Absolutely reprehensible. My heart aches for those children and the one who is no longer with us.

yet another example of how religion keeps people living in the dark ages.

"Spanking"? That's like calling hitting someone with a car a fist fight. Absolutely disgusting.

out of all the scripture to take literally why that one?



and, btw, my mom used to spank me with a wooden spoon and despite the strange sexual repercussions, I don't think it had a negative impact.

I don't think they can blame that dude's book though...7 hours? really?

You gotta love the face of Michael Pearl's wife. "Just smile and act like nothing happened. We're all just cheery folk here. Nothing negative... nope."

Doesn't the bible also say; "an eye for an eye?" Give them the same "punishment" they delivered to that poor, poor child. Seriously, when are we going to be finally rid of these bronze age ideologies which are intent on taking us back to the dark ages?

I don't think spanking in general is "wrong" in all situations. Parents need to have freedom to decide what they think works best with their children in terms of rewards, punishments, and other systems of encouraging or discouraging specific behaviors.

I'd wager that anyone from the baby boomer generation or older probably grew up experiencing some corporal punishment / spanking along the lines of what the book author was describing. I think that is pretty much the far end of acceptable severity for today, and well beyond what I would do myself, but considering that so many people were exposed to that in previous generations it would be illogical to suggest that it is unacceptable or too extreme.

But like @rottenseed said, I don't think it is reasonable to blame that guy's book. These bastards beat their kids for hours. They beat them not to cause momentary pain, but to cause injury. The willingness to commit that sort of act doesn't come from reading a book and saying "hey, that sounds like a good idea"; there has to be some sort of screwup in their mental wiring. A screwup that is exacerbated by wacko fundamentalist bullshit, sure. But I think they are just wacko enough in general that they'd probably have been doing the exact same disgusting stuff whether they ever read that guy's book (or hell, even the 'spare the rod' tripe in the Bible) or not.

So the good news is that they can rot in jail. Far outweighed by the bad news that it took far to long to toss them in there, and a child died as a result. Disgusting.

And this is why dawkins and hitchens need to get a license to kill

They showed pictures of the two adopted black girls injuries, but were the white kids beaten like that? I mean......did they apply this to all their kids or just the adopted ones, or just the black ones?

I'd like to propose a means of punishment for those two. It involves some flexible objects and a spanking robot arm in a small cell without light.

>> ^MilkmanDan:

I don't think spanking in general is "wrong" in all situations. Parents need to have freedom to decide what they think works best with their children in terms of rewards, punishments, and other systems of encouraging or discouraging specific behaviors.
I'd wager that anyone from the baby boomer generation or older probably grew up experiencing some corporal punishment / spanking along the lines of what the book author was describing. I think that is pretty much the far end of acceptable severity for today, and well beyond what I would do myself, but considering that so many people were exposed to that in previous generations it would be illogical to suggest that it is unacceptable or too extreme.


Spanking needs to remain illegal. There is no clearly defined line otherwise between the moment you're spanking and the moment you are too/even more brutal. Imho, spanking above a light pat is always unnecessary and counterproductive, but I don't have children yet, so disregard my opinion if you guys want.

The 'older generations did it and all worked out' argument is not a good one. Older generations were not scientifically researched, at least my google-searches returned negative. It is not illogical to assume that it is unacceptable or too extreme.

We know that kids watching TV is far worse than spanking when one is done in moderation and one is not. And yet TV is abused hours on end as a mean of "babysitting." The argument that spanking needs stopped because there is no clear line is false.

There is no clear line when reckless driving happens. Is a turn without a blinker reckless? (I would say yes.) Is an hour shoved in front of a TV, all so the mom/father don't have to pay attention to the interrupting child abuse? (I would say, "Fuck yes.")

I have cut back on spanking my daughter, not because society says so. I do so because my oldest responds better to love... My second to alternative disciplines and my last, she is too young... However, every child is different.

P.S., In some ways I would have rather died than to have had my mother scream at me until 3 AM (No joke) about what a POS I was... Oh god how I wish she just beat me--then I would be justified for having a fucked mind...

>> ^DerHasisttot:

>> ^MilkmanDan:
I don't think spanking in general is "wrong" in all situations. Parents need to have freedom to decide what they think works best with their children in terms of rewards, punishments, and other systems of encouraging or discouraging specific behaviors.
I'd wager that anyone from the baby boomer generation or older probably grew up experiencing some corporal punishment / spanking along the lines of what the book author was describing. I think that is pretty much the far end of acceptable severity for today, and well beyond what I would do myself, but considering that so many people were exposed to that in previous generations it would be illogical to suggest that it is unacceptable or too extreme.

