The fireworks start with Moore speaking at -10:50 - after Gupta's nitpicking ends. Factchecking on the Sicko blog.

Definitely entertaining ... would have been better if Wolf prepped more. Moore definitely did.

Haha, Nice, Moore 1 - CNN - nothing. I love how he outright attacks Wolf on the failure to do his job. Well deserved.

Here is the debunking of the debunking Moore promised to put on his site:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10017

Pretty good show by moore,I have never been a moore lover or hater but he did appear to do his homework while cnn didn't. Also you have to give the guy the bronze balls award for calling out cnn for being in the pocket of health care on this one.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Yay for Moore. Blitzer is a pompous windbag.

Damn! Mike goin' to TOWN. Tore Wolf and CNN an effin' new one.

moore: "The facts support what I believe." Especially when the facts emanate from what you believe...

How ironic that an "documentary" on the poor healthcare in the US is done by a fat pig who is gonna explode someday. It's unhealthy pigs like moore that are helping to drive up health costs.

Facts are facts are truth. They don't emanate from what a*nybody* believes but they will either refute or support what someone believes.

i absolutely loved that. that was great, one of the best posts yet... and i watch a lot of this crap... lou dobbs' comment at the end kinda pissed me off too

Irishman: I'm not saying I agree with Rotty, but I will say that when you're dealing with statistics it's often impossible to present truths without a massive amount of context.

Truly one of the best media clips I have seen in awhile. After seeing all the fox News shit that turns up on the web everyday, nice to see an activist getting air time and fighting back.

He won't be taped???

Because it will be taken out of conext???

ROFL!!

"done by a fat pig who is gonna explode someday." Wtf is this ? Youtube ? And if you had seen the documentary you would notice that he points out this irony and does other crap related to it to emphasize almost silly and obvious remarks. Hu-hu, he's fat, don't listen to him, cause it's all his fault anyway. God forbid someone afflicted by health problems who reflects about 60% of american adults talk about it. And just for notice, in case you get a stick and start poking at my fat, no I am not fat. That being said, what you say is true, but fuck man, you are missing the point.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

He's going to be on Larry King debating the medical journalist who says he fudged the figures tonight. Not to be missed. BTW, the doctor-jouranlist just apologized on Blitzer's show, admitting he had the figures wrong.

antimatter,

No, I have not seen this "documentary" yet, but will. I base my comments on his previous, compromised work. It's not *all* his fault, I said "helping". "Health problem"...ahhh...ok. No, I'm not missing the point. I actually agree there are major problems with heath care in the US. However, for him to rant and whine like he did in this interview is damn stupid because: 1) he won't win anyone over who is not a fanboi of his and; 2) he goes ballistic because someone questions him and what he has done...gee isn't that what he does for a living?

He apologized?? Is that on the intertubes somewhere?? I wanna watch!!

Oh man, I would love to see the guy apologize.

If you go to http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article_10017.php they really tear apart that CNN video piece by piece, and give clear citations for everything. At first, like Rotty, I thought he over reacted. But now I don't really blame him, it seems they attacked the movie with false statistics, misrepresentations and slander. He takes it so personally because it's his work, and unlike CNN he has some pride in making sure it's carefully researched and accurate.

Hats off to Michael Moore for being so candid and direct. You have to give him credit for what he is doing now!!!

Part 2 of this interview which was aired the next day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F91hq6Js9Rs&eurl=

Yea actually, Rotty, sorry, I comment on other people's comments too impulsively and usually regret it. I forget who to go after I guess
1) Objective journalism never existed and never will. All is propaganda.
2) He goes "ballistic" not because "someone questions him and what he has done" but because Wolf and CNN are playing Nazi and shitting on him almost every questions.
3) Why do they have to fucking split screen him w/ pictures of what he's talking about ? And it's not really related. He talks about Hillary so they split the picture w/ some footage of her talking and actually give her some Volume (during a live interview! who the fuck you are interviewing, him or her ?) As if to make the connection to anyone who just Flipped cnn ON that somehow Hillary and Him are related, and they are in many ways, but not in that "no one likes hillary so no one will like him when they see both pictures at the same time".
4) FUCKING NAZIS, BURN THEIR FEET.
5) I hope to god Wolf goes home and realizes some heavy shit. Look in the mirror for a Long time.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Here's Gupta admitting his mistake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIIRa464z_w
I'm pretty sure I heard a sorry in another bit.

