fat, white souther good ole boy shoots two black guys over an unarmed robbery... yeah, I'm sure we're gonna see justice on this one.

yeah this guy sounded like a total idiot. i hope he gets jail

"I can't take a chance on getting killed over this."

Sooo, heard this on local news last week, you gotta understand, all you anti-gun folks with yer heads up yer asses....The media loves to jump on these idgits, and assholes like the deranged fucker with the AK in Omaha, to use it to scream "guns kill, abolish concealed carry, put guns on ban lists"..yadda yadda.....

Have you not figured out the program yet??? Firstly, NOBODY WITH A CONCEALED CARRY HAS EVER COMMITTED A HEINOUS ACT LIKE LUBY'S, LIKE VIRGINIA TECH, LIKE OMAHA....on the fucking contrary, had there been a "YAHOO" at any of those events, the death toll would have been smaller-

Pasedena, mind you, does have some rednecks, and some idiots as well....the dumbass who fired at fleeing burglars, did so, killed them, and dropped them OFF, his own property, so YEAH, we probably will see this guy get busted, cause Texas law says you have to drop them on your own property, and they have to be in your home perpetrating, if they don't lay there bloody with a weapon in their hand, on yer stoop.

I say stupid fuckers so virulently, because the tone set by sometimes, pisses me off worse than the gun laws in Illinois. hey folks, we have guns in America for a good reason. Today, more than ever, wouldn't you folks in L.A. like to be able to legally kill a gang-banger during a home invasion, with whatever you wanted?? They have guns, and more asshole dick heads have them illegally than folks with concealed carry licenses...
EXAMPLE:
The flowers in guns pricks in San Fran Freaksco, screamed so loud after John Luigi Ferri, a man with mental problems, walked into an office building, and killed 8 and wounded 6...that Lawyers for the families of the deceased sued both the gun makers and the store where the guns were purchased. They charge that the sellers of the gun acted irresponsibly because they should have known the weapon they sold to Ferri was inappropriate for legal use.(I call grieving folks who try to place blame on innocents, because they can't handle grieving healthily,..ASSHATS!!

Anyone with a sense of where they are in time and space, should be able to guess why the media jumps on shit like this.....because the controllers of the meatbots, would love for the US to be like Britain...immasculate3d, and vulnerable, with goddamn cameras and informers everywhere.....Anyone ever red the history of a dictatorship..(pick one)

I say, eliminate the banned guns....(really want a street-sweeper that does not cost an arm and a leg....) and ban stupid fucking people instead, like those who push for laws, knee-jerk styley....like the assshat running for congress who was protesting the war cause of her wittle boy...SHEEHAN

\
"Californian", and "activist", should say it all.......another grieving flake, whose self-righteous grandstanding, acts a diversion to the real......

Goddamn!! That was a fuckin' novella, choggie!!!

talking to yourself again I see...

are you an only child by any chance???

That's strange...I didn't hear the 911 operator say the Pigs were on their way. Ah...another Krispy Kreme moment?

While I agree with the statement that property isn't worth dying over, if you let this shit happen, it will continue to happen. If someone had been home in that house, there's a chance they'd be dead now.

It's incredibly unfortunate that you cannot trust neither criminals nor the Pigs with your life anymore.

Choggie speaks for a generation. Good for him, good for us.

tbh the arguments in favour of a gun is a bit thin. their job is to kill people. end of.

use them for the very (very) thin legitimate uses (not saying polar expeditions with a knife would be doable) but outside that, its pretty pointless.

i mean self defence ? from what ? i've never needed a gun here, cos the people who break into your house dont have em either.

American History X, anyone?

Today's lesson, kiddies, is to not rob houses during the day. Please only do so quietly at night.

isn't there a more civilized way to discipline someone for stealing your/your neighbors tv?

I'm actually rooting for the guy. Piss on burglars.

Oh, yeah. ...and those guys were both illegal immigrants.

He won't even be indicted. C'mon, people. This is Texas we're talking about.

There are more civilized ways to discipline someone who is stealing property, but few of them send as clear a message to other would-be criminals.

That said - everyone who commits a crime is a human being who has made some poor choices. Choices which are the result of a life lived such that the outcome seemed logical to them. This does not excuse the behavior, but it should provide a degree of perspective.

Furthermore, many criminals are undeterred by such risks as "X criminals were fatally shot by armed citizens", as by the time home invasion becomes a serious consideration for a person, critical-thinking skills have often long ago left the building.

