An important fact. The Internal Affairs Group (IAG) is run by the Police Commission which is run by the Chief of Police (CEO) with a Board of Police Commissioners appointed by the mayor that act similar to a corporate board of directors. I shit you not, that's how they explain it: CEO and board of directors.

The IAG, which serves to investigate police misconduct is not only run by the same people who control the police, but it's also made up of members of the police force.

After Rodney King and the Rampart Scandal here in LA, a private, independent study was conducted on the mores and culture of the Los Angeles Police Department, which is commonly referred to as the Christopher Commission Report. I've read the entire document years ago. It's quite damning and worth a thorough read though it's incredibly difficult to locate online.

The Human Rights Watch Organization has "Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States" posted on their site with excerpts from the Christopher Commission Report. It's worth the read, especially these sections:

Internal Affairs Unit
Code of Silence
Disciplinary Actions
Investigations into Shootings
"Problem" Officers

There may be a number of incidents that are already on the sift included in this one, but this is the first time that I hear about the senseless shooting @ 17:00-26:00. The absurdity of what allegedly transpired and the blatantly falsified police report is fucked up beyond any order of magnitude of the occasional police misconduct. So much for "serve and protect". This is some seriously screwed-up dark stuff, so don't watch this video if you want to have a nice feel-good day

These people should be tortured to death.

although one of the most infuriating videos i've ever watched, to the extent where i actually wanted to cry all over my cat at points, it's important to note that this is basically 'The Best Of... Police Corruption' set to spooky music

a small percentage of human beings are fucking scumbags with no morals or respect for others, and very little brainpower; creatures who spend their lives tearing people to pieces for personal gain and hulk-smashing all that gets in their way. unfortunately, as with all professions, some of these slip through the screening process and end up fucking us all up the poop-chute whilst also wearing a police uniform, permanently warm taser in fist. they're just scumbags with badges and not the norm.

the real problem, as fuckfist points out, is at the top of the tree. the weasels that supposedly overlook the system on our behalf with as much competence as a wet fart, so precious about their targets that they turn a blind eye to all the bad eggs rolling around their basket in favour of a better report card for the year. who's watching them? fucking no-one. and that's why they continue to sit back, sign a few pieces of paper and play with their little winkles as their bank accounts fill with public money.

it's not the people on the ground i have the major problem with, although the cuntish minority as displayed in the video are beyond exasperating: it's the honchos who have the ability to (relatively) instantly make the changes necessary in order to better the system but either can't be bothered putting their necks on the line or are simply so incompetent that they wouldn't know how. get someone with both brain and balls at the summit and eventually the majority of these mindless scumbag cops - the twats that everyday people encounter - will have a hard time either staying in the force or getting there in the first place.

saying all that, i'm not dissing this video at all. it needs to be seen by as many as possible, as do all these violent cop clips, in an effort to instigate some kind of change. it just bugs me that we can't get footage of the commissioners/chiefs causing more damage in a plush office somewhere, from the comfort of their desks, bent phallus in hand.

>> ^sillma:
These people should be tortured to death.


No. The system ought to be fixed and they should be investigated and prosecuted by an independent body and charged and punished appropriately to the letter of the law, preferably the Constitution. You're America. You don't fucking torture.

Sure are a lot of rotten eggs in that salad. There are a few of them that I could defend (when civilians start yelling and further angering the cop), like the one with taser-mom elsewhere on vs, but the vast majority of these are deplorable and quite simply abuse of power. While people might say "Well, they're people too", the response is that they been goddamned trained to not be quick to anger and punish, they've been trained to uphold the law - fucking act like it.

Most of these are just school bullies with weapons.

Most of those people could sue the state (since they have evidence) and win lots of money.

>> ^EDD:
>> ^sillma:
These people should be tortured to death.

No. The system ought to be fixed and they should be investigated and prosecuted by an independent body and charged and punished appropriately to the letter of the law, preferably the Constitution. You're America. You don't fucking torture.


Aye, my anger got better of me, the hate that kind of imagery brews in me can get overwhelming now and then. The part where they murdered the guy who had the car accident was especially disgusting to me. Not the only one by any means, just the most angering.(I'm halfway through or so)

hmmm, sad

the video cuts off at 16:03 for me, both here and at the source - odd

DO NOT STAND BY when you see this sort of thing happen. All those bystanders are just as guilty as the cops.

Edit: in response to the conversation here; there is no legal way to re-mediate this situation. This is corruption from the top down. At some point these instances of force must be met with overwhelming force by ordinary citizens. If we don't stand for our rights now they'll only continue to erode.

The police only seem to attract those most power-hungry already. Most in the force aren't there to protect and serve, but to wield power and have authority.

One of the most important videos to watch if you're an American.

i'm pretty sure cops are bullies in every country
important for everyone to see, just as 1984 is to read



>> ^Truckchase:
DO NOT STAND BY when you see this sort of thing happen. All those bystanders are just as guilty as the cops.
Edit: in response to the conversation here; there is no legal way to re-mediate this situation. This is corruption from the top down. At some point these instances of force must be met with overwhelming force by ordinary citizens. If we don't stand for our rights now they'll only continue to erode.

and this would accomplish what exactly?
it would give them a perfect justification for mass manslaughter if it came to that
only way to beat them is by information, like what this video is
make it known in the public sphere and get independent watchdog organisations going
crush the myth that you're expected to fear and respect what is supposed to be YOUR servant and protector

I will agree most of the cops in the video are probably the minority, but what's disgusting is how the system is set up to protect and even encourage this behavior. If this was a video of just bad egg cops in the field abusing their power, I think we'd all assume this sort of behavior was the exception. But, look at Chapter 2: The Code.

