...What do you mean "even cops in Utah"? As if you thought Utah is special?
More fucking liars. Never met a cop that wasn't one.
She had no reason to question him in the first place, and no reason to demand ID. (EDIT: Maybe that's wrong, apparently Utah is a 'show me your papers' state where demanding ID for no reason is legal?)
Never say a word beyond "I want my lawyer."
"What's your name?"..."I want my lawyer"...."What's your date of birth?"..."I want my lawyer."..."Are you not going to answer my questions?"..."I want my lawyer."...."Can you sit in my police car for my protection?"..."I want my lawyer." Best advice I ever got...from a lawyer. Anything else you say may be used against you, or lied about then used against you (as in this case).

She lies "I saw you, and I wanted to see if you'd be honest with me", but neglects to finish the thought 'because I'm a bold faced liar and I'm going to lie about seeing you smoking to try to get you to admit to a crime I can harass you for, and if that won't work I'll harass you in another way.'.
Name and badge number, and where's my lawyer? Please put their name on the internet.

Well this is a very interesting video, because I'm trying to figure out wtf UTA stands for, I'm thinking it's Utah Transit Authority or something. So do they have a rule about not smoking on UTA property? That's got to be it.

I'm thinking these two male cops are thinking what a lot of male cops think, which is why the fuck did this little woman become a police officer.
But i got to cover her ass because she probably can't fight her way out of a wet paper bag. She probably needs to get into the DARE program so her biggest challenge is keeping 7 yr olds from putting boogers on her pantleg.

Of course, some women cops are pretty awesome, pretty fearless, and quite useful. Some, like I suspect this one, is pretty worthless.

I don't understand why they trespassed this guy from UTA property however. I just don't see how that's legal.

The whole interaction is quite irritating because I have to agree with the hoodie guy, nothing makes sense.

Which is fine as far as it goes, until he starts painting all cops are brainless gov't toads who sponge off the taxpayer etc etc etc. You lost me there, boss, because now you're insulting my avocation, in which I take a lot of pride.

Lemme give you an example of police work. Yesterday I helped a lady who had an auto accident, her brand new Mini Cooper got destroyed by some little juvenile driving a big ass Jeep Cherokee.

Today I assisted my Lt. with a neighbor complaint, some jerkoff who sounded like he had 18 Red Bulls for breakfast and wouldn't shut the fuck up had thrown a bunch of trash over a patio divider in an apt. complex because he thought his Latvian neighbor was making too much noise. Nobody got arrested, we were just there trying to resolve these two idiots from killing each other.

Then today I drove some old handicapped biddy 15 miles down the road so she could be with her husband who was having hip surgery. it took us a good 30 minutes to find out where the old codger was but we did it.

Two other officers responded to a family who called about their grown son who was off his meds and had a knife...we've been to this house dozens of times because the son is a fucking mental. I thought for sure this guy would get shot dead today, but turns out he was just arrested and transported to the PD for processing.

A couple of people got arrested for shoplifting, nobody got beat, they got a piece of paper with a court date on it.

etc etc etc

But no, this 'hispanic' dude has to jump to 15 conclusions about what ALL police officers do and it's total bullshit.

Dude, you're about as idiotic as these phony UTA cops.

You can't understand why he feels that way?

You take umbrage to peoples perception of police officers, yes? You think it's grossly unfair that people classify all of you by the actions of the notable few?

Well here's a little news flash. You get to take off your uniform at the end of the shift. You can go to a restaurant or a shopping center and be perfectly fine with no one sitting around thinking you're a fascist police state tool because of what you wear rather than who you are.

The guy in the video? He doesn't get to take off his skin. He doesn't get to stop being viewed with suspicion, doesn't stop getting harassed by idiots who don't care for the truth and are purely in it to pick on people and raise revenue. He lives with people making assumptions about him 24/7 because of who he is, not because of what he does.

Dig deep down and find that empathy that seems to be lurking in there somewhere. Assuming your one of the good guys (and apologies but your posting history doesn't really support that), don't you feel a deep abiding embarrassment when you see these yahoos make every cop look worse because of their actions?

Yes, it's not fair that people will ascribe the actions of a few bad eggs to an entire population. Not fair for anyone that is victimised by it.

Just because he's a victim doesnt make him correct about everything.

