*quality

What just happened?

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by luxury_pie.

Peaceful, nonviolent resistance.

Keep the moral high ground.
Let them show the abuses they will use to support the moneyed power structure.

I just screamed RUSH THEM, THERE'S FUCKING MORE OF YOU... but you're right - for now.

>> ^dannym3141:

I just screamed RUSH THEM, THERE'S FUCKING MORE OF YOU... but you're right - for now.

That's the American Way, Boise wants to try the Norwegian...

>> ^luxury_pie:

>> ^dannym3141:
I just screamed RUSH THEM, THERE'S FUCKING MORE OF YOU... but you're right - for now.

That's the American Way, Boise wants to try the Norwegian...


I'm English.

I love the guy at 0:50 that looks like he's trying to reason with the crying girl and cheer her up. "C'mon dear, we're just trying to brutalize and imprison you for expressing your beliefs. Please turn that frown upside-down so that it's easier for us to drag you away sweetie."

>> ^dannym3141:

>> ^luxury_pie:
>> ^dannym3141:
I just screamed RUSH THEM, THERE'S FUCKING MORE OF YOU... but you're right - for now.

That's the American Way, Boise wants to try the Norwegian...

I'm English.

Still it's the American Way of handling things. Good for you.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

The Sift Up dress rehearsal is going well. http://downunder.videosift.com/talk/Melbourne-Siftup-with-Dag-rescheduling-help-us-choose

I very much understand peaceful protest and I participate in it and have since the Iraq War started. However I've never been just simply attacked by policemen. I have to imagine if I was attacked I would fight back. My question is where legally do my rights lie? I don't think it's ok that a policeman can attack me and not expect me to fight back, that just doesn't make sense to me. If they're being unreasonable what are my rights under the law to protect myself?

I don't know the answers but this video angers me...if a cop ever did that to me while I was being peaceful I don't think I could stop myself from going on the offensive.

You don't have the right to defend yourself from a police officer enacting the law in a lawful manner, which they were doing. Legal positivism is a bitch. We derive our laws from a greater moral concern, apparently, but then the law trumps all other moral concern until a precedent is set in court or governments change it. In this case the government has non incentive to change it and judges cant rule retroactively so any changes, however unlikely, are only forward looking. If you fought back here you get in big shit and Victorian cops are like the LAPD of Australia.

I have friends who were both in this crowd at protesters and a friend in the Vic cops. Being in the police force gives you such an adversarial attitude towards those who stand against you. As such these cops have reduced capacity to differentiate between villains and champions. Funnily enough, the police had a minor strike (a form of protest) just 2 weeks ago. Oh the irony.

They're cops. Is it really shocking? They're the same everywhere.

Are they?

>> ^notarobot:

Are they?
<div id="widget_1197939013">

A friend in the camp's story from yesterday.

"One of the scariest moments yesterday was when this one psycho cop right next to me who kept trying to choke the person next to me. Me and another woman kept trying to stop him and get in the way. He would just hit our arms away and say shut up when we said there was no need for violence. The guy he was strangling was just standing next to us with linked arms, absolutely no threat. Even the police woman next to the crazy cop was nudging him and looking uncomfortable. And he just kept on laughing and laughing! Fucking scary stuff. Pity we didn't catch it on film."

This reminds me very strongly of a Terry Pratchett book - night watch. In it, there's a huge rebellion in Ankh Morpork (major, capital city). The 'police' are used to try and control the people - so to stop the police being aggressive and violent, the people get the relatives of all the police to come and look their sons, daughters, nephews and neices in the eye and make them feel ashamed.

Pretty hard for a sadistic, psychotic cunt to enjoy strangling a stranger when their grandma is looking on and saying "what are you doing to that woman, robert?"

I love how there's no context offered in this clip or by the "reporter".

These protesters said they were peaceful and would leave when asked. They were left alone and allowed full freedom to practice their protest. Days later, when they were finally asked to leave the protesters went back on their word and ignored all requests to vacate the area, instead planting themselves and refusing to move.

Finally after repeated requests to leave peacefully, a small number of police were called in to try and encourage them to move on. However when the police arrived, the protesters started hurling abuse and called everyone they knew (on sites like facebook, etc) to come down and outnumber the cops.

Of course the cops had to call in reinforcements of their own to ensure a full scale riot wouldn't break out (hence the riot and search and rescue police) and were tasked with using reasonable force to physically move the protesters who had well worn out their welcome. Of course this last few minutes is all that is reported and posted up here.

Disgrace.

Complete waffle.

You are making nearly all of this up.

