*promote justice

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Wednesday, January 25th, 2012 1:42pm PST - promote requested by original submitter dystopianfuturetoday.

*talks

Adding video to channels (Talks) - requested by ant.

Two things I never would've imagined 15 years ago:

1. Bill Gates retires and becomes a widely philanthropic figure helping the needy, leaving behind an open, responsive Microsoft.
   
   
2. Steve Jobs dies relatively young, leaving behind an Apple that has become a monopolistic juggernaut fueled by a Faustian fusion of genuine innovation and Chinese slave labor.
   

>> ^NetRunner:

Two things I never would've imagined 15 years ago:

1. Bill Gates retires and becomes a widely philanthropic figure helping the needy, leaving behind an open, responsive Microsoft.
   
2. Steve Jobs dies relatively young, leaving behind an Apple that has become a monopolistic juggernaut fueled by a Faustian fusion of genuine innovation and Chinese slave labor.
   

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.

It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.


"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

Ah, Mr. Mushroom, your'e such a foolish troll. You're always there, behind the scenes, spreading your lack of compassion and lack of knowledge.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

>> ^NetRunner:

Two things I never would've imagined 15 years ago:

1. Bill Gates retires and becomes a widely philanthropic figure helping the needy, leaving behind an open, responsive Microsoft.
   
2. Steve Jobs dies relatively young, leaving behind an Apple that has become a monopolistic juggernaut fueled by a Faustian fusion of genuine innovation and Chinese slave labor.
   

Gates always struck me as the more ruthless businessman, but not a genuine asshole.

MS exists in China, and has popular products here, but obviously has had to adopt a widely different approach to piracy than Apple. While they're not so open, MS is not so restrictive either.

Also, their products don't tend to bring out the worst in people(check out the photos): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/iphone-4s-beijing-apple-store_n_1203661.html>> ^NetRunner:

Two things I never would've imagined 15 years ago:

1. Bill Gates retires and becomes a widely philanthropic figure helping the needy, leaving behind an open, responsive Microsoft.
   
2. Steve Jobs dies relatively young, leaving behind an Apple that has become a monopolistic juggernaut fueled by a Faustian fusion of genuine innovation and Chinese slave labor.
   

Have some compassion for me, I have to suffer these mean comments while carrying the burden of being One with the facts.


>> ^G-bar:

Ah, Mr. Mushroom, your'e such a foolish troll. You're always there, behind the scenes, spreading your lack of compassion and lack of knowledge.
>> ^quantumushroom:
Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

Yeah Bill Gates doesn't know anything. He's a foolish old man who's success can be attributed to luck and only luck. Get real. He didn't say the rich pay small amounts he said he think's they don't pay enough. Being rich doesn't group you with the politicians. They are the reason our debt is so high. Justice is the perfect way to describe the suggested increase in taxes to tackle the problem. The rich is a small group of people and that's how things work. If they don't do something mob mentality will set in and we'll see rich people being strung up by their necks and not their toes. >> ^quantumushroom:

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

First of all you are suggesting that Bill Gates is so rich that he has no idea what he pays in taxes... that when he says that wealthy people should be taxed more he is doing that from a position of ignorance. Astonishing.

As for your quote...

The fundamental issue with your viewpoint is that you see capitalism and socialism as complete and polar oposites that could never meet in the middle. In your ideal world only those who could afford it would be fed, protected, healed, and educated. To hell with those in need.

Somehow this is a better existance than a society that defends and cares for it's weakest members? One that provides an equal oportunity of prosperity for all?

I am both lucky and proud to have been born Canadian. When I first started out I had nothing. Due to a very unsatisfactory home life I left home when I was 17 and dropped out of school. During my early years I had the need to make use of unemployment insurance, welfare, and food banks. I worked a blue collar job while raising my kids and as my income was so low I had my government health premiums subsidized to almost nothing. Eventually I got government student loans and went to school at night to try and change carears to improve my situation. I received grants, deducted what little interest there was on the loans from my income tax and in the end most of the debt was forgiven.

Why am I telling you this? Because today I am a professional making 6 figures a year, I have raised a family of 4 children, and I am closing in on a zero mortgage balance. None of which would have been possible in the world that you wish for.


>> ^quantumushroom:

Have some compassion for me, I have to suffer these mean comments while carrying the burden of being One with the facts.

