Outreach to the unsaved community by hosting popular secular events.
The arrogance of their supposed good works in the hopes of brain washing more to their side.
I don't know whether to laugh or throw up.

Oh, and Pat Robertson can lick sloth taints.

Just die, old man.

yes you believe in ghosts. Just 1 though. And everything else you believe is at least as silly as anything Halloween drags up. Oh and as long as your tossing out pagan holidays toss out Yule will ya? The rest of us are tired of hearing about the so called war on christmas.

It's ok Mr. Robertson...just Keep Calm and Call Buffy.

"...like the dead rising..."

Dear Pat,

AHEM.

Love,

Lazarus



I just can't hate on Pat. He has ears like Yoda.

Halloween has both Christian and pagan origins. Christian, because November 1st was All Saints Day, and October 31st was All Saints Eve. Pagan, because November 1st is called Samhain, which is the celtic new year. Samhain is the celtic god of death. On the eve of Samhain, pagans would make sacrifices to their gods and the spirits of the dead were said to roam free. Today, the pagan and occult community embraces Samhain as their new year. It is regarded as the day when witches are at the height of their power, and they cast many spells and worship spirits(demons) on this day. Whatever it once was, today, behind the facade of candy and costumes, it is a night when evil is celebrated and worship is paid to the adversary. It is certainly not anything Christians should participate in, nor anyone else with a single ounce of discernment.

There is no "Celtic God of the Dead"...
It's not a celebration of evil at all, and no worship is paid to any "adversary"...

It is a time for passed loved ones to be remembered and honored.
It is a celebration of death, yes, but not in the morbid fashion. The spirits (your loved ones' ghosts) are said to roam more readily during this period, which is why Gaels and Pagans set out a candle (sometimes within a carved turnip) to represent a guiding lantern home.

Also, spirits != demons.

Also, animal sacrifices which are then cooked and eaten? I don't see a problem. Sounds a lot like Thanksgiving.

--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm
http://www.chalicecentre.net/samhain.htm
http://wicca.com/celtic/akasha/samhainlore.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=holidays&sc=samhain&id=1984
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/holydays/samhain.shtml

>> ^shinyblurry:

Halloween has both Christian and pagan origins. Christian, because November 1st was All Saints Day, and October 31st was All Saints Eve. Pagan, because November 1st is called Samhain, which is the celtic new year. Samhain is the celtic god of death. On the eve of Samhain, pagans would make sacrifices to their gods and the spirits of the dead were said to roam free. Today, the pagan and occult community embraces Samhain as their new year. It is regarded as the day when witches are at the height of their power, and they cast many spells and worship spirits(demons) on this day. Whatever it once was, today, behind the facade of candy and costumes, it is a night when evil is celebrated and worship is paid to the adversary.It is certainly not anything Christians should participate in, nor anyone else with a single ounce of discernment.

You're right, the association of Samhain with the Celtic God of the dead is dubious, I retract my comment there. However, you are still way off. The celtics were pagans, and they did more than just light candles. They would build huge bonfires and conduct vegetable, animal and human sacrifices to their gods. Read your own sources. This is macabre to say the least. Whatever the original purpose of the festival, which was terrible enough, it has been further corrupted by the occult over the centuries and more recently the neo-pagan movement. Ritual sacrifice as worship to spirits and spell casting is most certainly done on this day. This is a power day for the pagans. Some call it the devils birthday. Satan is indeed paid tribute, as any worship of spirits goes to demons. Before you try to correct me, let me just tell you that I have a lot of experience with the occult movement and I know exactly what they think about halloween, and how they celebrate it. They look forward to it all year. You think you're just looking at some harmless and quaint tradition, but has an evil origin, and there is much evil done on it; it is nothing any Christian should get near.

>> ^pho3n1x:
There is no "Celtic God of the Dead"...
It's not a celebration of evil at all, and no worship is paid to any "adversary"...
It is a time for passed loved ones to be remembered and honored.
It is a celebration of death, yes, but not in the morbid fashion. The spirits (your loved ones' ghosts) are said to roam more readily during this period, which is why Gaels and Pagans set out a candle (sometimes within a carved turnip) to represent a guiding lantern home.
Also, spirits != demons.
--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm
http://www.chalicecentre.net/samhain.htm
http://wicca.com/celtic/akasha/samhainlore.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=holidays&sc=samhain&id=1984
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/holydays/samhain.shtml
>> ^shinyblurry:
Halloween has both Christian and pagan origins. Christian, because November 1st was All Saints Day, and October 31st was All Saints Eve. Pagan, because November 1st is called Samhain, which is the celtic new year. Samhain is the celtic god of death. On the eve of Samhain, pagans would make sacrifices to their gods and the spirits of the dead were said to roam free. Today, the pagan and occult community embraces Samhain as their new year. It is regarded as the day when witches are at the height of their power, and they cast many spells and worship spirits(demons) on this day. Whatever it once was, today, behind the facade of candy and costumes, it is a night when evil is celebrated and worship is paid to the adversary.It is certainly not anything Christians should participate in, nor anyone else with a single ounce of discernment.