That is just too rich. Michael Moore - a propaganda movie maker - is complaining about being taken out of context. Surely thou wilt say unto me this proverb, physician heal thyself...

And CNN in 'the pocket' of the health care industry? Shut up, Moore. Don't you realize CNN is a 'mainstream' media organization? They're your closest allies! And after his ranting was done, someone obviously took Wolf and Gupta back into the cloak room to give them their dressing down and get them back on the socialist reservation. Who's in who's pocket now?

What Moore isn't saying, the lie he wants you to buy into - is the notion that if the government takes over health care, then everyone will get medical coverage 'for free' because 'the government will pay for it' - like they do in socialist utopias like Cuba. (Movie makers have gone to Cuba to profile the lives of the average people there - the people Moore didn't want you to see because they're miserable. Ah yes - thousands of refugees are fleeing from Cuba to the US on anything they can keep afloat because they're just so durn HAPPY with the 'free' medical care they get in Cuba that they can't stand it anymore)

The lie is - there is no such thing as a free lunch. Somewhere - somehow - someone has to pay. Even conservative estimates say that for the government to pay for this so-called 'free' health coverage that Moore dreams of, your ever-ready goverment is poised to take at least 50% out of each and every one of your paychecks - and that's GROSS, not NET. And your ability, or inability to pay all your other bills with the pittance that's left over will be of no concern to them.

And what of the healthy people? The ones who don't go to the doctor all that much? How is it fair for them to get half their paycheck sucked away for medical coverage they'll never use?

Never forget people - the government never pays for anything. Where does the government get it's money? They don't have two pennies to rub together until they tax it out of YOUR pocket. So when Moore and his cohorts say 'the government should pay for it', always remember - YOU are the one who's gonna take it in the shorts.

But why should Moore worry? He's already got his pile. He's asking for an INCOME tax from the goverment to pay for all this. But change that to a WEALTH tax, and Moore will start shrieking in fury against it. Because then HIS millions would be targeted by the government instead of your paychecks. And he would sooner part with YOUR blood than HIS money.

he's right on about the mainstream media - since 9/11 they've done little but lick Bush's jackboots.

You kidding? CNN, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, PBS, et. al have done little but slam Bush since he was elected - before and after 9/11. They've given screen time to Cindy Sheehan, the Jersey Girls, Michael Moore, anyone they can find who will say the words that their 'reporters' are too gutless to say - 'Bush is Hitler', 'worst economy since the great depression', 'Bush lied, people died', 'no evidence of nukes', 'Karl Rove should be imprisoned w/out trial', 'our soliers are like nazis in their death camps', the list goes on and on. Lapdogs to Bush? I guess that's why Olbermann is demanding their impeachment, and why Dan Rather pushed forged documents to try and destroy Bush during the 04 elections, and how come every time liberals lose, they cry 'voter fraud', but every time they win it's 'the voice of the people'.

What it must be like - to be so blinded by hatred to the exclusion of logic and reason. We all saw what happened when Moore ran into an opposing point of view - he started gnashing his teeth and stamping his feet in rage. Because he THOUGHT these reporters were supposed to be on 'his' side and say nothing against him.

Fact is, this movie Moore made is so wrong in so many instances, that even the 'news' network that wrote glowing reviews for it couldn't believe all his distortions and inaccuracies. I guess Moore is still miffed that his movie is getting the tar beat out of it at the box office. 11th place and going down, down, down....
I'm sure he agrees with free speech - but only the free speech that agrees with his point of view. CNN has just seen an example of how 'free' Moore would like speech to be by trying to stomp on them. Facts and stats that refute Moore need not apply in his brave new world...

Here is the Gupta / Moore debate
http://www.videosift.com/video/Moore-Debates-Gupta-July-10th07

Blitzer is such a schmutcka

fuck yeah. I'm glad they let his RANT about the war get on air. again...blitzer is a tool.