>> ^G-bar:
Ah, Mr. Mushroom, your'e such a foolish troll. You're always there, behind the scenes, spreading your lack of compassion and lack of knowledge.
>> ^quantumushroom:
Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

That was well said, Deadrisenmortal

That's kind of silly. I mean, here is a person that would be affected negatively by the tax adjustments he's proposing for the cause of aiding the US...and yet here you are, a nobody, with no money, nobody knows who the hell you are telling him that he's wrong. He's telling you that nobody in the super rich community is paying enough. He knows. He knows a lot better than any one of us. I don't get why people like you side with the uber-rich that don't want to pay more in taxes, unless you are a wealthy miser yourself. To be honest I don't even have a problem paying the taxes I pay. And increasing my tax bracket certainly isn't going to keep me from trying to make more money. The only thing I care about is where the money goes. That's where my distrust kicks in. Spending on a country's needs is fine, but squandering is not.

I do agree with you on the point that it shouldn't all be going toward social programs. Especially ones that have no way or desire to stop people milking the system. >> ^quantumushroom:

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

>> ^rottenseed:

I do agree with you on the point that it shouldn't all be going toward social programs. Especially ones that have no way or desire to stop people milking the system.



You mean like Prisons?

although I do think the richest people need to contribute more with higher taxes on their incomes, I also think that problem should be cut at the root of the problem.
Companies need to stop acting like greedy little fucks, and distribute wealth a lot better inside their organizations. It's insulting you have people in a business making minimum wage, and then you have a CEO making millions.
I'm not going the communist way and say that all people need to make the same money, because I don't think that. But I do think the minimum wage and maximum wage need to be brought closer all over the world.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY deserves more than 10k/month for their work. And no one deserves to have their work valued at a few cents per days.

QM is a troll. you can't reason with him. He contributes nothing to the sift yet he is allowed to continue to post.

If he actually presented reasoned arguments for his viewpoints, that would be one thing...but he doesn't.

He even said it himself. He is the One. He thinks he's a messianic Neo. Get rid of him.

Bill Gates - and all the ProgLibDytes on the forum - entirely miss the point.

You could take every single member of the top 5% of the United States and immediately confiscate 100% of all their wealth, income, assets, property, and leave them penniless paupers in the gutter. It would not so much as balance the Federal Government's budget for one QUARTER, let alone a whole fiscal year. The problem is not that taxes on the rich are too 'low' (they certainly aren't). The problem is that government spends too much money on crap that government has no business spending so much as one thin dime on (IE all the social programs). Government has over-promised on too many things to too many groups for far too long. They foot a bill too long for their purse and can't pay it - no matter how much it taxes the rich, corporations, or anyone else.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Warren Buffett's secretary (also rich), Hollywood, and all the other rich idiots with their crocodile tears about not being taxed enough... Every single one of these hypocrites has the address of the National Treasury, and can write out checks giving every penny they earn to the government. They can fire thier accountants tomorrow and not use all the exemptions they fight so hard to maximize. They don't need thier taxes raised. They could pay higher taxes this very instant under current law.

So why don't they? Simple. They know government is a terrible place to put money.

Gates is dumping money into private philanthropical efforts - which shows that he hasn't completely lost his wits (even though he's talking like a total moron in this clip). No one believes that giving the government more money is a good idea. The US government is one of the most wasteful, and least efficient organizations on the planet. Bill Gates knows this. So it isn't hard for him to figure out that "the nation" would be better served dumping his money in an incinerator rather than pay the Feds more tax money.

So what's with these hypocritical screeds that rich sleazeballs like Buffett? The answer is also quite simple. They are doing nothing more than mouthing platitudes specifically to assuage all you ProgLibDyte peons with your class warfare pitchforks.

It is quite amusintg, really, just how easily and thoroughly people on the left like the Sift are duped. All Gates has to do is go on a show here, or a show there, and say a few of the correct leftist catchphrases. Then suddenly all the lemmings are literally knocking each other over to be the first in line to start french kissing Gates or Buffett's duodenum.

See - that's what's so funny. You ProgLibDytes don't care that Gates is laughing his way to the bank, and that he will NEVER pay a cent more in taxes than he has to. Oh no. That doesn't matter. All that matters to all you agenda slaves is that he blathers the right sound bite at you. Then your ideological addictions get thier nice little junkie fix, and you're putty in his hands, laughing at you because he knoew (A) he isn't going to pay more taxes and (B) all he has to do is keep shunting a few bucks at the right leftist radicals and he will have political protection payola shielding him for life. And all he needs too keep the racket going is a bunch of you simpletons brainlessly following your left-wing marching orders so he has a permanent audience to sing to. How's it feel knowing you're the intellectual equivalent of Bill Gates' used condom?

