Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Kucinich tells it like it is again.

I agree with the gist of what he is saying, but the finger pointing needs to be aimed at the media and executive & legislative branches. He may mean that, but his tone made it sound like everyday Americans are responsible for spending bills and Israel foreign policy.

We are all responsible.

Suck it up and try to help. Talk about it with everyone you know, passionately. Explore all sides and feel the fear, pain, and guilt that comes with our position in this world. We are the privileged few.

In sixty seconds he said everything that needs to be said. Damn it sucks he doesn't have more influence. Sucks even more he's considered "fringe".

Unfortunately, like a lot of people, Dennis Kucinich has no idea what he is talking about. As an Ohioan, I am disappointed that he has held office for this long.

^ I like how you attack the messenger but fail to address anything specific in this video which you find inaccurate or misleading, so helpful you are, keep up the good work.
(this post seemed to work so good in another thread I thought I'd try it out again :-)

>> ^qruelthis post seemed to work so good in another thread I thought I'd try it out again :-)

My guess is that you're inadvertently fighting fire with fire. Isn't the internet awesome?

Israel can have my tax dollars, at least they defend themselves, unlike Hussein boy who'll let the terrorists trample all over America. Shoot, we'll prolly hafta ask Israel for help.

was hearing on the news this morning of reports that they got 100 people together and told them to stay in a building. then 2 or so days later started shelling it ;-/

(pretty vague info sorry, was heading out to work at the time) anyone else able to dig up any more info about it ?

thats pretty f***ed up if its true ;-/

why is it relivent if it is children thay r killing killing children is just as bad as killing adults.

*promote the sad, awful, *dark truth

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Thursday, January 8th, 2009 6:46pm PST - promote requested by kronosposeidon.

Adding video to channels (Dark) - requested by kronosposeidon.

"As an Ohioan", or do you mean as the type of person who doesn't mind a few dead children. Some of you ignorant, unempathetic, smartass trolls annoy the crap out of me.

I'd trade Kucinich for Obama any day.

>> ^blankfist:
I'd trade Kucinich for Obama any day.


I wouldn't, but I'd definitely love a hybrid of the two.

Someone who doesn't believe in UFO's or Jesus would easily get my vote.

^Yeah, the UFO thing is a bit much. Still, he was my favorite Democrat candidate. If he ran, I would've voted for him instead of Libertarian.

I'm sorry, but siding with EITHER side of this fight is stupid. BOTH sides are to blame. Israel is trigger happy and Hamas is willing to put civilians in the line of fire. Ultimately if you want to put blame somewhere, put it here: RELIGION.

Bullshit fairy tales which ultimately reinforce the idea that if someone is different than you, then it is okay to kill them in the name of some old guy in the clouds with a long beard.

Yesterday I was just kind of disturbed by the idea that it is way to easy to point blame at either side of this bullshit fight when in reality they are on the same side. The side of religion. Both sides adhere to identities based on made-up crap and I'm sick of it. I'm not saying that a world free of religion would be perfect, but clearly this is the prime example of how god probably doesn't exist. If there was an all-powerful god, he would probably have some uniformity in the way people worship him.

I think that a better title would be, "WAKE UP AMERICA! Hamas is killing children with your gas money!"

Blame religion

In this case that is not a logical or correct approach. The conflict in Gaza has very little to do with religion and more to do with racial and ethnic hatred. You can say that their religions are components of that, but religion is not to blame for this conflict. The Palestinians vs. Isreali conflict has aspects that are highly political. Blaming religion is inaccurate and simplistic.

I'm proud of my government.

I'm ashamed of my government.

I'm proud of my government.

I'm ashamed of my government.

I'm proud of my government.

I'm ashamed of my government.

I'm proud of my government.

I'm ashamed of my government.

I'm proud of my government.

I'm ashamed of my government.

I'm proud of my government.

I'm ashamed of my government.

Listen again. Kuchinch is not saying that Israel is wrong and Hamas is right; he's saying that Israel is wrong.

We all know and agree (I hope) that it's wrong to launch rockets into civilian areas. The reason someone has to say that Israel is in the wrong is that Israel promotes itself (and the US promotes Israel) as a democratic, law-abiding western-style country with respect for laws and human rights, whereas everyone pretty much agrees that Hamas is a terrorist organization. The reason nobody condemns Hamas in all of this is that we already know what they're made of, and we agree.

What might be news to some people is that Israel is just as bad. BOTH sides are currently committing war crimes for which there is no justification.

Wow, talk about histrionic titles.... geesh.