>> ^NaMeCaF:

I love how there's no context offered in this clip or by the "reporter".
These protesters said they were peaceful and would leave when asked. They were left alone and allowed full freedom to practice their protest. Days later, when they were finally asked to leave the protesters went back on their word and ignored all requests to vacate the area, instead planting themselves and refusing to move.
Finally after repeated requests to leave peacefully, a small number of police were called in to try and encourage them to move on. However when the police arrived, the protesters started hurling abuse and called everyone they knew (on sites like facebook, etc) to come down and outnumber the cops.
Of course the cops had to call in reinforcements of their own to ensure a full scale riot wouldn't break out (hence the riot and search and rescue police) and were tasked with using reasonable force to physically move the protesters who had well worn out their welcome. Of course this last few minutes is all that is reported and posted up here.
Disgrace.

Really?

Nobody being punched or kicked. No batons, no pepper spray, no tasers. I didn't even see anyone being handcuffed. I have no idea what the specific issue was at this location that prompted police to break up this demonstration and I can understand people not agreeing with that decision.... but to call this "shocking" is sadly melodramatic. Police officers were obviously told to break up the people in the specific area (people watching from the outer area appeared to be left alone). They did it professionally and did not appear to hurt anyone. The protesters screaming and carrying on (specifically the douche at 0:48) look like morons to me and I have no sympathy for them.

I took the title directly from the Youtube submitter, and believe the word "shocking" to be appropriate.

I'm sorry that the world has become such a place that someone like yourself has come to view the behavior shown in this video as normal. And that those who exercise their right to peacefully assemble in public are deserving of this kind of treatment from the people who are supposed to be sworn to protect their safety.

>> ^TheSofaKing:

Nobody being punched or kicked. No batons, no pepper spray, no tasers. I didn't even see anyone being handcuffed. I have no idea what the specific issue was at this location that prompted police to break up this demonstration and I can understand people not agreeing with that decision.... but to call this "shocking" is sadly melodramatic. Police officers were obviously told to break up the people in the specific area (people watching from the outer area appeared to be left alone). They did it professionally and did not appear to hurt anyone. The protesters screaming and carrying on (specifically the douche at 0:48) look like morons to me and I have no sympathy for them.

Yes, they are. Everywhere, the main job of the police is to maintain the interests of the ruling class by maintaining order, i.e., the status quo. Mostly, this serves everyone's interests in things like preventing crime, and so on. But police forces everywhere are also used to resist power that the ruling class considers a threat. That's universal.

Also, as this video demonstrates, among the officers in every police force in the world, there are individuals who genuinely like, respect, and care for people, and use their position of privilege in the police force to try and do good.

The incidental traits of some individual police officers does not change the main purpose of all police forces everywhere.>> ^notarobot:

Are they?
<div id="widget_78377324">

I'll preface this with the statement that I feel that police brutality is on the rise and unchecked power is never a good thing, however

This video is not shocking. What is shocking to me is that people seem to think they can defy the police and get away with it. They had no right to be there, and they were told to leave and refused to go. So therefore, the police had the right to use reasonable measures to force them to leave. Were some cops using more force than necessary here? Probably so, but the protesters made the conscious choice to resist which gives a police officer the right to use force at their discretion. If you are going to use civil disobedience as a protest, you should expect to be arrested. If you are going to openly defy the police, you should expect a response. In civil society there is a rule of law. I don't see why anyone is shocked at the police enforcing the law on people who are breaking it. It doesn't matter how peacefully they were protesting; their right to protest became null and void when they decided to refuse to obey a lawful order.

There was punching and kicking and pepper spray. This is from 1st hand eye witnesses and participants. Look at my other vid to see excessive force being used. You should have sympathy for them or else your moral compass is way off.

>> ^TheSofaKing:

Nobody being punched or kicked. No batons, no pepper spray, no tasers. I didn't even see anyone being handcuffed. I have no idea what the specific issue was at this location that prompted police to break up this demonstration and I can understand people not agreeing with that decision.... but to call this "shocking" is sadly melodramatic. Police officers were obviously told to break up the people in the specific area (people watching from the outer area appeared to be left alone). They did it professionally and did not appear to hurt anyone. The protesters screaming and carrying on (specifically the douche at 0:48) look like morons to me and I have no sympathy for them.

"They had no right to be there, and they were told to leave and refused to go..."

yea thats how one protests generally speaking..

What you are saying is that if it is legal it is right. Legal positivism. If it is illegal then the police have the duty to respond with whatever power is within their means, not just what is appropriate.

Lets take that principle to its logical conclusion.

If the government says "You are not allowed to continue with the activity that you are doing. Therefore we are asserting our duty to protect the community at large and are going to forcefully prevent you from continuing in your unlawful act" Does this seem reasonable?