Like a gang, they protect their own. When those guys with hidden spy cameras go into the various police departments and ask for a complaint form they're intimidated, bullied and harassed a lot more than I'd ever expect. Sure, in the field you can see how a "few bad eggs" would abuse their power, but in the actual department you'd expect there to be more accountability.

The desk cop greeting the public is assuming the role of department facilitator, not a law enforcer on the street pulling people over. And with all the other eyes on him (even their CCTV), you'd expect he'd be more willing to comply to simple procedures such as handing over complaint forms.

But, in every instance, they wanted to know the complainant's name and his home address so to bully him out of lodging a complaint against one of their own. In the Christopher Commission they determined police look at the community as obstacles when doing their duty. It's insane.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'street, gang, turf, respect, cops, thin blue line, the code of silence' to 'street, gang, turf, respect, cops, thin blue line, the code of silence, sickening' - edited by EndAll

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by EDD.

*doublepromote

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If the cops have more rights than you, then you live in a police state. Accept that fact, then do something about it.

Double-Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Monday, August 17th, 2009 7:30am PDT - doublepromote requested by kronosposeidon.

Disgusting. The good ol' boy network in full effect.

There's two sides to every story and unbalanced crockumentaries like this do a disservice to their own POV as well as the one they castigate by fanning the flames. There are bad eggs in every profession. Be sure to check out some prison vids and witness some of the animals cops have to put up with on a daily basis and you'll better understand their POV.

By these very loose definitions, even Congress is a gang. The federal government acts like the mafia all the time. Everyone 'protects their own', at every level, in every organization. How hard is it to get rid of a POS unionized government school teacher? Very.

Don't see why it should be such a shock that the po-pos protect their own. Whether good or bad, the law enforcement field requires being 'outcast' from society in order to police it. I don't envy the job; it's vital and not going away.

It's "normal" for this society to not respect cops anymore, which is disgraceful. Cops in uniform represent the law itself and should be respected for that EVEN if acting like jerks.

^That doesn't gel with your 'government is too big' shtick. I think you're breaking character.

Disgusting.

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Monday, August 17th, 2009 7:36pm PDT - promote requested by NordlichReiter.

I'd want blood for what they did to that woman.

My reaction is so visceral that to even describe how I feel: When I see these things take place, it opens my pores, dilates my pupils, and tenses my muscles.

But deep down inside I know that to fight back against tyranny is with out violence.

You must do every thing in your power to let them know how you feel, to make them understand so long as you do not violate another persons rights.

Remember: Ballot Box, donation box, Soap Box, and lastly only as a final resort when all hope is gone ammo box.

In these situations I see the Milgram's experiment, the bystander effect, and the Stanford Prison project all wrapped up into one bloody orgy of despotism .

Violence should be the first resort. Dead cops are harmless.

This post has been removed from the News channel by channel owner NetRunner. Please review the FAQ to learn about appropriate channel assignments.

So, I went about 20 minutes in before stopping. Is there ever an appeal to constructive action, or is this just anti-police fearmongering?

Edit: Apparently at the end they do provide some links:

http://blogs.myspace.com/boilingfrogs101
http://www.policeabuse.com/
http://www.copwatch.org/
http://www.ratemycop.com/
http://www.flexyourrights.org/

*documentaries

Adding video to channels (Documentaries) - requested by NetRunner.

>> ^NetRunner:
So, I went about 20 minutes in before stopping. Is there ever an appeal to constructive action, or is this just anti-police fearmongering?


I think there was a disclaimer at the very beginning of the video for people like you.

^ Unlike you, I don't really get off on this kind of stuff. If there's not a larger point being made, I reach a point where I've had enough of subjecting myself to ugliness. I'm aware that some cops do awful stuff. I don't really need to see an hour-long review of the greatest hits.

I'd rather it be coupled with some sort of analysis and larger commentary on the issue. All I was seeing was just a series of images meant to provoke horror and disgust, without any attempt to channel it towards something constructive (unless you count the few seconds of text at the very end). If I just lost patience before getting to that part let me know what timestamp they start with that part, and I'll watch it.

I really want to be on your side with this, but I'm getting the feeling this is more about ideology than it is about trying to solve a real issue with police brutality.

For example, are you suggesting to people watching this video that they read the Christopher Commission's recommendations for reform, and start calling their representatives about getting them implemented? Or are you saying "no reform will help, except if everyone is afraid of government in every form, especially police, maybe then we'll have a modicum of safety!"

If you're thinking that this is "proof" of some overarching ideological point about government being an intrinsically evil concept, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel of propaganda to try get that idea across.

^

[edit] The frowny face, FYI, is because to most people I'd hope watching this video isn't about getting your rocks off, but rather an educational process. Not all education is about result. A lot of it is about processing and reevaluating.

this video brings a whole new meaning to "fuck the police"

"An important fact. The Internal Affairs Group (IAG) is run by the Police Commission which is run by the Chief of Police (CEO) with a Board of Police Commissioners appointed by the mayor that act similar to a corporate board of directors. I shit you not, that's how they explain it: CEO and board of directors."

Perhaps they describe themselves as a corporation, because... wait for it... they ARE A CORPORATION. That and nothing more. The municipalities are SIMPLY PRIVATE CORPORATIONS, organized under the authority of larger corporations (STATES), who are under the control of the largest corporation known as the UNITED STATES which is ultimately privately owned by the International Monetary Fund. People, please wake up before it's too late. They are not your 'government'. This crap didn't start in 1776. (Here's a hint, start looking in 1871 for the Organic District of Columbia Act.)

So, if they are not your government, and they are a private corporation, (think of them as a very large WALMART), then what authority do they have over you? It depends. Are you an employee or other member of that corporation? Do you have a Social Security Number? Did you READ THE FREAKING CARD!? IS IT YOUR CARD!? OR IS IT THEIRS!?!?!