Look, if you want any Western strategic interests located in the heart of the Middle East, this is how it's accomplished. If the US didn't pay this money, they'd have less influence over Israel and the region as a whole. The money buys the US a spot at the table. It also buys the US a military presence, a proxy military, a military jumping-off point, and thus political pressure in the area. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is another discussion.

As to the current fiasco: it's war and it's not a new war. If this were the dark ages and the groups could fire weapons the distance of a football field or two, I'm sure the groups could live together. Given the small size of the country and the advancement of weaponry, it's far easier for for the Israelis to be harmed by state or non-state players.

Look at the current situation: Hamas in Gaza started firing rockets into Israel. Israel asked the world for help. No help came. Israel attempted to remove this enemy once and for all. The attacks wouldn't be a problem if we were in the pre-rocket days - catapult fire wouldn't travel far enough. Pity our advancement of "civilization", eh?

Is there a right or a wrong in this fight? Wow. That's a naive question. Both sides have a right to live in the area. What right? There are historic rights for both groups. Military rights, too, for the Israelis, since 1948 and reaffirmed in '67. Both groups also have political/lawful rights. The problem is that the groups can't seem to Just Get Along. That puts Israel in a pickle: they can't readily defend themselves from hostile fire from enemies, many of whom refuse to accept that Israel is a legitimate state. They can't get make those people move to other countries... not legally, anyway. That leaves them with their only legal option: defend themselves from attack.

The Palestinians this time are fighting against the war of attrition; being cut off. The Israelis are defending against the reprisal terrorist attacks. Enter the circle of violence.

Of course nobody wants the civilian deaths in Gaza; neither child nor adult. That said, if you choose to live in Gaza or the West Bank, there's no doubt you'll have terrorists (and I say "terrorist" instead of "freedom fighter" because Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO have have plenty of civilian blood on their hands) living with you. And if you have terrorists as neighbors, you'll have bullets as weather.

Hamas would take the fairly reasonable position that there are no civilians in Israel.

The Jewish population of Palestine shouldn't exist. However, the unfortunate fact is that it does and just because Israel was established by evil kikey land-stealing Zionist motherfuckers, doesn't mean their children don't have a right to stay in their own homes. Of course, most of the population are disgusting fascists who ought to be executed, but that's true of every country. So, here's a moral solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict in four simple steps:

1. Deport every Jew who isn't a native by birth or fair purchase of land. Fresh immigrants aren't a vast proportion of the population any more, of course.
2. Pitilessly punish those most directly responsible for the slaughter and oppression of the Palestinian people.
3. Call the whole place Palestine.
4. Establish a constitution to protect everybody's rights.

>> ^gorillaman:
The Jewish population of Palestine shouldn't exist.

The Jews have as much of a right to the land as anybody that's called Israel home in the past 5769 years. And that renders the rest of this, well, not exactly "moral" solution moot.

That said, I do like the idea of a constitution that protects everybody's rights. That's would be a good idea… except for the fact that the anti-Zionist population would ignore it and continue the reprisal killings regardless.

Got any other ideas?

>> ^oohahh:
As to the current fiasco: it's war and it's not a new war.

1. Israel's military equipment is provided by US taxpayers.

2. According to Geneva Convention Article 33 that no protected person (people who live in occupied territories count as "protected persons") may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed.

3. Israel's military is physically harming innocent civilians in Gaza.

1+2+3 = war crime committed with US dollars. That's the only point Kucinich was making. This is factual, independent of the history of the war.

I think the world just needs to carve a territory out of somewhere in the middle east and call it Palestine. Just like they did for Israel. Arbitrarily give them some chunk of land at least 2 miles away from Israel. The 2 mile buffer must be an uninhabited demilitarized zone. Put the Palestinians in this new country and never the twain shall meet again. Not realistic I know, but that's what needs to happen. There will never be a solution to this mess if the two people are allowed to remain in proximity to each other. They just need to 'moat' off Isreal from its terrorist neighbors and then any violence becomes a matter of internal Isreali security.

Who should give up the Territory? Two options depending on how you view it...

1. The United States should create a 51st state "Palestine" from its own territory. This is because the US was (primarily) the one that took away all the Palestinian land after WW2 and displaced its people. All the Palestinans get relocated to this New Palestine and it is ceded to them forever. Maybe we should give them Rhode Island...

2. Italy should create a new country "Isreal" from its own territory. This is because Isreal was destroyed by the Roman Empire which took away all the Isreali land, scattered its people, and turned it into Palestine. All Isrealis are are relocated to this New Isreal and it is ceded to them forever. Maybe they should give them Sicily...

Life is Beautiful.