Yo Rotty, I'm completely 100% not fat. So you know, all those other people aside, you know you can trust me.

And I'm telling you: Moore is closer to God than skinny people.

Skinny Mike, out.

@Slyrr

While your argument makes some sense from a very greedy perspective (and yes, I know that one of humanity's biggest flaws is greed), I just can’t find myself convinced of it just yet. Have you ever suspected that maybe he actually, i don't know, stood behind his beliefs for reasons other than profit?
Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not one to trust anyone, and I expect the worst from people, but something about the whole "Moore is nothing but a money-grubbing asshole that's trying to manipulate society so he gets a fatter paycheck" that I've heard from so many people just doesn't make much sense to me. I guess because his history shows that he's genuinely cared for activism for pretty much his whole life. From being personally effected in the whole Flint, Michigan fiasco up til now. He throughout school did all kinds of positive activism, did some pretty crazy things (without anyone even knowing who he was). And now, having seen SiCKO (through videosift =p), the documentary itself is very genuine.
Will I hold what you said past him, registering it impossible to be true? Of course not, people never cease to surprise me. But I just haven't been convinced of it yet. All I've seen is just a bunch of insults without citation thrown at him because he does what he does, and not everyone agrees with it.


But about all of your other points, I can pretty much easily disagree with about all of them. First of all, it was 9th place at the Box Office. I'm not sure that's 'getting the tar beat out of it', considering it's a documentary. No, I'd think that should be under the "very successful" category. I'm not sure what documentary's you've seen recently that have beaten that (aside from Fahrenheit 9/11, of course).

And also, from my perspective, he didn't go "stomping with rage" at the fact that CNN shared their opinion about the film. He was "stomping with rage" at the fact that there was an entire session of nit picking going on towards his documentary before he was even allowed to speak. Not to mention pretty much the entire segment was proven false, as well. I don't know about you, Slyrr, but I'd be pretty mad too if I had made a documentary, only for some news segment to trample on it with inaccuracies, showing the public outright lies about the film. You're saying you wouldn't be mad about that? I think you would.

"I'm sure he agrees with free speech - but only the free speech that agrees with his point of view. CNN has just seen an example of how 'free' Moore would like speech to be by trying to stomp on them."
A good example of your accusation would be if Michael Moore tried to pay money to have that segment taken off of the air. THAT'd be him not believing in Free Speech. He did absolutely nothing that screamed "My opinion is the only correct opinion!". He hated the segment, got mad at its inaccuracies, and proved it wrong. If that's not free speech, then I don't know what is.

"Even conservative estimates say that for the government to pay for this so-called 'free' health coverage that Moore dreams of, your ever-ready goverment is poised to take at least 50% out of each and every one of your paychecks" Not that I’m supremely educated on this little nugget, but this sounds extremely distorted and very wrong. I'm DEFINITELY going to need citation on that one, or at least more reasoning behind this, because I don't see Canadians getting 50% of their paychecks taken out (Yes, I understand GROSS, not NET).

"We all saw what happened when Moore ran into an opposing point of view - he started gnashing his teeth and stamping his feet in rage. Because he THOUGHT these reporters were supposed to be on 'his' side and say nothing against him." I know, right? Because these guys were SO FOR HIM during his last documentary release, Fahrenheit 9/11. SO SUPPORTIVE that they attempted to rip it to shreds. Damn, I’m surprised Michael didn’t expect a hug from Blitzer before the interview started. Maybe THAT’S why he was upset.

"Fact is, this movie Moore made is so wrong in so many instances, that even the 'news' network that wrote glowing reviews for it couldn't believe all his distortions and inaccuracies." Um, what? First of all, that doesn't make sense. Second, if you're referring to CNN, they simply said "It was good, but these were the minor details that aren’t true…”. Even Wolf Blitzer after the interview admitted that he thought the documentary was especially powerful and overall “good”, and that he liked it. There are so many other sources (both right and left) that researched this documentary and said that it ‘checked out’ as being true. So what exactly are you referring to?

