Disgusting

And Israel once again shows it's true colors. They seem bolder daily about committing genocide.

Evil

I've said it many times, the 4th Reich is alive and well and it's Israel...

And every reporter who is critical of Israeli actions gets reassigned. This is how the mainstream media coerces reporters into covering one side of the story. Reporters are forced to choose between their careers and their integrity.

*news *worldaffairs *war

Adding video to channels (News, Worldaffairs) - requested by notarobot.

Good for them and FUCK Hamas...

And mainstream media's self censorship continues
http://www.alternet.org/media/msnbc-correspondent-i-was-canceled-because-i-criticized-networks-pro-israel-coverage

I'm surprised it's not a drinking a game.
*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

Oh, I bet it is....in fact, I would guess some of those in the crowd are playing while she films. It's probably why they threatened her if she said a word wrong....they were drunk and pissed off that she interrupted their hospital bombing party.

There is no doubt that these people are disgusting, but thankfully they are also rare. Every society has their fringe crazies - the US has Westboro Baptist Church, for instance - and they generally get way more attention than they deserve by being controversial.

This isn't to say that there isn't a problem with Israeli society's attitude toward the Palestinians, it's just to say that I think it is a problem that is far more subtle and widespread. Focusing so much attention on a small percentage of religious fanatics can be important because it does represent a movement and ideology that is problematic, but it has very little direct relevance to the current conflict.

The real problem, in my opinion, is a unique mixture of nationalism and a lopsided insulation from the reality of the conflict that is very common in Israeli society.

Israeli society is uniquely coherent in a particular way that stems from the relatively homogenous cultural identity facilitated by Judaism, and this coherence is also strengthened by the fact that Israeli society was built in the face of and as a direct result of considerable adversity. I think that this does allow for a sort of groupthink that inhibits Israel's ability to treat the Palestinians in a humane manner, but the effect manifests itself through society as a sort of cultural blindness and it manifests through the political process as hawkish policy.

(Also, whether or not you think they had the right to build that society in the first place is beside the point right now, I'm only talking about the existence of the unifying influence of adversity, and the effect it has on policy and the national psyche)

The other component of it is the simple fact that Israelis are extremely insulated from the realities of the Palestinian sufferings.

Even in the heat of a conflict like this, Israelis can pretty much go about their lives unimpeded. It is true that the rocket attacks are disruptive and that there is on a whole an unacceptably high level of danger from external attacks, but Israelis have leveraged a security apparatus that minimizes these realities in day to day life to an astounding degree, all things considered, and this fact is a double edge sword that creates a perfect breeding ground for indifference.

One side of the sword is that these measures are extremely effective at improving the lives of Israelis in the short term. However the other side of the sword is that it obviously makes these measures popular and politically successful. Furthermore, with all the calm and prosperity, it is very easy to forget about the abysmal conditions being imposed on 1.8 million people just thirty kilometers or so from your doorstep. The only time they really have to deal with the issue is when there is an inevitable flareup of violence at which point, naturally, people tend to be less empathetic. The rest of the time, during the lulls, the prospect of empathy is just placed on the back burner.

These are the tendencies that need to be addressed.

However calling Israel the 4th Reich and placing so much focus on youtube videos that give Israel's religious fanatics undue prominence is just as useless and destructive as all the Israelis and Israel sympathizers who insist on viewing Palestinian society as an unchanging, violent monolith that is accurately represented by its extremist elements.

The fact of the matter is that there are significant movements within Israeli society that are in fact attempting to change these trends. The same is true of Palestinian society, however it is more difficult for those movements because of the repressions imposed by Hamas, culture and environment.

If there is to be any hope in this situation, Israel's role as the dominant, occupying force means that they have the first move. They will have to shift from focusing on isolation and self-preservation to one of empathy to the average Palestinian, an empathy that is so strong that they must be willing to take considerable personal risks and let up their stranglehold on Palestinian society and allow them to prosper.