Spanking needs to remain illegal. There is no clearly defined line otherwise between the moment you're spanking and the moment you are too/even more brutal. Imho, spanking above a light pat is always unnecessary and counterproductive, but I don't have children yet, so disregard my opinion if you guys want.
The 'older generations did it and all worked out' argument is not a good one. Older generations were not scientifically researched, at least my google-searches returned negative. It is not illogical to assume that it is unacceptable or too extreme.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

We know that kids watching TV is far worse than spanking when one is done in moderation and one is not. And yet TV is abused hours on end as a mean of "babysitting." The argument that spanking needs stopped because there is no clear line is false.
There is no clear line when reckless driving happens. Is a turn without a blinker reckless? (I would say yes.) Is an hour shoved in front of a TV, all so the mom/father don't have to pay attention to the interrupting child abuse? (I would say, "Fuck yes.")
I have cut back on spanking my daughter, not because society says so. I do so because my oldest responds better to love... My second to alternative disciplines and my last, she is too young... However, every child is different.
P.S., In some ways I would have rather died than to have had my mother scream at me until 3 AM (No joke) about what a POS I was... Oh god how I wish she just beat me--then I would be justified for having a fucked mind...
>> ^DerHasisttot:
>> ^MilkmanDan:
I don't think spanking in general is "wrong" in all situations. Parents need to have freedom to decide what they think works best with their children in terms of rewards, punishments, and other systems of encouraging or discouraging specific behaviors.
I'd wager that anyone from the baby boomer generation or older probably grew up experiencing some corporal punishment / spanking along the lines of what the book author was describing. I think that is pretty much the far end of acceptable severity for today, and well beyond what I would do myself, but considering that so many people were exposed to that in previous generations it would be illogical to suggest that it is unacceptable or too extreme.

Spanking needs to remain illegal. There is no clearly defined line otherwise between the moment you're spanking and the moment you are too/even more brutal. Imho, spanking above a light pat is always unnecessary and counterproductive, but I don't have children yet, so disregard my opinion if you guys want.
The 'older generations did it and all worked out' argument is not a good one. Older generations were not scientifically researched, at least my google-searches returned negative. It is not illogical to assume that it is unacceptable or too extreme.



I did not say 'stopped,' I said it should be illegal. So when there is a case of abuse, a parent cannot just fall back on: "It was just a spanking." Under the rule of law, the right to be unharmed should stand above all punishments.

I don't think you can say with any credibility that these parents spanked their child.

Spanking is slapping them with the open hand and it's usually done on the buttocks where there is some padding.

They didn't spank her, they BEAT her with a metal rod.

You can't compare the mild spanking a regular parent might do with what these monsters did. And yeah, I'd be VERY curious to see if the white kids and the black kids got equal "training"

>> ^VoodooV:

I don't think you can say with any credibility that these parents spanked their child.
Spanking is slapping them with the open hand and it's usually done on the buttocks where there is some padding.
They didn't spank her, they BEAT her with a metal rod.
You can't compare the mild spanking a regular parent might do with what these monsters did. And yeah, I'd be VERY curious to see if the white kids and the black kids got equal "training"


Damn strait. I was spanked and after a few seconds it didn't even hurt anymore.

My parent's didn't ever really spank me as a punishment. It was just when I was around two years old, if I wasn't responding to a request or trying to frustrate my parents by being difficult, my mom would give me a whack on the diaper. The point was not to cause pain, just to sort of "reset" my behavior a little. It was really just something that reminded me who was in control. I'll probably do the same with my son but he's not even walking yet. And so far, he's a pretty easy kid.

Thought this was going to be a shinnyblurry post but sadly it was only another example of religious bullshit hurting real people. I guess they considered her suffering "worldly" rather than the far more important "godly" suffering Jesus went through or something, christ! I'm not a fucking christian, I don't know how it all works. Long story short, fuck shinnyblurry. He's worried videosift has a left leaning agenda, well good! His dumbshit ideas should be ridiculed. Too bad his posts are so fucking boring I switch off before my thoughs have been regrouped

Sorry, I assumed "stopped" meant "stopped being legal." So, what about the other forms of equal "abuse..." They are transparently abusive, so would you make them illegal?

