Their programming seems to be incomplete.

THAT was fascinating. How profoundly unreflective these people are. Gotta love that lady at the end too, she was so discombobulated by the fact that she was being expected to actually think about the consequence of her actions, she had to do a couple signs of the cross to make the bad thoughts go away! lol.

I can see this thread heating up real fast.

It would not have surprised me if they would have said: 'Death Penalty of course!'

Wow. Next time I see this kind of demonstration, I know what to ask them.

"Wow. Next time I see this kind of demonstration, I know what to ask them.!"

Remember that this guy had an agenda. The video he wanted to make was one showing pro-lifers as being a bit stupid. So i would expect most of them would have an answer if you were to ask them, He just didn't happen to show those ones in his video. Most people would just say "prison sentence".

Another question might be "how would you like the government telling you what you can and can't do with your body?"

i agree that you can edit a whole bunch of people and make the entire group look stupid, but this video was so perfect, I can forgive that.

These people were forced to come to terms with the fact that their simple sloganeering and gut reactions needed more thought. All of them seemed to realise "oh, shit, I just advocated sending rape victims to prison if they have an illegal and dangerous backstreet abortion"

The world is complicated, and I love it when fundamentalists and extremists are forced to think about that. This guy did a very good job of trapping them into actually turning their brains on instead of repeating things they read on leaflets in a kind of protest masturbation.

Whatever you think about abortion, this guy's good. It's the way they try to worm out of it that is so revealing.

I am sure there are plenty of prolifers who would confidently answer "prison" or "burning at the stake" or whatever, but they're not the target here. He is exposing the moderates who just enjoy protesting and being judgemental without realising their hypocrisy.

When she asked "who are you with?" he definitely should have said "i was sent by god" to really scramble her brains.

"I'm here because God called me here."

So, in other words, you're here because you're completely insane.

Googtube is right.

Like MOST youtube videos involving interviews, you're only seeing the most ridiculous answers. I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find a few pro-choicers who would like to extend the law to allow the termination of prematurely born babies. After all, they're the same age as those in the womb normally right?

I didn't think the interviewees came off as stupid. To me they came off as very caring and human. They all showed genuine concern for the mothers as well as the unborn children. I got the sense that maybe some of them had faced the same difficult choices or could at least empathize with those who had. I was impressed. And I'm strongly pro-abortion.

http://www.prolifeaction.org/about/joe.htm

"Is that your judgment or God's judgment?"

"Both"

Lovely. With the exception of the hardcore faithful, I wonder if a few of these people went home and started doing some hard thinking on the issue. They may come to appreciate some subtle shades of right/wrong instead of the black and white absolute judgment nonsense they've been fed. It's a great question.

Interesting video. I think it would be even more effective if he was a little less aggressive ... "You have been doing this 2 years and never considered the women" is unneeded and actually hurts the video; they speak for themselves better then any attack on them ever could.

Now sure these where cherry picked, but I have talked with some hard-core anti-abortionists and few seemed to have thought it through carefully (or barely at all for that matter). Most do seem to consider the women victims, favouring the doctor (or would-be doctor in the worst case) to go to jail but failing to consider that the women made a conscious choice. Most don't seem to give women much any credit, really.

The people interviewed were way too nice to that dufus behind the camera. Just shows that most pro-lifers aren't the wild, extreme nutjobs the liberal media makes them out to be.

I would've laughed in the guy's face and asked, "What if your mom aborted you?"
An uncomfortable silence would most likely have ensued...

It also tracks with the weird phenomena seen during Clinton's impeachment where people disapproved of his behavior, but did not necessarily think he should be punished for it. It drove the Christian Right NUTS that the more he was attacked, the more popular he became. This is a symptom of the basic decency for which Americans are (or once were) so well known. I think it's helpful to point out the dangers people get themselves into when they don't think things through. I don't feel abortion should be illegal, but if the guy had asked me, I would have replied, "Mandatory counseling," designed to help them get through the grieving process which wouldn't happen in a world of illegal abortions.