WP, you make an interesting narrative, all of it made up to fit the way you want things to be, not on the way they are.

Unless, of course, you've interviewed all the rich people you suggest you know. Then I'd really like to read your notes.

Romney gave 15% of his income to charity. Obama gave 1%.

Does that make Obama a 1%er?

Is it fair.

How about we pass a law requiring everyone to give 15% to charity?

Get your checkbook out.

I paid 35% last year. Why the fuck should Romney pay 13.9%?

Stop defending that asshole. Are you a millionaire? This serf mentality kills me.>> ^lantern53:

Romney gave 15% of his income to charity. Obama gave 1%.
Does that make Obama a 1%er?
Is it fair.
How about we pass a law requiring everyone to give 15% to charity?
Get your checkbook out.

>> ^longde:

I paid 35% last year. Why the fuck should Romney pay 13.9%?
Stop defending that asshole. Are you a millionaire? This serf mentality kills me.>> ^lantern53:
Romney gave 15% of his income to charity. Obama gave 1%.
Does that make Obama a 1%er?
Is it fair.
How about we pass a law requiring everyone to give 15% to charity?
Get your checkbook out.



The 100% serious straight faced republican answer is "because he's a better* person than you".

That is actually the mindset.

*richer = all round better human being

@ChaosEngine

You nailed it.

Guys like @quantumushroom,@Winstonfield_Pennypacker and @lantern53 are all Bigoted Privileged White Males who Idolize the Wealthy Privileged White Males:
The class/culture they most admire and would like to be a part of one day.

You know, they're like the humans that do the bidding of Vampires in the hopes they'll be made into immortals in exchange for their blind faith and service.

..but who are really just fodder for their political business masters.

They're stuck in a 19th century mindset of absolutes. "Smart people are smart. Dumb people are dumb."

That's why QM, Pennypacker and Lantern all reason:

P1: Rich people are rich.
P2: Being rich is a quality predetermined by God or genetics or culture.

Therefore, anyone who is rich deserves to be rich [as fucking possible with no limits whatsoever].

They never stop to think outside this system of logic.

Wouldn't it follow that the more the rich carry everyone else's burden, that the more the gov't is beholden to them?

I don't want to be owing the rich anything.

I think they should pay the same as everyone else.

THAT would be truly fair.

My friend, the government is already beholden to the rich. Always has been. But today, you can argue that the rich have not had more influence over our government since the robber baron days. Especially since the Citizens United ruling.

So why not make them pay for it? They get the benefit of living at the top of the heap in the best nation on earth. Why not at least pay the same rate a working stiff has to pay?>> ^lantern53:

Wouldn't it follow that the more the rich carry everyone else's burden, that the more the gov't is beholden to them?
I don't want to be owing the rich anything.
I think they should pay the same as everyone else.
THAT would be truly fair.

@lantern53 Besides, isn't government in theory providing the same services to the poor as they do for the rich? What's the justification for the rich paying a higher price for the same thing? That's like a store that charges higher prices if you have a higher income.

@longde aren't the rich already providing something to society in exchange for the money that makes them rich?

Bill is just pandering to his low/middle class customer base that buys most of his products.

QM commandeers the faleboat to videosift every morning, yet I hope they won't just ban him because just because of his opinion. He does have some hilarious posts when he is not talking about how liberals/Obama raped this planet. Just use your ignore feature if you feel that strongly about him. I do find him to be entertaining at times to be honest, and everyone has a right to speak their mind.

>> ^VoodooV:

QM is a troll. you can't reason with him. He contributes nothing to the sift yet he is allowed to continue to post.
If he actually presented reasoned arguments for his viewpoints, that would be one thing...but he doesn't.
He even said it himself. He is the One. He thinks he's a messianic Neo. Get rid of him.

>> ^lantern53:

Romney gave 15% of his income to charity. Obama gave 1%.
Does that make Obama a 1%er?
Is it fair.
How about we pass a law requiring everyone to give 15% to charity?
Get your checkbook out.


The Mormon church is not charity.

>> ^renatojj:

@lantern53 Besides, isn't government in theory providing the same services to the poor as they do for the rich? What's the justification for the rich paying a higher price for the same thing? That's like a store that charges higher prices if you have a higher income.
@longde aren't the rich already providing something to society in exchange for the money that makes them rich?
Bill is just pandering to his low/middle class customer base that buys most of his products.


