All religion is fail.

^Hey, you try understanding the world with a Bronze Age cognitive tool set and see how well you do. We're lucky they're not stoning gays to death anymore.

Religion enabling bigots since ... whenever the hell it was invented.

DID HE JUST SAY WE CANT MARRY WHO WE WANT?

SLIPPERY SLOPE THERE! TONY. SLIPPERY SLOPE!

Why didn't he just ask why you must have children then to stay married?

I would have asked Tony Perkins, ok when is the amendment coming to make sure it that Marriage is intended to raise children with one man and one woman. If you are not intending to have children, you shouldn't be allowed to marry.

Why not point to when mixed couples were not allowed to marry? That is one man and one woman, but the majority ruled against that for decades.

Ad campaigns are not in themself this important, the real target of this disagreement has to be people. And not the people who sponsored or publicly endorsed this message, but the people who let their personal opinion on human equality be influenced by televised commercials.

The real bullshit here is that a simple majority can modify the California Constitution. That needs to change. Any constitution worth anything should be difficult, but not impossible, to alter.

I'm very disappointed in my state.

But hopefully the courts will find a way to keep the bigots fuming until the masses evolve a little more.

^Does anyone know why the California constitution can be amended with a simple majority rather than a 60% or 2/3 majority? I believe I read in Arizona it's 60%.

You wanna know a state that is hard has hell to change its constitution?

Apparently the vermont constitution is the toughest to amend.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:A7Gdf5Sx9t8J:vermont-archives.org/govhistory/governance/constitution/amending.html+amending+the+vermont+constitut
ion&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE5D81F30F932A15751C1A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

I dont really think Savage owned anyone here, Tony didnt either. Yes Tony was spewing lies but he can claim the same. The problem with news broadcasts like this is it doesnt "PROVE" anything. I know they are just suppose to be the mediator but i think its their responsibility to fact check and call people out on bullshit other wise its nothing more than a soap box for both parties to talk over each other on. When Tony said young people did not overwhelmingly vote against 8 Anderson should of said "Hold it" then brought up the FACTS and then let them continue. If not its just two people calling each other liars all day.

two words. Civil Unions. That's still legal in CA. According to wikipedia:
"In California where domestic partnership has been available to same-sex couples since 2000, a wholesale revision of the law in 2005 has made it, like the New Jersey civil union law, equivalent to marriage in every respect at the state level, though neither is recognized by the federal government."

So maybe I'm missing something, what's the complaint about?

And no, there was no owning...Savage just wouldn't shut up...I can't stand it when people talk over eachother. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not allowed in debate teams, and it's just not nice...I don't care which side is doing it.

Dan Savage is right. The Mormon is wrong (but how could a made up religion based on another made up religion go wrong!).

Religious bigots are not on the wrong side of history. They ARE history. Soon they'll be nothing more than. Logic dictates it, so does evolution. Whether we'll see bigger strides then we have is anyone's guess.

I'll never tell another person what they can do as long as they are not harming others physically. Period.

Civil Unions? Are people really still attempting to argue that that negates people's rights to full legal marriage? That's like saying "Hey, just FYI, since you're [insert any minority group here], we're going to have special laws that govern YOUR private life. Cuz, you know, we can."

Why are people so threatened by the idea of gay people having the right to get married? It's legal here in Canada and we haven't exploded or taken to marrying dogs and fucking in the streets. GET OVER YOURSELVES.

PS I like the "Oh you strip me of my rights and I interrupt you. Who's really suffering here?" lol.

>> ^vairetube:
I'll never tell another person what they can do as long as they are not harming others physically. Period.


And the quick, correct response to that is "So it's okay to have sex w/ animals and furniture?"

That kind of blanket statement is dangerous.

Did anyone else here wish that Savage had said in his parting words "I think it's appropriate that the Mormon is the one who brought up the topic of bigomy"? (referencing the 3 dads, 3 moms statement)

Here's that tyranny of the majority term again. Which is still new to me.

I do really like Dan's point about "redefining marriage". Marriage didn't use to be about two people that love each other. It was all about property and money.

Though Dan continuing to interrupt was not helpful to his argument.

>> ^yonderboy:
>> ^vairetube:
I'll never tell another person what they can do as long as they are not harming others physically. Period.