If you're going to act as an officer of the corporation, stop pretending that as an officer, you have any "God-given" or "constitutional" rights. That's baloney. If you are an officer, all your rights are created by that office. Period. Oh, and by the way, this massive corporation was created LAWFULLY. Their existence is legitimate. To counter any (perceived) injustice, it must be done LAWFULLY (not through murder and mayhem).

If you are looking for just government, look within. Learn who you are. Freedom is self-control. Self-governance. Nothing more, and nothing less.

I hate to say it, but the problem isn't them. It's you. It's me.

Begin your studies at www.TeamLaw.org.

Holy crap, thanks for posting, really messed up stuff, understandably some abusive cops do not reflect the true nature of all. But, the park arrest - wtf, that is seriously messed up!

Oh and police around the world aren't necessarily like this - the cops who tazed and shot a bleeding burnt crash victim....should be jailed. I don't care if they don't understand why, what they did was despicable.

'I kept thinking, I don't want that man near me...' 'if he had complied I started to think...what then?'

It's a shame the system is broken to what it is now...and worst too many people will simply assume 'they must have done something to warrant an arrest, being shot, tazed etc' hopefully Youtube etc will make this more and more difficult for abusive cops to get away with this.

But I doubt it

God this doesn't happen too often, but I do have to upvote QM on a few points.

First, don't get me wrong, the incidents in this video are absolutely disgusting and I've definitely had my own run-ins with police who have flown off the handle when I've tried to be polite. Police brutality is real and serious. I also don't agree with QM that the police need to be respected no matter what they do. If police cross the line, they need to be responsible for their actions.

That said, claiming that police as a whole are a "street gang" is hyperbole. I know a lot of cops myself and while there are definitely incidences of bad behavior, there are also amazingly benevolent and wonderful officers who actually do believe in a code and do their best to be there for the people they serve and protect.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't a serious problem in America (and elsewhere) with the type of people who seem to be drawn to law-enforcement, but bunching them together and calling them a street gang is tantamount to saying that everyone who lives in Iraq is a terrorist or hates America. It is a generalization and as we all know, generalizations don't encompass a totality.

QM point about government is very similar. There are many in government who act out of their own self-interest and work to pad their own pockets at our expense. Still, referring to our government as a mafia-type organization is the same kind of exaggeration.

We definitely need to condemn the actions in this video, encourage others to see it, and hopefully follow through with real and impartial investigation whenever something like this happens. But labeling the whole profession as illegitimate doesn't send the right message of rational consideration.\

Now, if we could only get QM to use this part of his brain more often when referring to us hippie, prius-driving, tree-hugging, atheist non-worshipping, liberal-knee-jerk-democratic-communists!

all the policemen and women involved in the scene around the 12 minute mark should be removed from the gene pool, and better yet add everyone who can defend such acts

and frankly, I cant watch anymore of this

sick

Documentaries like this always bother me on two levels. The first is the obvious outrage at seeing the worst of things that people do to each other. The second thing that bothers me is the people that use it to reinforce their own personal stereotypes. In this case plenty of posters have already made it clear that this video proves that police are bad human beings and this video is proof. Please remember that is exactly the same thing KKK members say about black people when they point to a few rapes that were committed by gangs that happened to be black. The scum in this video are no more representative of police as a whole than ethnic gangbangers are representative of their respective races.

>> ^blankfist:
The frowny face, FYI, is because to most people I'd hope watching this video isn't about getting your rocks off, but rather an educational process. Not all education is about result. A lot of it is about processing and reevaluating.


Wikipedia's description of education:

Education in its broadest sense is any act or experience that has a formative effect on the mind, character, or physical ability of an individual. In its technical sense education is the process by which society deliberately transmits its accumulated knowledge, skills and values from one generation to another through institutions.

Propaganda is communication aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.

^ Bravo and well said.

@quantumushroom

As soon as unionized teachers are allowed to taser and /or shoot students for discipline, then we'll talk. Until then, we are talking about apples and oranges.

Yes, it's natural for groups to protect "their own", but as soon as a member of any other group EXCEPT for the police and high-level politicians breaks the law, then his ass in a sling. So the "group" defense doesn't hold water.

@NetRunner

How many police departments did they visit to ask for a complaint form, only to be harassed? How many thousands and thousands of complaints do police departments get each year, compared to the number of police officers officially disciplined each year? Those were both in this video. Are those propaganda, or facts? Was that educational, or merely provocative? If you're still leaning towards labeling this as propaganda, then virtually every pro-Democrat video you've posted here would be considered the same thing and nothing more. Not newsworthy, not educational, just propaganda, because certainly your political videos aren't laying out every single fact relevant to the story. Those omissions could be considered deliberate distortions by some, right? And by posting your pro-Democrat videos so you're trying to change attitudes to advance a political agenda. Sounds like propaganda to me.

UNLESS, education itself can also change attitudes. That surely happens all the time, doesn't it? I know a lot of my attitudes changed about many things with the more education I received. I think many others feel the same way. I think this is educational, even if it does provoke emotions. How couldn't it? How can anyone see so much brutality and NOT be moved? Facts can make one angry, that's for certain. Education isn't always about what's learned in the ivory tower. So I think it's a bit of a smear to imply this is "propaganda", as well as saying that blankfist gets off on it.

You know I'm left-leaning and generally pro-Democrat, but to imply this video is propaganda is just wrong, IMHO.

^How many 'good' police officers did they show in the video? How many officers did they interview for their opinions on the abuses in this video?

Or perhaps more simply:
How many police officers did they show abusing their power and breaking the law?
How many non-police officers did they show abusing their power and breaking the law?
How many police officers did they show who were NOT abusing their power and breaking the law?

The respective answers to those questions make the propaganda/education distinction as clear as it could possibly be.

