Tags for this video have been changed from 'deepak chopra leonard mlodinow stephen hawking quantum physics science' to 'deepak chopra, leonard mlodinow, stephen hawking, quantum physics, science' - edited by shuac

I can't get around the fact that Chopra has placed copious amounts of bling on his eyeglasses. Nice playa.

I can't take this man seriously after the love guru.

My guess is Chopra is not going to be taking the physic lesson, he too sure he knows it all.

This shows two points quite clearly. Firstly, irrational arguments can confuse pretty much anyone, even theoretical physicists. Secondly, the physicist should have spent more time researching Deepak's philisophical viewpoint, so he could at least sound intelligent when faced with counter arguments.

I like Chopra.

Yes, he can be much at times, especially when we need real world, "here and now" answers, but I have yet to hear Chopra say anything that didn't ring true, that didn't compliment or magnify my own observations.

I also admire and respect the pragmatic, empirical discipline of scientists and mathematicians, but I sometimes tire of their apparent inability to to look beyond their equations and formulas.

I just don't think that the two need be at odds all of the time.

^Agreed!

Didn't all you "scientific" skeptics hear that the date was 3/14, which is the abbreviation of pi... boom, magic! SPIRITUAL INFINITY R TRU!!! Headshot!

>> ^rougy:

I like Chopra.
Yes, he can be much at times, especially when we need real world, "here and now" answers, but I have yet to hear Chopra say anything that didn't ring true, that didn't compliment or magnify my own observations.
I also admire and respect the pragmatic, empirical discipline of scientists and mathematicians, but I sometimes tire of their apparent inability to to look beyond their equations and formulas.
I just don't think that the two need be at odds all of the time.


You didn't hear him say that Pi refers to infinity? If that rings true to you, you need a refresher course in basic mathematics. It's rather beside your point, I know, but it does serve as evidence to the fact that he -is- a scientific and mathematical illiterate, who works very hard to claim the authority of an "expert" without actually being one, without in fact, even understanding the subject.

When he redefines the words of quantum physics, and then tries to "educate" an actual physicist on the "truth" using this vocabulary of quackery, then the two definitely -do- need to be at odds.

@Stormsinger:

So, tell me the last digit in pi.

I'm in agreement with you on most things, just to let you know.

But I think you missed the point of his statement, and that's exactly what I was talking about in my post above.

What is the last digit of pi?

His statement was "... the first approximation of Pi, which refers to infinity."

Pi simply does not refer to infinity, the statement is wrong...false...untrue. This just isn't up for debate, it's not opinion, it's fact. If the point of his statement is that Pi cannot be precisely expressed in decimal form, he did a remarkably bad job of saying so.

If he stuck to his metaphysical claptrap, I'd have no real problem with him (I'd just ignore him), but he tries to put pseudoscience forward as the real thing. The man is a con artist and/or a quack. He deserves to be seriously slapped down...just as much as the owner of the creationist museum does.

You're still missing the freaking point.

Metaphor need not be shat upon in order to satisfy the people who are incapable of symbolic thought.

What is the last number of pi?

How many numbers are there in pi?

And he's nothing like the creationists, nothing at all.

Spirituality can only be spoken of as metaphor, and that's what Chopra does.

For some reason the slide-rule kids always get their panties in a bunch when anything deviates from what they know, and they don't know everything.

The number three refers to infinity when there are an infinite number of zeros after its decimal? Sweet. This knowledge will surely come in handy.

What the hell does the last digit of pi have to do with the -meaning- of pi? Nothing! Nada! Zip! The same is true for the number of digits. The number is exactly the same as the number of digits for 1/3, 1/9, 1/7, or a literally infinite number of other fractions.

And that's not even what he said, for crying out loud! He flat out said that pi refers to infinity. Which is absolutely fucking wrong!

Metaphor is one thing (although it -always- works better if the speaker/writer is clear that it -is- metaphor), factual falsehood is another. Basing a metaphor on a factual falsehood is one of the more stupid moves one could make, if you're actually trying to communicate. I suppose that if instead you're trying to confuse and misdirect, it's only to be expected.

Your argument could be equally applied to a claim that Jonathon apples mean traffic should stop, because they're red. It's nonsense, as in it literally makes no sense.

I know we tend to agree on most things, but mathematical illiteracy is a particular sore point with me. As is the unilateral redefinition of words by "professional" communicators, especially when those words are technical in nature, with precise and specific meanings. If a writer doesn't know the meaning of a word, that doesn't mean he gets to make up a new one. If he insists on doing so anyway, everyone else -should- feel obligated to abuse and ridicule him, not try to twist it into somehow being correct. Okay, maybe you could try a gentle nudge first, but if he continues, ridicule is the only appropriate response.

Chopra needs an infinite regression of spiritual hosiery inserted theoretically into the conscious and eternal being that is pretending to be his anus.

chopra is a snake oil salesman who uses beautiful words and metaphors in a silly nonsensical fashion to bring peace to people's minds. those words are metaphorical, beautiful and symbolic. that exploit a popular lack of mathematical or scientific understanding and a craving for something comforting.

the question is... is it doing any real harm?

i see the beauty in relating pi to the infinite. and the beauty of metaphorical souls. it's gorgeous and symbolic and hopeful and scientifically inaccurate. but is it doing any harm? chopra is not responsible for the failings of math and scientific education. i can appreciate scientific fact and mathematical constants AND spiritual metaphors.

we learn about mythology, fiction and poetry in school too. a humanities education is just as important. we don't have to be so accurate and measured all the time. we need metaphor.
people should just be more aware of when they're hearing facts and when they're hearing symbolism.