In case this post makes you wonder where I stand on the issue, I'll just say this and let you work it out yourself: I'm glad I live in Texas.

id rather not have the people who were going to rob you anyway decide they need to bring a gun in with them.

Why didn't this guy live next door to Sean Taylor.

Roddy -
Before railing on the police, did they play the entire 911 call? I'd say that any SANE person could safely assume that a car would be dispatched when they are calling 911 to report a live robbery. If you disagree, please offer us CONCRETE and ACTUAL examples that would lead us to believe that out of the millions upon millions of 911 calls that are made that a significant % of them would end up being ignored. Do the math and figure out how many examples you would need to even get a 1% failure rate out of a million....

This guy was itching to kill them. Notice how long the warning was that he gave? Maybe 2 seconds before he started a shootin'. If they heard the warning and ran, did he not prove his point and scare them into never coming around there again - without having to fire a shot? Nope, he was out to kill, and got his wish.

Notice how he also used a SHOTGUN to "protect" his neighbor's property. I think the only other weapon he could have employed to do more damage would have been grenades, or a mounted .50 cal machine gun.

I hope he gets what's coming to him and gets the death penalty. This IS Texas , and they do execute a ton of folks yearly for shooting people in cold blood. O, but wait, these guys were black and the shooter white. Guess probation will have to do....

In response to Choggie. I am from Britain and I agree all the cameras and informers is crap. But let's back up a bit, to associate not having a gun with being emasculated (remove manhood) is to say that the bigger your gun, the greater your manhood. And that is just plain weird.

"tbh the arguments in favour of a gun is a bit thin. their job is to kill people. end of."


Yeah, cause guns are never used for hunting or target practice by millions of responsible citizens. Good call.

choggie, it's pretty ironic that you live in America and call the UK a dictatorship.

Are you guys f**king serious? You think it's OK to end somebody's life over a physical object, owned by the killer, and taken by the victim? ..

There are only two reasons people get killed during a home invasion. Either they confront the invader, with a weapon of some kind, or the invader has nothing to loose since he's already risking his life. (Due to the society and gun-acceptance)

Here in Norway, the police don't carry guns. They have them in the car, locked away, for use if needed. This means that the criminals don't really use guns either.. Of course there are gun-robberies, murders, etc. BUT in the big picture, it's a different world.
The way gun-enthusiasts go off on a tear when we discuss gun-politics, is as if the gun itself was their manhood. The reason guns are constitutionalized in
USA is only because off the founding fathers saw a possibility where the people would have to fight the government. I don't say this doesn't apply today, but not in the same way.. That would only work if both sides had muskets.. But that's not the reality anymore..

Another problem I see is that If you have a gun, the likelihood of a bad guy shooting after you / back at you is a million times greater, than if your hands are up, and you're not coming off as threatening. I can't see how people can't understand that..
And further more, it's only property.. I got my car stolen once, but I didn't want to kill the guy, nor have anybody else kill him!

Gah.. Guns kill people.. People kill people.. There shouldn't be a "not" in there.

Is it the importance to protect yourself, or is it just really fun to play with? What if your three-year old plays with it.. Will it be just as fun?

-seltar

"Are you guys f**king serious? You think it's OK to end somebody's life over a physical object, owned by the killer, and taken by the victim?"

Yup. Piss on 'em.

The "killer" would be me sitting in my house minding my own business.

The "victim" would be two reprobates violating the sanctity of my household.

If you've never been burglarized, I don't think you can understand the scar it leaves on you. It's partly about the stuff, true, but it's much more than that.

It's a very real psychological violation that never really heals.

I've been burglarized and it didn't leave a big enough scar to kill people over. Maybe if my material objects were my life it'd be different.

rougy is right - there's also a psychological component that comes from realizing that someone was *in your house* with malicious intent - your sanctuary, a place you've come to accept as your own inviolable space. For many people, it's a rather unpleasant realization that many of the constructs we've erected in our society are very vulnerable to those who simply choose to disregard them.

That doesn't make it okay to kill them, in my book at least.

"tbh the arguments in favour of a gun is a bit thin. their job is to kill people. end of."


"Yeah, cause guns are never used for hunting or target practice by millions of responsible citizens. Good call."

hunting and target practice isnt worth the utter sh*t attitudes and society that guns bring with them. If somehow you cant find a problem with american society, prehaps people feeling the need to have a gun is one ?

come on, its 2007, not 1791.