And the quick, correct response to that is "So it's okay to have sex w/ animals and furniture?"
That kind of blanket statement is dangerous.
Did anyone else here wish that Savage had said in his parting words "I think it's appropriate that the Mormon is the one who brought up the topic of bigomy"? (referencing the 3 dads, 3 moms statement)


Sex with animals is animal abuse. Sex with furniture is perfectly fine.

i wish some people would take their bible glasses off. The bible should have nothing do do with the laws that govern our country

*religion

Adding video to channels (Religion) - requested by jimnms.

>> ^Irishman:
All religion is fail.


Myself being a man of faith I am against homosexuality, however, I am 100% for gay marriage. It is important to distinguish (although, not separate) my loyalties. I am a Christian and also an American.

So if I may fix your quote, "All stupid, clinging-to-Sunday-school-theology, religious people are fail"

I really wish these shows would alternately turn on the mics of the guests so they can't talk over each other.

>> ^Irishman:
All religion is fail.


How do we top that?

I just like the lines,

"Do you think you'll be on the wrong side of history?"

"No."

Cause history books will either be burned.. or rewritten?

>> ^rasch187:
Ad campaigns are not in themself this important, the real target of this disagreement has to be people. And not the people who sponsored or publicly endorsed this message, but the people who let their personal opinion on human equality be influenced by televised commercials.


Bravo.

This whole thing is dumb, why do we keep sifting this crap? Why does everyone keep pissing and moaning over this? In another year it will be back on the ballet and if what Dan said was true (that the anti-8 crowd is gaining steam) then gay marriage will be legal. Case closed, in the mean time there's no point to making noise about it.

I hate to mention it, but Tony is right about the vandalism, etc. I've heard reports (first hand) about what has been going on to Mormon churches and it has been vandalism, intimidation and borderline violence in a lot of cases. You have a right to peaceful protest, but apparently that wasn't getting the reaction desired. I don't see a problem with any organization requesting it's members to not be threatened and it's property to be legally regarded. Part of the problem with this is Governor Arnold was against Prop. 8 and is ignoring these not-so-peaceful protests.

Ironic to make threats against others while claiming to be oppressed.

Religion is fail? Then what is liberal fascism, besides very real?

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Thursday, November 13th, 2008 10:36am PST - promote requested by MycroftHomlz.

Well, so much for the generalization of Mormons being happy people who don't mind others believing other things. I guess they are just as hate-filled as other religious right-wing nutjobs.

assertion: theres not a single person posting here who believes in human rights, so maybe relax with your hypocrisy?

proof: not a single person posting here can answer "yes" to these five questions:

1. should gay marriage and polygamy be legal?
2. should minimum wage be illegal?
3. should all firearms, chemical, and nuclear weapons be legal?
4. should drunk driving be legal?
5. should taxation be illegal?

>> ^quantumushroom:
Religion is fail? Then what is liberal fascism, besides very real?

Liberal fascism is an oxymoron. The definition of fascism includes mass movements of unified ideological nationalism, racism and militarism. Liberalism on the contrary includes the individualization of ideological trends - freedom of thought and speech - which begets the necessary acceptance of other nationalities and races (otherwise you're inconsistent, and that was what most of the Fathers of the Constitution were) and doesn't include a specific military ideology. In fact, the closest thing to mainstream fascism today in the western world is the current trend of American conservatism which is an amalgam of neoliberal economic theory, essentially laissez-faire capitalism, and religious fundamentalism. Religious fundamentalism includes many of the defining features of fascism, and so when religious fundamentalist take political power they tend to become fascists. Historically, fascist leaders indeed found their strongest supporters in organized religions. This was especially evident in Franquist Spain but was also true of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

>> ^Aemaeth:
Ironic to make threats against others while claiming to be oppressed.


I think you missed the part where he talked about people firebombing gay bars and hate crimes against homosexuals that lead to death. I would take graffiti over that kind of protest any day.

harsh... one man debating on the abstract, one man debating on what he lives with every day

>> ^imstellar28:
assertion: theres not a single person posting here who believes in human rights, so maybe relax with your hypocrisy?
proof: not a single person posting here can answer "yes" to these five questions:
1. should gay marriage and polygamy be legal?
2. should minimum wage be illegal?
3. should all firearms, chemical, and nuclear weapons be legal?
4. should drunk driving be legal?
5. should taxation be illegal?


I hope i dont have to point out the utter stupidity in that comment (with the exception of number 1)

I think you have a grave misunderstanding of what the definition of human rights is.

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