I can empathize with his dilemma but not his reasoning.

As usual, the "victim" escalated things for no good reason. First by ignoring the cop, then by refusing to cooperate and being confrontational. And then he becomes frustrated when they start ignoring his questions.

The entire situation could have been avoided if he had simply and politely stated that he wasn't smoking when first asked. It's amazing what a little bit of courtesy and common sense can achieve. Just because you have the legal right to act like a douche doesn't mean you should act like a douche.

While the cop is completely and utterly in the wrong, the video goes off at the end on some stupid libertarian nonsense, and then goes full-on godwin.

Interestingly, even the owner of the channel now admits that his language at the end is inflammatory and counter-productive.

None of which justifies his appalling treatment.

Except he did state that he doesn't smoke and has never smoked once in his life, which would kind of imply that he wasn't smoking. But I doubt even a simple answer of no would have made a difference because she later states that she SAW him smoking, probably betting that if it came down to her word against his she would win out.
The document signing bit had me wondering a little, by signing are you just acknowledging the receipt of the citation? Or by signing it are you actually admitting to something? Otherwise why are they trying to strong arm him into signing with threats of bigger penalties?
Finally, the devils advocate in me finds the Libertarian rants a little suspicious and can't help but wonder if maybe he was smoking because he was cop trolling so he could make a standing up to the man video.

The problem here seems to be more the system. I can imagine the cop might be considering some citation quota that she has to meet. Meanwhile, it's also likely her performance is in no way measured by the satisfaction level of the region she polices. There's also the possible racial factor but that's a whole more complicated can of worms.

Motion for a change of venue. I don't think ALL COPS can get a fair trial on the Internet.

By answering the questions that he did, he gave them authority to cite him for loitering. All he needed to do was to say he doesn't answer questions and refuse his ID unless they cite him with a crime. Had he done that and kept his mouth shut, they could still have cited him, but taking it to court with the video would have let him walk on paying.

As far as signing a citation, it depends on locality, but most simply require you to sign to swear you will appear in court. They usually have a disclaimer that says something along the lines of "signing this document does not admit guilt, etc"

Those cops are idiots, and this was pathetic.

But in the end all that neo-liberal tirade about society not needing cops? Give me a fucking break.

Yeah, he eventually stated that he didn't smoke, after a few minutes of being a confrontational jackass. And yes, the cop did claim that she saw him smoking, but again, after a few minutes of him being a confrontational jackass. And of course, there is the distinct possibility that he was in fact smoking and just lied about it so he could make yet another sensationalistic anti-cop video.

The latter can't be proven based on the video alone but what can be proven is that he handled the situation badly. Only way he could have handled it worse is if he punched the cop. It's important to remember that cops are human. If you antagonize them, they'll probably find some way to get back at you. Should they? No, but until we replace human cops with robot cops, emotions will always be a factor. As with any human interaction, it is usually in your best interest to remain civil and cooperative.

LMAO. Wow the double-standard is strong with this one.


So you'll defend this - in your own words - victim, of police harassment..

And even openly question & scold the officer as WORTHLESS..

For trying to bring trumped up Trepassing charges against him..

However, in the Arizona Iced Tea scenario..

A scenario which is nearly almost precisely the same..

You'll take the exact OPPOSITE stance..

And defend the clearly UNCONSTITUTIONALLY wrong officer..

And deride the victim for his objection to an illegal detention, search & seizure and arrest?

Please explain yourself, Lantern

Please explain why you'd treat - basically the same situation - in two vastly different ways.

*grabs popcorn*

So, it's not the lying cop that's confrontational in your eyes?
We know she lied about seeing him because she doesn't give him a 'smoking in public' ticket, which I'm 99.99999% certain she would have written if she had actually seen him smoking.

I agree, he handled it badly, but I say he handled it badly because he spoke to the cop at all.

It is NOT in your best interest to remain cooperative with a cop....EVER. If they ask you a question, it's only asked to find a crime to charge you with. ANY question you answer is enough for them to lie and say 'he sounded drunk/high/angry/slow/like he was lying' and continue interrogating and investigating you, or just plain arrest you, then claim you said something completely different (prime example: see this video where she claims he never said he didn't smoke, although the video proves he DID say he never smoked in his life, but cops are all 'professionally' trained liars and most will lie about you to find something to charge you with). Don't give them a thing to twist into something to investigate or charge you with...not a god damn word. If you say nothing, they can't twist it into something actionable.