There’s more, but this is entirely too long already. Sorry for this.

@ Slyrr

You sound like Nazi Shit who watches Fox and you make little sense you ignorant fuck.
Stay inside. Do your usual lame ass boring shit. Don't travel. Watch more CNN. Die mentally in your cocoon.

nice one antimatter, way to be social.

you sound nothing like a "nazi shit" obviously.

Eh... symptoms of a growing community, MINK. There's a price to pay for a bigger community. Trolls...

@ Slyrr

Very simple bro. Medical Insurance in America is FOR Profit. The less care and less procedures people receive, the MORE profit Medical Insurance companies get. Therefore, medical insurance companies try everything within the law to limit people receiving care or procedures. Yes, it is that simple. With socialized medicine, they've got NO reason to withhold care other than medical reasons. Insurance has the second highest profit margins next to banks.

It's also sort of an oligopoly, most people are stuck with the insurance company that their employers offer and can't shop around if they're unsatisfied. It may be different if the market was flooded with health insurance companies and they really had to compete, but as of now people are usually locked in. (I'm just saying if I was a free market capitalist, this would make me feel better.)

Moore is just inches away from Bill O'Reilly... jesus...

And I think he has a very left wing outlook about anything. They were going to talk about the movie 'Sicko', and all of sudden it's about the war in Iraq.

And yes, DR. Sanje Gupta did some nit picking there, but man... Michael Moore is willing to stoop down to that level.

This is why even though Moore shares a lot of my political views, I don't want Michael Moore to be representing them. He's so obsessed with it that he will goto extremes. Kinda like how I support treating animals well, but not to extremes that PETA takes.

But then again, it's the only way to make your opinion heard in this big big world, by being loud and extreme.

Yeah, the antimatter comment is the very reason why I don't read YouTube's. It's just a bunch of...that.

It's just interesting to me that the very person who made a post like that is the same one who said "what is this, youtube?" in response to Rotty.

agreed legacy... Moore tends to be highly vitriolic, enough so that I don't want him being a spokesperson for my views.

enzoblue - even if for-profit companies were completely removed from the healthcare equation, it would not remove the need for cost control. Every socialized medical system in the world has some kind of cost controls.

If we really wanted to reduce healthcare costs in this country, we would do things like banning cigarettes outright, require comprehensive physical and sex education in schools, have much stronger food labeling laws, increase funding for local health clinics (so poor folk don't have to go to the emergency room to see a doctor), etc., etc. But I doubt any of these things are going to happen.

On a side note... Newshour on PBS last night had a good piece on political pressure being put on the Surgeon General: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec07/carmona_07-10.html
(there's video also available, but the link is like 300 characters long - just go to recent programs).

Hey karaidl,

This site in on the INTERNET. It's not your personal sandbox. If you don't like peoples opinions, it probably means this site is getting MORE diversified. And I can see that a certain group here doesn't like that. Why don't you start your own therapy group that always agrees with you?

The Cuban hospitals that Moore DIDN'T want you to see....

http://newsbusters.org/node/14029

And one doubter in the above posts (who was much more polite than most here) asked for verification on the cost of Moore's 'free' health care utopia. I suggest reading this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-HealthCare-Americas-Consumer-Driven/dp/0071487808

It's a little older now, but they put the total cost of health care in the US at about 2 TRILLION dollars. The current Federal budget is 2.7 trillion dollars. Which means that if the government 'takes over' health care, then they're gonna need to effectively double the amount of money they 'need' to take into through taxation. And who's pockets is it going to come out of? And do you really think it'll stay at that amount? When has any program run by the government EVER run at or below it's 'projected' cost? (Short answer: they always go OVER budget. Way overbudget. Because they look on you as a never-ending sponge they can just keep wringing and twisting whenever they feel like it. Whenever government types get together to discuss a tax increase (which is what 'free' medical care will be), do you ever hear them say anything like "Well gee, I wonder if the people can afford this?")