"hunting and target practice isnt worth the utter sh*t attitudes and society that guns bring with them."
Our society is, by and large, just fine as it is. The vast (VAST) majority of firearms are never used in a violent act, and the vast majority of firearm owners are perfectly reasonable people. Alcohol makes a mess out of more situations than guns do - and kills more people, to boot.

if people want to drink themselfs to death, that's a problem (for them and the rest of us eventually), but it's not one where your forced to defend yourself with lethal force.

"Here in Norway, the police don't carry guns."

It's nice that that ideal exists, but you also have to accept that the world is a diverse place. Most countries do not have the necessary soft hearted populace to rely on such trusting rules.

"if people want to drink themselfs to death, that's a problem (for them..."

You mean to tell me that you've never heard of someone dying in a car crash because someone got drunk and hit them?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to ask for a moment of silence in honor of the the strawman that Choggie so viciously murdered with his rhetorical shotgun.

Texas: The "Let's Shoot Us Some N*****rs!" state.

They won't try this guy; they'll probably name a damn city after him.

"I've been burglarized and it didn't leave a big enough scar to kill people over. Maybe if my material objects were my life it'd be different."

Do you live in America or Sweden?

There are some parts of the cities here in America where you would be shot just for walking down the street and minding your own busines, if you were the wrong color (forget about actually trying to burglarize one of the homes).

I hate what happened, and I think that our American culture and society is partly to blame for what happened.

But burglars...I have no pity for them. They wouldn't have any pity for you or for me, and that's a pretty good bet.

#1, I can't believe this dude killed two people over some stuff. No one is arguing the burglars shouldn't be punished, but that's why we have laws, police, and due process. Do the police screw up sometimes? Ya, but at least they are held (somewhat) accountable. Vigilantes are the last thing we need.

#2 for all the gun toting people who think the SOLUTION to Virgina Tech, Columbine etc is to add MORE guns to the mix, I'm really trying hard to understand you... Let's think about it, a random shooting opens up, people scramble, they're scared, nervous, and shocked... Do you think they're going to react by pulling out their "piece" and nailing the assailant(s) with one clean shot? Come on! And what happens when inevitably someone trying to "do good" accidentally shoots another civilian? "oops?, sorry, my bad, I was trying to get the bad guy..."?

The solution is LESS guns, NOT more.

You wanna hunt? fine... get a license, get dressed up in your orange outfit and hunt... with a hunting rifle. You want to go to a shooting range, fine. That doesn't mean you need to be carrying a gun with you all the time (honey, stop the car, there's a deer!), you certainly do not need it concealed, and certainly do not need a handgun/shotgun/automatic-death-cannon.

The second amendment was written in a time of muskets where the US had no full-time army and the populous would be relied up to defend against/overthrow the government. Well... a lot of good all those guns have done preventing the government from stripping the US citizens of their rights. At this rate, the right to bear arms will soon be the only right remaining.

Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48. I don't think they were black.

No, they weren't.

Not everything that happens in the world needs to exemplify a political dichotomy. For instance, Choggie, nothing in your post remotely relates to what occurs in the 911 call, except for the presence of guns.

This guy was bloodthirsty and was rationalizing his desire to shoot people as "protecting himself". He is obviously in no personal danger and I hope he gets jail time.

And, for the record, I am someone who is perfectly fine with the idea of folks keeping guns to protect their homes. It's just that this guy was perfectly safe in his home which was not being threatened, and he used his gun outdoors in public to shoot a man in the back. Fuck that.

By the way, I'd like to reiterate that: he shot the guys OUTDOORS. WITH A SHOTGUN. DURING DAYTIME. IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.

If some stray buckshot had hit a neighborhood child I have a feeling some people here might be singing a different tune.

For what it's worth, I'm not defending this guy's actions. I am curious if anyone's gotten a response from the neighbor whose front yard turned into a crime scene.

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again sometime: unpleasant things happen in a society with sufficient freedoms, because there will always be people who cannot behave themselves when given sufficient freedom. However, just because there are a minority population of morons who decide to use guns, alcohol, vehicles, and other freedoms inappropriately does not mean we should all be penalized for their lack of sense, or even their malicious intent. Things like Columbine, 9/11, Oklahoma City - these things happen in a free society. They are more than simply unfortunate, and there are things we can do within our current bounds to minimize their chance of occurring, but they will happen and we should not allow ourselves to act irrationally in response.

