Welcome to the world of privatized medicine. A call for an ambulance alone costs over $1000 just for it to show up.

If you're not insured in the United States and you need medical care, this is exactly what happens.

My brother broke his nose surfing, and after a 3 hour stay at an emergency room, our Insurance covered the whole thing. I'm not saying the prices are fair, I'm not advocating privatized medicine, I'm just saying this is exactly what insurance is for in a country that has privatized medicine.

Right, i think that's like telling someone:

"Would you please stop bitchin' about traffic and your expensive commute?

Welcome to the world of privatized helicopter services. Hello!
My Brother and I, after being stuck in traffic for 7 minutes, just OnStarred our HSP [Helicopter service provider] and they airlifted us and the car directly to our box seats at the Lakers game!

...I'm just saying, this is exactly what Helicopter Service is for in a country that has terribly planned, underfunded infrastructure."


>> ^Tymbrwulf:

Welcome to the world of privatized medicine. A call for an ambulance alone costs over $1000 just for it to show up.
If you're not insured in the United States and you need medical care, this is exactly what happens.
My brother broke his nose surfing, and after a 3 hour stay at an emergency room, our Insurance covered the whole thing. I'm not saying the prices are fair, I'm not advocating privatized medicine, I'm just saying this is exactly what insurance is for in a country that has privatized medicine.

Free Health Insurance, woo! Go Denmark!

"Welcome to the world of privatized medicine. A call for an ambulance alone costs over $1000 just for it to show up."

Right. Same deal in Australia, but I think it's a bit less than that.

As someone from a certain country in northwestern Europe the fact that an emergency service carried a (hefty) fee left my mouth agape for a good 10 minutes. I'm getting taxed just as much as I was in that socialist state, too. Guess all that money's going on the great firewall of Australia.

We wanted single payer Obama.

Well dude, remember, you're not just paying for services rendered. You're also paying for all the illegal invaders' "free" health care and the parasitic culture of trial lawyers.

There is no 'free market' medicine and no real competition, just a hidden exchange between Big Daddy Guvmint and his Magical Treasury printing press, insurance companies and hospitals. Small wonder no one is trying to cut costs and boost efficiency.

A pure free market health care system would not work; something closer to it, with transparent pricing, would be more optimal.

I'm not sure this guy is entirely telling the truth. He says in another video that he suffered a concussion in addition to the facial laceration. If he was admitted to the emergency dept with altered mentation in addition to the obvious trauma he likely would have had head/brain imaging with non-contrast CT. This in and of itself is several hundred dollars. I don't know if he was admitted as a trauma by ambulance, but if he had temporary loss of consciousness or altered mentation then the EMT/paramedics may have called in a high level trauma, which by default activates multiple services and personnel including anesthesia, general/trauma surgery and radiology. People spend way more than $7,000 on things like cars and travel. Why complain about medical treatment at one of America's leading private hospitals? I've worked at Stanford - I'm sure he was evaluated within 10 minutes of arriving at a bay in the ED. Stanford is a private, for-profit hospital with level 1 trauma services. He may have had a prolonged wait either because his status was triaged downwards for other traumas or the ED may have consulted dermatology or plastic surgery for the facial laceration repair. They may have been waiting for radiology clearance as well.

What was the childhood accident?

This reminds me of a Newsradio episode where Matthew Brock (Andy Dick) cuts his hand up somewhat bad during some office horseplay involving a light fixture and a cup. He was not insured.

The bill was something like $13000 for a few stitches. Back in the 90's when this episode aired, I did some research. It wasn't a joke they were trying to make with this episode. That's literally how much it cost (the producers did their research) to fix that kind of hand wound.

Sure in Canada I would have to wait upwards of 12hours at Lions Gate Hospital Emergency Room in NorthVan BC to get any attention, but at least it wouldn't cost me a god damn cent. Holy hell.

shit... When I was 16 years old i had a snowboarding accident which split my liver and something broke in my gall. This was in sweeden, a sweedish ambulance drove me to the closest hospital which was in Norway where I'm from. They in turn flew me with helicopter to a hospital better suitet to fix me. After 16 days in hospital i returned home without paying anything.

Free healthcare makes for a better country for everyone!

Just as an aside, I did a rotation in an Orthopedics hospital in Poland. The average wait time for socialized healthcare there is 3 years for a procedure.

We would have people coming in that needed surgery on their hands, and if it took any longer than 3-6 months of waiting, the muscles would start to atrophy and the hand would become useless even if it was fixed. Guess what? Unless you had the money to pay for private care to fix your hand, you're waiting those 3 years because there is someone just like you waiting for a surgery that is just as important.

3 hours in a hospital and $7000 for 3 stiches? That's craziness. Last time I needed stiches, it took maybe 30 minutes at a local clinic. And this is in Canada, so no bill afterwards.