Unfortunately for Americans, we need 100 Senators and 435 Congressmen, with the independence and American patriotic incite of Dennis Kucinich. Instead we have a Congress full of genuflecting hacks and idiots who bow to AIPAC and Israel instead of concern for an objective and fair USA.

There are many things you could call Kucinich. Lunkhead. Idiot. Moron. Toady. Skunk. Thief. Unprincipled. But "patriotic"? That's a stretch, unless you use the NeoLib definition of patriot which generally means "self-loathing traitor".

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
There are many things you could call Kucinich. Lunkhead. Idiot. Moron. Toady. Skunk. Thief. Unprincipled. But "patriotic"? That's a stretch, unless you use the NeoLib definition of patriot which generally means "self-loathing traitor".


Does anyone else smell socks?

Another powerwhine from the Keebler Elf of Kommunism.

The American left hates the free, self-sufficient country of Israel in favor of ragtag Arabs posing as a distinct people, who have contributed nothing but misery to themselves and the world.

The American left hates free, self-sufficient Americans in favor of ignorant drones who demand big government change their diapers.

A pattern?

^A pattern of logical fallacies in your arguments? Yes. False Dicotomy is the one you are using right now. You see, opposing Israeli violence does not equal supporting Palestinian violence. Needless killing of innocent people is a bad thing, no matter who pulls the trigger. I thought you conservatives were above this kind of 'moral relativism'.

^ ^Yeah, his screenname is the tell. Post Ironic trolls. Waddaya gonna do?

>> ^oohahh:
The Jews have as much of a right to the land as anybody that's called Israel home in the past 5769 years.

Are you really going to rate millenia-old hereditary land claims equally with the contemporary claims of living people, actually living on the land at the time? No, Israel is a stolen country, but as I said, you can't blame the present generation of Israelis for the crimes of their despicable parents. Their own crimes are ample enough, of course.

>> ^blankfist:
I'd trade Kucinich for Obama any day.


as would I, in a heartbeat

did you guys hear about those RIAA lawyers he appointed to his justice dept. It's sick, i loved the man when he was campaigning, but now I'm starting to second guess. We'll see what happens

>> ^gorillaman:
Hamas would take the fairly reasonable position that there are no civilians in Israel


So... if an Israeli infant dies in a rocket attack, it's justifiable?

I completely disagree that this position is "fairly reasonable". That comment's poster might not have been thinking of little kids when that bit was submittted (despite this sift's title), but if little kids are lumped in with other civilian casualties for whatever reason as being understandable, then the concept is quite frankly disgusting.

Same goes for Israeli-caused deaths of Palestinian toddlers.

Infants are non-combatant civilians and every one that dies in a military action is a cause for great sadness. Military actions can and will take the lives of children, but it's something to be avoided if at all possible, not something to shrug your shoulders at as you light the fuse to the rocket.

I'm fairly certain the poster is simply pointing out that all Israeli citizens over 18 are soldiers or reservists -- except for those with exemption for religious reasons.

Israel is in fact prosecuting the war in Gaza in a humanitarian way

Most liberal Westerners lack a more accurate paradigm in which to view the events in the Middle East. The modern, progressive, liberal democracy of Israel is not seeking to punish poor Arabs. Rather she is liberating 1.4 million hostages from the grip of 5,000 Hamas terrorist thugs.

Israel is fighting the Iranian proxy at its door step that also threatens the entire Middle East, Europe and North America as well. There are still more “battle grounds” in this war where the results are also tragic. But they were tragic for the good guys such as Mumbai, New York’s twin towers and Darfur, Sudan.

When idiotic dictators attack Israel, eventually she responds. The terrorist who rule Gaza invited disaster upon themselves and their captive, hostage, citizens. Their theologically inspired pathetic political philosophy is simply anti-Semitic and dangerously seasoned with immature fantasies of glory.

We in the West drink the feel good “kool-aid” of sympathy for pre-middle ages, totalitarian, apocalyptic, oppressive regimes. The drink is served by a willing liberal Western media who aid and abet our enemy in their pathological manipulation of the news.

Our challenge is to appreciate that Israel is in fact using many very benevolent means to alleviate the suffering that is going on in Gaza. Everyone knows a quicker, more efficient but unspeakable way to stop the Hamas regime. W.W. II ended with these methods.

But Israel is prosecuting a humanitarian method of warfare. The human cost of a few hundred or a few thousand deaths out of 1,400,000 Hamas hostages is the price Hamas is paying rather than simply stopping firing rockets across the border on to 1,000,0000 Arab and Jewish citizens in South Israel.

Rescuing hostages as I present here is dangerous and imperfect. But given the astoundingly stupid regime in Gaza aerial bombing and troop saturation is the better way.