>> ^DerHasisttot:

>> ^Lawdeedaw:
We know that kids watching TV is far worse than spanking when one is done in moderation and one is not. And yet TV is abused hours on end as a mean of "babysitting." The argument that spanking needs stopped because there is no clear line is false.
There is no clear line when reckless driving happens. Is a turn without a blinker reckless? (I would say yes.) Is an hour shoved in front of a TV, all so the mom/father don't have to pay attention to the interrupting child abuse? (I would say, "Fuck yes.")
I have cut back on spanking my daughter, not because society says so. I do so because my oldest responds better to love... My second to alternative disciplines and my last, she is too young... However, every child is different.
P.S., In some ways I would have rather died than to have had my mother scream at me until 3 AM (No joke) about what a POS I was... Oh god how I wish she just beat me--then I would be justified for having a fucked mind...
>> ^DerHasisttot:
>> ^MilkmanDan:
I don't think spanking in general is "wrong" in all situations. Parents need to have freedom to decide what they think works best with their children in terms of rewards, punishments, and other systems of encouraging or discouraging specific behaviors.
I'd wager that anyone from the baby boomer generation or older probably grew up experiencing some corporal punishment / spanking along the lines of what the book author was describing. I think that is pretty much the far end of acceptable severity for today, and well beyond what I would do myself, but considering that so many people were exposed to that in previous generations it would be illogical to suggest that it is unacceptable or too extreme.

Spanking needs to remain illegal. There is no clearly defined line otherwise between the moment you're spanking and the moment you are too/even more brutal. Imho, spanking above a light pat is always unnecessary and counterproductive, but I don't have children yet, so disregard my opinion if you guys want.
The 'older generations did it and all worked out' argument is not a good one. Older generations were not scientifically researched, at least my google-searches returned negative. It is not illogical to assume that it is unacceptable or too extreme.


I did not say 'stopped,' I said it should be illegal. So when there is a case of abuse, a parent cannot just fall back on: "It was just a spanking." Under the rule of law, the right to be unharmed should stand above all punishments.

>> ^acidSpine:

Thought this was going to be a shinnyblurry post but sadly it was only another example of religious bullshit hurting real people. I guess they considered her suffering "worldly" rather than the far more important "godly" suffering Jesus went through or something, christ! I'm not a fucking christian, I don't know how it all works. Long story short, fuck shinnyblurry. He's worried videosift has a left leaning agenda, well good! His dumbshit ideas should be ridiculed. Too bad his posts are so fucking boring I switch off before my thoughs have been regrouped


I'm very confused. shinnyblurry did not post a comment in this section. Slamming someone's character, especially for something s/he did not say in this area isn't what VS is about. I'd say let's keep the unwarranted personal slams to a minimum.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Sorry, I assumed "stopped" meant "stopped being legal." So, what about the other forms of equal "abuse..." They are transparently abusive, so would you make them illegal?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse

I just got up and skimmed it and related sites, to me it looks like psychological abuse is treated equally to physical abuse in the USA. I dunno

When I went to school, the teachers had paddles on their desks. And they weren't for playing ping pong, they were for spanking unruly little shits that disrupted the class. I remember one teachers paddle had holes drilled in it so there was less wind resistance and more whack. It was more to cause intimidation but, there were a few instances where the paddle was used as it was meant to. No one died from it.
To me, there is a very obvious and darkly colored line between spanking and abuse.

>> ^DerHasisttot:

>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Sorry, I assumed "stopped" meant "stopped being legal." So, what about the other forms of equal "abuse..." They are transparently abusive, so would you make them illegal?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse
I just got up and skimmed it and related sites, to me it looks like psychological abuse is treated equally to physical abuse in the USA. I dunno


You are correct. We tend to think psychological abuse is worse than physical abuse because, in our politically correct society, you can dish out psychological abuse every day of every week, whereas physical violence will result in sympathy for the child and ultimately may result in the parent losing said child.

And, when you emotionally abuse here in the states you (the parent) tend to get the sympathy while they (the abused) get the scorn. "Oh! What a horrible child you have to deal with...they should be sooooo happy to have a mother/father like you!"

My mom spanked the shit out of me until the day I laughed out loud in her face. I had never seen a human being turn that color of purple with rage. That being said, I remember laughing so hard and so long that she had to leave the house.

The book says "God would not have commanded parents to use the rod if it were not good for the child." You see, this is where rational people would say to themselves "maybe this God fella ain't so moral", and turn their back on the idiot bronze age desert spirit and his zombie son.

All I have to say that is, God loves you and I love you.

