Are these guys retarded or what?

These are not human beings in anything but the broadest and least meaningful sense. Their consciousness will never rise above the animal; few enough normal births achieve that. Treating retards like real people is nothing but sentimentality and self-delusion; and in an over-populated, impoverished world, it's harmful and criminal.

.....way to take sarcasm and run with it.

>> ^charliem:

.....way to take sarcasm and run with it.

My comment, not a reaction to your comment. What are you, retarded or something?

*promote

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 6:25pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter pumkinandstorm.

Taken at face value, you sound like a pretty awful person.

Care to elaborate? Forgot sarcasm checkbox?>> ^gorillaman:

These are not human beings in anything but the broadest and least meaningful sense. Their consciousness will never rise above the animal; few enough normal births achieve that. Treating retards like real people is nothing but sentimentality and self-delusion; and in an over-populated, impoverished world, it's harmful and criminal.

The first dude does an amazing Pacino impression!

Retard jokes are my rape jokes (go for it though, doesn't really bother me, just not that funny). My aunt has DS. She is high functioning like the folks in this video, holds a job, helps around the house, etc. For that we're blessed. However, I'd argue that this video doesn't do the best job of showing the full spectrum of downs. Everyone in this video is very high functioning, and it isn't always like that. I've met some DS people that really need help to do even the most basic tasks. Often, it's nearly impossible to get much more than a word or two out of them, and they can be extremely irritable. The high functioning folks can manage their lives, but it would be a mistake to assume they are all as capable as these folks.

Eugenics, people. Get 'em before they hatch.

>> ^KnivesOut:

Taken at face value, you sound like a pretty awful person.
Care to elaborate? Forgot sarcasm checkbox?

Humanity is intellect.

This is a video of essentially stillborn babies leading sham-lives with the help of delusional puppeteers, at a real cost to society.

This is the voice of compassion. We're ill-enough-equipped to deal with the existing problems of living, intellectually active humans without supporting the anthropomorphizational fantasies of grieving parents.

As gwiz will be pleased to hear, ~90% of downs foetuses are aborted in civilised countries. We need to improve that towards 100%, while implementing other controls on low-value births. Eugenics is not the enemy; it's a necessary step in the advancement of our species. This ad, emotionally satisfying as it may be, pulls us in exactly the wrong direction.

@gorillaman except many of these folks are high functioning, can lead productive lives, and in some ways be more productive than "normal" folks who are just plain lazy or stupid. Who are you to judge whether a person's life is worth living?

If you can't simply rely on the extra chromosome to decide which ones to abort, then what other criteria can we apply?

What government agency will oversee the testing, and ensure that executions are carried out? Maybe instead of aborting the defectives, we give them until they're 18 to prove their worth to society, and then the rejects get chucked into gas chambers, or drafted into the military.

What I'm saying is, we have no choice but to treat them with dignity, assist them as needed, and carry on with our own pursuit of happiness.

Well, I think we should weed out things like Down's Syndrome before birth, but once they are here, we must take care of them. We should have some common decency towards otherwise helpless, or lower functioning people, like the sick, disabled, retarded, jobless, poor etc. but try to avoid making new ones.

>> ^gorillaman:

>> ^KnivesOut:
Taken at face value, you sound like a pretty awful person.
Care to elaborate? Forgot sarcasm checkbox?
Humanity is intellect.
This is a video of essentially stillborn babies leading sham-lives with the help of delusional puppeteers, at a real cost to society.
This is the voice of compassion. We're ill-enough-equipped to deal with the existing problems of living, intellectually active humans without supporting the anthropomorphizational fantasies of grieving parents.
As gwiz will be pleased to hear, ~90% of downs foetuses are aborted in civilised countries. We need to improve that towards 100%, while implementing other controls on low-value births. Eugenics is not the enemy; it's a necessary step in the advancement of our species. This ad, emotionally satisfying as it may be, pulls us in exactly the wrong direction.

@KnivesOut

A very few of these folks are high-functioning, which leaves them after much assistance just barely able to support themselves doing worthless keep-the-meat-breathing jobs in a society where 'productivity' typically implies stealing prosperity from the future. Even rare high-functioning downs are subhuman.

We all know very well that to "simply rely on the extra chromosome to decide which ones to abort" is unambiguously successful at improving the genetic and intellectual stock of our species. Even basic interventions like these are completely effective, perfect goods for the world. To kill a downs baby is a mitzvah.