Wikipedia puts the total amount that is currently spent in this country on health care at about 15% of the total GDP - 'more than any other nation'. The true culprits behind the spiralling costs of insurance and medical treatment are the trial lawyers who browbeat people into suing for ridiculous amounts of money. Doctors are flooding to Texas from other states because they put a cap there on the total amount that can be sued out of a doctor for malpractice. Doctors in other states are going out of business because they can't afford the malpractice insurance they need to keep these ambulance chasing lawyers off their backs.

This isn't information that you need a secret decoder ring to get people - it's right out there on the internet for anyone to find - if you've got the courage to look for it.

CNN is another gangsta of the drive-by media and helps carry water for the Dems, so why are they arguing with Moore?

It's profit incentive that keeps US healthcare on top. We're the innovators; the socialist countries' nannycare wouldn't be half as good if it wasn't for our new drugs and tech.

If you want the same government that can't deliver the mail, secure the border or make the trains run on time taking a scalpel to your flesh...good luck with THAT.

Two words: Doctor shortage.

Sometimes I wonder if QM is acting.

YO lol qm...

AFAIK america is number one for treating gunshot wounds, strange nose shapes and obesity lol.

go and get a french train to Berlin and see what happens. My guess is you will arrive on time and it will be comfortable.

And i let the Lithuanian National Health Service "cut my flesh" and everything was OK thanks for asking.

My friend is a doctor at a community hospital, and of course he loves Medicare/Medicaid, it's free money in his pockets. He also thinks the system is incredibly stupid, fraud ridden, and should be completely revised from top to bottom.

Michael Moore saying that doctors prefer Medicare patients is just more of his deceptive bullshit. It doesn't imply it's actually a good system at all. Guiliani is right -- the free market is the only answer.

Upvote for Lou Dobb's brilliant douche-bag ending!

"1) Objective journalism never existed and never will. All is propaganda. "

thank god the sane are among us....

hey antimatter, yer creds dead fred, expect the worst....

Any good health care system should include preventative maintenance...America's sucks, because her people are programmed idiots....who spend too much time, listening to their ringleaders, mainstream media-If it were a healthy country, there would be no $$ spent on fast food advertising, because there would be no-one eating that poison-Insurance companies would go bankrupt due to lack of claims, and pharmaceutical companies would belly-up, because folks would not need THEIR poison....shall we continue??? Diabetes would all but disappear, shortly after the country was weened off refined sugars, because no advertising $$ would be used to promote shit like Corn Smacks and Coco-Cola (up to chogg, we'd have the cocaine back in the shit)

Legalize all drugs, and let those abuse who will abuse, use, and lose.

Now....to tackle the real power....Oil, MIC (military industrial complex), and the FED...this is a hard one....start by staying home from work for a week, and not using gas, this tactic repeated until demands are met-soldiers, tell you commanding officers to blow you, and go back home...(mass AWOL)-*note: can't do this with countries like China and N.Korea being fascist/socialist, gotta end that shit first-

See where were going with this??? As long as clueless, lazy, domesticated primates give the power they have to idiots (everyone running for president 08', and current reps and congress-folk) change will come in the form of ever increasing waves of bullshit......till te whole world goes non-linear-

Mike Moore, you fat, bitter fuck. Please, super-size yer ineffectual, self-serving ass, off the TV, and off the planet....Slow, pathetic, death, is a hard one to watch...yer cult of personality, includes mostly, the bought and paid for, with crocodile tears, and vampire blood.....

I love new "user" arguments. Always so level-headed and patient. Like Youtube! I'm going to go not live up to my screen name somewhere else now.

wow chogs... a libertarian after my own heart

sort of. I'm not sure I'm ready to return to law of the jungle just yet. Maybe enough years of realizing that there is a ruling class, and we ain't it, might change my mind.

For the moment, though, I'm still willing to believe that not everyone is just looking out for #1.

quick shot - The one problem with legalizing _all_ drugs (and for the most part I'd probably favor it anyway), is that there are substances out there that regardless of who you are - they will break your mind. And broken minds are really dangerous to be around, kind of like psychotic kidnapping dictators with the largest standing army on the planet. Ok, not the best analogy, but I hope you get the point.

@karaidl ROFL qm acting....