The posts in this thread railing and pining for the days that all the cops are dead or gone makes it clear the propaganda found at least a few sympathetic ears that got the full message. Cops are evil and do things like what is shown in this video and that is why you should hate them.

The first and last chapters are certainly propaganda. The middle chapter about the complaint forms was new, and could have been used as part of education, but was used as the final product instead, so it too was just some more interesting propaganda.

Still, upvote for the best "best of" cop violence vid I've seen.

Most filmmaking (amateur or otherwise) is propagandized and politicized. Michael Moore documentaries come to mind. I'm sure if this was an excerpt from Sicko, NetRunner's position would be it is educational and would use wikipedia to bolster that opinion as he has used it to denigrate this video.

I have to ask why NetRunner is so vocally opposed to this video? Is it merely because it's sensational, or is it because it is suspicious of the authority of the police?

This video is still educational. It's the complaint form section in chapter two that is most shocking to me.

holy shit at 15:50

i never saw all of that before. that was a murder.

Yeah I agree that the clips where people were abused by police are difficult to know if they are accurate or one sided. However The chapter two segment where police are denying people complaint forms is really messed up. This needs to be shown more and people need to hear this.

Like I said, I didn't watch the whole thing. I stopped at 20 minutes in because it was just a long series of cops behaving badly, with no attempt to provide context, or even articulate a point.

If we want to compare this to Sicko, I happily welcome the comparison. Sicko certainly came right up to the edge of propaganda with it's cherry-picked visuals, and the way it tugged at your emotions.

But Sicko provided statistics to put the cherry-picked visuals into context. It didn't ascribe evil motives to anyone, even the health insurance companies. It tried to show what the problems are in the US, and then show whether those same issues exist elsewhere and finding that they did not -- to the point where people there would laugh and say "we're not the United States".

So while Sicko did pull at the heartstrings, it wasn't unrelenting about it. It did cherry-pick events, but it tried its best to put things in perspective. It also pointed out what kinds of solutions have been used elsewhere to solve the issue, and ultimately called people to act in a positive way to try to address the issues explored in the film. Above all else, it didn't try to make anyone, even the insurance companies, out to be some sort of bad guy worthy of hatred.

I saw no signs of any of that here.

If they got around to that in the back 40 minutes, let me know.

Oh, and as to why I'm "so vocal" in speaking out about it, it's because I stick my head into the American echo chamber for 6 hours each day, and I'm hearing plenty of inducements to violence these days. Yes, everyone's being careful to avoid any kind of legal problems with inciting violence, and they're trying to couch their divisive fear-mongering as legitimate, protected political speech, but the message they want people to hear is clear: THE FASCISTS ARE COMING, GET YOUR GUNS READY.

The last thing I care to see is video trying to incite more fear, and spreading a narrative of authority out of control, in the hopes that good and righteous people will do something about this terrible police state we're living under.

Seriously. Either try to get people involved in a constructive, non-violent effort to combat the problems you see, or just call for a violent revolution already. I've had it with this attempt to do the latter while pretending it's the former.

^Bwahahahaha... what?! Sicko only came to the edge of propaganda? Did we watch the same movie? You're the master of Democratic spin, brother. I'll give you that. You are relentless.

"I stopped at 20 minutes..." And you speak so fervently against it even though you refused to watch the whole thing. And you also happily skipped to the very end of the video so you could post the links from it? Mmmhmmm.

"I stopped at 20 minutes..." And you speak so fervently against it even though you refused to watch the whole thing.

I haven't read all of Mein Kompf either, but I'm pretty comfortable speaking fervently against it.

@bcglorf:

I'm not saying most cops are as bad as these, HOWEVER most police officers know who the abusive and/or dirty cops are in their department, and yet they do nothing about it. That's "the code of silence" for you. And that makes them accessories after the fact. So even if most cops aren't abusing their authority, they're still not protecting and serving the public when they let the shitheels in their departments get away with their misdeeds. So they share the guilt.

@NetRunner:

I saw 'Sicko', and Michael Moore certainly did try to make the insurance companies look like the bad guys. And to me that's fine, because they are one of the bad guys, IMHO.

At the end of this film the maker did list several resources to help combat police problems, yet you casually dismiss that. Michael Moore ended his film by carrying a laundry basket up the stairs of Capitol Hill. I enjoyed the point he was trying to make, but who was really being more constructive in their closing statements?

I don't see this film as a literal call to arms. I see it raising awareness (i.e., educating) through specific cases and documentation, and I see this method as being very valid. You can look at the problem of police brutality academically if you want, and that's fine. But it also helps to look at the individual cases. Look at what doctors do to stay up to date: They read research, but they also read case studies. You can't say that medical case studies are irrelevant. And neither are the brutality cases shown in this film. So read the Christopher Commission report if you want (and that's good), but I also think this video should be required viewing. To ignore this is to say something like the only history that is valid is found in official documentation, and not the stories of individuals who are a part of that history. And I know historians use every source available to tease out the details of what was really going on at any point in time, including the writings of individuals.

I'm just as aware of blankfist's libertarian beliefs as you are, but I don't think that should factor into what YOU take away from this video. I'm still a liberal. I still believe in universal health care. I still believe that not a single person should have to worry about going hungry or becoming homeless. I still believe in free education for everyone, all the way through college. And I also believe in human rights. And when I see them stripped away by bad cops, it makes me angry. I want to know about it, even if the details are horrible, and I also want to know what I can do help stop it. That's what I took away from this video.

This shouldn't be a partisan issue. When someone breaks the law, regardless of his or her occupation, there should be consequences. What's so controversial about that?

>> ^kronosposeidon:
I'm just as aware of blankfist's libertarian beliefs as you are...

By now, I'd hope so.

I'm not saying most cops are as bad as these, HOWEVER most police officers know who the abusive and/or dirty cops are in their department, and yet they do nothing about it.

