Spot on.

http://blog.videosift.com/gwiz665/A-mosque-at-ground-zero

"Did you just mean YOUR religion?"

Yes, they really did. Un-American, freedom-hating, bigoted, xenophobic assholes. They sure like to talk the talk, but they're the real threat to America... wolves in sheeps' clothing.

I think the major distinction here is that mosques are known to NR hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism all over the western world, from the Czech Republic to Australia.

Churches (minus one in particular I'm sure someone would point out were it not for these parentheses), as far as I am aware, have never been accused of recruiting paramilitary forces or plotting murder.

There's a reason noone would've objected to a Bhuddist temple... it's not prejudice, it's having your head out of the sand.

^ +1

And to be clear. The city planners are not objecting to the Mosque in principle (although there are probably some people that are), they just want it somewhere else. I tend to agree with this. For a city the size of NY, the location can be moved a few blocks and it becomes a mute point.

One very great attribute that the US and Canada can brag about is that they've been the best at bringing people of different cultures into normality within society. For many decades. Now for political points these right wing politicians from the states want to score points by demonizing a minority. >> ^Pprt:

I think the major distinction here is that mosques are known to NR hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism all over the western world, from the Czech Republic to Australia.
Churches (minus one in particular I'm sure someone would point out were it not for these parentheses), as far as I am aware, have never been accused of recruiting paramilitary forces or plotting murder.
There's a reason noone would've objected to a Bhuddist temple... it's not prejudice, it's having your head out of the sand.

>> ^Pprt:

I think the major distinction here is that mosques are known to NR hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism all over the western world, from the Czech Republic to Australia.
Churches (minus one in particular I'm sure someone would point out were it not for these parentheses), as far as I am aware, have never been accused of recruiting paramilitary forces or plotting murder.
There's a reason noone would've objected to a Bhuddist temple... it's not prejudice, it's having your head out of the sand.

Really? You think they all go to prayers, have idle chit chat about how they hate freedom and run a bomb making production line?

Its really simple, the vast majority of muslims are basically peaceful. Hell, I dislike their religion, I don't agree with a lot of their beliefs but the truth is that mosques aren't teror training camps. Sometimes you get one where one bad egg preaches hate, we had that here in the UK a while back, but banning Mosques is not the correct response. By reacting this way to Islam you run the risk of alienating moderate muslims. This is the mistake America makes over and over. You cannot fight an idea or belief. You can't go to war with it, you sure as hell can't restrict or silence it because all you do is fuel the fire of the extremists. You cherish freedom? THEN FUCKING SHOW IT.

Being a Muslim is not a crime but if you treat like such then you'll end up with a lot of criminals.

Do you think it is possible that an enemy exploit your weakness? What if this weakness is so glaringly obvious because it is your sole sense of national pride?

Accepting things that are completely alien to our civilization and contrary to Western principles is NOT enriching.

There is absolutely no net "attribute" in allowing men to force women to cover themselves with sheets when going outside, there is no betterment of our social institutions to allow sexism to creep back, there is no advantage in harboring the most hateful preachers on the planet and there is certainly no altruism in encouraging the returning shackles of religious fundamentalism.

This "community center" is an obvious attempt to show that no matter what our sensibilities are, we will ALWAYS put them aside in order to demonstrate a deep and unrelenting "respect" for absolutely anything under the sun except ourselves.

Remember that if you believe in "everything", you essentially believe in nothing.
>> ^geo321:

One very great attribute that the US and Canada can brag about is that they've been the best at bringing people of different cultures into normality within society. For many decades. Now for political points these right wing politicians from the states want to score points by demonizing a minority. >> ^Pprt:
I think the major distinction here is that mosques are known to NR hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism all over the western world, from the Czech Republic to Australia.
Churches (minus one in particular I'm sure someone would point out were it not for these parentheses), as far as I am aware, have never been accused of recruiting paramilitary forces or plotting murder.
There's a reason noone would've objected to a Bhuddist temple... it's not prejudice, it's having your head out of the sand.

>> ^maximillian:

^ +1
And to be clear. The city planners are not objecting to the Mosque in principle (although there are probably some people that are), they just want it somewhere else. I tend to agree with this. For a city the size of NY, the location can be moved a few blocks and it becomes a mute point.


The proposed site is 5 blocks away.

