Another fine example of outdated binary logic. If Zimmerman is innocent, thus Trayvon is guilty.

Bzzzt. wrong. That's not how logic works, please learn what logical fallacies are.

Waiting for Bobknight33 racist comment in...

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Doesn't seem very cool to call someone out for making racist comments that haven't been made yet. Just sayin'

playing the odds based on past history.

Now, there's a small L.A. riot right now again.

*news *laws *controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy, Law, News) - requested by ant.

People who say "Just sayin" annoy the fuck outa me.

I've heard people say that he wasn't a kid. He's not old enough to drink in the UK, he's not old enough to have sex in america. Does anyone remember being 17? I hadn't a fucking clue about the world. Sadly he'll never get the chance. And it doesn't matter if Zimmerman was found guilty or innocent. What matters is that there's a) there's a law in Florida allowing you to goad/intimidate/force someone into a fight with you and then shoot them with a concealed deadly weapon when they eventually do what you so badly want them to do, and b) there are people racist enough to try and pretend he wasn't a kid because it suits their agenda.

I hope Treyvon Martin's death is not in vain, i hope that it can be used for good in the same way Stephen Lawrence's was - we're still uncovering the scandal from that to this very day.

The Z is free! Congratulations to George Zimmerman, this is twice he's had to defend his life. I hope we never see another show trial driven by race baiting politicians and pundits again. Now he should go sue the heck out of NBC.

What the fuck did I ever do to you?

Stalked a kid and shot him in the chest. Not guilty!

So Zimmerman should NOT have followed Trayvon. Period. That caused the whole mess. Not sure how the legal system works there but that should have translated to manslaughter or assault with a weapon...dunno excatly.

ok that said what KEEPS killing me is the picture of smiling 12 year old Trayvon that the media (even the Turks) keep using. In many countries he's be old enough to be a father and hold a full time job, yes 17 is a young age but it is NOT a kid. (I'm thinking 12 and under as a kid)

Lastly I know some conceal carry courses (if not all) teach that NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT TO AVOID PULLING YOUR GUN OUT.

You avoid confontation at all costs.

Your mother is a whore? ok no problem. Your GF sucks all the dicks in the world, ok. NOT a reason to pull a weapon.

Teaching the value of (human) life is paramount for all parents these days.

Yes. Arrest him so a jury can let him off. Turk stupid here.

So you weren't prepared for the world, so what? Don't assume everyone was young and ill prepared as you. That is what's wrong with America, we are still punks at that age. By that age I was preparing for the military so I could afford an education and make something of my life.

I get what you are saying as it pertains to a culture that has molded our youths, and therefore our youths are not fully responsible for their actions.

As far as the law--I hate it. It's stupid. However, you cannot "force and intimidate" someone to defend themselves. What most likely happened was that Zimmerman made Trayvon into a punk bitch and Trayvon responded illegally. It is not against the law to punk someone, it is to swing on that person. Then Zimmerman, fat little man he is, became scared and when he hit the concrete it was over.

I am only speculating based on reason here. It doesn't excuse Zimmerman and the law should be repealed yesterday.

It is funny, I was walking from the park and a black kid turned to me suddenly, inches from my face, and punked me. I just kept walking, even though I could have broke his nose despite his height. And his friend's face too for that matter. But I was a big boy. I have kids and responsibilities. Why risk it there, and why Trayvon risked it I don't know.

The only way to get honest evaluations from people is to describe it with no mention of the participants' races.

But still include full descriptions of their personalities so we can make accurate predictions about how they're likely to react.

For Toy safety testing (Since kids play with Toys) the cut off age is 12. Any product age graded over the age of 12 is not tested for children.
Just Sayin' - Just messing with you Yogi.

Zimmerman brings all the bits that cause Trayvon's death. He follows him, he forces a confrontation and he brings the weapon. Given that this whole thing seems to be a debate about how far and under what circumstances you are allowed to defend yourself with lethal force, why does nobody consider Trayvon's right to defend himself? Apparently in any confrontation you can gun the other guy down and get away with it because you'll be the one spinning your self defence story in court, and he'll be in a box underground saying sqrt of nothing to anybody. Yes judge, he was black and scary and I feared for my life!

Vodoo , your still on the wrong side of the facts.

There is a nice interactive timeline and video of events.
http://www.hlntv.com/interactive/2013/06/17/zimmerman-trayvon-map-interactive
Also there are all the 911 calls
Zimmerman's on site police walk through of events of the evening before.
Its not by FOX so it is not biased


The Left made this a race issue not Zimmerman.

Fact is there is not enough evidence to convict. The system worked and the left can't stand it. The left has instigated violence from blacks on white people. The Left should be ashamed. They have done more harm to race relations over this issue.