Because only then will the environment be in any way conducive for Palestinians to take considerable personal risks and defy the status quo en masse. Only then will the false succor of violent religious extremism loose its appeal.

Until that happens, we'll the cycle seems to return to square one every two or three years and I expect to have this discussion again sometime around 2017.

Unfortunately, it is going to be a hard and unlikely road because it takes a lot of empathy and effort to rise up and take huge risks during the times of quiet when prosperity and security easily distract from the continuing plight of the Palestinians. These aren't common traits. Humans are a very tribal species and we're not good at this kind of stuff when it concerns someone different who you don't have to interact with. This challenge is hardly unique to the Jews.

USA, come at me bro...

@Mystic95Z
dude...seriously?
ya know what you are?

Completely saddened by your lack of decency and disregard for human life.
I'm sorry you can't see to separate yourself from the hate and violence and propaganda that overcomes you.
Hate breads hate. See if you can correct your path in this world, because even if you believe in a afterlife, it won't want you.

Actually I have seen the opposite, this 'fringe' as you call it being the norm, but being hidden from view as they understand it looks bad to cheer a hospital being bombed, but they can't help themselves.
As you noted, empathy is never a concern, forgotten in the good times, actively fought against in the bad.
Again, I disagree that this is a 'fringe' element of Israel, from everything I've seen, and those I have spoken to directly (including family members that work for the consulate) the eradication of Palestine and it's people are something they would love to see. The tiny minority dissenting are usually attacked, beaten, arrested, and often disappeared. We have seen this repeatedly in recent times.
Yeah, it's the oppression of Hamas that's the main controlling issue for the Palestinians, not the oppression of the occupying nation to the right....NOT. Many Palestinians are vocal about wanting peace...but not so in Israel, where a dissenting voice is quickly and violently silenced....like here.
http://videosift.com/video/Young-American-Jew-Stands-up-for-Palestine
As a people that suffered due to this tribalism, you might think they would understand it's foibles and avoid them, instead they have jumped head first into it themselves....making themselves akin to a fourth right.

EDIT: as an aside, it seems odd to me that all those claiming Israel has a 'right to defend itself' have already forgotten that Israel fired the first volley, so I hope after being reminded of that fact, they will admit that really Palestine has the 'right to defend itself', while Israel is the aggressor....right?

I know a lot more has been going on, but this is how I see it. 3 Israeli teens were taken hostage and then killed by Hamas.....1 Palestinian teen throwing gas bombs at police was arrested and beaten by the Israeli police.....Hamas launches hundreds of rockets at Israel costing Israel millions of dollars to shoot down. Egypt asks for a cease fire and Israel agrees...Hamas launches another rocket that kills an Israeli soldier....Israel starts launching there own guided missiles at suspected Hamas rocket locations.....killing 100's of Palestinians......This is how wars are started....the rest of the world is just the same.....we all are! Hamas stared it and if the Palestinians want Israel to stop maybe they should kick Hamas out....

EMBRACE THE HATRED! YA BRO!

I wish I was as sure as you are about what's going on and who is to blame. I think the most important point that was made about this post is that the modern media is subject to overwhelming forces of "chill" in one form or another, so it is difficult if not impossible to take any one or even multiple reports of violence or even formulate an unbiased opinion on who is to blame. In the west, it sounds like Israel is winning the media war so stories like this that expose the regional culture of warfare and racism on both sides might seem shocking.

I love how the progressives got together and created the UN, and all the progressives cheered, and the UN created Israel, and Israel said "let's treat this like it's real", and had a democracy and invited everyone in to participate, but the poverty pimps said they wanted to be in charge, so the progressives sent them money, which they used to buy hookahs and rockets and decided to aim them at the Jews, who decided enough is enough and fought back, something they didn't do in WWII.

Now the progressives have their panties in a wad again and blame Israel for defending themselves.

And a double FUCK you to you...

The Palestinian boy was burned alive:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/05/palestinian-boy-mohammed-abu-khdeir-burned-alive

Israel has Gaza under siege, what are they suppose to do, role over and die?