I think the point others and myself were trying to make is that if she was out to get him then it wouldn't matter if he was as mild as milk.
If she accused him of smoking (even if he wasn't) and he wouldn't admit to smoking then he is now being non compliant, which opens the door to all kinds of other things they can throw at him.

This was his comment about the video.

“Who are the officers?”
Officer Aymee Race (badge #6856), she works for the Utah Transit Authority Police Department. Name and badge number are given in the video because it's in the public interest. The officers in the video are public servants acting unlawfully.

“You brought it on yourself! You wouldn’t have been given a ticket if you would have just politely complied!”
I knew that if I stood up for my rights they were going to give me a ticket (or worse), but $50 is a small price to pay for my dignity. “The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose.” –Fredrick Douglas

“You set up the video! You went there to harass the cops!”
No. I didn’t. This is my only youtube video, and frankly I wish it had never happened.

“You should never insult police officers! You’re only going to make them mad and get it worse!”
You’re the problem with America. Bootlicking cowards like you make me sick. You all deserve the government you have.

“You should never give an officer your I.D.! “
Utah is one of the few states with a show me your papers law. I had a busy schedule that day and I couldn't afford to be arrested. But thanks for the amateur legal advice.

“You’re grammar is horrible and discredits your point!”
I’m not very computer savvy so I had a cheap Bangladeshi freelancer edit the video through skype. I didn't even take the time to review his work. I didn't notice it had posted and gone viral until months later.

“Did you sign the ticket?”
Yes, with the words “by coercion” written next to my signature. Like I said, $50 is nothing, and I had very important things to do that day, I couldn’t afford to be arrested.

“Is the UTA private property or public property? Why are police working security?”
Both unfortunately. The UTA is a great example of crony-capitalism. It’s a tax payer subsidized private company.

A note from the owner of this channel:

Since this video first went viral I have received many death threats and I’m sure the officers involved have received death threats. I was once a very outspoken anarcho-capitalist, but as time has passed my political views have matured. All I want now is to tend to my business and live my life. All the anti-police violence is not conducive to freedom. Things are getting bad. And it’s only going to get worse. A lot worse. I want nothing to do with it. When the shit hits the fan I'll be watching the U.S. government and the revolutionaries have at it from my laptop on the beach in Tahiti. I'm not going to support changing an evil system for a slightly less evil one (or a worse one). A real revolution is a philosophical one, once a revolution becomes violent it is already lost. And frankly the human race has let me down. I know now that human beings are just not ready for peace. What are human beings fit for other than being ruled? It is what it is. I’m now a social darwinist, I'll support whoever benefits my business and my family. ..and political instability is not beneficial to either one. Anarcho-Capitalists like to compare livestock to people and say that animals (humans) would be able to live free without the farmer (ruling class). Well, I disagree; some species of animals are so stupid, so domesticated, that they would starve without the farmer. And I think that is the case with 99% of the human species. Human beings need government, and they usually get the government they deserve. Don’t get me wrong, I do have empathy for the people being oppressed, but I now understand the ruling class, I see were they’re coming from. Again, I want nothing to do with politics. I’m not a social activist. All I care about is my business and my family. So please leave me alone.

You remind me of the teacher who blew on his hands and the student asked 'teacher, why do you blow on your hands?' and the teacher said 'to warm them'.

Then, the teacher was seen blowing on his cup of coffee, and the student asked 'why do you blow on your cup?' and the teacher replied 'to cool it'.

The student then left the teacher in disgust because he was clearly doing the same thing for two opposite effects.

The woman cop was a dick. Since he did not move from his stance were there a warm cigarette butt? She could have smelled his hand or breath for evidence o recent smoking.

Hoodie boy should have just complied and most likely he would have just been told to move on.

I have to admit, this kind of thinking is alien to me.

Maybe it's because I don't live in the US, maybe it's because I'm a middle-class, middle-aged, straight, white dude, but I simply don't have this kind of adversarial relationship with cops.

Even in the last few times I was in the US, every interaction I've had with police was courteous and respectful, even when I was in the wrong (like when I was pulled over for speeding).