We have to start somewhere. And as I understood it there was too much opposition to the single payer plan. >> ^Yogi:

We wanted single payer Obama.

There's no such thing as free healthcare, @gwiz665.

The reason US prices are so high is NOT because of privatization. Healthcare has always been privatized in the US, and in the 1960s someone's hospital bill would've been extremely reasonable. You have to ask yourself why the cost is so high now when it used to be so low.

Price increases started with government intervention that forced hospitals to treat everyone. Sure we want everyone to be taken care of, but if you come into the hospital with a hangnail or a runny nose, they MUST treat you.

And a lot of people don't pay their bill, and yet they're still allowed under penalty of law to return for service. Someone has to eat that cost, right? Well, welcome to the world of $7000 stitches.

I have pretty great insurance and was floored by the statement of benefits ("This is not a bill") I received after acute appendicitis. Everything had been covered 100% (including a pic line and once-a-week homecare nurse for a post-op infection), but they sent me the paperwork. It was insane; a doctor who stopped in my hospital room once for less than 5 minutes and merely asked me "How are you feeling" charged the insurance a ~$700 consulting fee. Next to that was the amount paid by the insurance: $0.

It was hilarious to see the charges and total submitted by the hospital in one column (tens of thousands) and the "fuck you, we're paying you this and you'll like it" from the insurance company in the second column (somewhere around 10-20% of that requested).

I'm not sure who was being the bigger dick in this situation, but I didn't pay for anything (except for my monthly $200 pre-tax deduction from my paycheck, which is still pretty crazy, but I ended up utilizing what most people end up just giving away to their insurance company).

>> ^robv:

We have to start somewhere. And as I understood it there was too much opposition to the single payer plan. >> ^Yogi:
We wanted single payer Obama.



Only most of the public. When the public wants something but the companies do not...guess who wins? For decades Socialized Health Care enjoyed about 80% support...it was considered politically unpopular because of the business community.

>> ^Tymbrwulf:
My brother broke his nose surfing, and after a 3 hour stay at an emergency room, our Insurance covered the whole thing.


Odd, I didn't have to go to hospital for a broken nose until it had been broken more than 60 times, at which point the cartillage needed reinforced. Admittedly that was a particularly nasty instance of breaking my nose, but thankfully the whole procedure of inserting metal rods into my nose to reinforce and retain its original structure cost *opens xe.com for a quick conversion to US dollars* $312.37.

Seriously though, it shouldn't matter whether or not someone has health insurance. The price paid for medical care by health insurance companies is significantly less than what a person who does not have health insurance will be asked to pay. Why should the individual have to pay a premium when they are perfectly okay with paying for health care on an as-required basis? I'll tell you why, it's because the insurance companies have the health industry so tied up. There is no justifiable reason why someone should be expected to pay a monthly fee just to avoid being shafted by fees that are typically triple what the actual insurance companies are required to pay to hospitals.

>> ^Tymbrwulf:

Just as an aside, I did a rotation in an Orthopedics hospital in Poland. The average wait time for socialized healthcare there is 3 years for a procedure.
We would have people coming in that needed surgery on their hands, and if it took any longer than 3-6 months of waiting, the muscles would start to atrophy and the hand would become useless even if it was fixed. Guess what? Unless you had the money to pay for private care to fix your hand, you're waiting those 3 years because there is someone just like you waiting for a surgery that is just as important.


That's Poland...I think the richest country in the world can do better.

>> ^Herostratus:

I have pretty great insurance and was floored by the statement of benefits ("This is not a bill") I received after acute appendicitis. Everything had been covered 100% (including a pic line and once-a-week homecare nurse for a post-op infection), but they sent me the paperwork. It was insane; a doctor who stopped in my hospital room once for less than 5 minutes and merely asked me "How are you feeling" charged the insurance a ~$700 consulting fee. Next to that was the amount paid by the insurance: $0.
It was hilarious to see the charges and total submitted by the hospital in one column (tens of thousands) and the "fuck you, we're paying you this and you'll like it" from the insurance company in the second column (somewhere around 10-20% of that requested).
I'm not sure who was being the bigger dick in this situation, but I didn't pay for anything (except for my monthly $200 pre-tax deduction from my paycheck, which is still pretty crazy, but I ended up utilizing what most people end up just giving away to their insurance company).


Having family in the health industry, I can at least try and explain why they bill so high and why medical insurance companies pay out so low. It was explained to me that usually insurance companies will fight tooth and nail to pay out as little as possible(most of the time for less than is even economically feasible), so to combat this, hospitals charge exuberant amounts and they meet somewhere in the middle. It's pretty much a negotiation.

It is incredibly difficult for a hospital that is not funded by the government to break even let alone make money. Everything is expensive. Most hospitals barely break even, and when the economy takes a dip, a significant number can close down.