Yep If I wanted to kill a black man I would be going to the store and spot my target, drive past them and call the cops, then let Martin walk past my car and walk away around the corner out of sight. Then I would follow around the corner and all the while on phone with police. Martin came back from in between bldgs. and walked around the car still on phone with police then back in between bldgs. Still on with with police I got out to locate a proper address for police. And got ambushed by Martin. Yep that's is the normal pattern of a Raciest Killer.


44 days and 6 police interviews with no attorneys. Zimmerman freely assisted the police. If the police had evidence they would have arrested him. Al and Jessie show Up and scream RACE forcing his arrest.

Why did Martin come back and circle Zimmerman's truck? That is not the action of a scared person that is being followed.

What about the 4 minutes that was mention during closing arguments? What was Martin doing? He was 100 yards from home. and he chose to do what? He chose to pick a fight and lost. Martin got shot because of self defense.

Instead of watching media watch the facts.
The kid died because of self defense.

No. Sorry that doesn't wash. In order for it to be self defense, there must be a reasonable threat.

Zimmerman was older, larger, stronger and armed. In what way was he possibly ever under threat? Plus and this is undisputed, he followed the fucking kid. Show me a real victim that has ever pursued their would-be assailant.

Martin was more athletic, taller, and a frequent street fighter. As a result he broke his victim's nose and was heading toward causing brain damage, but he himself hadn't taken a single injury.

That's not a saintly "child" (someone who's 12 years old or younger).

Martin would have been arrested and charged with assault if he had lived.


Show us the law that Zimmerman broke by following an unknown guest in his community.

I'm glad we can all get so wrapped up in this one case of violence and continue to ignore the day after day violence, intimidation, and gang warfare that happens every day, all day, throughout America.

It is summer now. That means the local ER is full of people who have been beaten, stabbed, or shot. Some are gang members. Others live on one gang's block, so when they cross another gang's block they will be beaten or shot simply by association. This continues during the school year when kids who walk to their underfunded schools are scared to cross rival gang's turf even though they are not in a gang.

I know only by proxy via my fiance, who is a resident at the county hospital, just how prevalent this kind of violence is.

Then you hear on NPR that kids as early as nine years old are "saving" to buy their first revolver for as little as $25 dollars on the street.

Still, lets ignore all that and focus on one case in Florida with facts that remain unclear...

TYT is a complete waste of time. Even when they are more or less right in principle their reasoning, eloquence, and tone leave much to be desired.

Turk keeps asking what he is supposed to tell his God-Son or any other person of color if they're being followed or attacked? It's very simple really, the same thing I've been taught since I was a kid and the same thing I do now and the same thing I'll tell everyone else to do...

Run and Call for help. Run screaming "fire" and do everything you can do to escape until they force you to stand your ground. If you're forced to stand your ground, do anything possible to save your life and the lives of innocent people around you until you CAN escape to safety.

If he was only a couple of blocks from home, if he really did circle back twice, if he knocked zimmerman to the ground and was not shot in the back.....then regardless of whether he was defending himself or not, he did not run when he had the chances to. He doesn't deserve to die for that mistake, it's a tragedy he did and no one should have to worry about getting shot EVEN if they get into a fist fight.

However you can not tell me he did everything in his power to reach safety before pursuing a fight to the ground or even after his opponent went to the ground. Of course neither did Zimmerman and that is why he went on trial for felony charges. If neither person did everything they could to avoid this situation then neither of them is devoid of at least some blame in the confrontation itself.

ps I'm not white.

That would be the one where he shot an unarmed man.

It's legal to shoot someone who's in the middle of trying to kill you.

That applies even when that person is only armed with lethal fists and lethal concrete.

The jury and 1/2 the country say otherwise.

More people are killed every year by hands and feet than by any other means. (at the hands (and feet) of others, not sure about cars though)

Looking at U.S. 2010 mortality data, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf

accidents 120,859 (35,332 were motor vehicle accidents)
firearms 31,672 (11,078 were assault by firearms)
alcohol 25,692
assault not including firearms 5181

I would expect knives to feature higher than hands and feet, where did you get your figures?

You got me. Didn't look at all the data.

Firearms and knives beat out hands and feet.

This is just a cursory look I will delve deeper and see what appears.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

lol, @bobknight33 didn't watch the video at all. That whole bit about...not being there went right over your head didn't it.

Poor, predictably dumb bob. Err, I mean poor, predictably dumb, RACIEST bob!

PS You'd think bob would know how to spell racist, he's called out on it enough times.

found this too:

In the last decade (since 2000) the homicide rate declined to levels last seen in the mid-1960s.
Based on data from 1980 and 2008, males represented 77% of homicide victims and nearly 90% of offenders. The victimization rate for males (11.6 per 100,000) was 3 times higher than the rate for females (3.4 per 100,000). The offending rate for males (15.1 per 100,000) was almost 9 times higher than the rate for females (1.7 per 100,000).
The average age of both offenders and victims increased slightly in recent years, yet remained lower than they were prior to the late 1980s.