You obviously have never lived in a multicultural neighbourhood. If you did you'd realize that the chinese family where you buy your plants from want to enjoy their lives, the Iranian couple who own the funky restaurant on the corner love to see their regular cusomers of any faith,race or whatever come through the door as long as it's a friendly face, or the Caribbean place selling rotis. Take your narrow minded fear mongering back where you came from.>> ^Pprt:

Do you think it is possible that an enemy exploit your weakness? What if this weakness is so glaringly obvious because it is your sole sense of national pride?
Accepting things that are completely alien to our civilization and contrary to Western principles is NOT enriching.
There is absolutely no net "attribute" in allowing men to force women to cover themselves with sheets when going outside, there is no betterment of our social institutions to allow sexism to creep back, there is no advantage in harboring the most hateful preachers on the planet and there is certainly no altruism in encouraging the returning shackles of religious fundamentalism.
This "community center" is an obvious attempt to show that no matter what our sensibilities are, we will ALWAYS put them aside in order to demonstrate a deep and unrelenting "respect" for absolutely anything under the sun except ourselves.
Remember that if you believe in "everything", you essentially believe in nothing.
<div><div style="margin: 10px; overflow: auto; width: 80%; float: left; position: relative;" class="convoPiece"> geo321 said:<img style="margin: 4px 10px 10px; float: left; width: 40px;" src="http://static1.videosift.com/avatars/g/geo321-s.jpg" onerror="ph(this)"><div style="position: absolute; margin-left: 52px; padding-top: 1px; font-size: 10px;" class="commentarrow">◄</div><div style="padding: 8px; margin-left: 60px; margin-top: 2px; min-height: 30px;" class="nestedComment box">One very great attribute that the US and Canada can brag about is that they've been the best at bringing people of different cultures into normality within society. For many decades. Now for political points these right wing politicians from the states want to score points by demonizing a minority. </div></div></div>
<div><div style="margin: 10px; overflow: auto; width: 80%; float: right; position: relative;" class="convoPiece"> Pprt said:<img style="margin: 4px 10px 10px; float: right; width: 40px;" src="http://static1.videosift.com/avatars/default-s.png" onerror="ph(this)"><div style="position: absolute; margin-top: 1px; right: 52px; font-size: 10px;" class="commentarrow">►</div><div style="padding: 8px; margin-right: 60px; margin-top: 2px; min-height: 30px;" class="nestedComment box">I think the major distinction here is that mosques are known to NR hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism all over the western world, from the Czech Republic to Australia.
Churches (minus one in particular I'm sure someone would point out were it not for these parentheses), as far as I am aware, have never been accused of recruiting paramilitary forces or plotting murder.
There's a reason noone would've objected to a Bhuddist temple... it's not prejudice, it's having your head out of the sand.
</div></div></div>

^I don't know what happened there

Oh man Pprt. The "enemy" is not every muslim in the New York area. There not going to take over America from their little community center. If it offends you, well, err, tough basically.

Give the man his own TV, non-web show.

I like this new Ed. I hope they make it permanent.

*equality

Adding video to channels (Equality) - requested by NetRunner.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Cenk got hired by a major TV network.

I would have to agree with Obama that they do have the right to build a mosque there, but I don't think it was the wisest thing to do. It seems obvious to me that the bridge building idea isn't working out too well so far.

So it's not okay to build a mosque near Ground Zero, but it's okay to build US military bases in Islamic countries?

>> ^jwray:

I'm pleasantly surprised that Cenk got hired by a major TV network.


Naw, he's only guest hosting here and there at the moment, but the writing is on the wall that he'll be getting his own show.

The week where he stood in for Dylan Ratigan saw MSNBCs ratings go through the roof, smashing those of all the other cable news programs. The execs are realising that people aren't watching TV for their information anymore, it's all online now and they're taking their lunch.

>> ^Pprt:

Do you think it is possible that an enemy exploit your weakness? What if this weakness is so glaringly obvious because it is your sole sense of national pride?
Accepting things that are completely alien to our civilization and contrary to Western principles is NOT enriching.




Stop fear mongering. I would also like to point out that that last sentence I quoted is extremely ethnocentric and close-minded.

>> ^thinker247:

So it's not okay to build a mosque near Ground Zero, but it's okay to build US military bases in Islamic countries?


Somewhat different topic, but why is it ok for the US to have military bases in any other country? Could you imagine an Iraqi base in the US? Even if one of their closest allies, the British had one, there would be a lot of people getting upset about that too.

*quality *promote

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by jwray.

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Tuesday, August 17th, 2010 2:28pm PDT - promote requested by jwray.

It's not a mosque. It's a cultural center.

Xenophobes like Pprt are tools who are actually playing into bin Laden's hands. Bin Laden wants people to wage his holy war against. Religious zealots always like fighting with other zealots. Because idiots are prone to violence.

What better way to show bin Laden he's losing by building a cultural center where people can learn about and practice a modern, moderate form of Islam.