Google "Laws for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service"

This is the logical conclusion. What the protesters represent is a cause higher than that of the law. They are going about it in a peaceful manner with the minimal violation of laws and others rights (rights pertaining not to life, limb or property but of occupying public land. PUBLIC land).

If this is still unsatisfactory please ask why it is ok for police to do this and not ok for the lethal crackdowns we saw in Egypt, Syria, Yemen and Tunisia.

>> ^shinyblurry:

I'll preface this with the statement that I feel that police brutality is on the rise and unchecked power is never a good thing, however
This video is not shocking. What is shocking to me is that people seem to think they can defy the police and get away with it. They had no right to be there, and they were told to leave and refused to go. So therefore, the police had the right to use reasonable measures to force them to leave. Were some cops using more force than necessary here? Probably so, but the protesters made the conscious choice to resist which gives a police officer the right to use force at their discretion. If you are going to use civil disobedience as a protest, you should expect to be arrested. If you are going to openly defy the police, you should expect a response. In civil society there is a rule of law. I don't see why anyone is shocked at the police enforcing the law on people who are breaking it. It doesn't matter how peacefully they were protesting; their right to protest became null and void when they decided to refuse to obey a lawful order.

Most of them actually left when told to, the 100 or so who stayed really have no-one to blame but themselves. It shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone that our police are a bit heavy handed after the last few times this has happened.

Now as to whether the by-law they were violating is just is another question, but just remember our laws are NOT the same as in the U.S.
>> ^Kofi:

There was punching and kicking and pepper spray. This is from 1st hand eye witnesses and participants. Look at my other vid to see excessive force being used. You should have sympathy for them or else your moral compass is way off.
>> ^TheSofaKing:
Nobody being punched or kicked. No batons, no pepper spray, no tasers. I didn't even see anyone being handcuffed. I have no idea what the specific issue was at this location that prompted police to break up this demonstration and I can understand people not agreeing with that decision.... but to call this "shocking" is sadly melodramatic. Police officers were obviously told to break up the people in the specific area (people watching from the outer area appeared to be left alone). They did it professionally and did not appear to hurt anyone. The protesters screaming and carrying on (specifically the douche at 0:48) look like morons to me and I have no sympathy for them.

There was reportedly one person hospitalised, and 20 injured, out of only 100 protesters who remained after being advised that the protest was unlawful and that they should move along. I doubt they were told about the 400 riot police who were going to beat them up otherwise, but it's kinda implied after the last few similar episodes.>> ^TheSofaKing:

Nobody being punched or kicked. No batons, no pepper spray, no tasers. I didn't even see anyone being handcuffed. I have no idea what the specific issue was at this location that prompted police to break up this demonstration and I can understand people not agreeing with that decision.... but to call this "shocking" is sadly melodramatic. Police officers were obviously told to break up the people in the specific area (people watching from the outer area appeared to be left alone). They did it professionally and did not appear to hurt anyone. The protesters screaming and carrying on (specifically the douche at 0:48) look like morons to me and I have no sympathy for them.

What "last few episodes"?

I am asking this sincerely.

>> ^oritteropo:

Most of them actually left when told to, the 100 or so who stayed really have no-one to blame but themselves. It shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone that our police are a bit heavy handed after the last few times this has happened.
Now as to whether the by-law they were violating is just is another question, but just remember our laws are NOT the same as in the U.S.
>> ^Kofi:
There was punching and kicking and pepper spray. This is from 1st hand eye witnesses and participants. Look at my other vid to see excessive force being used. You should have sympathy for them or else your moral compass is way off.
>> ^TheSofaKing:
Nobody being punched or kicked. No batons, no pepper spray, no tasers. I didn't even see anyone being handcuffed. I have no idea what the specific issue was at this location that prompted police to break up this demonstration and I can understand people not agreeing with that decision.... but to call this "shocking" is sadly melodramatic. Police officers were obviously told to break up the people in the specific area (people watching from the outer area appeared to be left alone). They did it professionally and did not appear to hurt anyone. The protesters screaming and carrying on (specifically the douche at 0:48) look like morons to me and I have no sympathy for them.

The 'occupy' turn outs in Australia were a joke (in both size and message), our market is more strongly regulated (particularly the banking sector) and never got in to the sort of straights Wall st etc did.

That's neither here nor there on the level of force displayed in the video (which I don't think is unreasonable but that's just imo), but it would be handy if these people protesting weren't just jumping on the protest bandwagon rather than actually protesting a legitimate problem in Australia.