Break the law, eat buck shot. Fine with me.
I dont care what race these two miscreants were, they were robbing someones house in Texas. Not very bright...

What's up Doc? What's cooking? What's up Doc? Doc's looking. For bugs bunny bunting, Doc's gone a hunting. To get himself a piece of rabbit pie.

Did you ken Johnny Peel? We need to kill. Hush now, Blood engenders blood. The thrill of the kill. There's no addendum, no chosen ones, no repenting. No more tic or toc. WE NEED TO KILL.

""if people want to drink themselfs to death, that's a problem (for them..."

You mean to tell me that you've never heard of someone dying in a car crash because someone got drunk and hit them?"

what has that got to do with guns ? - thats just someone being an ill educated moron, which, for what it's worth, is anouther problem coming to society at large.

seems silly to try and come up with reasons to own a gun. maybe people dont all act like idiots with them, and maybe you need them because other people have them, but wtf ?? why not just not have the damn things in the first place ? freedom isnt about having the ability to kill someone for taking some stupid object from you, if you sorted your culture out you wouldn't need them

" Maybe if my material objects were my life it'd be different. "

Yeah, it sure would. One doesn't know that upfront when you're home is being invaded. When you hear someone coming in your house and you're out in the country alone with your children late at night, I want to have more than harsh rhetoric to protect us.

I'll be more than happy to get rid of my guns when I know there aren't any folks willing to come into my house with some of their own.

We have strict gun laws, no automatics, and you need special permits to own even a hunting rifle or shotgun. Our police officers arent even armed. We also have much less murders than in the US. So Choggie, sorry, you are just wrong, More guns, means more shooting, more dead people. This nonsensical idea that every other person on that mall should have carried, and there could have been 2 instead of 9 dead is just outright silly. Get yourself some stricter gun-laws. Nobody, NOBODY needs a fuckin AK or an M16 for anything else than becoming a fucking killing machine. Sure range-shooting is great fun and all, and tbh, I'd love to have one of those myself to play with, but I'll give up that right if I can be a little more confident that all the worlds idiots and maniacs dont have easy access to one. It takes a little time and effort to get yourself guns and ammo here, and that means less guns around overall, and less chance of impulse crime.

Jeez. What a mess this case is. Illegals shot in the back on neighbor's property.

Times change, and ending a criminals life is no longer an acceptable act unless in perceived self-defense. In my opinion, he should have fired at the ground.

(if it were 1890 and this old man lived in Arkansas, he'd likely be hung for murdering these men; a nice run-down of early self-defense Supreme Court cases here; http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/Self-Defense-Cases.htm )

Maybe this guy had a bit of redneck in him. Maybe at that moment his life wasn't in real danger...

But the next minute or next day or next month it could have been. We are talking criminals here. Since when do they deserve any rights at all? They're human? No. They're animals. When they turn their backs on the law the law should turn its back on them.

I'm not celebrating what this man did. He seems to be pretty shaken up about it too, but I am so damn tired of criminals having more rights than the rest of us.

Should he have let them walk? No, you say. Why couldn't he just hold the gun on them?
Cause thats in the movies pal. You aim a gun, you prepare to use it else you put yourself in a very dangerous position.

Now I hear the illegals' wives want to sue. I wonder though if we were to walk in their house and take a look at the tv or the jewelry how much of it was hard earned.

These are vermin. Sad life were lost, but better those than that of an innocent person.

Anyone who gets thrilled by this or celebrates the shooting or the punishment of this man is an idiot. Its just a sad situation.

Oh and for the one who said "he chose the messiest and most deadly weapon he could have" ...don't be a fool. Shotguns are just the most common hunting tool and quick. Rather he peg em with a 22 until they stopped moving?

"But the next minute or next day or next month it could have been. We are talking criminals here. Since when do they deserve any rights at all? They're human? No. They're animals. When they turn their backs on the law the law should turn its back on them."

woah, now. They stole a bag of valuables and would have made the robbery-victims feel less safe in their own home... its not like they kidnapped a child, or murdered an elderly couple, or stole thousands of people's pensions ENRON-style.