I think you're misconstruing the use of the word "sacrifice" to summon imagery of blood sacrifice (ie Indiana Jones).
Not all sacrifice is macabre or evil. Catholic Mass is a sacrifice.
I've not read a single source regarding Samhain/Halloween/All Saints Eve, even one from "your side" of the argument, that alludes to human sacrifice.

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Blood/sacrificemainpage.htm

Besides, "pagan" is a blanket term. The ones you are trying to illustrate are Druids. They would make animal sacrifices, which were then immediately consumed as part of the festival.
Satan does not exist in the religion which you are misunderstanding. Satan is a Christian idea.
And I still assert that spirits are not all demons. Is the Holy Spirit a demon?

Before you try to correct me, I also have a lot of personal experience in these matters, and I know that there are some misguided individuals. By and large though, "pagan" religions (as paganism is not in-and-of-itself a religion) do not share these views and simply see the matter for what it is. Animals and crops are harvested for the coming winter, and tribute is paid to "the death of a god", not to "a god of death".

He actually believes that people celebrate Halloween because they believe in "haunted" and "ghosts". You know, it's the Christian churches' favorite past-time to hijack non-Christian celebrations, festivals, and holidays, and turn it into their own. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up celebrating October 31st as the day Jesus got his first pube or gave his first "money shot" in the distant future.

Egads, Mr. Robertson, from one Christian to another, knock it off already.... >_<

If we're to disregard Halloween as "evil" because of it's paganistic roots, then we'd have to throw out so much more. As many sifters have pointed out in the past, so many holidays that are held dear nowadays have their origin in paganism, such as Yule for Christmas, the feast of Ishtar for Easter, etc. THEN we should start disregarding the names of the days of the week, THEN we should go for months of the year!

The Bible even advocates partaking of "pagan holidays" to an extent. In 1Corinthians 8, it talks about how one can partake in other religions' celebrations, even to the extent of if the meat has been "sacrificed to idols." The only reason it says to NOT partake of said celebration is if you doing so causes a fellow believer to stumble.

...and seriously, Mr. Robertson. Knock it off. You're embarrassing the rest of us.

Druids worshipped baal, engaged in human sacrifice:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_text_bulfinch_chxlia.htm\

This was not a wholesome little get together, and it did involve blood sacrifice. The root of bonfire is "bonefire" http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_origin_of_the_word_bonfire

No, not all spirits are demons; God is a spirit, and angels are spirits. Yet, many people have this idea of a dichotomy between "good" spirits and evil spirits, but in reality they're almost all evil spirits. Any spirit not sent by God is a demon. Spirits impersonating the dead are demons, spirits which claim to be other gods are demons, the spirits people channel are demons, etc. The astral realm is owned by Satan and populated by demons pretending to be every kind of fantasy someone could imagine, and many people wouldn't. There is no Goddess, there are no ghosts, there aren't any of these psychic manifestations. It all stems from Satan. Satan is a being, not a concept, as real as you and me, and he is the deceiver of this entire world.

I agree, Catholic mass is sacrifice, because it is pagan ritual the church took on as its own. It has nothing to do with God, but it does represent the union of the sun and moon, as per babylonian mystery religions.

By and large, people who practice sorcery, divination, channeling, "psychic" abilities, and the like are all doing Satans will. They all come out in droves to celebrate this evil day, to worship other gods and practice their witchcraft; basically to do all the things which God commanded us not to do. The only involvement Christians should have on this is to pray for those who are deceived.
>> ^pho3n1x:
I think you're misconstruing the use of the word "sacrifice" to summon imagery of blood sacrifice (ie Indiana Jones).
Not all sacrifice is macabre or evil. Catholic Mass is a sacrifice.
I've not read a single source regarding Samhain/Halloween/All Saints Eve, even one from "your side" of the argument, that alludes to human sacrifice.
http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Blood/sacrificemainpage.htm
Besides, "pagan" is a blanket term. The ones you are trying to illustrate are Druids. They would make animal sacrifices, which were then immediately consumed as part of the festival.
Satan does not exist in the religion which you are misunderstanding. Satan is a Christian idea.
And I still assert that spirits are not all demons. Is the Holy Spirit a demon?
Before you try to correct me, I also have a lot of personal experience in these matters, and I know that there are some misguided individuals. By and large though, "pagan" religions (as paganism is not in-and-of-itself a religion) do not share these views and simply see the matter for what it is. Animals and crops are harvested for the coming winter, and tribute is paid to "the death of a god", not to "a god of death".