Nope, have you ever noticed how low income folk use the bus while you sit your fat ass in a car? We all pay for the roads but only the middle class and above get to use them. Next consider that you have no concept of how many services businesses take advantage of to protect their employees. Those services are there to take care of meaningless peons who work at mcdonalds and walmart etc.

I dare any conservative to actually read every word in this article.

The 100% serious straight faced republican answer is "because he's a better* person than you".

No - the answer is that you guys are comparing grapes and basketballs and then bellyaching about how it "isn't fair" that the grape doesn't bounce as high as a basketball. It accomplishes nothing except to prove how woefully ignorant you are, and how horribly succeptible you are to leftist bull$#!t.

I'll try to put this in a way that even a ProgLibDyte could understand... There's two reasons Romney only paid 13.9% taxes....

1. Most of his income was from capital gains investments - which are taxed at much lower rates than income taxes in nations all over the planet. This is because capital gains investments are (A) risky and (B) directly benefit the business sector. So capital gains investments are a behavior that should be rewarded - and even the government knows this. That's why CGI rates are only 15% even for guys like Buffett because government wants them dumping money into business capital to stimulate growth - and they aren't going to penalize that highly beneficial behavior with punitive tax rates just because you are stupid and feel butthurt about it.

2. Mitt Romney donated 15% of his income to charity - which is tax deductible. It is another thing that is never going to change, because giving money to a private charity is a bilion times more efficient than giving it to government, and that kind of behavior should be rewarded.

So we have a Videosift guy who is whining about having to pay 35% on his wages but Mitt only had to pay 13.9% on his capital gains. Mitt's lower rate has nothing to do with him being 'better' or anything of the sort. It is entirely because Mitt's wealth is earned in an entirely different way.

That's reality guys. I know it is not convenient to the liberal worldview, but even your left-wing radical pals like Bill Maher, Al Sharpton, and all the rest do the exact same things as Romney once they have earned enough money. And yet you don't seem to care about that. Curious. Very curious indeed, this thing you call 'selective outrage'... Facts are facts, and for true INCOME (not CGI) Mitt, Buffett, Gates, and everyone else pay higher taxes than you (or the same if you happen to hit the highest tax tier). The only way you leftists can ever conjure up your fakey, bologna arguments is to cook the books and crosstalk about completely different things. It is bullcrap, but you guys wolf it down like chocolate cake. Just proves how dumb you are when it comes to economics.

Ah, liberalsift. Well, I've got no one to blame but me. First, I have to CLARIFY my own wisdom.

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.

OK, so the liberalsift assumption is Gates KNOWS the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates. What does Gates think the government is going to do with even more tax money? Suddenly become efficient? Pay down debts and cut up the credit cards? BTW, when taxes go up, they don't just go up on the rich. YOU will be paying for the tax hike in the prices of goods and services YOU purchase. Not even the super-rich live in a vacuum. Google "Microsoft layoffs."

It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

I didn't say tax the poor at 50%, I said they should be "chipping in". At what rates, I don't know, but I know it should be more than f--king ZERO.

First of all you are suggesting that Bill Gates is so rich that he has no idea what he pays in taxes... that when he says that wealthy people should be taxed more he is doing that from a position of ignorance. Astonishing.

Rich people can be quite ignorant. Oprah is, and Obama, also rich, doesn't seem to know anything about economics.

As for your quote...

The fundamental issue with your viewpoint is that you see capitalism and socialism as complete and polar oposites that could never meet in the middle. In your ideal world only those who could afford it would be fed, protected, healed, and educated. To hell with those in need.

That's not my viewpoint, however I am extremely skeptical of the so-called "Third Way". Socialism always fails, and capitalism fails when oversaturated with socialism. Look at Europe.

Somehow this is a better existance than a society that defends and cares for it's weakest members? One that provides an equal oportunity of prosperity for all?

I am both lucky and proud to have been born Canadian. When I first started out I had nothing. Due to a very unsatisfactory home life I left home when I was 17 and dropped out of school. During my early years I had the need to make use of unemployment insurance, welfare, and food banks. I worked a blue collar job while raising my kids and as my income was so low I had my government health premiums subsidized to almost nothing. Eventually I got government student loans and went to school at night to try and change carears to improve my situation. I received grants, deducted what little interest there was on the loans from my income tax and in the end most of the debt was forgiven.

Why am I telling you this? Because today I am a professional making 6 figures a year, I have raised a family of 4 children, and I am closing in on a zero mortgage balance. None of which would have been possible in the world that you wish for.