The cease fire agreement is just ploy. Israel and Egyptian government are both unfriendly to Palestine. Would you agree to sign a contract written by your enemies without any representation from your side.

At the point that Israeli soldier was killed the ground invasion had already began, what would anyone except?

Can you name any other conflict in which they count the number of ammunition fired by one side? If you can't, its because conflicts are never reported that way. It is a talking point from Netanyahu's propaganda scripts and you shouldn't trust a source that just reads propaganda.

If you rearrange the word "Zion", it's only one letter off from "Nazi".

Fuck humanity.

You missed a few parts there...3 teens killed, Israel CLAIMS by Hamas, but Hamas never takes credit (and they love to take credit). Israel immediately bombs Palestine mercilessly AND 1 Palestinian teen kidnapped and burned alive by Israeli soldiers (there's no such thing as an Israeli civilian), AND another Palestinian teen is ACCUSED BY ISRAEL of throwing gas bombs only AFTER they are caught on tape beating and stomping the hell out of him while he's handcuffed and completely subdued. Hamas then retaliates with 1/1000 the force returned by Israel. Egypt, an enemy of Palestine, and Israel make a show of calling for a 'ceasefire' on 100% their terms without even talking to Hamas, then claims it's Hamas that won't cease. Israel continues launching more guided missiles at beaches, hospitals, and old folks homes, killing hundreds of civilians and then invades in full force, killing hundreds more, while Hamas shoots hundreds of essentially fireworks causing extremely minor damage and 1 eventual death....yet you think Hamas is the big bad guy and Israel is the poor innocent whipping boy.....Um.....just DUH.
Hamas started it IF AND ONLY IF YOU BELIEVE ONLY ISRAELI PROPAGANDA, but if you look dispassionately at the known facts, that's simply BS, Israel invaded first, shot first and continues to shoot more and more disastrously at civilians while whining 'we have to defend ourselves' (from the useless fireworks the Palestinian devils are shooting at us), which should really mean turning on the missile defense system.
What they are doing it offensive, not defensive....and I'm offended!

Grow up, little idiot. No-one is impressed by your rambling incoherent swearing at people.

This is videosift.... we have @chingalera for that!

You people who believe Hamas are just as duped as the Palestinians who believe Hamas when they teach their children to strap on suicide belts.

Fools.

@lantern53
i say this with all humanity and respect:
stop...juuuust stop.

i have watched you over the years butcher american history and politics,there is no possible way you have the extremely complicated,diverse and contradictory situation that is the isreali/palestinian conflict understood.

at least enough where you can offer anything substantial.
nope.
nada.
no way..jose.
and my all time favorite:

man getting pushed off a cliff....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It's ok.. the problem has been "explained"

*related=http://videosift.com/video/The-Middle-East-problem-explained

The Middle East problem "explained" has been added as a related post - related requested by ChaosEngine.

What's disgusting is the hypocrisy of people, who applaud the constant bombardment of Israel with missiles, and then rise up in outrage when Israel moves to defend itself.

Israel shows amazing fucking restraint for a country that had hundreds of missiles launched at it.

Hamas fired over 400 rockets at civilian population centers.

You would be singing a very different song if your home town came under constant bombardment. 50% of Israeli kids living near the Gaza Strip have post traumatic stress disorder. Fuck Hamas and the horse they rode in on.

Seriously, who gives a shit who did what to whom when? The whole conflict is basically fascists vs. terrorists and whatever side you choose, it's the wrong one.
There will never be peace in that region and it doesn't matter anymore who started it or who's the bigger piece of shit. Neither side will ever be willing to bury the hatchet and they will continue to murder each other until one side runs out of people to "sacrifice". It's the Pennyworth principle, die a hero or live long enough to become the villian.

Honestly. Seriously... honestly... what is a greater danger to the average Israeli? Rockets... or a car accident. How many Israelis died last week. How many were automobile related? How many were heart disease? How many were cancer? How many were rockets? I'm guessing you already know how these dangers rank in the death toll.