Well, that's YOUR opinion of most cops. This video makes absolutely 0 effort to provide any information or context for how wide spread any of the abuses are. Actually, it goes further and actively tries to make the abuses seem more widespread than they actually are.

As far as I'm concerned the line between documentary and propaganda is the line between trying to educate people with the truth, and trying to educate people to see things the way the producer sees the truth. This video clearly makes every effort to leave out any and all information and video that could possibly provide any other context but the one desired by the producers.

If this were an hour of video showing any other group of people committing the same crimes and abuses nobody would even attempt to tolerate it. As I said before, the KKK used to make frighteningly similar videos, just substitute the police officers with African Americans and the civilians with white folks. If this video can that easily and simply be converted into what is recognized as the worst kind of hate mongering, surely to goodness more people on here should see it for what it is!

Alright, I'm done.

I've had it with these types of videos.
Thousands of cops are doing their jobs properly, thousands more do it because they like keeping the peace. A fraction of them do something stupid, and suddenly ALL cops are bad?
Seriously people, where would you be without a police force, good or bad.

You know why shit like this is happening? Lack of respect for the officers in question.
Before, if cops went up to a car, and said "You were doing 60 in a 40" the driver would say "Okay, won't happen again" take the damn ticket, and drive away.

What's happening now is that people feel they've somehow been wronged by the law that's been protecting them for years, instead of accepting the ticket and driving along, they decide the best course of action is to argue with the cop.

Why?

Arguing with any form of authority figure is a stupid idea, would you talk back to your boss? your supirior? your principal? your parents? all of those people in one way, shape, or form have some form of control over you at one point in time. The difference? They're not the ones making sure people aren't speeding in school zones, aren't driving while intoxicated, aren't causing a menace to society.

You can hate the man, but at least respect the badge. The bottom line is, if you got pulled over, you were doing something wrong in the first place. Look at some of the videos here about "Police Brutality" 90% of these situations could be avoided by not doing something wrong in the first place.

Now, picture this is you. You've pulled someone over for speeding along a deserted road. You get out of the car, go up to their window, and ask for the License, Registration, and Proof of insurance.
They instead say "I didn't do anything wrong, no." You once again ask for their license and registration, this time, annoyed, they give it to you and you walk back to the car.

You type the plate number into the onboard computer, and while it's getting the information, the driver decides to get out of the car. He's clearly glaring at you, and approaching you. You ask them to get back in the car, and the refuse, and start talking back to you saying that "This is stupid, I'm not accepting the ticket" you again ask them to get back into the car and they refuse, and start approaching you again.

You now have very few options left.

Because this person is not doing what they're asked, you can:

Continue to allow them to approach you, with no idea what possible concealed weapons they have on them, be it a firearm or knife, and keep asking them to get into the car, which they continue to refuse.

Or

You can take out your tazer, and demand they get back into the car, or on the ground, saving potentially both of you from harm if they then comply.

Now, let's say you took option 2...

Why does it take the threat of force to get them to do what they're asked?

Now, some of you can see my point on this already, and for those that are still saying "That's a stupid plan, the cop should've allowed the man to approach in the first place, he shouldn't have drawn the tazer"

The only thing I have left to say to you, is the way that this entire thing could've been avoided...stay put in the car, stay quiet, and just give what they asked. The cop would've driven away, you would've driven away, and if you still felt there was no reason for you to get that ticket, go to court, demand all the information about the event (Dash cam footage, ect) and fight it.

There's no reason that scenario should've come to needing to use any form of threat or force in the first place.

Edited for dupe purposes

I'm glad you posted that comment twice, so I can downvote it twice.

>> ^blankfist:
I'm glad you posted that comment twice, so I can downvote it twice.


Yes, I obviously purposely posted a long comment twice within two minutes of itself for dramatic effect. @_@

>> ^Shepppard:
>> ^blankfist:
I'm glad you posted that comment twice, so I can downvote it twice.

Yes, I obviously purposely posted a long comment twice within two minutes of itself for dramatic effect. @_@


That'll do pig. That'll do pig.

I can't watch it.

If i knew a reasonable amount of self defence abilities, i'd become a vigilante, batman-esque, chasing down the people who do these kinds of things to other people in the name of "law", and making them pay for it in the only way that would ever be a full and complete penance for doing those things.

Don't kid yourself, a thorough investigation and necessary penalties will never happen. The best you can hope for is a token gesture, the illusion of investigation and penalties. This will happen forever as long as we give people a power above other people. Mark my words and remember that i said it. There is no solution that isn't worse than the original problem.

And shepppard, my poor deluded friend, you are applying the same blanket values that your OPENING STATEMENT criticises. The actions of a few bad eggs should not reflect on the greater cause.

In your own words:

So there are millions of people, every day, abiding by the law because they don't want to go to jail. Millions more because they are nice law abiding people. A fraction of them feel like the law wronged them and decide to argue with the police, and suddenly police brutality is justified?

I couldn't even read beyond this colossal, glaring and fundamental contradiction.

Are people REALLY upvoting that comment? Does this website require leaving your brain at the door when you log in?

>> ^kronosposeidon:
This shouldn't be a partisan issue. When someone breaks the law, regardless of his or her occupation, there should be consequences. What's so controversial about that?


Perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm not saying this isn't an issue, I'm just saying that this is a dangerous way to go about addressing it.

Going back to Sicko, what if Moore had instead filled his film with people from insurance companies, who felt quite righteous about denying people's claims? Maybe toss in some secret video of clerks violating existing laws about discrimination. Cut to lots of film of people getting told they can't get a life saving treatment because they can't afford it. Maybe just an endless succession of people who lost their homes because of medical expenses. Then a long succession of people who're alive but gruesomely crippled because they couldn't get proper treatment. Cut back to CEOs explaining how that's necessary for them to stay in business, maybe entice one to say that people who can't pay don't deserve care, or just rant about how this is the American way, and to do otherwise would be socialism. Then cut to the life of excess the CEO's live. Then show people talking to Congressmen about the issue and getting stonewalled.