Hamas Strategy:

1. Attack Israel…

2. Use human shields…

3. Cry: “victimhood”…

4. Encourage media…

5. Seek respite to rearm…

6. Repeat… #1 etc.

^

1. Create sock puppet account.
2. Make stupid comments.
3. Fade away into obscurity.

Calling you stupid would be insulting to stupid people, what are you one of those http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com readers?

Fucking idiots. Seriously.

The video is interesting. I never understood why America pays for Israel... but I think it's wrong to demonize Israel.
I think it was said very well that both sides are wrong. It is not based on religion, but religion is brought up to justify and brainwash certain people. I hate that it's referred to as a generalized "Israel" as opposed to saying the military or government. Israel justifies shooting at civilians by saying that there are no innocent people in Gaza. I've been raised in Israel, so I don't know to what degree I am biased, but I don't like people hating a generalized concept of Israel. I am an Israeli who wants peace, but I also want my friends and family that still live there to be safe. I don't know what the solution could be, to be honest I have lost hope for peace in Israel when I was a child.
After living in the US for a few years I have become more open with my liberal opinions. When I talk to my friends from Israel, trying to figure out the cause and peaceful solution, they start saying that no one is innocent there, and speak about defense. That is the mentality most people have there because most people have lost someone and survival is what we know. The threat to both sides is constant so it is hard to trust the other side to uphold their side of a peace agreement.

>> ^Farhad2000:
^
1. Create sock puppet account.
2. Make stupid comments.
3. Fade away into obscurity.
Calling you stupid would be insulting to stupid people, what are you one of those http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com readers?
Fucking idiots. Seriously.


What a terrible way to welcome a new member into our community! He was commenting on the issue at hand, which you childishly turned into a cursing and vicious personal attack - which is, of course, discouraged greatly by the TOS. But it's ok to for anyone to say what they want, unless it isn't in agreement with you, right?

I call them how I see them. Am not here to tolerate people's sheer stupidity.

>> ^Farhad2000:
Cry me a river CaptainPlanet420. Why so serious?


Look at the last word of your initial post, then I guide you to the edit button on the bottom right.

^ eat shit and die loser.

>> ^gorillaman:
>> ^oohahh:
The Jews have as much of a right to the land as anybody that's called Israel home in the past 5769 years.
Are you really going to rate millenia-old hereditary land claims equally with the contemporary claims of living people, actually living on the land at the time? No, Israel is a stolen country, but as I said, you can't blame the present generation of Israelis for the crimes of their despicable parents. Their own crimes are ample enough, of course.


Well, to be perfectly honest, Moses and co. took it off the heathens at the time (you know, the promised land), so even removing all selective time clocking and going back to ancient beginnings, the Jewish people never owned that land.

Seems sad that from 700 AD through to about 1890, the Jewish/Arab relations were relatively cordial. Jews were not considering equal per se but faced far less harsh restrictions than say non-Christians in the dark ages of Europe.

>> ^BruceStreet:
in fact ... prosecuting the war ... liberal Westerners ... accurate paradigm ... progressive, liberal democracy of Israel ... she ... is liberating 1.4 million hostages from the grip of 5,000 Hamas terrorist thugs...fighting the Iranian proxy at its door step ... the good guys ... idiotic dictators attack Israel ... she responds ... theologically inspired pathetic political philosophy ... dangerously seasoned with immature fantasies of glory... drink the feel good “kool-aid” of sympathy for pre-middle ages, totalitarian, apocalyptic, oppressive regimes ... liberal Western media who aid and abet our enemy ... pathological manipulation ... using many very benevolent means to alleviate the suffering ... prosecuting a humanitarian method of warfare.

Nothing to add, just felt like quoting some of this uber-dramatic freshman chiché soup.

The point that Kucinich was trying to make is not about the existence or rights of Israel and Palestine.

All he was saying is that the United States should not be involved when both sides are trying to massacre the other.

America's history of intervention is profound and self-centered. We don't care about Israel or the Palestinians. We care about ourselves. We care about our foothold in the region where we're fighting two wars.

We care about OIL.

Kucinich isn't stating anything about the fight between a nation and its minority population; he's simply expressing a desire to stop funding a war in which we should have no involvement.

Oh, if only I could down vote...my fingers would be so tired after this thread...

http://worldaffairs.videosift.com/talk/Obama-Backs-RIAA-with-150-000-Per-Track-Punishment

>> ^oinkinstein:
>> ^blankfist:
I'd trade Kucinich for Obama any day.

as would I, in a heartbeat
did you guys hear about those RIAA lawyers he appointed to his justice dept. It's sick, i loved the man when he was campaigning, but now I'm starting to second guess. We'll see what happens