I don't support either side in this. But, to say the suffering in Israel is even in the ballpark of what is being felt in Palestine is just silly. Please allow facts room to breath, regardless of your prejudices. We all have these prejudices. Please... please... just don't encourage them.

They may be rare (I doubt it), but last time I checked, Israel is a democracy. The people keep voting in people who aggressively attack and expand in to what little is left to the Palestinians. Standing by and pleading ignorance is not good enough.

I did not call Israel the 4th Reich, I said the 4th Reich is alive and well in Israel. I'm sure not every person cheered on the Nazi's either, but we don't really make that distinction often when talking about the 3rd Reich because it led, and most people either followed or allowed it to lead. The fact that Palestine, a country in name only, is basically the largest concentration camp in the world strikes a disturbing parallel.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a hell of a lot of what you say in your post, and you seem to be a reasonable and grounded person when it comes to this topic, but Israel has constantly held the upper hand since it's inception, backed by even bigger friends. If it were two kids in the schoolyard, we'd call em out for exactly what they are, a bully, and a cowardly one at that.

I don't applaud Hamas, I think their actions are as deplorable.

But I understand them.

Similarly, I understand the French Resistance. Or the American "terrorists" (Son's of Liberty) that started the resistance against the British which eventually led to the War of Independence... Of course, those are terrorists that we agree with because they were on the side of good. So we call them a resistance or patriots. The people they killed were obviously all evil ne'er-do-wells who deserved it, innocents were never harmed... /eyeroll

I had a good laugh at the "50% of the kids have PTSD". Oh the poor dears, perhaps their government shouldn't have zoned their houses in a fucking warzone. At least they have bomb shelters, a warning system, Iron Dome ffs...

But you'll have to remind me, where are the bomb shelters in Gaza when Israeli artillery and guided munitions come a knocking? Where's the automated missile defense system shooting down incoming strikes, or the warning system to tell people an attack is imminent? Who's supplying them with first class military equipment?

Have you ever seen one of Hamas' vaunted "rockets"? A home built, hand machined dumbfire which uses ammonium nitrate and sugar as it's propellant, and mostly low grade explosives as it's payload. No guidance, just launch and hope it hits something. Yup, it'll kill you if it lands on you, but they are weapons of desperation, not a serious threat. The 600 to 30 kill ratio at the moment speaks to that.

Israeli death toll : 30 (mostly soldiers)
Palestinian death toll: over 600 mostly civilians.

I don't applaud the rocket attacks, but this is not a proportional response.

No, instead the perpetuate a state sponsored version of history that says the palestinians willingly left their homes when Israel was founded, ignoring the terror campaign instituted that made them want to leave their homes, ignoring the hundreds of thousands that were literally forced out at gun point. Instead they force their children to participate in a generations long campaign of ethnic cleansing. Instead they relocate their families to settlements, thereby implicating them in war crimes. No, they don't use suicide bombers, they just use bombers. That way they can go back over and over again.

I'm not saying the Palestinians make good neighbours. I am saying that Israel makes for a horrible neighbour.

Yeah no, I'm sorry but you have a lot of this very wrong. The Gaza strip is the worlds largest open air prison. Israel has blocked peace with US support and has broken ceasefires consistently with US support for over 4 decades now.

You need to read a bit more to understand how complex this situation is. Hamas are by no means saints and they are cripplingly stupid. But there is a reason why there are dozens of votes at the UN that are every other fucking country in the world against Israel and the US. Because they're on the wrong side of history. Israel is running an apartheid state and will continue to do so as long as there's people like you who support them.

I think the only people who rode in on anybody are the Israelis, just saying.

And for your definition of restraint I have this eye opener for you:

http://blog.thomsonreuters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/israel-palestine.jpg

Red is palestinian death, blue is israeli death.