No one has the right to disobey a lawful order. You cannot have a rule of law that way. If it is an unlawful order, that is a different story. If you want to protest, you also have to be willing to take the heat, and to be civilly disobedient and risk arrest. What you're hoping for is to gain public support and enact some change in the mind of the public, which will hopefully led to a change in the system. That's the way it works. I don't buy that someones highfalutin ideals gives anyone the inherent right to defy the police. That's called anarchy. I feel the authorities here were not being entirely unfair, and did let them stay for a few days before asking them to leave. Why should people have the right to form impromptu tent cities and live in the public space for weeks on end? That's not a protest, that's called squatting.

I am speaking here of western style democracies. Totalitarian regimes are a different story. I believe God gives us certain inalliable rights, and if an authority is suppressing those rights, I believe we have right under God to transgress the earthly authority in those cases.

>> ^Kofi:
What you are saying is that if it is legal it is right. Legal positivism. If it is illegal then the police have the duty to respond with whatever power is within their means, not just what is appropriate.
Lets take that principle to its logical conclusion.
If the government says "You are not allowed to continue with the activity that you are doing. Therefore we are asserting our duty to protect the community at large and are going to forcefully prevent you from continuing in your unlawful act" Does this seem reasonable?
Google "Laws for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service"
This is the logical conclusion. What the protesters represent is a cause higher than that of the law. They are going about it in a peaceful manner with the minimal violation of laws and others rights (rights pertaining not to life, limb or property but of occupying public land. PUBLIC land).
If this is still unsatisfactory please ask why it is ok for police to do this and not ok for the lethal crackdowns we saw in Egypt, Syria, Yemen and Tunisia.
>> ^shinyblurry:
I'll preface this with the statement that I feel that police brutality is on the rise and unchecked power is never a good thing, however
This video is not shocking. What is shocking to me is that people seem to think they can defy the police and get away with it. They had no right to be there, and they were told to leave and refused to go. So therefore, the police had the right to use reasonable measures to force them to leave. Were some cops using more force than necessary here? Probably so, but the protesters made the conscious choice to resist which gives a police officer the right to use force at their discretion. If you are going to use civil disobedience as a protest, you should expect to be arrested. If you are going to openly defy the police, you should expect a response. In civil society there is a rule of law. I don't see why anyone is shocked at the police enforcing the law on people who are breaking it. It doesn't matter how peacefully they were protesting; their right to protest became null and void when they decided to refuse to obey a lawful order.

20 injured means nothing. What were the injuries? Who treated them? Scraped on the elbow and now you're injured? Who knows. Likely means 20 people had pepper spray land on them and now they are injured, which is a joke. I've been pepper sprayed directly in the eyes and while it sucks, it does not constitute an "injury". I also guarantee the police told them exactly what would happen if they continued to refuse to leave the area and even if they didn't, they would have to all be retarded to not know.


>> ^oritteropo:

There was reportedly one person hospitalised, and 20 injured, out of only 100 protesters who remained after being advised that the protest was unlawful and that they should move along. I doubt they were told about the 400 riot police who were going to beat them up otherwise, but it's kinda implied after the last few similar episodes.

Yeah, I have to ask what is so shocking. When the cop in NYC maced the girl who was already behind the police net and offering no resistance, I would call that shocking. Based on this edited video these police officers LOOK TO BE dispersing people who refused to disperse after being ordered to.

Of course you have to yank or drag someone who goes limp or links arms and refuses to cooperate. How else do you move someone like that from point A to point B? And the woman screaming at :08 comes across more like someone freaking out and resisting rather than someone actually being hurt by the police.

We all should know by now the magic of video editing can leave out all context, reality TV is based on it. This comes across more like a viral ad for The Herald Sun than some shocking footage of police overreaction.

They should have expected this. After all the police are the front lines of the plutocracy.

>> ^ulysses1904:

Yeah, I have to ask what is so shocking. When the cop in NYC maced the girl who was already behind the police net and offering no resistance, I would call that shocking. Based on this edited video these police officers LOOK TO BE dispersing people who refused to disperse after being ordered to.
Of course you have to yank or drag someone who goes limp or links arms and refuses to cooperate. How else do you move someone like that from point A to point B? And the woman screaming at :08 comes across more like someone freaking out and resisting rather than someone actually being hurt by the police.
We all should know by now the magic of video editing can leave out all context, reality TV is based on it. This comes across more like a viral ad for The Herald Sun than some shocking footage of police overreaction.


As far as Australian law goes (pretty sure the US is similar), the cops are allowed to use equal and proportionate force to complete their duties. I don't see truncheons, I don't see pepper spray, I don't see stun guns/tasers, people being slammed face first in to the ground etc.

Yes, people have a right to protest, but with rights come responsibilities. As far as public opinion goes, these guys might have garnered more sympathy if our banking sector had emulated Wall St's screw ups. How unfortunate for them that Australia didn't trigger the GFC or even suffer that badly because of it... \8 |