I got a speeding ticket a few months back; should the cop have just pulled me over, told me to dig my own grave and offed me right there? or would other drivers have been in the right to aim a gun out their car window as I passed them and tried to shoot out my tires if I were speeding?

To address a couple of points that have been mentioned:
"Get yourself some stricter gun-laws. Nobody, NOBODY needs a fuckin AK or an M16 for anything else than becoming a fucking killing machine."
First, fully-automatic (select-fire) weapons are restricted for purchase to individuals under fairly strenuous requirements, including permission from local law enforcement. (This is termed a "Class 3 Transfer", and obtaining the signature from local law enforcement is understandably difficult.) That said, many automatic weapons are obtained illegally. Second, fully-automatic weapons (and Assault Rifles), while potentially menacing, are NOT a significant contributor to gun crime. I may be misinformed, but the data I looked at placed their involvement in less than 1% of all gun crimes. Handguns are the firearm of choice in the vast majority of gun crimes.

"We are talking criminals here. Since when do they deserve any rights at all? They're human? No. They're animals. When they turn their backs on the law the law should turn its back on them."
There is no such thing as an "evil person." I stand by this assertion. There are people whose perspectives are warped to the point that incarceration is the only means to prevent inevitable harm to society at large, but no one should be denied due process unless doing so would infringe upon another person's inalienable rights. The justice system (and the term means something - it means to "make just" or to "make equal" a situation that has become imbalanced with respect to a person's rights) serves both to attempt to restore balance to inequity in so much as it can, and also to levy punishments sufficient in severity to discourage future crimes from the perpetrator and those who would consider similar actions. For the law to turn its back on "criminals" is to render it useless and return us to an anarchic state.

Society, and by extension, government, exists as a framework for its citizens to submit to the sacrifice of certain freedoms in order to assure that the rest of the citizens are similarly denied those freedoms. We voluntarily submit to be protected from ourselves, to the degree we deem acceptable in exchange for the security that provides. I do not feel the security provided by the criminalization of firearms is worth giving up my own ability to own one. This is a weighted judgment. Similarly, I *do* feel that the security provided by the criminalization of driving while intoxicated justifies my personal loss of the freedom to drive in any dang state I deem reasonable.

By that token, I am perfectly willing to give up my freedom to kill anyone who I deem worthy of the act to ensure that the government will do what it can to prevent others from exercising that freedom against me, but I have no reservations allowing my fellow citizens (and therefore myself) the freedom to kill intruders in their own homes.

Presumably, the burglars felt they had to steal to pay for food, shelter, or drugs. Maybe they were mentally ill. Maybe it is the duty of the state to take care of the mentally ill, educate all, and produce conditions in which its people don't think they need to prey on each other to survive. But after a million years of guaranteeing survival and reproductive rights to everyone, what will become of humanity through evolution? Multiplication of severe genetic disorders? Balkanization into different species upon socioeconomic boundaries? If the intervenor had a long-range nonlethal weapon capable of reliably and immediately disabling the burglars until cops arrive, that would have been a better choice ("set phasers on stun!"). Such weapons do not yet exist. Tasers are torturous, short-range, and short-duration. Tranq darts are too slow, unless you shoot them out the window and hide until the darts take effect. He could have shot low to prevent them from walking away without killing them. I'm ambivalent about whether he should have done nothing. In a perfect world the situation would never arise that someone would feel they had to become a burglar to survive. I doubt that anything more than a small percentage of burglaries are thought of by the perpetrators as other than a matter of survival. Living meagerly is preferable to risking your life for luxury; in the mind of some homeless people burglary may be the alternative to certain death.

wtf indeed

I live in the same city as this guy. An amusing part of the story is that this guy Quanell X a member of the black panthers in Houston, Texas turned it into some racial controversy. He organized a protest at Joe Horn's house, and he was met by neighbourhood people protesting the protest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanell_X#Joe_Horn_Protest

Personally, while I feel Joe Horn used excessive force, I don't have any sympathy for burglars getting shot while they're robbing someone's home. Those are the risks you take when you rob houses. I also think Quanell X can find some better black guys to help out and protest for. What does he want? All black people to be able to rob people in safety?

hey,
if I saw somebody robbing something through the scope of my sniper rifle, would it be okay for me to have a pop at them?

*dead

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by jonny.

easy come easy go

*dead

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by eric3579.

rasch187 has fixed this video's dead embed code - no Power Points awarded because rasch187's points are already fully charged.