I salute your inspiring life story. The system worked for you, but you still did most of the work. The suggestion that you never would've made it without all the aid I do not believe. What about your neighbor who is perfectly happy living off of unemployment insurance, welfare, food banks, etc. forever? Are you willing to support those who won't--not can't--work as hard as you? Why should you have to raise his children with your taxes along with your own?

I'm not advocating Lord of the Flies, I'm saying the left needs to get its head out of the clouds. There are no solutions in life, only trade-offs.










>> ^Deadrisenmortal:

First of all you are suggesting that Bill Gates is so rich that he has no idea what he pays in taxes... that when he says that wealthy people should be taxed more he is doing that from a position of ignorance. Astonishing.
As for your quote...
The fundamental issue with your viewpoint is that you see capitalism and socialism as complete and polar oposites that could never meet in the middle. In your ideal world only those who could afford it would be fed, protected, healed, and educated. To hell with those in need.
Somehow this is a better existance than a society that defends and cares for it's weakest members? One that provides an equal oportunity of prosperity for all?
I am both lucky and proud to have been born Canadian. When I first started out I had nothing. Due to a very unsatisfactory home life I left home when I was 17 and dropped out of school. During my early years I had the need to make use of unemployment insurance, welfare, and food banks. I worked a blue collar job while raising my kids and as my income was so low I had my government health premiums subsidized to almost nothing. Eventually I got government student loans and went to school at night to try and change carears to improve my situation. I received grants, deducted what little interest there was on the loans from my income tax and in the end most of the debt was forgiven.
Why am I telling you this? Because today I am a professional making 6 figures a year, I have raised a family of 4 children, and I am closing in on a zero mortgage balance. None of which would have been possible in the world that you wish for.

>>

@Peroxide I can't understand your post where you quoted me, sorry

That's kind of silly. I mean, here is a person that would be affected negatively by the tax adjustments he's proposing for the cause of aiding the US...and yet here you are, a nobody, with no money, nobody knows who the hell you are telling him that he's wrong.

As an American, I am free to tell anyone they are wrong, even the current President who is wrong 98% of the time. No one seems to have a problem telling me I'm wrong.

Do you think I'm a "nobody" because I have "no" money? DEMOCRAT Thomas Jefferson died broke. Was he a nobody?

He's telling you that nobody in the super rich community is paying enough. He knows.
He knows a lot better than any one of us. I don't get why people like you side with the uber-rich that don't want to pay more in taxes, unless you are a wealthy miser yourself.

No, I would say most of the sifters make more than me, for now. My beef is what you and apparently Gates think the guvmint is going to do with the "extra" cash, since the bastards already make and borrow on their own, at our peril. Remember that magical trillion Obama spent with no results?

To be honest I don't even have a problem paying the taxes I pay. And increasing my tax bracket certainly isn't going to keep me from trying to make more money. The only thing I care about is where the money goes. That's where my distrust kicks in. Spending on a country's needs is fine, but squandering is not.

Just Medicare fraud costs us 60 billion dollars a year. A YEAR. And no one seems to give a damn. Do you? So yeah, the "poor" with their two cars, appliances, 3 tvs, and most owning their own homes should be paying more than ZERO. Maybe they'll be less tolerant of their brethren grifting the system.












>> ^rottenseed:

That's kind of silly. I mean, here is a person that would be affected negatively by the tax adjustments he's proposing for the cause of aiding the US...and yet here you are, a nobody, with no money, nobody knows who the hell you are telling him that he's wrong. He's telling you that nobody in the super rich community is paying enough. He knows. He knows a lot better than any one of us. I don't get why people like you side with the uber-rich that don't want to pay more in taxes, unless you are a wealthy miser yourself. To be honest I don't even have a problem paying the taxes I pay. And increasing my tax bracket certainly isn't going to keep me from trying to make more money. The only thing I care about is where the money goes. That's where my distrust kicks in. Spending on a country's needs is fine, but squandering is not.
I do agree with you on the point that it shouldn't all be going toward social programs. Especially ones that have no way or desire to stop people milking the system. >> ^quantumushroom:
Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

Guys like @quantumushroom,@Winstonfield_Pennypacker and @lantern53 are all Bigoted Privileged White Males who Idolize the Wealthy Privileged White Males:
The class/culture they most admire and would like to be a part of one day.