When we can agree on that, everything else is logistics.

@gwiz665

It's easy to confuse mental retardation with disability, but the two are utterly distinct. Human beings in disadvantaged circumstances like the "sick, disabled, ... jobless, poor etc" require assistance not as a matter of 'common decency' but simply the rational understanding that where we could all find ourselves in need, it's necessary to provide a safety net; game theory rather than compassion provides the answer to that question. Retards on the other hand are literally and must be treated as any other wounded animal - either ignored or put out of its misery.

@gorillaman we all don't know that. You think that, probably because you've been reading too much Ayn Rand.

Being a civilized society means we can rise above the pack mentality of feeding on the weak, the sick, and the old. We don't NEED to push these people to the edge of the herd to survive, anymore.

@KnivesOut

You couldn't be more wrong. We are poor and overpopulated, and we desperately need to correct that. Now is not the time to be keeping luxuries like pet underpeople.

>> ^gorillaman:

@KnivesOut
You couldn't be more wrong. We are poor and overpopulated, and we desperately need to correct that. Now is not the time to be keeping luxuries like pet underpeople.


I say we kill all the old people first. Anyone with dementia, or forget it, let's just save on social security. Once you can't work, you can fertilize the fields. I mean, really, old people, or human primate hybrids (man-gorillas if you will) they're all subhuman.

Like you said, wounded animals... the lot of them. I mean hell, if I couldn't get it up anymore, it would be common decency for you to put me out of my misery.

Then we should move on to the puppies. I mean, they're subhuman too right?

Not sure if Gorilla is trolling or retarded.

This seems apt.

"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."
-Martin Niemuhler

>> ^bmacs27:
I say we kill all the old people first. Anyone with dementia, or forget it, let's just save on social security. Once you can't work, you can fertilize the fields. I mean, really, old people, or human primate hybrids (man-gorillas if you will) they're all subhuman.
Like you said, wounded animals... the lot of them. I mean hell, if I couldn't get it up anymore, it would be common decency for you to put me out of my misery.
Then we should move on to the puppies. I mean, they're subhuman too right?


Yes, anyone with (advanced) dementia and yes, puppies. Pet ownership is a cause of colossal environmental damage and human poverty.

This all seems obvious to me; is recognising the unique quality of intelligence as being essential to our conception of personhood really such an obscure revelation?

Any creature without human intelligence is literally not a human being.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

What about people up the autism scale - unable to experience empathy? If so - it's the end of Gorillaman.>> ^gorillaman:

>> ^bmacs27:
I say we kill all the old people first. Anyone with dementia, or forget it, let's just save on social security. Once you can't work, you can fertilize the fields. I mean, really, old people, or human primate hybrids (man-gorillas if you will) they're all subhuman.
Like you said, wounded animals... the lot of them. I mean hell, if I couldn't get it up anymore, it would be common decency for you to put me out of my misery.
Then we should move on to the puppies. I mean, they're subhuman too right?

Yes, anyone with (advanced) dementia and yes, puppies. Pet ownership is a cause of colossal environmental damage and human poverty.
This all seems obvious to me; is recognising the unique quality of intelligence as being essential to our conception of personhood really such an obscure revelation?
Any creature without human intelligence is literally not a human being.

>> ^dag:

What about people up the autism scale - unable to experience empathy? If so - it's the end of Gorillaman.
I believe we have a responsibility to view these issues dispassionately and make rational choices rather than allowing ourselves to be ruled by our primitive emotions.

*doublepromote

Double-Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 10:27am PDT - doublepromote requested by UsesProzac.

Wow, @gorillaman once again steps in with insane logic that doesn't have bearing on the real world.

I am very intrigued as to what his day to day life entails.

As for his assertions that the world is currently overpopulated and poor. That's bullshit. There's MORE than enough food and money for everyone ON THIS PLANET to live comfortably. The problem is with horrendously in-equal distribution of that food and money.

Really gorillaman, I am very intrigued as to how you function day to day in a society considering your comments here, and your past comments on how you think children should be raised. I've never seen you say anything that really belongs in a civil society.

Pumkin, it pleases me deeply that you promoted this vid even though the first comment was so down right ugly.

You are a class act.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I believe sentience is a gray scale that extends well into the animal kingdom.

You can judge the character of a person by how they treat those that are weaker and less capable.

LOL....look like someone needs some attention!

"Hey everyone....look at me..I'm gonna say something!!"

LOL!!

Seriously dude...take your shit and leave.