Come on people.. Is anyone here really happy with their healthcare as it is? Does anyone else cringe when they see pharma ads on TV creating new ailments to be treated by new drugs? Do you like the idea of drug reps pushing their wares behind whitened teeth, pressed suits, and free lunches?

Are you trying to tell me that we've come this far and we can't ensure that EVERYONE on the planet gets treatment for what ails them?

Please! Just let the greed bleed from your souls, not the health from our veins.

Great sift by the way, the Larry King showdown is pretty good too.

Moore ++

Lou Dobbs --
Sanje Gupta --
Wolf Blitzer --

Friggin talking heads.

Perhaps while legalizing all drugs in their purest forms, while simultaneously making all prescription controlled substances obsolete through right living and thinking.....folks who have never programmed their bodies to rely on sugar, for instance, become ill if they eat too much.....same with antidepressant addicts.....seen folks tolerances that were violently scary...same dose, would put some in an emergency room...and WHY again is it that anti-depressants were developed and manufactured???...why were there more heroin addicts in the US after the civil war?? Pain-killer addiction, morphine, heroin.....fast forward to now, we traded drugs that have been here since Methusela's day, for some pay-to-the-man, legal addictive synthesized shinola that renders the post-industrial prole, a simpering, passive-aggressive, robot.....HAH! the prospect of the alternative to the republican party in the US's next go-round, make ya wanna just scream from yer spaceship, -Silly, pathetic humans, soon you will meet your own insanity head-on!!.....(got any popcorn???let's watch that shit!!)

Election 08' vote same, vote lame, pick the most-used, paid-for name, just make sure, it don't say it's the same....red team blue team, rah rah rah..

(damn, did we vote yet???)

Rotty, antimatter, and Slyrr... the Troll Trifecta. QM, you really have your work cut out for you. If you don't start pumping out hateful, spiteful dogma in much greater quantity than you usually do, it looks like you may lose your position as our honorary Numbnut.

@karaidl et al - many ways to deal with trolls, or simlar behaviour, but showing a more positive attitude - lead by example, that sort of thing.

I've been, you know, rather busy enjoying the sunshine but I'll try and stumble into the top 15 with some regularity. One of the delightful things about the Sift is the civil level of discourse. Ad hominem attacks are strongly discouraged. But that applies to both fellow users, and people in general.

We don't moderate the comments, so please keep your commentary civil to preserve the good natured discourse people enjoy at the Sift. There's enough 5-word epithet slamming on YT.

That is, of course, what some old-timers referenced in their comments, but I figure it had to be restated a bit so people don't take it the wrong way.

Interesting points all around. As a Canadian, I am of course not impressed by knee-jerk reactions against universal health care.

I mean, I got a $160 bill for a single doctor's visit in the States. On the upside, service at the private clinic was great - short line, friendly help.

But we get friendly help here, moderate lines, and I don't have to wait until the end of the summer to be paid back by an insurance company for my health care if I get it in Canada - there's no money for me to worry about. With the American transaction, though, I'm waiting at least until the end of the summer.

Fortunately I can survive the summer without the bucks, but it still sucks. And it would suck harder if I was waiting for a more significant amount to get back to me. Though in fairness, the insurance company I'm dealing with, anyway, would try and deal with the costs up-front for me rather than sticking me with the bill.

Regardless, though, it's a sucky system that definitely needs reform.

I'll shamelessly cite the discussion on my blog on this topic.
http://krupo.ca/archive/2007/06/29/what-will-sicko-s-immediate-effects-be-on-health-care-in-other-countries.aspx
Check it out if you want more of my opinion.

OMG, that CNN clip is irritating as hell. That Deloitte analyst looks smug as hell. Moore totally deserves to go to town on those people.

Moore's also right about the MSM not doing their job before the war. Kudos to him. Wolf is such a tool too.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the broadcast technician screwed up.

Lou Dobbs, on the other hand, looks like he got a super-heavy dose of valium or something. What a phony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

(cut and paste it; for some reason, VS dun like apostrophes in links)

yay.

Incidentally, is "BlitzTer" really the correct spelling?

/nitpick

*1stTube

Adding video to channels (1sttube) - requested by Grimm.