The point of any law that has been passed has been to make it illegal for doctors to perform abortions. The person breaking the law would be the doctor not the mother. The interviewer caught these people off guard and then trapped them by giving them a false premise. This video won't change anything, because it is illogical.

"The point of any law that has been passed has been to make it illegal for doctors to perform abortions. The person breaking the law would be the doctor not the mother."

Yes, and they've been written that way precisely because the assholes who write them know that even the fundies will balk at the thought of putting women who've had abortions in prison. Why? Apparently, even they don't know.

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i don't see why everyone making a documentary should have to include a 100% bona fide cross section of all people in the film. make your own documentary if you don't like the editing. it's not the news.

i dinnit watch it all.
But what i saw was rather sweet.
I'm curious if their demonstration was peaceful?

wow... the one that I saw as the extra big insanity was the girl that thought that "life in prison" was an ok possibility: when asked "if it's illegal, do you think some women would still have abortions?" it took her a long while to realize "yes".

Why do some idiots think that "making something illegal" means "that thing never happens"? I mean, we made weed illegal and now we have this wonderful pot-free country!

/sigh

just a reminder www.GODHATESSHRIMP.com
I wonder what should happen to people who break the old laws about people not eating shellfish.
hhmmm, next time I'm outside a seafood resturaunt I'll take a poll.
i guess my major problem with these peeps is that they don't advocate anything other than being against abortion.
meaning, no education or condoms to prevent abortions. no welfare or help after the kid is born.
sigh

I've certainly met people whom the world is so black and white that they would immediately reply that 'women who have abortions should be imprisoned'.

... primarily men, of course.

www.GODHATESSHRIMP.com is a parody of godhatesfags.com and godhatesamerica.com, both run by the Phelps clan.

There's also http://godhatesneworleans.com but that domain was bought up to prevent the Phelps from buying it. The page will re-direct you to the Red Cross site.

Well that was off-topic of me...

I don't understand why it was so hard for them to just say that they should be punished with a prison sentence.

That last woman - Jesus Christ.

I think I saw these people. I don't live in Libertyville or wherever but I am in Illinois. The people I saw had the same disgusting signs and same goofy shirts.

*doesn't have an opinion on abortion, because abortion isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the greater problem*

Did ya hear what President Clinton had to say about the Abortion Bill?

Ah thought ah paid it!

"Why do some idiots think that "making something illegal" means "that thing never happens"? I mean, we made weed illegal and now we have this wonderful pot-free country!"

nice logic! let's make murder legal, I mean, some ppl do it, right?



"i guess my major problem with these peeps is that they don't advocate anything other than being against abortion.
meaning, no education or condoms to prevent abortions. no welfare or help after the kid is born."

oh, so how exactly did you glean that information from this video? nice try, son. many pro-life organizations do more for expectant single mothers than anyone else (counseling, adoption, help with baby expenses, transportation, etc...)


"I don't understand why it was so hard for them to just say that they should be punished with a prison sentence."

Because as the ppl in the vid say, they've not really thought about it before. They're looking at the abortion issue from a prevention standpoint (making it illegal), not from a punishment standpoint (what to do with women who have illegal abortions, which at this point is of course strictly hypothetical.)

The sad thing is. I have an Aunt who is a professional protester. That's right. They get a call and say "Hey come hop on a bus to Whereverwecanbitch, Alabama. We'll pay for the trip all you have to do it shout on the capital steps for a couple of hours and then your free to party!"

What's even more depressing is that she sees it at a vacation. Doesn't mater what people are protesting she gets a free trip and all she has to pay is her dignity and a few hours of sign holding.

I would've laughed in the guy's face and asked, "What if your mom aborted you?"

I would expect no less from you bo. Instead of answering the question, you act like a child and try to throw an unrelated question back in an attempt hide.