Close with a link to charities that provide free medical help.

Never mention other countries or the politicians putting forward the single-payer bill.

Wouldn't that be a very different kind of film? It'd still be coming from a very liberal point of view, but the main takeaway would be how the evil selfish capitalists are making huge sums of cash with their murder by spreadsheet, and that the Congress is in on the scheme.

If the liberals were also well-known gun enthusiasts, and Keith Olbermann was coming on every night on MSNBC and saying AHIP = Hitler, over and over and over, wouldn't you think twice about spreading a film like the bizzaro-Sicko I described?

That doesn't gel with your 'government is too big' shtick. I think you're breaking character.

It IS too big, but even if it wasn't, the States and cities will always have police. The libertarian is in some ways as divorced from the realities of human nature as the statist. Expecting perfect police is one of those ways. If drugs and hookers were legalized tomorrow, you'd still get pulled over for speeding. (I wouldn't because I'd be sober at the local brothel)

It's good to be outraged at injustice, but this piece is simply a waste of time except as evicence in individual courtrooms. Something you may not have considered: other cops who have watched this may have been just as repulsed by the abuse, and I would think THEY have a better understanding of what's going on in these vids.

QM point about government is very similar. There are many in government who act out of their own self-interest and work to pad their own pockets at our expense. Still, referring to our government as a mafia-type organization is the same kind of exaggeration.

The term "federal mafia" can only be used semi-jokingly. Due to simply ignoring the Constitution the past 60 years (and at times before then) the feds are no longer kept in line by anything other than public opinion, which makes the USA a mobocracy.

Now, if we could only get QM to use this part of his brain more often when referring to us hippie, prius-driving, tree-hugging, atheist non-worshipping, liberal-knee-jerk-democratic-communists!

I have nothing against hippie, prius-driving, tree-hugging, atheist non-worshiping, liberal-knee-jerk-democratic-communists, except when they want NON hippie, prius-driving, tree-hugging, atheist non-worshiping, liberal-knee-jerk-democratic-communists to pay for their folly with others' $$$ and freedom above and beyond reasonableness.

>> ^dannym3141:
And shepppard, my poor deluded friend, you are applying the same blanket values that your OPENING STATEMENT criticises. The actions of a few bad eggs should not reflect on the greater cause.
In your own words:
So there are millions of people, every day, abiding by the law because they don't want to go to jail. Millions more because they are nice law abiding people. A fraction of them feel like the law wronged them and decide to argue with the police, and suddenly police brutality is justified?
I couldn't even read beyond this colossal, glaring and fundamental contradiction.
Are people REALLY upvoting that comment? Does this website require leaving your brain at the door when you log in?


Whem did I EVER say it was justified?

You know what I said? "Police Brutality" 90% of these situations could be avoided by not doing something wrong in the first place.

Because you didn't seem to get my point, what I'm saying, is that if you look at a lot of those videos that have the "Shocking police brutality" headlines, they could have been avoided by either A) Listening to the cop and doing what they said, or B) Not doing something wrong in the first place.

Two that come to mind, The mom being tazered, and the girl tazed in the head. Now, by no means is what i'm saying justifying the actions, but if the mom had just stayed in the car, she would've been fine. If the girl had just either gone to the police station, Not walked away from the cop, or even not struck her mother in the first place, she would have been fine.

I'm not advocating police brutality, and never will, but some, if not most of these situations could be avoided by people just doing what they're asked.

>> ^NetRunner:
Going back to Sicko, what if Moore had instead filled his film with people from insurance companies, who felt quite righteous about denying people's claims? Maybe toss in some secret video of clerks violating existing laws about discrimination. Cut to lots of film of people getting told they can't get a life saving treatment because they can't afford it. Maybe just an endless succession of people who lost their homes because of medical expenses. Then a long succession of people who're alive but gruesomely crippled because they couldn't get proper treatment. Cut back to CEOs explaining how that's necessary for them to stay in business, maybe entice one to say that people who can't pay don't deserve care, or just rant about how this is the American way, and to do otherwise would be socialism. Then cut to the life of excess the CEO's live. Then show people talking to Congressmen about the issue and getting stonewalled.

Close with a link to charities that provide free medical help.

Never mention other countries or the politicians putting forward the single-payer bill.

Wouldn't that be a very different kind of film?


It would. I don't think he did that because of two reasons. First, he wanted to show the other countries with national health care and the politicians pushing health care reform because it further helped with his propagandized message. Second, and this is the most important aspect, Michael Moore is a professional filmmaker with the budget to hire a film crew and shoot interviews with politicians and travel to the other countries.

The people who made this video probably cut it on iMovie or Window's Movie Maker using FLVs they downloaded from YouTube. These guys are unknown, amateur filmmakers with a budget that was most likely nonexistent.

If these amateur filmmakers had the financial ability to hire a film crew, coordinate interviews, make a shot list they could afford to shoot, and pay for the post process to go back to a 35mm print like Michael Moore can with his docus, then this could've been a very different piece of filmmaking.

It's ignorant to compare content via the editing process like you just did, because it's not just about what you cut to... it's about what you can afford to cut to.

The people who made this video probably cut it on iMovie or Window's Movie Maker using FLVs they downloaded from YouTube. These guys are unknown, amateur filmmakers with a budget that was most likely nonexistent.


Oh, so as long as you don't have a big budget it's okay to promote hatred with the way you edit your video? I suppose it would be just as fine for me to put together a whole hour of clips with Jews beating and killing non-Jews? Well, I know some might not object to that actually.
How about an hour of Arabs beating and killing non-Arabs?
How about an hour of African American's beating or killing white people?

