaviour of 24 children watching TV. Half watched a violent episode of the cartoon Woody Woodpecker, and the other 12 watched the non-violent cartoon The Little Red Hen. During play afterwards, the researchers observed that the children who watched the violent cartoon were much more likely to hit other children and break toys.

Six years later, in 1963, professors A. Badura, D. Ross and S.A. Ross studied the effect of exposure to real-world violence, television violence, and cartoon violence. They divided 100 preschool children into four groups. The first group watched a real person shout insults at an inflatable doll while hitting it with a mallet. The second group watched the incident on television. The third watched a cartoon version of the same scene, and the fourth watched nothing.

When all the children were later exposed to a frustrating situation, the first three groups responded with more aggression than the control group. The children who watched the incident on television were just as aggressive as those who had watched the real person use the mallet; and both were more aggressive than those who had only watched the cartoon."

Oh, and I do apologize for my somewhat insulting accusations and the like in previous posts, but the mindset that violence is ok while swearing and (an assumption, I know) nudity are not is a really weird mindset in so many people today.

A quick note. My son is now six. Not five. A lot has changed in the last year for him, as far as what he can be exposed to. Last year I was horrified to catch him watching family guy. He is still forbidden to watch adult swim cartoons and anime. (except the ones on regular tv like dragon ball z)

I think a lot of this debate can be boiled down to the context. You're looking at the game not as glorified tag, but as a violent killing spree. I can see your angle, but I disagree. If for one minute I thought he got pleasure from the killing aspect of it, rather than scoring a frag, I'd end his playing. It's just fun tag to him. There isn't a shred of meanness. If there were, If he was shouting DIE DIE DIE at the screen, you'd be right to be alarmed. I would be.

My position on swearing is that I don't allow it around *him* because I'm afraid he'll do it at school. I have a very liberal position on nudity. I think the general American position that sex and sexuality is bad couldn't possibly be more wrong and twisted. I fully intend to vaccinate my two daughters for HPV for instance. But that's another discussion all together isn't it?

>> ^tonyandronda:
A quick note. My son is now six. Not five. A lot has changed in the last year for him, as far as what he can be exposed to. Last year I was horrified to catch him watching family guy. He is still forbidden to watch adult swim cartoons and anime. (except the ones on regular tv like dragon ball z)
I think a lot of this debate can be boiled down to the context. You're looking at the game not as glorified tag, but as a violent killing spree. I can see your angle, but I disagree. If for one minute I thought he got pleasure from the killing aspect of it, rather than scoring a frag, I'd end his playing. It's just fun tag to him. There isn't a shred of meanness. If there were, If he was shouting DIE DIE DIE at the screen, you'd be right to be alarmed. I would be.
My position on swearing is that I don't allow it around him because I'm afraid he'll do it at school. I have a very liberal position on nudity. I think the general American position that sex and sexuality is bad couldn't possibly be more wrong and twisted. I fully intend to vaccinate my two daughters for HPV for instance. But that's another discussion all together isn't it?


So, I guess our sole argument is purely over our own definitions of what is 'too much' for our kids. I can see your point about him treating it like tag I guess, and indeed I like your attitude that if he was gaining enjoyment from the 'kill' then that'd be it for the game.

I too don't like any swearing around our kids either, not because I think swearing is inherently wrong, but because they don't understand the effect such language can have on others, and when it's appropriate. When they can better understand that then I have no issue with swearing around them. (But I can't imagine that being for quite some time)

Also nice to hear of your stance on nudity, how people can get so wound up over their kids seeing a naked person, but not bad an eyelid when they watch a violent film is beyond me.