United States is the only country which voted against investigating war crimes in Gaza by UN.
http://4bitnews.com/uk/un-human-rights-votes-investigate-war-crimes-gaza-uk-backs-israel/

US criticizes Russia over supplying arms to Ukrainian rebels, but they themselves arm Israel to its teeth by giving them $3B a year in military aid.

the Bush Administration and the Israeli government agreed to a 10-year, $30 billion military aid package for the period from FY2009 to FY2018. During his March 2013 visit to Israel, President Obama pledged that the United States would continue to provide Israel with multi-year commitments of military aid

I definitely agree with you on the democracy point - my whole post was mostly an attempt to explain what I perceive to be the main factors that drive Israeli democracy toward the oppression we see over the Palestinians. The nutters on the hilltop have very little influence on this drive, but the combined forces of Jewish nationalism and protective insulation go a long way toward making these policies successful in Israel's free and democratic society.

I guess, then, in an extremely limited respect I agree with you on the 4th reich thing just because of the comparison between complacent German citizens who were only patriotic and insulated from the realities of Jewish suffering and Jews who are only patriotic and insulated from the realities of Palestinian suffering.

That being said, using the term "Fourth Reich" doesn't illuminate this sort of nuance and instead it accuses Israel of many extremes of which it is not guilty. For example Nazi Germany was guilty of a truly unprecedented campaign to methodically exterminate vast populations based on their ethnicity, and they were literally bent on world domination - I have many harsh criticisms for Israel, but if you think that Israel's conduct can be reasonably compared to that then you are delusional.

In a similar vein, while I do think that Gaza in many ways is the world's largest prison, it is not in any way comparable to Nazi concentration camps. I would much rather live in present day Gaza than be in a Nazi concentration camp, for one, and secondly I think that Israel's policy towards Gaza can better be described as one of control and marginalization, whereas the Nazi's goals with concentration camps was straight up efficient extermination.

So long story short, don't fall prey to the "reductio ad hitlerum" fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum) and make a more careful comparison between Israel's and Nazi Germany's respective civilian populations and I'd be more inclined to agree with your point.

This says everything I need to know about you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

The rockets have killed "Mostly civilians". And wounded thousands.

If Mexico was launching four thousand rockets at America, there would be no way in hell we'd just sit back and give them the limited response that Israel was meting out.

You should get your news from places other than HuffPo and Mother Jones.

"The wrong side of history"? Seriously, can you even say that with a straight face? Just because your echo chamber all believes the same thing doesn't mean that Israel isn't in the moral right here.

Actually where I mostly get my news is Noam Chomsky so I think I'm in good company. Now I have to ask, are you being paid for your posts? I think you should look into it, you could be making some money. Unlike anyone defending Palestinians. You should note I'm saying Palestinians and not Hamas.

Yes I can say wrong side of history with a straight face. The entire world wants Israel to accept a two state solution and they chose specifically to use force because they had the backing of the United States. Israel and the US have blocked peace for 40 years, and that's a fact.

There's no such thing as an Israeli civilian. They are all, 100% of them, in the military or reservists.
If we were slowly taking over Mexico and corralling the Mexicans into smaller and smaller ghettos while stealing their land, and killing tens of thousands of them, I would not support deadly, broad, unfocused 'retaliation' against teenagers shooting 'fireworks' at all. If you would, you are inhumanly evil.

Lol, that's a pretty flaccid attempt at selective quotation...

"I had a good laugh at the "50% of the kids have PTSD. Oh the poor dears, perhaps their government shouldn't have zoned their houses in a fucking warzone. At least they have bomb shelters, a warning system, Iron Dome ffs..."

Whereas Palestinian kids have... Oh right, a mortar shell knock minutes before the explosive payload arrives.

I feel pity for innocents on both sides of the line, but I feel more pity for the hundreds of targets of high precision directed artillery/guided missiles and bombs as opposed to the handful of victims of random chance dumbfire rockets...

Is it nuance to be an innocent family on the receiving end of a high explosive round? Last time I checked, whether it's via gas or a shell, death is death. Do you think the Palestinians suffer less fear waiting to see if they are about to die? That you raise scale as a method of differentiation is laughable. Israel has has ~70 years of slowly whittling away at Palestine and it's people.