>> ^acidSpine:
Thought this was going to be a shinnyblurry post but sadly it was only another example of religious bullshit hurting real people. I guess they considered her suffering "worldly" rather than the far more important "godly" suffering Jesus went through or something, christ! I'm not a fucking christian, I don't know how it all works. Long story short, fuck shinnyblurry. He's worried videosift has a left leaning agenda, well good! His dumbshit ideas should be ridiculed. Too bad his posts are so fucking boring I switch off before my thoughs have been regrouped

"Let's say a 7 year old slugs his sister?"
"He would get...a 7 year old would get ten or fifteen licks, and it would be a formal setting, in other words, you maintain your patient air, you explain to him that what he's done was VIOLENT, and that that's not acceptable in society, and that's not acceptable in our home...and I would take him somewhere like into his bedroom and I would tell him I'm gonna give him fifteen licks, ..."
"With what?"
"With probably a belt, with a kid that big, a boy...I'd probably use, a belt would be handy...I might use a wooden spoon, or um, a piece of um, uh like plumbing supply line a quarter inch in diameter, flexible enough to roll up."

That should be admissible in court. Beat them in their bedrooms because violence is not acceptable in your home? Fuck you.

And yet these psychopaths can sell over 650'000 copies of their child abuse manual and get away with it, because of the sick tolerance towards religion.

>> ^laura:

"Let's say a 7 year old slugs his sister?"
"He would get...a 7 year old would get ten or fifteen licks, and it would be a formal setting, in other words, you maintain your patient air, you explain to him that what he's done was VIOLENT, and that that's not acceptable in society, and that's not acceptable in our home...and I would take him somewhere like into his bedroom and I would tell him I'm gonna give him fifteen licks, ..."
"With what?"
"With probably a belt, with a kid that big, a boy...I'd probably use, a belt would be handy...I might use a wooden spoon, or um, a piece of um, uh like plumbing supply line a quarter inch in diameter, flexible enough to roll up."
That should be admissible in court. Beat them in their bedrooms because violence is not acceptable in your home? Fuck you.

I don't know... this bothers me. The amount of people, even here it seems, who seem to think that spanking is the best thing since sliced bread bothers me. It's like with religious moderates that give cover for religious extremists with their weak arguments. If you have a whole society that basically agrees that spanking is okay, what do you think will happen?

If you have to resort to spanking I think you've basically failed right there. I had a step daughter for 3 years and never spanked her once, I don't go around spanking my friends or my boss when they behave badly, so I guess the argument is that children can only learn certain things through pain. I don't agree with that. It's easy (lazy) I guess, spank the child and the problem goes away.

I was spanked as a child also and it's definitely made me an angrier individual, not something I'm proud about.

7 hours...fuck...*tear*

Umm, that's not really true at all...in America there is a book on how to be a pedophile that was/is sold... Of course it teaches how to do it "gently" and be "reciprocal," but you get my point... This book was not written in any religious manner...

It has nothing to do with tolerance of anything besides the dark side of humanity. It has to do with the fact that there are 650,000 sick fucks out there. Just like there are pedo-people...

>> ^hpqp:

And yet these psychopaths can sell over 650'000 copies of their child abuse manual and get away with it, because of the sick tolerance towards religion.
>> ^laura:
"Let's say a 7 year old slugs his sister?"
"He would get...a 7 year old would get ten or fifteen licks, and it would be a formal setting, in other words, you maintain your patient air, you explain to him that what he's done was VIOLENT, and that that's not acceptable in society, and that's not acceptable in our home...and I would take him somewhere like into his bedroom and I would tell him I'm gonna give him fifteen licks, ..."
"With what?"
"With probably a belt, with a kid that big, a boy...I'd probably use, a belt would be handy...I might use a wooden spoon, or um, a piece of um, uh like plumbing supply line a quarter inch in diameter, flexible enough to roll up."
That should be admissible in court. Beat them in their bedrooms because violence is not acceptable in your home? Fuck you.

@Lawdeedaw: [citation needed]

I would like to note about your comment on laziness. If all a parent does is spank, your damn right he/she is lazy. But for fathers like me there is at least a five minute discussion "if" I spank. What you are talking about is only teaching through one means---and that is destructive yes. Like a teacher who only teaches from books with an uncaring attitude.

I think you took the worst and made it the example. I do understand your point, but yelling is far worse than spanking when that's the only manner you use. So is, as I have said, sitting your children in front of a TV for an hour. Or giving them a really bad diet...or no discipline at all... Or coddling...



>> ^chtierna:

I don't know... this bothers me. The amount of people, even here it seems, who seem to think that spanking is the best thing since sliced bread bothers me. It's like with religious moderates that give cover for religious extremists with their weak arguments. If you have a whole society that basically agrees that spanking is okay, what do you think will happen?
If you have to resort to spanking I think you've basically failed right there. I had a step daughter for 3 years and never spanked her once, I don't go around spanking my friends or my boss when they behave badly, so I guess the argument is that children can only learn certain things through pain. I don't agree with that. It's easy (lazy) I guess, spank the child and the problem goes away.
I was spanked as a child also and it's definitely made me an angrier individual, not something I'm proud about.