>> ^blankfist:
And a lot of people don't pay their bill, and yet they're still allowed under penalty of law to return for service. Someone has to eat that cost, right? Well, welcome to the world of $7000 stitches.


More proof the system is broken.

this is fucked, i feel for the guy and I effing hate the US medical system, nothing makes me want to be an Canadian immigrant more

why go to the hospital for 3 stitches? how about you rub some dirt on it and man up?

>> ^Herostratus:

I have pretty great insurance and was floored by the statement of benefits ("This is not a bill") I received after acute appendicitis. Everything had been covered 100% (including a pic line and once-a-week homecare nurse for a post-op infection), but they sent me the paperwork. It was insane; a doctor who stopped in my hospital room once for less than 5 minutes and merely asked me "How are you feeling" charged the insurance a ~$700 consulting fee. Next to that was the amount paid by the insurance: $0.
It was hilarious to see the charges and total submitted by the hospital in one column (tens of thousands) and the "fuck you, we're paying you this and you'll like it" from the insurance company in the second column (somewhere around 10-20% of that requested).
I'm not sure who was being the bigger dick in this situation, but I didn't pay for anything (except for my monthly $200 pre-tax deduction from my paycheck, which is still pretty crazy, but I ended up utilizing what most people end up just giving away to their insurance company).


I got a similar statement of benefits recently. Thank you for the reference point.

I once mis-dialed a phone number and got the private line of a "lawyer". His practice tracked me down by caller-id and sent me a bill for $75 consultation plus $110 private investigation fee plus tax.

Luckily, a cousin is a minor partner in a large law firm. One letter and I never heard from the shyster again, but DAMN that made me mad.

>> ^blankfist:

Price increases started with government intervention that forced hospitals to treat everyone. Sure we want everyone to be taken care of, but if you come into the hospital with a hangnail or a runny nose, they MUST treat you.
And a lot of people don't pay their bill, and yet they're still allowed under penalty of law to return for service. Someone has to eat that cost, right? Well, welcome to the world of $7000 stitches.

I remember hearing a story from a guy I knew about the days before hospitals were required to treat you, a friend of his got in an auto accident but because he wasn't insured they just let him die. Seriously, I wonder how you can just stand by and watch someone die and still be called a doctor.

I imagine many people don't pay their bill, most uninsured people could never even afford a 7k medical bill anyhow, even if they wanted to pay. So they don't pay and the hospitals have to pass that on to the next guy who comes in, who can't pay either, pretty vicious cycle really.

Canadian: "And all that health care didn't cost ME a cent!"

Always wondered why the Canadian price of paperback novels was typically 2 to 3 dollars more. Looks like the READERS of Canada are subsidizing everyone else's health care!

>> ^chilaxe:

What was the childhood accident?


No kidding, that's what I want to know

Free health care, eh? That will probably come as a surprise to the people who are paying the bills.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Canadian: "And all that health care didn't cost ME a cent!"
Always wondered why the Canadian price of paperback novels was typically 2 to 3 dollars more. Looks like the READERS of Canada are subsidizing everyone else's health care!


You're kidding, 2 to 3 dollars more for paperbacks? Totally not worth it.

Holy snapping ducks feet.

>> ^imstellar28:

why go to the hospital for 3 stitches? how about you rub some dirt on it and man up?


He didn't want a scar on his pretty face.

In all seriousness though, the system is borked. My buddy works as a technician during spinal/neural surgeries. They charge $7000 for a screw.

What all this talk about the rates paid by individuals vs. insurance companies shows is the power of larger pools in negotiations. If we could all negotiate our prices together as a nation, maybe we could work something out that is fair for everybody. Sure, it might cost more than it currently costs those with insurance, but we wouldn't be pushing the costs on to the self/un insured. It's not as though the unconscious guy laying on the hospital bed has much opportunity to shop around and let the free market work its magic.

My daughter got a SINGLE PILL that was $15,000 once. True story! This was the drug:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basiliximab

It arrived into the ICU with a couple people escorting it.

Normal market forces don't apply when the customer is under duress. You don't have time to shop around for the cheapest emergency room, so they charge whatever extortionate rate they want. The same thing would happen if we had a private fire department. They would charge you $10k for less than 2 man hours of actual work putting out your fire.

This is why every decent civilized country in the world has some form of national health service. The USA is not a decent civilized country.

But the guy in the video should have gone to a private practice GP instead of a hospital because it would be a lot cheaper.

