*promote Because I have wanted to hear something like this for a long long LONG time.

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, January 26th, 2016 2:52pm PST - promote requested by original submitter bareboards2.

i watched this earlier today and rumsfeld almost..aaalmost..admitted iraq was a mistake.

I can pick one quote: "If it were a fact it wouldn't be called intelligence." Wow is right Mr. Colbert *quality interview

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by PlayhousePals.

"The conflict between the Shiite and Sunni is something that people had generally not anticipated."...that is except for any person who looked into the history of the region. I recall many people warning against exactly this before we went in.

I found Colbert's question about "unknown knowns" the most interesting, but here's the thing:

Bush was the Commander in Chief. He didn't present their "intelligence evidence" of Iraq's WMDs to the American people because he *had* to. He tells the military what to do, they do it; the people don't get "veto rights". The only reason he presented it to the American people (I still remember watching Colin Powell show satellite photos etc.) was to shore up votes for his re-election. Which is exactly what any politician would do in that situation -- make a decision, and present that decision in the best possible light to the voters.

In other words, when Bush et al. were presenting that stuff to us, they weren't selling the actual invasion itself to us. They were selling us an image of their own legitimacy and competence. Viewed like that, of course they aren't going to inform us of those "unknown knowns"; it would shatter the image of them confidently and capably doing what they knew they had to do -- which was the actual point of it (selling that image to us, I mean).


I was sold, at the time. As were most (but not all) Americans, including many many people much older and wiser than I was (and am). I now agree that the invasion was a colossal mistake and that Bush's presidency in general was rather disastrous. BUT, that being said, I think it is problematic to hold these kinds of decisions against a president beyond a certain point.

FDR decided to drop two atom bombs on Japan rather than continuing with conventional warfare and risking many more American (and Japanese) lives with an invasion. Many people have questioned (and continue to question) that decision. But FDR was there. He was the Commander in Chief, he had some facts and plenty of unverifiable information and suggestions from his cabinet and intelligence sources of the time, and he made the decision.

I don't envy people in power who have to make weighty decisions like that based on incomplete information, only to have people question those decisions by citing information that they didn't have at the time. For the rest of their lives.

"They'd used chemical weapons on their own people, the Kurds..." -Rumsfeld

Yes! Chemical weapons YOU were key in helping them obtain, back when you were best buddies with Saddam. You didn't bat an eye then, you even offered them more helicopters so they could spread it faster! Now if that's a reason to go to war, fine, but start by shooting yourself in the head.

*politics *military

Adding video to channels (Military, Politics) - requested by ant.

What I find interesting from this interview is that the logic he applies to ISIS applies equally to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Why did the U.S. invade Iraq?

Because it could.

Honestly, who could have stopped it? The U.S. has a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council meaning that the U.N. was powerless to stop them even if it had tried. Neither Russia nor China, the only two other countries in the world that might militarily give the U.S. pause, gave a strategic fuck about Saddam Hussein.

It didn't matter that there was no hard evidence. They did it because they thought they'd get away with it--and frankly I think they did get away with it. The people most responsible for the war are all free, not facing any charges, and making more money in their twilight years than the rest of us will make combined over the course of our entire lives. The worst they have to contend with is snarky late-night hosts.

EDIT: Meanwhile, U.S. college students are too busy protesting white girls dressing up as Pocahontas for Halloween and other "micro-aggressions" to get angry about any of this. Truly America is fucked.

None of this matters if that guy can still walk off the stage alive.

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

You might be interested in the movie, The Fog of War. I think that's the title. It's about the morality of making these types of decisions.

Not to mention that the US was also responsible for 10,000 more dead Kurds, who they promised help against Saddam. But that help never came.

FDR didnt decide that. Truman did. Truman was a weakling. He was like a teenage bully who suddenly got unbelievable power. Even Churchill noticed how much he changed and how he always attacked and tried to provoke Stalin.
And that decision wasnt made because of fear of more lost lives. it was made because after Germany was defeated Russia very quickly advanced towards Japan. Truman didnt want want Russia to get a say in Japan at all costs. Yet they knew Japan was willing to surrender, with only one condition: The emperor would not be touched. The Americans didnt even want to accept that single condition. But the funny thing is, they did after the war. The emperor was not touched. But Truman, in his world, was pretty smart. He not only stopped any possibility of the Russians being able to get a part of Japan, he also showed Stalin what a powerful nation the USA has become, and that it should be feared. In reality, it was 2 atom bombs for NOTHING. Those 2 bombs were a huge factor in the start of the cold war, but ultimately it was Truman and the people behind him, who started that war. He always saw an enemy in Russia. He did everything to ensure they would think the USA is their enemy. Yet memos of Stalin and other documents showed clearly that Stalin never wanted a confrontation with the USA and even after the cold war started, he never took an attack on them into consideration.
Its just another chapter in the aggression and chaos the USA spreads on this planet.

@coolhund -- Yes, Truman, not FDR. Brain fart, wrote the wrong name -- thanks for correcting.

I can't even watch this. I feel like I perhaps have the stomach to watch Salo with my grandmother, but I lack the stomach to watch this interview alone.

This world will be a better place when this piece of shit human finally kicks the bucket.

The "unknown known" was an excellent concept. It is amazing that Rumsfeld still is so dodgy this late in the game. It was the worst run of the executive branch in a long time and none of them can say, "Yeah what a f*ck up".