What exactly is so hard about this to get through to some people? Why is it so easy to ignore something inciting hatred when people feel that hate is justified.

^At least NetRunner's comments make some semblance of sense and are decently coherent and thought out.

From this day forward you will be dubbed NetRunnerLite.

It's funny, I was going to put up a big billboard saying:

"Help Kill Ron Paul's bill to Audit the Fed. Call Your Congressman Now!"

But that cost too much, so I shortened it to:

"Help Kill Ron Paul Now!"

I'm sure people will be fine with that. I had a budget constraint!

^That's pretty good! But you're targeting someone who isn't stealing from you or trampling on your rights. That would be wrong, no? But I suppose the lines between tyranny and freedom are blurred when you're a card toting authoritarian statist.

At least NetRunner's comments make some semblance of sense and are decently coherent and thought out.

If you can't follow I'm comfortable with that.

Be careful by whom you are considered sane.

^ I'm just trying to educate people! I don't know why anyone would think I was trying to "target" anyone!

Just because I show an endless loop of people named "Ron" beating, raping, and murdering people doesn't mean that I think all people named Ron need to be stopped by any means necessary.

No! I'm just a simple filmmaker trying to get the truth out to people about Rons. I know it will take a lot of processing and reevaluating, but sometimes that's just how education works.

I would give you some information about peaceful efforts to try to bring them to justice, but I'm on a budget, so instead I'll give you a link to some sites that collect Ron horror stories for all to see.

Maybe the next film can blow the lid on Mexicans. Or Muslims.

Eh, I'm beating a dead horse, I think you get my point.

Let's not kid ourselves about this being educational. Shocking, and deeply troubling, but it's designed to generate heat, not light.

It'd be good to try to channel the heat into something positive, rather than let it just fester.

Um. Okay?

I really have to disagree with the burn victim scene, that has propaganda all over it.

For starters, when someone is covered in blood do you really want them to touch you? There is a whole host of viruses that can be transmitted with open wounds. Given that the victim is acting a little odd they have no idea how he would react. Imagine a few droplets of blood going into your nose, eyes, mouth and you are left with a virus, or even getting on your clothing and even with proper care inadvertantly take in the blood. Combine that with the victim acting "odd" if drugs were suspected, needles might be used, hence the increased odds of the victim contracting a transmittable virus. So when the video emphasizes the responders did not want to touch the burn victim, when it shows a scene of the father mourning as the voice of the officers expressing their concern over the blood, it isn't so irrational to be worried about the state of the burn victim.

There was an emphasis in the video on the term "good shot" when the taser was employed implying that the officer took pride in the shot. The "good shot" term was used to describe whether or not the taser made proper contact with the burn victim in order to deliver the shock. This is further proven that both of the persons interviewed used that term independently to describe it. I don't think the taser would work as well with a "bad shot"

Also does the fact that he was on top of the responder's vehicle not say anything about his state of mind?

I feel that the earlier videos do have some claim to accuracy (we don't know all the facts) and quite a bit have made it onto the sift (I have to say the way they treated the female victim is horrendous), but I find the burn victim scene to be flat out insulting in its delivery.

I have to completely agreew ith NetRunner and bcglorf

The reason why this kind of film is not actually educational is because it's working to prove a point, regardless of whether the point is actually true.

There are two types of documentaries, ones that have a conclusion and then finds facts which support the conclusion, and those types which have facts and then form a conclusion based on the informations that the facts present.

The prime problem with this film is that while it does present some informative and educational facts, they are only there to help give support to a point. It has a conclusion, and then finds facts to support the conclusion. That isn't the best method of knowing the truth; it's the best method of reinforcing what you already believe.

Because this film is only providing evidence to support the claims that it's making, it can hardly be called educational. In order for a documentary to be truly educational, it needs to include ALL information regarding the subject, not just the information which support the claims.

If you want to really know what I'm talking about watch an episode of Myth Busters and an episode of UFO Hunters. The differences between the shows and how they arrive at "truth" is astounding. The show UFO Hunters operates under the assumption that UFO's (of the alien variety) exist and they spend the entire show trying to find evidence to support the claim, not caring whether or not the initial claim is actually true in the first place. Myth Busters on the other hand cares whether or not the claims are true and works to figure out what is actually true, with little regard for what they *want* to be true.

One key point about the issue of the quality of the film isn't that the information contained within it is limited and limiting, it's that without a viewer with a skeptical mind (to act as a baloney detection kit), its dangerous. It's dangerous because it doesn't present the whole truth. Because our beliefs are informed by what we perceive to be true, and our beliefs inform our actions, misleading or false information often lead to catastrophic mistakes.

I'd be willing to bet that the film maker doesn't care what the actual truth is, just that this particular view is spread.

>> ^IAmTheBlurr:
The reason why this kind of film is not actually educational is because it's working to prove a point, regardless of whether the point is actually true.


Really?

This is horrible, but I'd like to point out that in the flashes at the end a picture of Barricade from the Transformers movie was listed as a supercharged police cruiser.

They've got giant robots?! I give, Democracy over!

I call BS on all the posts gently tip-toeing around the sheer brutality portrayed in this video. The allure of unquestioned authority is undoubtedly attractive to bullies, and that's what we just witnessed. I'm floored with how disease protection is even an issue. Having to serve and protect an individual that has suffered burns and lacerations is an obvious part of the job. The fact of the matter is that the police officers portrayed in this video and the other tazer happy cops recently in the news, are just not equipped to be Peace Officers. You don't need personal experience of a loved one savagely battered by police officers to understand the constant themes, but apparently it might help some of you.

>> ^Shepppard: You know why shit like this is happening? Lack of respect for the officers in question.

As much as you seem to claiming that you don't intend to, that is blaming the victim.