Not neccesarally relevent but it's interesting that the overall crime rate is down. (In Canada too) But the US has sold more that 12 million guns since Newtown.

soooooo not sure what it all means.... First sentence is a key one though



and this:

The FBI has released their 2007-2011 “Murder Victims by Weapon” report. The results are contradictory to anti-gun industry claims that relaxing the ban on assault weapons will cause more crime.

The report indicates you are more likely to be killed by hands or feet than by a rifle or shotgun.

Since 2007 there has been a 16.2% decline in murders committed with personal weapons which are defined as “hands, fists, feet etc.” The number of murders of this type in 2011 totaled 728.


While gun ownership has dramatically increased since 2007, murders for both the shotgun and rifle categories have seen declines faster than the rate of personal weapons related crime.

The rates of decline for the shotgun and rifle categories are 22.1% and 28.7% respectively. In 2011 there were 356 shotgun murders and 323 rifle murders for a total of 679 murders.

Total murders by hands and feet in 2011 exceed the total number of murders by shotgun and rifle. Does that mean gloves and shoes need regulation because they are concealing deadly weapons? No, but it does mean that there is no need for any further regulation of long arms.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/27/fbi-crime-stats-you-are-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-hands-and-feet-than-by-a-shotgun-or-rifle/#ixzz2ZGab74Pq

NOT saying this last is a great source but hey it's there.

SO it seems that there are more killings with hands and feet than with all shotguns and (dreaded ar 15) rifles total.

A bunch of other idiots agreeing with you does not make one less of an idiot.

That's a more reasonable statement. It was fairly close though, and not true for every year.

The corresponding figures for Australia make an interesting comparison:

All deaths:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3303.0Chapter42011

Homicides (doesn't have the detail of the U.S. equivalent):
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

I did look at the Canadian statistics too, but they were all expressed in terms of incidents per 100,000 people so it was a bit hard to compare... the nearest I found was this rather old report directly comparing Canada to its Southern neighbour:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/011218/dq011218b-eng.htm

My spelling is not always correct. I know I am bad at that. However, I look at the facts and make unbiased conclusion.
You look at the same facts and lay you biased opinion on top of them and come to the wrong conclusion just as the video does.

this guy is always mad.

Odd that I can remember when sift was moderatly decent, and didn't go off into the deep end of failing to understand the law. It's also useful to note after watching the video, that the entire opinion piece is missing some key facts. Such as, Martin was known to police. The only reason why he didn't have a felony rap sheet was because the "juvenile justice" program kept him out of the courts. Fun to note that if you pay attention between what this guy is saying, and look at the physical evidence about 30-40% of what has been said is either a distortion, or a lie.

It's also fun to know that you don't always do a toxicology report on the person who shoots, especially on grounds of self-defense. It's even more fun, to note that he wasn't arrested because the police found no probable cause to do so. It wasn't until the DOJ got involved, along with POTUS to make it into a racial issue--that it happened.

Now it's even greater that Angela Corey failed to meet the grounds for an affidavit for probable cause. Instead directly mislead, and lied in the one that was submitted. The entire case was a sham trial, and if you'd rather believe what some flappy headed person NBC, or CNN, or YT is telling you, then feel free to wallow in your own ignorance.

I find it terribly funny how everybody gets upset at this. Did you really expect your justice system to be fair? America is the world leader in jailing its own population and yet even the most obvious criminal behaviour (yes, I'm looking at you, Wall Street) isn't even investigated.
It doesn't matter who's at fault here. It's doesn't matter if hoodies are lethal weapons or listening to the police is a bad idea. The fact is that laws that allow these killings to happen in the first place are wrong, that's what matters. Like in many other cases we discuss the people involved in a problem, not the problem itself. I don't give a shit about George Zimmerman, he has blood on his hands one way or another. I don't care where Ed Snowden is hanging out right now either. I care about laws that give others easy excuses to murder me, I care about the invasion of my privacy. I care about the issues not the people bringing them to our attention.
If I gave a shit about Zimmerman, I'd tail him until he notices and confronts me and then I'd blow his brains out. "I was scared, I thought he was armed and would shoot me, so I shot first. Stand your ground."
But he's just a diversion.

It was quite clear that Zimmerman had the burden to prove his actions were reasonable and acceptable, and there is no doubt he owes a debt for the life that was lost. He hasnt gotten away with anything, really... a prison term would be easier punishment than being in the public now.

I thought this preacher had an interesting perspective
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a70_1374030948

Um, Zimmerman might have followed, and he might have brought the weapon. But all of this is a non-issue so far. Not against the law in most states so far.

Did he punk Travon? Yes. Is that against the law, hell no... Was he being a wanna-be cop? Yes... Again, against the law? No... is it against the law to ignore dispatch? Not here...

But the thing I most strongly disagree with you on Jinx is that "he forced the confrontation." Last I checked rape was force. This was not force. Trayvon just acted like a dumbass kid with what he knew. Not forced at all based on the information. If he was a bit more grown up, or Zimmerman was...