Fuck me. Harass you until you get agitated, then ask why your agitated, then ask you to calm down, then arrest you.

Be subservient or face the consequences.

The dude fully complied and the Cops did this man wrong.

I hope he gets him and his mom and much much nicer home after this settlement.

The cop had every opportunity to check with Charlie. Another safety issue for the cops? Going to a house they don't know? In that neighborhood?

And crappy as it is, he was resisting. Don't yell at a cop. Even when they are dead wrong. Just don't. Unfortunately that is just the way it is. Life isn't fair. And I know it is on top of hundreds of years of unfairness. And still. Tug your forelock, look at the ground, seethe inside. And you don't get arrested.

"You can't do that." Yes, unfortunately they can.

Did you hear what the female officer said at the very end? She told a fellow officer to "watch your back" when a car pulled up. Why? Because they might have a gun. These officers do live in fear for their own lives -- because we insist on "second amendment rights" and our streets are flooded with guns.

And does anyone think that the female officer was in the wrong here? She tried to calm everything down. She had no control over the cop who freaked when he thought the scary black man was calling on his friends to show up. And she resigned, lost her job, lost her income. I think she did the best she could under the circumstances.

I think any time an officer resigns while under investigation (a method often used to avoid reprimand, just quit and get another police job nearby), they should be barred from any law enforcement positions in the future....kind of like any priests that move when accused of diddling kids should be barred from teaching Sunday school.

This guy was lucky he didn't get one in the back of hs head when he was down - by US standars this qualifies as civilised..

I disagree. Police are not supposed to be our masters, we are not supposed to bow and scrape before them in the hopes we don't get sent to the stocks (or worse). Police are simply supposed to enforce the laws that we, as a society, have decided that we all should follow.

The problem is, we have allowed the police to become more than that through our own lack of care and mismanagement. A policeman should have to undergo more rigorous training and background checks, mental and physical, than any other service we provide to ourselves. Instead we pay them about the same as teachers and we let bullies into the system. We also allow people with significant evidence that they should never have positions of authority due to mental issues to become police. We do not rigorously punish the bad cops, nor prevent them from seeking work elsewhere, leading to the same type of thing that led to catholic molesters being shuffled about to molest again.

As far as police fearing others, can we finally say that the number of police fatalities are far less than the the ones inflicted by police? Yes, we have many guns in the USA, but the few times I recall of a police person being killed by one seem to revolve around them experiencing a retaliation style attack when you would least expect it (and not on a call), or when they are alone and on a remote call location. Yet most of these controversial police shootings of suspects seem to happen when they are in a group of officers with weapons drawn, which I would consider far less of a jumpy situation than being alone on a highway. If I am an officer, with multiple other officers nearby, I have weapons on the suspect (taser or otherwise), why am I more worried than if I am alone with a suspect? It simply doesn't make sense.

Finally, referring back to your resisting comment, have we not seen lately that you can still be shot while doing absolutely no resisting? One man was laying on the ground, hands in the air, while telling a mentally ill patient of his not to do anything that would get him shot, and the man on the ground got shot. Here in Austin we had a mentally ill man running naked in the street and he was shot and killed versus being tasered or taken down. The use of force, and the extremity of it, have not been shown to be merited. So if you can be shot and killed for not resisting, or simply not understanding the commands in the short time you are given to do so, what can we do? Should we carry a pair of handcuffs and a taser so we can pre-apply these items and give the cops less to fear?

I agree with just about everything you said. Except...

This isn't a perfect world. You described this imperfect world. This guy should wait until all the corrections are made? Or does it make more sense to seethe silently and await for the humiliation to end NOW?

The situation with police departments getting training (and support for mentally ill people BEFORE they flip out) does need to be fixed.

Until it is, play meek. Unless you want to be arrested. Hit in the eye. Humiliated on your front lawn. What do you gain from fighting a losing battle IN THIS MOMENT?

The problem is that if people do not resist, do not be 'that guy' who goes through the humiliation, then it will never be fixed. This is nothing new; what is new is that we can see it now. In fact, now more than ever is the time to be disobedient.

Of course, this is within reason. If you are a non-white person and there is ANY chance that they could claim you had a weapon, it might be wiser to just not resist once they start screaming and reach for weapons. But then again, as I previously mentioned, that isn't a guarantee.

http://videosift.com/video/Unarmed-Man-Laying-On-Ground-With-Hands-in-Air-Shot

@Mordhaus There are plenty of mentally disturbed people who will "resist" and provide enough fodder for the cellphones to keep the momentum going to clean up this mess we are in.