Whichever side you're on, in all fairness, there's a difference between a rule for the sake of making something unavailable versus a rule for the sake of punishment. He avoids that distinction, which weakens his presentation (if the viewer is sharp enough to realize it).

"I would expect no less from you...you act like a child"

At least I have that opportunity. Aborted children sadly don't.

don't belittle the whole issue by throwing a general sweeping statement like that. Of course an aborted fetus won't have a chance to act like a child, and a child born male instead of female will never experience childbirth. Deal with questions asked instead sidestepping the issue.

I think some people who try to dismantle the pro-choice movement by applying the choice argument to other, real if you will, offenses need to give a second thought to the reason why women look to abortion.

In earlier posts I've seen the thought that prematurely born babies should be terminated aswell as the fetuses women choose to abort.
"I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find a few pro-choicers who would like to extend the law to allow the termination of prematurely born babies. After all, they're the same age as those in the womb normally right?". Wrong, but that's not the point.
To me, this looks like a person who haven't really considered why women decide to abort, and this person also doesn't seem to fully grasp the difference between a prematurely born baby and an undeveloped fetus, so let me try to explain my point.
A prematurely born baby is saved and kept alive because the mother did not have an abortion, obviously, but also because it's wanted and have developed enough to have a chance at surviving. You'll be surprised to know there are some fetuses who are so prematurely born that they're unable to survive no matter how much the parents would want it to. A woman having an abortion usually does so for a reason, of which there are plenty good enough to stop a life from starting.

Consider the reason before anything else, like the offspring of a rape, the parent/s being unable (for a plethora of reasons) to support the child in any or all ways. For these reasons women will have abortions regardless of the law, which makes it toothless and in effect meaningless unless of course you want to legislate morality (in which case we could come up with lots of fun laws).
In conclusion, I feel having a baby is a huge undertaking, and writing off abortion as murder is to me completely unacceptable. To make a similar stupid generalisation for everyone to ponder, torture comes in many more forms than just the ones used in Abu-Ghraib, like for instance raising a child in an unsafe, financially- and emotionally barren enviroment. I guess the sanctity of life ends when the child is born, eh?

"Deal with questions asked instead sidestepping the issue."

you never asked me a question, son

"I guess the sanctity of life ends when the child is born, eh?"

that's a good one

prolifers should maybe spend more time on contraception education than on shouting about murder. if they just dished out a few condoms they might have more effect, and show that they REALLY care about life, as opposed to caring about protests and self righteousness. How many prolifers would dedicate their whole life to caring for the unwanted product of a rape instead of just standing around with a sign on weekends?

Criminalising abortion just hands the industry to nasty people with dirty tools, it doesn't actually stop abortion. The comparison to homicide is not valid, it's just convenient for prolifers to equate abortion to murder when clearly they are not the same thing, with totally different motivations.

The government has the right to draft citizens to go and die in illegal wars, but a woman shouldn't be able to control her own womb?

I think there's priorities, and the "sanctity" of unborn children is below many other things on my list.

i have personal experience btw. but i'm not chatting about that here.

wow, a SIDESTEPPING-COMBO from Bill the Brilliant. WHAT A MOVE!!!

Our biggest enemy in the quest for decency isn't the people Bill may or may not be parodying, but the weak-minded, vacillating pro-life apologists who after so much dithering and soul-searching have dipped the scarcest tip of a pinkie into the waters of not-being-such-a-fucking-moron. All the while clinging to their totem-soundbite of "a woman's right to choose" they mewl and whine about the tragedy, necessary evils, so called "grey areas".

Right and wrong is not a matter of degrees. There are no grey areas, in anything, but especially for such a simple question as abortion. All human beings support either parent's right to demand abortion, for any purpose, including recreational, up to birth and beyond.

As for the monsters opposing your right to do as you please with your own property; there's only one appropriate use of a pro-lifer's time, and it isn't promoting contraception awareness. It is being nailed to a pole and set on fire. They. Are. Filth. Unutterable, incomprehensible abomination.