Doesn't this mean you're bigoted against Wealthy Privileged White Males? I don't know lantern and Pennypacker personally and have no idea what "color" they are or their levels of income. I like both, and rest assured, W. Pennypacker doesn't appreciate my incendiary rhetoric.


You know, they're like the humans that do the bidding of Vampires in the hopes they'll be made into immortals in exchange for their blind faith and service.
..but who are really just fodder for their political business masters.


Yeah, I've seen the Blade trilogy, thanks. The third one sucked, and I don't mean blood.

BTW, You nailed it. I'm secretly worshiping Gates, an unlikable nerd who released Windows Sh1tsa so Windows 7 would look good by comparison. I don't want him to pay higher taxes because I'm going to be as rich as him next week.


>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

@ChaosEngine
You nailed it.
Guys like @quantumushroom,@Winstonfield_Pennypacker and @lantern53 are all Bigoted Privileged White Males who Idolize the Wealthy Privileged White Males:
The class/culture they most admire and would like to be a part of one day.
You know, they're like the humans that do the bidding of Vampires in the hopes they'll be made into immortals in exchange for their blind faith and service.
..but who are really just fodder for their political business masters.

Well Said.
You must be one of those 1%ers of educated elite who post at this site.

Keep educating the other 99%. Granted they are dumber than a bag of hammers and need to be enlightened.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

Wow, I am a bit taken aback by your soft and somewhat flattering response. When I first saw the email that said you had quoted me I braced myself for the typical QM "both barrels" response. Thank you for surprising me.

As far as what social economic system is better than another I would suggest that pure capitalism would likely also fail. History has shown us that when too few have too much and too many have too little the many take drastic steps to redistribute the wealth themselves. Look at the history of Europe.

The human element adds uncertainty and chaos to any system and subsequently all systems are inherently flawed. That is why there are regulating bodies that are meant to enforce the will of the people. When the regulations or those who enforce them are negatively interfered with, society either in part or as a whole, must fail.

I pay about 32% income tax and from what I can figure that number rises to more than 50% when you factor in property tax, sales tax, fuel tax, etc. Despite this burden I do very well so if a portion of these taxes are going to help some person from a poor household to get a better education or it provides care for an elderly person who has no means to support themselves, or even if it goes to the rehabilitation of a young prostitute with a meth addiction I am okay with that. Better roads, better schools, better hospitals, law enforcement, fire protection, it is in support of these socialistically supported things and more that I accept the reduction of half of my earned income.

There will always be people who get what they don't deserve but for the sake of those that do deserve our help I think that we must accept that.
<Insert the clichéd “bad apples” quote here.>

If my contribution can give one person the chance to change their future like I did it is worth it to me.

>> ^quantumushroom:

First of all you are suggesting that Bill Gates is so rich that he has no idea what he pays in taxes... that when he says that wealthy people should be taxed more he is doing that from a position of ignorance. Astonishing.
Rich people can be quite ignorant. Oprah is, and Obama, also rich, doesn't seem to know anything about economics.

As for your quote...
The fundamental issue with your viewpoint is that you see capitalism and socialism as complete and polar oposites that could never meet in the middle. In your ideal world only those who could afford it would be fed, protected, healed, and educated. To hell with those in need.
That's not my viewpoint, however I am extremely skeptical of the so-called "Third Way". Socialism always fails, and capitalism fails when oversaturated with socialism. Look at Europe.
Somehow this is a better existance than a society that defends and cares for it's weakest members? One that provides an equal oportunity of prosperity for all?
I am both lucky and proud to have been born Canadian. When I first started out I had nothing. Due to a very unsatisfactory home life I left home when I was 17 and dropped out of school. During my early years I had the need to make use of unemployment insurance, welfare, and food banks. I worked a blue collar job while raising my kids and as my income was so low I had my government health premiums subsidized to almost nothing. Eventually I got government student loans and went to school at night to try and change carears to improve my situation. I received grants, deducted what little interest there was on the loans from my income tax and in the end most of the debt was forgiven.
Why am I telling you this? Because today I am a professional making 6 figures a year, I have raised a family of 4 children, and I am closing in on a zero mortgage balance. None of which would have been possible in the world that you wish for.
I salute your inspiring life story. The system worked for you, but you still did most of the work. The suggestion that you never would've made it without all the aid I do not believe. What about your neighbor who is perfectly happy living off of unemployment insurance, welfare, food banks, etc. forever? Are you willing to support those who won't--not can't--work as hard as you? Why should you have to raise his children with your taxes along with your own?
I'm not advocating Lord of the Flies, I'm saying the left needs to get its head out of the clouds. There are no solutions in life, only trade-offs.
>> ^Deadrisenmortal:
First of all you are suggesting that Bill Gates is so rich that he has no idea what he pays in taxes... that when he says that wealthy people should be taxed more he is doing that from a position of ignorance. Astonishing.
As for your quote...
The fundamental issue with your viewpoint is that you see capitalism and socialism as complete and polar oposites that could never meet in the middle. In your ideal world only those who could afford it would be fed, protected, healed, and educated. To hell with those in need.
Somehow this is a better existance than a society that defends and cares for it's weakest members? One that provides an equal oportunity of prosperity for all?
I am both lucky and proud to have been born Canadian. When I first started out I had nothing. Due to a very unsatisfactory home life I left home when I was 17 and dropped out of school. During my early years I had the need to make use of unemployment insurance, welfare, and food banks. I worked a blue collar job while raising my kids and as my income was so low I had my government health premiums subsidized to almost nothing. Eventually I got government student loans and went to school at night to try and change carears to improve my situation. I received grants, deducted what little interest there was on the loans from my income tax and in the end most of the debt was forgiven.
Why am I telling you this? Because today I am a professional making 6 figures a year, I have raised a family of 4 children, and I am closing in on a zero mortgage balance. None of which would have been possible in the world that you wish for.