Pprt, please educate yourself. At least read a little of the Skeptics Annotated Quran. It seems you don't "know your [supposed] enemy" at all. Sure you could just pick out the "Cruelty and Violence" (the bible has plenty of that too), or maybe you could just click the "Good Stuff" link and find parallels to your own belief system (whatever that may be).

Newt is right. Its not a Cultural its a slap in the face of Americans.

>> ^bobknight33:

Newt is right. Its not a Cultural its a slap in the face of Americans.


Newt has never been right about anything. He's a power-thirsty adulterer for whom "in sickness and in health" has no meaning.

Lincoln said it best: "The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Any religion besides islam is believable when its reps call for peace and tolerance. 7th century savages are not believable. thereligionofpeace.com

Cenk, if your listening... we await your utter corruption by the "man" but will be most pleasantly surprised if you stay true to the values that many of us support but don't so eloquently express.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Lincoln said it best: "The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Any religion besides islam is believable when its reps call for peace and tolerance. 7th century savages are not believable. thereligionofpeace.com


It doesn't fucking matter if you don't like their religion! I think Islam is full of wrong ideas too, but that's completely beside the point.

The POINT is that the government can't sponsor one religion over another, and can't persecute one religion over any other.

It wouldn't matter if this were a church of satan, scientology, wikka, or jesus. They're all the same in the eyes of the state (or at least they should be).

The true test of anyone who believes in the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights isn't when they are defending their own rights or the rights of people they agree with... it's when they defend the rights of someone they completely disagree with.

Freecountrybuildwhateverthefuckyouwantwhereverthefuckyouwant. There. Discussion over in one word.

People like Newt piss on the graves of the thousands of Americans who have died defending their Consitution. They piss on the graves of my fellow Canadians too, as our society shares most, if not all, of those beliefs. Tolerance is a goal, it can never be "achieved", because as new ideas are generated, someone, somewhere, will disagree with it. The North American way of life requires tolerance, it will die without it.

Young Turks guy comes on and fails to clarify what Obama said when he easily could have, boo.

Obama's stance from both clips seems pretty clear. He unreservedly supports and protects the right for people to build the mosque, as it is their right. He later refuses to comment on how wise it is for people to exercise that right so close to ground zero. No two sided or have it both ways ambiguity to that except for those too far left or right to recognize common sense.

Personally I think Obama didn't go far enough with his last statement. Building the mosque so close to ground zero is a terrible plan, though 100% legal and the unalienable right of those building it. It is a bad idea not because it angers anyone, but because the very same extremists that destroyed the WTC buildings WILL claim the construction of this mosque as a direct result of their actions, and as a victory of their methods. Worse still, very many of the people they are recruiting will agree and be swayed toward their cause and methods.

I can't believe major news networks can get away with comparing building a mosque near 9/11 to putting up a Nazi sign next to a holocaust museum, people are so retarded. I also love the nerve some of these people (and some of the sifters here) have in preaching against Islam. Nobody fucking cares if you think Islam is not a peaceful religion, what the fuck is a peaceful religion? If it were up to me I'd see all religions obliterated, but I realize (and the fact most of humanity fails to realize this amazes me again and again) that what I want has no fucking relevance, people have rights, and trying to deny them is the first step in having them denied of you. And to any one childish enough to claim they're offended by a mosque in the general vicinity of WTC, grow the fuck up, I'm offended by the very existence of religion, it insults my intelligence, you don't see me burning down churches and synagogues.

Lack of tolerance of islam or any religion really only makes it stronger...
Lack of tolerance creates more division, more xenophobia. It strengthens the arguments of the extremes. It caters to the attachment of identity with religion. The more any group feels oppressed, the further it separates itself and its ideals. A lack of tolerance is an invitation to extremism.

That being said...IMHO religion is a major obstacle to the evolution of the species, and the best way to rid ourselves of it is to tolerate it completely, and regard it as a non-threat to logic, thought, and science.

Focusing back to the topic at hand. Obama said that any religion has the right to build their place of worship on private property. And THEN he said he "will not make a comment about the 'wisdom' of making a decision to put a mosque there". He's pretty much saying that we have to let the mosque be built there to maintain our freedom of religion in full, but he thinks it's fucking retarded to do that.

Read between the lines...

islam--properly observed--tolerates no other faiths. muslims kill atheists and other unbelievers. muslims do not adapt to other cultures, they conquer them by deception and murder, methods sanctioned by the quran. The handful of "moderate Muslims"--who are not behind building this affront to decency--are to eventually be slaughtered as traitors. And the liberal, who claims to hate fascism, turns a blind eye to 13 centuries of muslim mayhem to defend a Constitution s/he only obeys when convenient.