I used to live in Libertyville. This is NOT the presiding consensus of the area. It's not the "bible belt" at all. But as with anywhere else, you do have the kooks.

"How many prolifers would dedicate their whole life to caring for the unwanted product of a rape instead of just standing around with a sign on weekends?"

plz read my above posts, where I point out that right-to-life organizations do more for single mothers and their children than any pro-choice ppl would ever dream of. And I sincerely doubt pro-choice ppl care about the unwanted products of rape, as evidenced by their willingness to "destroy the problem" before it even comes to life, no pun intended

" wow, a SIDESTEPPING-COMBO from Bill the Brilliant. WHAT A MOVE!!!"

It comes from my videogame background, I was a decent Soul Calibur player


"As for the monsters opposing your right to do as you please with your own property... They. Are. Filth. Unutterable, incomprehensible abomination."

Ah, wielding the +3 sword of Flamebait, are we? That's sooo 2002...

you never asked me a question, son

I didn't say I had, I said "deal with the questions asked" in regards to your first comment which was to answer someones question with a question.

grspec: You won't get a straight answer from BO unfortunately. His mishandled attempt at showing authority (by referring to you as "son") points to a need to show his dominance; thereby proving an internal weakness and fear he shelters and compensates for. Besides, you won't change his way of thinking, just like he couldn't change yours or mine. Best to leave the deluded alone.

Although they are bigoted and self-righteous, it would be short-sighted to see these people as the enemy. We all have a role to play in the mess we've got ourselves in about the whole abortion issue. Be honest and tell me you've never had unprotected sex, or maybe once thought that single mothers were sluts or that the responsibility for contraception should fall on the woman/man or that people shouldn't abort, they should adopt, or that if they accidently get pregnant it's because they were ignorant or just plain stupid?

Ignorance and judgement abounds on this one, people.

ORLY: I find your lack of even getting the point hilarious:

"..meaning, no education or condoms to prevent abortions. no welfare or help after the kid is born."

Surely there's an easy way out of this question - the abortionist should be punished. Not the abortionee. Same as when kids buy cigarettes, the kids don't get punished (except by their mum's) but the shop can get in serious trouble.
(--view not supported by me... just seems a rather obvious answer to his question)

"See the concept of .. avoiding unwanted pregnancy in the first place."

I think everyone is for that, son (or kid/person/liberal/whatever I'm supposed to call you without trying to show my dominance--which of course we know doesn't exist on the internet due to its level playing field)


'...telling all the obese people in this country "don't eat too much"'

you've got some good advice there, I agree. eating less usually does result in weight loss...


Boy, 52 comments, this vid has all you kids/people/troglodytes all in a tizzy, it's quite entertaining

Well, I think I've successfully refuted everyone, I'll now take my leave confident that I've changed lives and the world in the process.

That was great.

Well, I think I've successfully refuted everyone, I'll now take my leave confident that I've changed lives..

In the mean time, post nascent humans are being killed right now, all over the world.

I know all you "Jesus loves fetuses" types don't like science, but here is a scientific study of your abstinence programs that backs up what I was saying:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6927733.stm

The latest study, which included trials comparing young people attending abstinence-only programmes against those receiving no sex education, raises questions over whether they work in developed countries.

Researchers found none of the abstinence-only programmes had an impact on the age at which individuals lost their virginity, whether they had unprotected sex, the number of sexual partners, the rates of sexually transmitted diseases or the number of pregnancies.

One trial did show a short-term benefit with participants reporting that they were less likely to have had sex in the month following one abstinence-only programme.

But the researchers said this finding was offset by six other trials that showed the programmes had no effect on the participants' recent sex lives.

Another trial even showed that participants in abstinence-only programmes were significantly more likely to report pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease, compared to participants using the usual services.

i said "how many?" prolifers adopt a rapist's child, that's a question, you could answer it with a percentage. of course i know that the answer is more than zero. but it probably isn't 100, right?

if you're going to tell someone else they should bring up an unwanted child, but not lead by example, then i can't really be bothered to listen to the other stuff you say. it's that serious, and that simple for me.