>>

It's true that pure capitalism works for some, it's very popular in Mogadishu and amongst warring species of coral.

As for Europe, were you thinking of Berlin, Athens, Oslo or Copenhagen? Because those last 2 are the closest thing to a non-vampiric success story in human social construction.

>> ^quantumushroom:


That's not my viewpoint, however I am extremely skeptical of the so-called "Third Way". Socialism always fails, and capitalism fails when oversaturated with socialism. Look at Europe.

So we have a Videosift guy who is whining about having to pay 35% on his wages but Mitt only had to pay 13.9% on his capital gains. Mitt's lower rate has nothing to do with him being 'better' or anything of the sort. It is entirely because Mitt's wealth is earned in an entirely different way.

@Winstonfield_Pennypacker Spoken like someone who gets a tax refund in April instead of having to write a big check.

No fucking shit it was taxed differently because he earned it in a different way. That's the core of the dispute: most taxpayers want all types of income taxed the same way.

And it wasn't always this way. The capital gains rate was dropped in '97 from 28% to 20%, and Bush pushed it down to 15% with his devastating (because it wiped out the surpluses we had) tax cut.

As to your rationale:

This is because capital gains investments are (A) risky and (B) directly benefit the business sector.

Anybody in the workforce can say the same. Having a job is highly risky, especially these days. And what job doesn't directly benefit the business sector? Even the guy scrubbing the company restroom is adding value.

Your second comment was about his charitable contributions. There is no way I could reduce my tax to 13.9% by giving 15% of my money to charity. If I could, I would. And half of Romney's charity was to an institution he's an insider of, the Mormon Church. I don't mind considering church donations as charity, but clearly Romney is not some ordinary parishioner giving to his church. He was an elder of that institution and still has a large influence.

I've got two more points to make.

1) I just explained above how the capital tax rate was lowered in steps starting in 1997. Conservatives always like to say that reducing taxes helps the economy. Well, we have had a 15 year test bed for this theory. Has the result been what conservatives have promised? Where are all the jobs that were to be created? It seems to me that given more of their money back, the rich just invest it overseas or in investment vehicles that do little to help ordinary working americans.

2) Let's talk about how Mitt earned his wealth and money. He earned it by effectively weakening american industry and promoting outsourcing via his vulture capital operation. His taxes should be double the 35% rate for the damage he did to earn his wealth, IMO. If you want to defend rich peoples' lower tax rates, Mitt is the wrong poster child.

agree. more taxes? name one time a tax solved a complex social issue. read a book people.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

World War 2. Without expanding the income tax, we'd all be speaking German now.>> ^yourhydra:

agree. more taxes? name one time a tax solved a complex social issue. read a book people.
>> ^quantumushroom:
Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

>> ^VoodooV:

QM is a troll. you can't reason with him. He contributes nothing to the sift yet he is allowed to continue to post.
If he actually presented reasoned arguments for his viewpoints, that would be one thing...but he doesn't.
He even said it himself. He is the One. He thinks he's a messianic Neo. Get rid of him.


One thing QM doesn't do on the Sift? Personally attack other people who disagree with him.