Arguing with any form of authority figure is a stupid idea.

Unless you live in a constitutional republic/democracy and have rights, which is really the question that the video poses.

The bottom line is, if you got pulled over, you were doing something wrong in the first place. Look at some of the videos here about "Police Brutality" 90% of these situations could be avoided by not doing something wrong in the first place.

When was the last time you drove for more that 15min without breaking any laws? Did your tires hit the line when you stopped at the stop sign? Did you drive 1mph over the limit? Did you "swerve too much"? Did you change lanes "too quickly" or without signaling? Where you black in the wrong neighborhood? <= (this has been ruled to be legal probable cause believe it or not) Were you "acting suspicious"?

The fact that the police can come up with an excuse to pull just about anybody over at any time if they want to, does nothing to excuse abuses of power, nor does it provide any method by which to avoid this abuse, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

If you said a rape victim "should not have worn that dress" you would be just as full of shit for exactly the same reason.

The fact that the police can come up with an excuse to pull just about anybody over at any time if they want to, does nothing to excuse abuses of power, nor does it provide any method by which to avoid this abuse, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Two months ago, my friend needed to be picked up from work. I decided I'd do it, even though I was an unlicensed driver (No G, only an M). I went out (this was about 11:30 at night) and started off to get her. About halfway there, a cop car going the other way saw me, pulled a u-turn and pulled me over.

The reason? I forgot to put the headlights on. I sat there, and remained polite for the entire thing. She asked what license type I had and I told her the truth. She could've given me a $450
ticket for driving without a license, which in turn would have suspended my G1 (Equivilant to a learners permit in the states I think) and my M, a ticket for driving without insurance, AND a ticket for something else that I can't remember anymore.

Instead, since I sat there, remained polite, and didn't talk back, she let me off everything but driving without insurance and only gave me a $65 ticket, and just asked that I wait there until my sister got to the car and SHE drove home instead.

I know that cops can pull you over for any reason, and if they do, sit there, and take whatever is coming to you. I have since taken my drivers test and now have my G2 (meaning i'm allowed to drive legally) but wouldn't have been able to if I had been given the ticket to suspend my licene. And if i'd had my headlights on, f.y.i. I wouldn't have been pulled over in the first place.

I’m the guy that put this video together. I just happened to check it and saw it had over 60,000 views. I was shocked; I really didn’t think an hour long video would survive on the internet. So out of curiosity I Googled a bit to see where it was embedded. I found this page and just finished reading the ongoing discussion. Normally I let people talk amongst themselves but I decided this time to make a few quick points.

1. This is not a ‘Documentary’. People calling it that are just creating a straw-man. No, I didn’t interview all of those involved and no, I didn’t include an additional hour of cops helping old ladies across the street. I’m just a guy that stitched together similar videos so all of them could be seen in a single location. Videos are a form of expression intended to evoke an emotional response. Education is a personal matter. You should never rely on a video to give you the information you need to make informed decisions.

2. Those that were hoping that there would be some pompous intellectuals sitting around discussing the matter are apparently missing the point. This is the introduction to the conversation that viewers are supposed to have, though I would rather that the blatant brutality would entice viewers to begin standing up for themselves and actively working toward repression of police power instead of gathering quotes from Wikipedia. That’s not to say such intelligent discussion isn’t needed, but passion is what is lacking in America. This is just like the main point of #1. If you want to see an intense discussion that actually addresses the core problem and leads to real change, start one.

3. I made this video for a few simple reasons. Essentially I had grown tired of people making excuses and treating the occasional leaked clip as an isolated incident that warrants nothing more than remark at the water cooler. I was curious to see how much the average apathetic individual could take before the light finally comes on and they realize there is a very serious threat that is growing exponentially. (plus its just a sad fact, the average Joe is more likely to watch a video than read a report) I researched each of these cases myself to the extent I felt was necessary so that I could verify the situation wasn’t misleading. I wanted to show only people suffering arrest and violence at the hands of police while not breaking any laws. This means that anyone of us could find ourselves in these situations at any given time. I’ve personally suffered abuse and false arrest (kidnapping). Nearly every one of my friends and family members also have similar stories. Anyone. Anytime. i.e. It CAN happen to you or your spouse... or your child.

4. Please avoid the “few bad apples” delusion. The ratio of cops that abuse to those that don’t is irrelevant and is a distraction (though I would contend that the claim that only a few are bad doesn’t stand up to real world scrutiny and yes I know some cops personally). The real problem is the mindset that is so pervasive here, not the number of 'bad' cops. The cop's belief that they are separate from and superior to the citizenry is only dwarfed by the much worse mentality that citizens have by actually believing that too (as well as the belief that abuse is acceptable, etc.) It’s this mentality that continues to create an atmosphere that can only result in creating ‘bullies’. Cops are human. Remove accountability and replace it with blind praise, sheepish obedience and a bullet proof vest… that will turn any man into a monster.

5. For those that are interested in the discussion aspect that is missing from this video, would like to see a list of most source material (both video and written reports) or if anyone would just like to know more about where I am coming from, then you can check out the supplemental blog I posted along with the video. It’s at MySpace, so it’s not like I’m doing this for ad revenue or attention. If nothing else, you may want to read the letter I received from a cop that watched the video. I posted it at the top of the blog.

Sorry for clogging up your comment section with such a long winded post. Once I start typing I find it hard to stop. There’s a lot to say and I barely scratched the surface. Anyway, I’ll leave you guys to continue the debate.

Thanks to everyone for watching and sharing this video. I hope that something good will come of it.
-BF

P.S. It’s come to my attention that the video isn’t very clear during one specific incident, because it happens so fast and the footage is so grainy. The boy that was beaten in the subway was shot in the back while another officer had the boy pinned down. He later died from his injuries.