Where's the part where the pro-lifers help raise these kids? Mind your own fucking business thumpers...

I've known a decent number of adopted men and women. They wonder who their biological parents are and why they were put up for adoption, but I've never met one that would rather have been aborted despite their admitted possibility of having been the child of an unwanted pregnancy. Because of these people I've known, I've adhered to the thought of "pro-choice" for the child. If adopted life is so awful, let the "product of rape or other said unwanted pregnancy" decide to live or die. Taking that choice away is NOT "pro-choice", it's simply pro-abortion. (Although I can sympathize with a rape victim. I would consider that to be in the gray, allowable area in terms of law).

And in response to "would you adopt a child of rape?": First, yes, if I intended to adopt, I would have no interest in the conception or how it occurred (in answer to Mink... and many "pro-lifers" think as I do, those who don't need to re-evaluate things). That's not important genetically or otherwise. Anyway, this question is moot for the fact that that particular information would not be provided, and if I were seeking an infant for adoption, I wouldn't give a crap the means by which he/she was conceived. Huge numbers of couples who are incapable of conception would love to adopt infants.

That's just a damned silly argument. By identical logic we should ban contraception.

If that was aimed at me gorillaman, I don't understand your logic. I simply said I've never met anyone adopted who'd rather have been aborted. Contraception prevents conception by definition. I'm fine with that.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'interview, prolifers, lack of foresight' to 'interview, prolifers, pro life, lack of foresight' - edited by calvados

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this is crap, these people don't even know what they are doing. Typical half baked schemes to take over have the same effect. Epic fail.

The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
Repairing the Damage, Before Roe
http://www.truthout.org/article/details-pre-roe-bad-old-days
Third to last paragraph "The worst case I saw"...

Wow, this blows my mind. How can they not think about the penalty for breaking a law when they spend 2 years advocating to create that law?

Doc_M: I don't know anybody who wishes their parents used a condom, either. Early abortion is morally indistinguishable from contraception. Damaging the embryo so that it would be born without arms would be very bad, but there's nothing wrong with destroying an embryo. Its rights are moot until it develops into a sentient being. The brain of a flea has 200,000 cells, while the embryos involved in stem cell research have less than 200 cells.

Every time you swat a fly, that is worse than taking the morning-after "abortion pill".

I don't think anyone on the pro-choice side of the fence is "pro-abortion". I think any reasonable person on either side of the issue agrees that they should be rare things indeed.

The whole abortion debate usually gets sidetracked into a religion vs. science debate, and while on a philosophical level it's an argument worth having about when exactly in the reproductive process the mass of cells should be viewed as a person, it really only has bearing when we talk about compromises like limiting how late into a pregnancy abortion should be legal.

When we're talking in the context of an absolute ban, it more goes to a practicality issue -- if a woman is determined to abort a child, removing doctors from the equation isn't going to do anything except make the situation more dangerous for the mother.

I'm fully in favor of requiring any woman who wants an abortion talk to a counselor who tries to convince them adoption is the moral choice, but I think ultimately it's up to the mother, because it simply will be no matter what laws or penalties you put in place.

I think all the energy expended trying to ban abortion should be aimed at trying to prevent the unwanted pregnancies, through realistic sex education, and ready access to contraceptives.

When it comes down to it, parents don't get to decide when their kids have sex, they just get to decide how much information they have about it, and how easy it is for them to get contraceptives.

I disagree with any assertion that there is something wrong with, or any moral reason not to, have an abortion during the first 3 months of pregnancy. Women should not have to jump through hoops like parental consent or talking to a pro-life counselor before having an abortion, Netrunner.

^ You're right, I went off half-cocked about the idea of pro-life counselor, it should just be a counselor who lays out the options, and is supportive of the decision the mother makes.

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Ehhhh...

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