Same in NZ. I don't have many official interactions with cops, a few random alcohol breath tests, pulled over once for speeding, but again they've always been fine.

Now, I absolutely would take this line if I encountered a situation like the one portrayed here, but as a general rule, I don't think most cops are out to get me, and again, maybe that's just because I'm not their target demographic.

damn newtboy, paranoid much?

Lantern says...

"My buddy Fred pulled over a car with 4 people in it, every one was wanted!

ah the good old days

As far as what he pulled her over for...

you don't have to tell the truth on that one.

I once had a guy wanted on a felony drug offense, I told him I was arresting him for a parking violation.

Once I had the cuffs on him, I told him what it was for.."


It's called evidence, Lantern.
You know, that stuff you're supposed to collect before you accuse someone.

Like evidence of a "Law Enforcement Officer" - YOU - gloating and laughing about how you DON'T HAVE TO TELL THE TRUTH when detaining someone.

You're chuckling & reminiscing about the "good old days" when you got to lie in order to facilitate an arrest!!

OMFG you're a joke.

Your own personal anecdotes illustrate that..

police lie whenever the fuck they feel like they need to.

Why would I, @newtboy, or ANYONE EVER trust a cop?! O_o?!

So OF COURSE you'd never critically-analyze yourself and admit to being a racist prick at times.. @lantern53

You're a disingenuous liar, who lies to yourself everyday..

"Don't worry, self.. We're still a good person"

"Ignore those naysayers, self.. That arrest was mostly lawful so it's okay to lie about it"

"Psh don't be silly, self.. Those black teens MUST have been doing something criminal.. why else would the police be harassing them?"



And the cycle of cognitively-dissonant, racist cuntbags continues..

Can't wait for THIS bullshit explanation of how you're..

"totally-not-a-liar"

..despite the comment where you openly gloat about doing so..


*grabs even more popcorn*

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

I must say, I wish it was alien to me as well. It is a disturbing thing to have to fear any interaction with those charged with my safety, but it's the only reasonable reaction when you have had the types of disrespectful interactions I've consistently had with police, no matter how compliant and respectful I was, invariably they are disrespectful, angry, and dishonest.

I grew up believing that cops were there to help citizens and that telling the truth to them is always the best thing to do. Personal and familial experience has dissuaded me of that belief thoroughly.

I'm also a middle-class, middle-aged, straight, white dude, but because I've lived in poor (largely black) areas I have been repeatedly targeted by police for 'sticking out'.

I've seen numerous close family members believe cop's lies, say too much trying to be helpful and/or truthful, and charged with crimes for what they revealed, or in some cases what the cop SAID they revealed. I've personally had cops lie on the stand about what I've said and/or done in their presence, and had them caught by the judge (lucky me) in the lies. Friends and family were not so lucky, and some of them did serious time for things they either did not do or things they were told would be ignored if they just told the nice friendly cops where the fireworks/pot/beer/anything they need to know about/etc. was, then when they tell the truth, officer friendly morphs into angry drill sergeant who charges them with any possible infraction he can think of and off to jail they go charged with the crimes they were promised would be ignored or crimes the officers created by lying.

When you see this behavior repeated time and time again, directed towards quite different people, one must conclude that it's an issue with those in the profession, not any personal issue by the victims. It's quite sad.

My forefathers fought and many of them gave their lives to secure my (and your, and his) right to not answer questions or to be forced to make statements designed to incriminate myself.
It's incredibly MORE disrespectful and discourteous to ignore their total sacrifice by waiving those hard won rights than it is to not answer questions...especially when you DO calmly and clearly explain why you don't talk to officers.

The officers, on the other hand, are legally REQUIRED to answer your questions about 'are you detaining me', 'do you have reason to believe I'm committing a crime', and 'what crime are you charging me with'. They may not remain silent.

Yes, many 'situations' might be avoided if you capitulate and waive all your rights, but that behavior is 100% un-American, unpatriotic, disrespectful, and degrades the freedom of every citizen every time it's done. Sometimes having a legal right to 'act like a douche' DOES mean you should 'act like a douche' (if, as you seem to think, not participating in the investigation of your possible criminal acts is 'acting like a douche', that is).

Moving this video to lv_hunter's personal queue. It failed to receive enough votes to get sifted up to the front page within 2 days.