What the fuck is all this edumacated bullshit going on in here!? I referenced Buffy...just call this guy a moron a leave...NOW!!!

i was going to respond to shiny's post but pho3nix cleared it up nicely.
let me just add that pagan translates to mean "the old ways" and occult to mean "hidden".
what is interesting is just how much pagan ritual and symbology has made it into chrsitian mass and even in the churches themselves.
while not surprising considering the history involved,i do find it ironic the fear and misinformation coming from people surrounded by pagan symbols and practicing the old rituals (co-opted as they are).

i dont know what kind of pagans you hung out with shiny,
sounds like they have issues.

Pat Robertson can suck my scrotum. I painted a jack o'lantern on it especially.

Show me where, in your first link, it mentions human sacrifice...
Instead, don't. I'll quote it for you:
That the Druids offered sacrifices to their deity there can be no doubt. But there is some uncertainty as to what they offered, and of the ceremonies connected with their religious services we know almost nothing.

Also, quoting the other article you mentioned regarding bonfires:
It comes from the contraction of bone fire, where the Celts used to burn animal bones to ward off evil spirits.

Try harder.

--

Catholic Mass, to my knowledge, is not based on pagan sacrifice at all, but rather using bread and wine as a "bloodless" sacrifice honoring the crucifixion of Christ. Granted, I only skimmed the articles because I'm not really that interested in the whole ordeal, but it seems to me like you don't like to read anything other than the pamphlets your church of choice provides about each secular holiday anyway, so I'm probably just wasting my time.
You can believe what you want to believe, let me believe what I want to believe.

--

Religion is like a penis.

It's awesome that you have one.
It's awesome that you're proud of it.
But please stop whipping it out and waving it around in public.
It's not any better or more important than mine.



>> ^shinyblurry:

Druids worshipped baal, engaged in human sacrifice:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_text_bulfinch_chxlia.htm\

This was not a wholesome little get together, and it did involve blood sacrifice. The root of bonfire is "bonefire" http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_origin_of_the_word_bonfire
No, not all spirits are demons; God is a spirit, and angels are spirits. Yet, many people have this idea of a dichotomy between "good" spirits and evil spirits, but in reality they're almost all evil spirits. Any spirit not sent by God is a demon. Spirits impersonating the dead are demons, spirits which claim to be other gods are demons, the spirits people channel are demons, etc. The astral realm is owned by Satan and populated by demons pretending to be every kind of fantasy someone could imagine, and many people wouldn't. There is no Goddess, there are no ghosts, there aren't any of these psychic manifestations. It all stems from Satan. Satan is a being, not a concept, as real as you and me, and he is the deceiver of this entire world.
I agree, Catholic mass is sacrifice, because it is pagan ritual the church took on as its own. It has nothing to do with God, but it does represent the union of the sun and moon, as per babylonian mystery religions.
By and large, people who practice sorcery, divination, channeling, "psychic" abilities, and the like are all doing Satans will. They all come out in droves to celebrate this evil day, to worship other gods and practice their witchcraft; basically to do all the things which God commanded us not to do. The only involvement Christians should have on this is to pray for those who are deceived.
>> ^pho3n1x:
I think you're misconstruing the use of the word "sacrifice" to summon imagery of blood sacrifice (ie Indiana Jones).
Not all sacrifice is macabre or evil. Catholic Mass is a sacrifice.
I've not read a single source regarding Samhain/Halloween/All Saints Eve, even one from "your side" of the argument, that alludes to human sacrifice.
http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Blood/s
acrificemainpage.htm
Besides, "pagan" is a blanket term. The ones you are trying to illustrate are Druids. They would make animal sacrifices, which were then immediately consumed as part of the festival.
Satan does not exist in the religion which you are misunderstanding. Satan is a Christian idea.
And I still assert that spirits are not all demons. Is the Holy Spirit a demon?
Before you try to correct me, I also have a lot of personal experience in these matters, and I know that there are some misguided individuals. By and large though, "pagan" religions (as paganism is not in-and-of-itself a religion) do not share these views and simply see the matter for what it is. Animals and crops are harvested for the coming winter, and tribute is paid to "the death of a god", not to "a god of death".

Nice selective quoting.

"The classical (Roman) writers affirm that they offered on great occasions human sacrifices; as for success in war or for relief from dangerous diseases. Cæsar has given a detailed account of the manner in which this was done. "They have images of immense size, the limbs of which are framed with twisted twigs and filled with living persons. These being set on fire, those within are encompassed by the flames." Many attempts have been made by Celtic writers to shake the testimony of the Roman historians to this fact, but without success."