Don't resist, dude. Don't be a stat.

https://www.facebook.com/humansofnewyork/photos/a.102107073196735.4429.102099916530784/1383312675076162/?type=3&theater


(That guy lying on the ground wasn't being shot at, it was the other guy. What is so horrible about that particular situation was that the attendant was explaining the situation and he was ignored. You know because he was black. To me, that situation is the worst case of racism ever -- that a working black professional is not believed when he explains the situation.)

To be fair, it was 'claimed' that the officer was shooting at the mentally ill man with the toy in his hand. It's really a toss up at this point if you should believe the officer who took the shot.

Playing meek does not protect you from any abuse you've mentioned, including being shot to death. It doesn't keep one from being arrested, beaten, humiliated, having false charges levied, etc. It only perpetuates the idea that the police are 'just doing their job's' when they abuse citizens. Fight back. This guy played meek until an asshat illegally grabbed his phone, then attacked him, and remained meek afterwards. He could have destroyed that cop if he fought back....but would have probably been shot if he had exercised his right to self defense.

If you are black and armed and you get stopped, shoot first. Being armed is now considered a legitimate reason for police to kill you. You don't have to be threatening, pointing that gun, or doing anything wrong at all, just having it is 'reason' enough for them to shoot you dead today. Prison is better than dead, imo.

Cops have squandered the good will and trust granted them by the public. They no longer get the benefit of a doubt.

It's 25 times more likely a cop will murder you than the odds you might murder them, they are all armed and dangerous, and turnabout is fair play. In my opinion, citizens have more right to shoot cops in self defence than vice versa.

Took the shots.
He fired 3 times, and missed with all 3 shots if you believe he was shooting at the seated man brandishing a fully automatic toy truck.
That's a criminal level of incompetence if you ask me.

DO THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO FUCKING DO?

The guy was relaxed, friendly, respectful, making jokes, he gave them plenty of information that supported his story, his ID, the name of a neighbor they could ask....does this sound like somebody who thinks they might be about to busted for attempted burglary? What a total farce.

Pardon me, shots. It was a criminal level of incompetence. Yet neither the Commander who gave 'conflicting statements'(lied) nor the Officer have been charged with anything, even at this late date. Additionally, something else I forgot was that they let the victim bleed while handcuffed for 20 minutes without providing any first aid or making it a priority that he was treated. It was lucky that he didn't bleed out or go into shock.

But this is the type of thing I am talking about and was referencing to @bareboards2. I mean, I'm white and of Italian descent, so I could do damn near anything to an officer and not be killed. I even conceal carry, although they know that as soon as they see my license or run my plates. Yet we have people of color that are being run rampant over, be it racism or fear of a different culture/people. Like in that video where the guy was shot and the female officer's husband was in the pursuit helicopter saying that he looked like a mean black dude. We simply can't keep this up.

You know I agree with you, right? I am the one who said that this incident is the worst example of racism, after all.

To me, things like this are just more proof that every person who interacts with police should treat them like dangerous people they have the potential to be and show absolutely nothing but abject subservience. Because you absolutely can't trust them, whether you are white or not.

It can get you shot, making your point that "you can't do this to me" patently untrue. They can and they do.

So unless you are mentally ill or intent on "suicide by police", allow the humiliation and tug at your forelock.

Live to fight another day. Save yourself legal fees. Don't spend the night in jail. DON'T ARGUE. Seethe and GET EVEN.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

And get the training and the resources where they need to be.

Okay, so when men dominate women unfairly, you're happy for women to curtsy and live by men's leave..? Because men might threaten violence against women? Because that was the way it was? There was never a point where you stood up even though you feared it might result in harm to yourself?

There comes a point in time when it's no longer okay, when people are driven so far and they can't take it anymore. Surely you can understand that? How many women, or gays, or blacks, or "insert whatever you want here" have suffered because they were willing to stand up and fight against the tyranny?

Well, I fully support the Black Lives Movement. Peaceful, and sometimes agitated, marching for justice. Gay Rights. That explosive moment at Stonewall in Greenwich Village, when the gay men fought back and said NO MORE.

Do I want a single woman who is in danger of being physically assaulted to "fight back?" A single gay man? A single black person? No, honey bunny, I absolutely do not. I think that is the height of idiocy for a single individual to fight back against one, two, three men. Especially when they are armed and have proven that they are capable of using that weapon in anger, fear, adrenaline.