Another thing, for most medical services, there is an apalling lack of diclosure of what things will cost before they're bought. Even if you ask a doctor, they don't even know. Now, IANAL, but forming a contract requires the actual informed consent of both sides. You can't become obligated to pay them jack shit unless you sign something agreeing to pay all the as-yet-unspecified costs, which is like handing them a blank check so they can pull ridiculous numbers out of their ass and make you pay it. Such a contract is not really enforceable; you are only obligated to pay the reasonable market costs of the serviced rendered. In a perfect world you shouldn't have any obligation to pay anything unless you are informed of the exact cost before purchasing the service. Unexpected complication costs should be amortized so that there is a clear up-front price that enables competition to exist properly. In addition, there is a strong argument that contracts of adhesion in the context of obtaining urgent medical care are signed under duress and therefore invalid. The guy in the video could just refuse to pay and see if the bastards try to take him to court to get their money. I bet they won't.

Gee - a video where some guy with an axe to grind portrays himself as an innocent victim and paints the other guy as Satan's toilet paper. This is a unique, never before seen thing on Videosift... :eyeroll:

Unlike many, I have a longer historical perspective. Back before Ted Kennedy ruined the American Health Care system with his forced HMO legislation, the U.S. had a truly 'private' system. Hospitals, doctors, and all related services were private, or funded by charitable donations like churches. There was a 'public' arm as well. If a person couldn't pay, they were sent to the COUNTY clinic. County clinics were much cheaper. Doctors & nurses at the county clinics were either still in residency, or were still in the educational process (college). The poor and needy could go to the local county clinic and get good service for a cut-rate price.

Everyone else negotiated with the doctor or hospital at a 1 to 1 level. Prices were affordable, because hospitals would not charge insane prices at the risk of having their customers go to some other doctor. Competition kept things honest. Insurance still existed, but it was CATASTROPHIC CARE insurance which only kicked in for major medical needs like surgeries and so forth. Because of this, insurance was very very cheap.

The solution is not a fake 'public' system like Canada where the government has its death panel to regulate what is covered and what isn't. The solution is not faux socialism that hides the costs, pretending they are 'free', by cramming it into ever-increasing taxation. The solution is total 100% privitization and the abolition of Ted Kennedy's moronic HMO monstrosity that screwed up the system in the first place.

>> ^calvados:
>> ^chilaxe:
What was the childhood accident?

No kidding, that's what I want to know


im guessing it involved batman. I'm just... ya know, putting it out there.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Gee - a video where some guy with an axe to grind portrays himself as an innocent victim and paints the other guy as Satan's toilet paper. This is a unique, never before seen thing on Videosift... :eyeroll:
Unlike many, I have a longer historical perspective. Back before Ted Kennedy ruined the American Health Care system with his forced HMO legislation, the U.S. had a truly 'private' system. Hospitals, doctors, and all related services were private, or funded by charitable donations like churches. There was a 'public' arm as well. If a person couldn't pay, they were sent to the COUNTY clinic. County clinics were much cheaper. Doctors & nurses at the county clinics were either still in residency, or were still in the educational process (college). The poor and needy could go to the local county clinic and get good service for a cut-rate price.
Everyone else negotiated with the doctor or hospital at a 1 to 1 level. Prices were affordable, because hospitals would not charge insane prices at the risk of having their customers go to some other doctor. Competition kept things honest. Insurance still existed, but it was CATASTROPHIC CARE insurance which only kicked in for major medical needs like surgeries and so forth. Because of this, insurance was very very cheap.
The solution is not a fake 'public' system like Canada where the government has its death panel to regulate what is covered and what isn't. The solution is not faux socialism that hides the costs, pretending they are 'free', by cramming it into ever-increasing taxation. The solution is total 100% privitization and the abolition of Ted Kennedy's moronic HMO monstrosity that screwed up the system in the first place.


Wow, you know, once in a great, great while, you make sense, and come off as someone who actually investigates things and comes up with their own view and opinion. Then invariably, as in your last paragraph, you end up talking out your ass.

>> ^blankfist:

Price increases started with government intervention that forced hospitals to treat everyone. Sure we want everyone to be taken care of, but if you come into the hospital with a hangnail or a runny nose, they MUST treat you.
And a lot of people don't pay their bill, and yet they're still allowed under penalty of law to return for service. Someone has to eat that cost, right? Well, welcome to the world of $7000 stitches.

Blankfist, you've got your facts confused. The law you're talking about, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) wasn't in effect until 1986, so it certainly couldn't have been the "start" of price increases which have skyrocketed since the 60's. Furthermore, it does NOT require treatment for something as minor as a hangnail or runny nose. Hospitals are only required to treat when there's a serious emergency and even then they only have to treat the patient enough to stabilize them.


That's not to say EMTALA isn't costing us though, because I'm sure it does. It creates a system where the poor aren't given easy access to cheap preventative medicine, yet are given unlimited expensive emergency care which just seems backwards.

@Quill42. Word. I suppose I misspoke. Then since the '80s we've seen price increases?

Dude, you went to the ER at friggen STANFORD Medical Center in Palo Alto. Be happy that they didn't charge you $15,000.