You are also describing a Videosift where only people of a certain type are welcome.

How utterly, mindnumbingly, boring.

Sorry but you obviously don't understand anything about Medicare fraud, because virtually 100% of Medicare fraud is perpetuated by the Doctors themselves NOT the patients.

Don't believe me look at your last hospital bill and ask them why it cost you $100 for a pillow $300 for a blanket $1000 for a pair of forceps, $500 for a meal.

I get shots at my doctor for pain that cost me $2500 a shot I asked the insurance company why they cost so much and they said they were listed as "experimental" so I asked my Doctor what they were and he told me they were just normal lidocaine shots like a Dentist uses, they probably cost the Doctor $20 bucks each.

And last time I checked Doctors don't need welfare.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Just Medicare fraud costs us 60 billion dollars a year. A YEAR. And no one seems to give a damn. Do you? So yeah, the "poor" with their two cars, appliances, 3 tvs, and most owning their own homes should be paying more than ZERO. Maybe they'll be less tolerant of their brethren grifting the system.






>> ^rottenseed:
That's kind of silly. I mean, here is a person that would be affected negatively by the tax adjustments he's proposing for the cause of aiding the US...and yet here you are, a nobody, with no money, nobody knows who the hell you are telling him that he's wrong. He's telling you that nobody in the super rich community is paying enough. He knows. He knows a lot better than any one of us. I don't get why people like you side with the uber-rich that don't want to pay more in taxes, unless you are a wealthy miser yourself. To be honest I don't even have a problem paying the taxes I pay. And increasing my tax bracket certainly isn't going to keep me from trying to make more money. The only thing I care about is where the money goes. That's where my distrust kicks in. Spending on a country's needs is fine, but squandering is not.
I do agree with you on the point that it shouldn't all be going toward social programs. Especially ones that have no way or desire to stop people milking the system. >> ^quantumushroom:
Ah, Gates. Another zillionaire apparently unaware the wealthy already pay the most in taxes, and at higher tax rates.
It's the 'bottom' 50% presently paying no income tax but gobbling up plenty of "free services" that should be chipping in.

"What do you call it when someone steals someone else's money secretly? Theft. What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." ---T. Sowell

Quoting ettiquette!!!

Socialized medicine FTW!

I have a friend in London who is pretty sick suddenly with a mystery illness (which happened when he flew to LA to meet Simon Cowell.. Hmm)

He went to the doctor, who put him in an ambulance and took him to Euston Hospital. They gave him a barrage of tests, and a week later brought him back in for some more specialized ones. He's waiting for the results now, hopefully he'll be fine.

How much did it cost him? NOTHING.
How much is he stressed about money? NOT AT ALL.
Does he feel like his society cares about his welfare or how much cash can be made off his suffering and death? GUESS.

>> ^Auger8:

Sorry but you obviously don't understand anything about Medicare fraud, because virtually 100% of Medicare fraud is perpetuated by the Doctors themselves NOT the patients.
Don't believe me look at your last hospital bill and ask them why it cost you $100 for a pillow $300 for a blanket $1000 for a pair of forceps, $500 for a meal.
I get shots at my doctor for pain that cost me $2500 a shot I asked the insurance company why they cost so much and they said they were listed as "experimental" so I asked my Doctor what they were and he told me they were just normal lidocaine shots like a Dentist uses, they probably cost the Doctor $20 bucks each.

I think it's worth reminding you of the context here.

For one, if work is the thing we want to encourage, then why should Mitt Romney's taxes be lower than it is on people whose income actually comes from wages?

All Romney's doing is collecting interest on investments. Worse than that, he claims it's all in a blind trust, which means not only is he not exerting any control over where his money is being invested, he doesn't even know where his money has been invested.

To me, the big problem I have with the picture of the "neighbor" who "won't work" is that they don't actually exist. Nobody is living high on the government dole. Welfare queens never existed, and never will.

Instead, the real "entitlement society" is comprised of people like Paris Hilton. They don't really work, certainly they don't do hard work, or even seem to possess valuable skills. They just collect interest, and act like they're royalty, entitled to collect the vast majority of the fruits of our labor.
>> ^quantumushroom:

I salute your inspiring life story. The system worked for you, but you still did most of the work. The suggestion that you never would've made it without all the aid I do not believe. What about your neighbor who is perfectly happy living off of unemployment insurance, welfare, food banks, etc. forever? Are you willing to support those who won't--not can't--work as hard as you? Why should you have to raise his children with your taxes along with your own?

*dead

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