Then, as a professional communicator, he fucking needs to be clear that what he's saying is NOT fact. He does not do that...he tries very hard to present himself and his views as scientific. And that -does- do damage, in the same way and to the same degree that the creationist museum does.

Had he said "Pi is like infinity", or "The irrational nature of pi brings to mind the beauty of the universe" I'd have never said a word. But facts are facts, A is A, and Chopra is flat out wrong (or worse). And he ignores or fails in his duty as a communicator to communicate clearly and honestly.
>> ^peggedbea:

chopra is a snake oil salesman who uses beautiful words and metaphors in a silly nonsensical fashion to bring peace to people's minds. those words are metaphorical, beautiful and symbolic. that exploit a popular lack of mathematical or scientific understanding and a craving for something comforting.
the question is... is it doing any real harm?
i see the beauty in relating pi to the infinite. and the beauty of metaphorical souls. it's gorgeous and symbolic and hopeful and scientifically inaccurate. but is it doing any harm? chopra is not responsible for the failings of math and scientific education. i can appreciate scientific fact and mathematical constants AND spiritual metaphors.
we learn about mythology, fiction and poetry in school too. a humanities education is just as important. we don't have to be so accurate and measured all the time. we need metaphor.
people should just be more aware of when they're hearing facts and when they're hearing symbolism.

@Stormsinger:

You don't get it.

How can a number that has been used by civilized man to erect a civilization have no end?

You still refuse to admit that you do not know everything.

It's metaphor.

WTF? Are you now claiming that pi does have a finite number of digits? Or are you claiming that it's not used by men?

LOTS of numbers have infinite digits in decimal form, dude. As I mentioned before. 1/3, 1/7, 1/9, a vast wave of fractions don't have exact decimal representations. And that's not even getting into the other irrational numbers, NONE of which have precise decimal representations.

And you're still ignoring what I said...if it was metaphor, he should say so, not try to imply that he saying something scientific.

You know what a metaphor based on an error is called? An ERROR. Wrong is wrong, it's really that simple. Would you accept it if I said that 2+2=5 is just a metaphor? I certainly hope not, because it's just wrong.
>> ^rougy:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/Stormsinger" title="member since May 19th, 2007" class="profilelink">Stormsinger:
You don't get it.
How can a number that has been used by civilized man to erect a civilization have no end?
You still refuse to admit that you do not know everything.
It's metaphor.


I give up on this stupid broken quoting system. It works 2/3 of the time, then barfs up the rest. I guess I'll just stop quoting at all.

@Stormsinger:

You know the answer...

Give me that last digit.

Yes, lots of numbers have infinite digits, but few of them came to create a civilization.

Chopra is all metaphor, Stormslinger.

That was pretty easy to see, by me.



Or did you say
You can not play
Unless you know
My math mojo?

Because
If you did
Then you have skid
Into a place
Beyond this race

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

"superposition of possibility" that's a bunch of quantum flapdoodle. It bothers me when spirituality tries to borrow terms from science to sound more reputable.

Conversely- Science shouldn't borrow from religion. eg. the "god particle".

I read a few of the posts here after watching this, and then the one preceding this one, and it seems it's just a difference in language and meaning, Symbols. As a simple example, a person of Christian faith will be more likely to disagree with a scientific mind over the Earth's age precisely because they aren't using the same language, the same meaning behind their words, and therefore same standards! A simple retreat to the difference in method and goals would be much more meaningful. Nice sift, I think it really demonstrates the differences between Philosophy and Science and their ultimate goals.

Here's the thing: metaphor assumes you are aware enough to know that it is a metaphor. It doesn't need to be announced like a simile. A simile requiring a "like" or "as" slaps you in the face with context that what you are saying is not actually to be taken literally.

What did you expect, for Chopra to say, "By the way, what I just said. That. That was all just metaphor. Dummies."

We just have the problem of a philosopher reaching out passed what he knows. The thing about being a philosopher is it doesn't necessarily mean that you're qualified to have an educated opinion about everything. On the same token ANYBODY can be a philosopher, you just need to know how to look at the world and ask important questions. That's something scientists do every day...the only difference is, scientists actually have a trade where they're knowledgeable.

Scientists: 1
New Age BS Philosopher: -pi

It's 4.In reply to this comment by rougy:
@Stormsinger:

So, tell me the last digit in pi.

I'm in agreement with you on most things, just to let you know.

But I think you missed the point of his statement, and that's exactly what I was talking about in my post above.

What is the last digit of pi?

please watch the entire debate and then try to defend this crackpot
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EAAE2D3FFB6BCCA8
he's just spewing technobabble he heard on startrek to justify his nonsense

yeash, removed because the new quoting system didn't work right at all

>> ^rougy: How can a number that has been used by civilized man to erect a civilization have no end?



What? Have you never heard of rounding?
Our calculators seem to know pi out to enough places to get our work done...

*backup=[...snipped...]

Added alternate embed code for this video - backup requested by eric3579.

Replaced video embed code with backup #7065 (supplied by member eric3579) - embed replaced by member eric3579.