We have no reason to doubt the testimony of their contemporaries. And if you want more evidence, how about national geographic:

Druids Committed Human Sacrifice, Cannibalism?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/03/090320-druids-sacrifice-cannibalism.html

It's actually far worse than I thought. Far from a quaint little holiday where people mourned the dead, it was sick pagan bloodbath.

What's clear is that you're more interested in a convenient truth;; you said it yourself, you skim over the evidence in apathy, and just want to believe what you want. Doesn't change the facts though; Halloween celebrates an evil day where a bunch of savages worshipped demons, sacrificed human beings and apparently ate their flesh. I'm sorry, but there is nothing there for Christians to celebrate. Pat Robertson is 100 percent correct.

>> ^pho3n1x:
Show me where, in your first link, it mentions human sacrifice...
Instead, don't. I'll quote it for you:
That the Druids offered sacrifices to their deity there can be no doubt. But there is some uncertainty as to what they offered, and of the ceremonies connected with their religious services we know almost nothing.
Also, quoting the other article you mentioned regarding bonfires:
It comes from the contraction of bone fire, where the Celts used to burn animal bones to ward off evil spirits.
Try harder.
--
Catholic Mass, to my knowledge, is not based on pagan sacrifice at all, but rather using bread and wine as a "bloodless" sacrifice honoring the crucifixion of Christ. Granted, I only skimmed the articles because I'm not really that interested in the whole ordeal, but it seems to me like you don't like to read anything other than the pamphlets your church of choice provides about each secular holiday anyway, so I'm probably just wasting my time.
You can believe what you want to believe, let me believe what I want to believe.
--
Religion is like a penis.
It's awesome that you have one.
It's awesome that you're proud of it.
But please stop whipping it out and waving it around in public.
It's not any better or more important than mine.
>> ^shinyblurry:
Druids worshipped baal, engaged in human sacrifice:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_text_bulfinch_chxlia.htm\

This was not a wholesome little get together, and it did involve blood sacrifice. The root of bonfire is "bonefire" http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_origin_of_the_word_bonfire
No, not all spirits are demons; God is a spirit, and angels are spirits. Yet, many people have this idea of a dichotomy between "good" spirits and evil spirits, but in reality they're almost all evil spirits. Any spirit not sent by God is a demon. Spirits impersonating the dead are demons, spirits which claim to be other gods are demons, the spirits people channel are demons, etc. The astral realm is owned by Satan and populated by demons pretending to be every kind of fantasy someone could imagine, and many people wouldn't. There is no Goddess, there are no ghosts, there aren't any of these psychic manifestations. It all stems from Satan. Satan is a being, not a concept, as real as you and me, and he is the deceiver of this entire world.
I agree, Catholic mass is sacrifice, because it is pagan ritual the church took on as its own. It has nothing to do with God, but it does represent the union of the sun and moon, as per babylonian mystery religions.
By and large, people who practice sorcery, divination, channeling, "psychic" abilities, and the like are all doing Satans will. They all come out in droves to celebrate this evil day, to worship other gods and practice their witchcraft; basically to do all the things which God commanded us not to do. The only involvement Christians should have on this is to pray for those who are deceived.
>> ^pho3n1x:
I think you're misconstruing the use of the word "sacrifice" to summon imagery of blood sacrifice (ie Indiana Jones).
Not all sacrifice is macabre or evil. Catholic Mass is a sacrifice.
I've not read a single source regarding Samhain/Halloween/All Saints Eve, even one from "your side" of the argument, that alludes to human sacrifice.
http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Blood/s
acrificemainpage.htm
Besides, "pagan" is a blanket term. The ones you are trying to illustrate are Druids. They would make animal sacrifices, which were then immediately consumed as part of the festival.
Satan does not exist in the religion which you are misunderstanding. Satan is a Christian idea.
And I still assert that spirits are not all demons. Is the Holy Spirit a demon?
Before you try to correct me, I also have a lot of personal experience in these matters, and I know that there are some misguided individuals. By and large though, "pagan" religions (as paganism is not in-and-of-itself a religion) do not share these views and simply see the matter for what it is. Animals and crops are harvested for the coming winter, and tribute is paid to "the death of a god", not to "a god of death".

I only skimmed over the article specifically dealing with Catholic Mass. I don't skim over everything. I actually read most of it, think about it, and then form an opinion.

--

Halloween/Samhain is hardly a "success in war" or a "relief from dangerous diseases."

Sure, human sacrifice is gruesome, but it had nothing whatsoever to do with Halloween.


Seriously though, I'm done now. Attacking a modern day secular celebration over what people did 3000 years ago is stupid.

it's a day of fun and candy for kids god dammit!