And the facile differentiation between a German concentration camp and Gaza is beneath you. You would much rather not live in fucking either, and neither would all of us if we were given a choice. That the Israelis are going about the business of eliminating Palestine slowly is more about international backlash. If they thought they could get away with it, they'd sweep them in to the sea and be done with it.

And in response to the invocation of Godwin's Law, you do understand that the purpose of the Godwin is to reduce/remove ludicrous hyperbole, not to shut down legitimate comparisons? Much as you could draw parallels with Idi Armin, Stalin/Russia etc, Israel is engaging in similar tactics. Fascism, racism, segregation, making war on civilians etc. That it isn't a 100% carbon copy is irrelevant.

I do understand that the purpose of Godwin's law is to reduce the worst kinds of hyperbole, and that's exactly what I'm trying to do.

Whatever you think about Israel's policies regarding the Palestinians, referring to it as extermination only shows that you haven't taken the time to understand anything about the current conflict and you are just reacting emotionally to the terrible horror of war. Extermination is the total elimination of a certain population by killing, and such an action is so far beyond the state of oppression we see in Gaza today that I just can't take your comparison seriously.

The only way you bother to support these outlandish statements is by telling me that death is death - no matter what the cause - as if that mindless tautology is enough to render two wildly different sets of circumstances and tactics equivalent.

Should we also call all murders murders and not bother to make distinctions between first degree, second degree, involuntary manslaughter, etc? Should we treat the serial killer the same as the drunken brawler who hit someone too hard in a bar fight?

Of course not. As thinking people we analyze factors such as intent, quantity, severity, remorse, and perhaps most importantly, we consider what measures can possibly be taken to correct the underlying cause. All of these elements are wildly different in the different degrees of murders, and having an honest grasp of these differences helps us understand how we as a society should react to each degree, both in terms of punishment and rehabilitation.

To similar ends, it is very important that we consider analogous distinctions in the different degrees of atrocities between nations or ethnic groups. The fact that it is obvious that I would much rather be in Gaza today than a concentration camp in 1943 is very much so relevant to this sort of analysis. The fact that there is no Israeli intent to exterminate the Palestinians is also relevant.

But if you want to leave the depth of your understanding at "dead is dead" then I guess that's your choice.

More philosophical wank citing junk analogies (lol, blowing up peoples houses with them still inside = drunken manslaughter in a bar fight?) to justify a position directly contradicted by people who should know...

http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-auschwitz-borders-revisited/7847

"The late Tommy Lapid, justice minister in Ariel Sharon’s government, caused an uproar in 2004 when he said that images of an elderly Palestinian woman in Gaza “crouching on all fours, searching for her medicines in the ruins of her house” demolished by the Israeli army reminded him of his own grandmother who perished at Auschwitz. Lapid compared the Israeli army’s writing of numbers on the arms and foreheads of Palestinian prisoners to the Nazi practice of tattooing concentration camp inmates. “As a refugee from the Holocaust I find such an act insufferable,” he said in 2002."

"Lapid, who was chairman of Yad Vashem, Israel’s official Holocaust memorial, also likened the routine harassment of Palestinians by Israeli settlers in the West Bank city of Hebron to the anti-Semitism of pre-World War II Europe. “It was not crematoria or pogroms that made our life in the diaspora bitter before they began to kill us,” he said in 2007, “but persecution, harassment, stone-throwing, damage to livelihood, intimidation, spitting and scorn.” Lapid did not live long enough to see Hebron settlers attempt to burn down a house with a large Palestinian family trapped inside, an act witnessed on 4 December by Avi Issacharoff, reporter for the Israeli daily Haaretz, who called it “a pogrom in the worst sense of the word.”

or perhaps:

http://youtu.be/qMGuYjt6CP8

"Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

I'll take the word of people who lived through the Holocaust and the formation of Israel over you... = P

...well...actually...we do have an opening.