Buddhists aren't sending suicide bombers into crowded malls. Satanists aren't shooting up American Army bases. We're at war with muslim values, a war we didn't choose, just like all the other nations and cultures which didn't choose to be invaded over the centuries.

There is no possible way for any culture to live in harmony with muslims, any more than it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

You say you want peace? They don't. Stop pretending these vermin are just another sect of Quakers!

thereligionofpeace.com

When you say" The POINT is that the government can't sponsor one religion over another, and can't persecute one religion over any other." Your are right to a point. All religions are to allowed to be expressed . but when the religion calls for the murder of others for not conforming or converting then the religion has gone too far.


What if there was a religion that called for the annihilation for all people that does not subscribe conservative mindset? Would you and leftest friends be so tolerant then? Oh wait the Muslim are the ultimate conservatives. Every one else are their leftest. They are here to kill you and me!

From above Quantumushroom has it right. Do you really want that shit living near you or you family.

>> ^KnivesOut:

>> ^quantumushroom:
Lincoln said it best: "The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Any religion besides islam is believable when its reps call for peace and tolerance. 7th century savages are not believable. thereligionofpeace.com

It doesn't fucking matter if you don't like their religion! I think Islam is full of wrong ideas too, but that's completely beside the point.
The POINT is that the government can't sponsor one religion over another, and can't persecute one religion over any other.
It wouldn't matter if this were a church of satan, scientology, wikka, or jesus. They're all the same in the eyes of the state (or at least they should be).

You're judging the entire community by the actions of a few.

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/other.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_other_religions
http://www.muslim.org/islam/tolerance.htm
http://www.islamfortoday.com/beliefs.htm

There are fundamentalist Christians that think its just fine to plant bombs at abortion clinics. Do we judge the entire faith by the actions of these extremists?

You are one hateful fucker... Why just Islam though? Do you need to be reminded of the long and bloody trail Christianity has carved through history? And even today it is responsible for some of the most shocking acts of violence and bigotry. Religions suck, but that doesn't mean you have any right to deny it of people. And standing on the side lecturing about a subject you know nothing of only shows ignorance...

>> ^quantumushroom:

islam--properly observed--tolerates no other faiths. muslims kill atheists and other unbelievers. muslims do not adapt to other cultures, they conquer them by deception and murder, methods sanctioned by the quran. The handful of "moderate Muslims"--who are not behind building this affront to decency--are to eventually be slaughtered as traitors. And the liberal, who claims to hate fascism, turns a blind eye to 13 centuries of muslim mayhem to defend a Constitution s/he only obeys when convenient.
Buddhists aren't sending suicide bombers into crowded malls. Satanists aren't shooting up American Army bases. We're at war with muslim values, a war we didn't choose, just like all the other nations and cultures which didn't choose to be invaded over the centuries.
There is no possible way for any culture to live in harmony with muslims, any more than it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
You say you want peace? They don't. Stop pretending these vermin are just another sect of Quakers!
thereligionofpeace.com

I have been searching for weeks for just one rational, logical, non-bigoted reason to oppose this religious architecture. Just one. No one can do it. I have begged people, and yet still I haven't heard one. I'm starting to conclude that there isn't one.

What I do hear? One hell of a lot of bigotry, and a bunch of pansy fence-straddling hand wringing. They say, yes they have the right. They say, this issue is ridiculous anyway, but lets keep whining about our feelings anyway as if that's not the reason people keep talking about it.

If you oppose this building, it is because either you have a problem with Muslims (and are a bigot), or it is because you support people with a problem with Muslims (which means you're a closet bigot), or it is because you are "offended" for apparently no god damned reason (drama queen/attention whore). Hey, if your gut just feels offended, that's alright with me. But it's not rational, and you shouldn't tell people how to conduct their business without a rational reason. And we shouldn't expect them to alter their behavior just because a few of us just can't get over a tragedy.

This "issue" is emblematic of the conservative problem in this country. The muslims have already compromised. But nothing short of complete submission is good enough for the right anymore, and that's why we're falling apart as a society right now. News flash: you can't always get what you want. Breaking: the world doesn't revolve around you. Time to grow up and join the larger society as a whole and stop standing in the way of progress just because you're not getting 110% of what you want out of life.

One rational, logical, non-bigoted reason. Anyone want to take a crack at that?

ps. Who will be the first to tell me I hate all the 9/11 victims? I'll admit right now I "hate" anyone who is manufacturing this outrage, and I don't care if they're "victims." I've lost people, too. After 9/11. So it's been less time for me, and yet I can avoid trying to use it as a shield for bigotry.