Keep yourself safe, deescalate the situation if you can, submit to rape [edit] IF you think the man/men will kill you if you do fight back -- fight back if it is safe to fight back. (Interesting stat -- something like 90% of assaults against women are by single unarmed attackers. No gun? No knife? Try to avoid, try to deescalate, and if that doesn't work, fight back and yell and make yourself as difficult a target as possible.)

I took a self defense class years ago, geared towards women protecting themselves from violence by men. Not because I was afraid, but because of the psychological skills that we were taught about setting boundaries, taking charge, making choices -- skills needed in every day life that can also be applied to rare events of possible violence.

It was called Powerful Choices. Choices, my friend. Choices.

I must say, it is shocking to me that so many people live in a zero sum world. A black and white world. Where there is only one way to respond despite the actual circumstances. That this moment has to be used to fight larger battles or you are a failure.

I am a big fan of using your noggin to be safe. A fan of demonstrations (I prefer peaceful.) A fan of changing the laws, the procedures, the culture. A fan of acting strategically for the long run.

So you have me all wrong, my friend. All wrong.

I was so hoping Mom would show up and ask, "excuse me, why is my son hogtied on my lawn with a busted eye?"

So you're saying you support them but only if they protest on your terms? If they do it the way you agree with?

Sounds like a shitty definition of support to me.

So what I saw on the recent John Oliver segment, is these cops resigning does not mean they are no longer working. They simply resign to avoid a disciplinary mark on their record, and then jump over to another precinct.
I think though that action would not dodge the criminal proceedings, only the internal charges.
The lawsuit costs seems to be the only motivation for policy reform.

It is so tiresome when I write reasonable and reasoned arguments, and people rewrite what I say into ridiculous exaggerations and misstatements.

Tiresome. Just tiresome.

I am not questioning your credentials, your intent or anything like that.

And I understand that what you are saying is logically the best course of action for any individual, that being the one that doesn't result in the person being in a body bag.

But unfortunately things tend to not change unless blood is spilled and lives are lost. It's moments like these that shock people out of their complacency. I don't need to tell you this of course, you understand it explicitly already (eg. mentioning Stonewall, for example). Black lives matter started out of this, and while I disagree ideologically with their methods of whitewashing (pun intended) the stats to ignore black deaths at the hands of black perpetrators, I think generally it has at least focused the spotlight back on what is essentially acceptable racism, ie. that any person with black skin is a ticking timebomb of crime and we should all feel justified in treating them that way... = \

But even if you take out the element of standing up against a bad system, there is still that frustration that causes a person to eventually say "Fuck it...". And yeah, I agree, it's far better personally to just eat shit and wait for daylight, but I understand why someone who makes all the right moves and still get's treated badly will finally push back, despite the possibility of tragic consequences.

@bareboards2 is right.

You do not have the right to resist arrest.

Even if the cops are 100% in the wrong (which they clearly are here), you can be charged, tried and convicted on this charge alone, regardless of the legality of the arrest.

As much as it fucking sucks, that is reality.

And @newtboy, "If you are black and armed and you get stopped, shoot first." are you serious? I must be reading this wrong, because what you are suggesting sounds insane.

Let's ignore that you are advocating killing a potentially innocent cop who might have stopped you for a perfectly legitimate reason. We can also ignore the fact that regardless of whether you have committed a crime, if you shoot at a cop the BEST possible outcome is that you do serious jail time.

Even ignoring all that, do you really want to give ammunition to the kind of people who say shit like "blue lives matter"?

Also ... Mom, answer your goddamn phone in future and give your son a fucking house key!

I'm beginning to believe the only way this gets fixed is the black community bypasses the police entirely. Set up a "Black 911" staffed by volunteers who are willing to break up fights, mundane cop stuff, etc etc, and won't shoot somebody at the slightest provocation. Then start de-funding the police until they are only responding to "shots fired" calls in black neighborhoods where they need to be armed.

I agree, it's insane, but if, as is increasingly the case, the option is submit and die or fight back, insane is preferable to dead. (Edit: I do think there are people that do think that, however, and they are given more evidence daily that it's a reasonable way to think.)
That said, I'm being hyperbolic to make a point. Clearly, shooting first will really get you shot with far more certainty, and is a terrible idea....but just as clear, there is no working method to avoid abuse.
My hope with that kind of statement is that police might realize that the biggest single contributing factor to the level of danger they see on the job is the mistrust, fear, and animosity they sow with these kinds of constant, mostly unprosecuted crimes, and worse ones.