Nobody wants you here.

Just go....

>> ^gorillaman:

These are not human beings in anything but the broadest and least meaningful sense. Their consciousness will never rise above the animal; few enough normal births achieve that. Treating retards like real people is nothing but sentimentality and self-delusion; and in an over-populated, impoverished world, it's harmful and criminal.

>> ^dag:

I believe sentience is a gray scale that extends well into the animal kingdom.
You can judge the character of a person by how they treat those that are weaker and less capable.


I think there's an argument to be made for one or more 'sentience thresholds' where the sum of an advanced intellect's understanding of the world, sense of itself, and capacity for abstract thought places it in a very different sphere of mentality to even slightly less able minds.

It's obvious that there's a distinction between non-thinking objects and any thinking creature at all, which would be the first threshold; I claim that humanity, or perhaps only the best of humanity, has cracked another.

It's a fact that compared to humans, animal brains are disproportionately devoted to sensory processing, etc. rather than cognition; which places us orders of magnitude ahead of them in our particular province, even with brains of apparently similar complexity. So there's a real gap there, rather than a smooth progression.

We have animal brains with a little extra cognitive grey matter stapled on top. That little bit seems to make all the difference. It's exciting to think where we'll be when we're able to create a lot more cognition, either biologically or electronically.

Now all of this may not have direct implications for damaged human brains, but it informs our understanding of intelligence generally.

I feel that the error being made by say, vegetarians who claim that 'an animal has just as much right to exist as a person', and similarly sincere but misguided retard-guardians is that they fail to account for these extremely important distinctions.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Do you claim that there is a quantitative value of sentience? Are 100 chickens worth the life of a single human? Your rational argument breaks down into absurdity when followed to its ends. Better to err on the side of compassion and kindness towards living creatures where possible.
>> ^gorillaman:

>> ^dag:
I believe sentience is a gray scale that extends well into the animal kingdom.
You can judge the character of a person by how they treat those that are weaker and less capable.

I think there's an argument to be made for one or more 'sentience thresholds' where the sum of an advanced intellect's understanding of the world, sense of itself, and capacity for abstract thought places it in a very different sphere of mentality to even slightly less able minds.
It's obvious that there's a distinction between non-thinking objects and any thinking creature at all, which would be the first threshold; I claim that humanity, or perhaps only the best of humanity, has cracked another.
It's a fact that compared to humans, animal brains are disproportionately devoted to sensory processing, etc. rather than cognition; which places us orders of magnitude ahead of them in our particular province, even with brains of apparently similar complexity. So there's a real gap there, rather than a smooth progression.
We have animal brains with a little extra cognitive grey matter stapled on top. That little bit seems to make all the difference. It's exciting to think where we'll be when we're able to create a lot more cognition, either biologically or electronically.
Now all of this may not have direct implications for damaged human brains, but it informs our understanding of intelligence generally.
I feel that the error being made by say, vegetarians who claim that 'an animal has just as much right to exist as a person', and similarly sincere but misguided retard-guardians is that they fail to account for these extremely important distinctions.

>> ^dag:

Do you claim that there is a quantitative value of sentience? Are 100 chickens worth the life of a single human? Your rational argument breaks down into absurdity when followed to its ends. Better to err on the side of compassion and kindness towards living creatures where possible.
This is very much your position. In a sentience-spectrum model like your own some number of chickens must equal one human; whereas I claim there's a qualitative difference between chickens and humans, or retards and humans, that makes the comparison meaningless.

106 chinchillas = 1 human .

My mom killed a human for her coat !

on a more serious note, if I can have a conversation with a "retard" that puts them a fair bit higher than an an animal. I do not understand the comparison to less than human based on IQ capacity. I think the cunt is taking the piss with all you who care.

LOL... you're a good troll. Here's a game for you: please precisely define the distinction between sensory processes and cognitive processes, and how exactly DS sufferers lack the latter. Or were you just some armchair bullshitter?

Fair warning, if you really want to have this debate, I'm probably out of your league.

>> ^gorillaman:

>> ^dag:
I believe sentience is a gray scale that extends well into the animal kingdom.
You can judge the character of a person by how they treat those that are weaker and less capable.

I think there's an argument to be made for one or more 'sentience thresholds' where the sum of an advanced intellect's understanding of the world, sense of itself, and capacity for abstract thought places it in a very different sphere of mentality to even slightly less able minds.
It's obvious that there's a distinction between non-thinking objects and any thinking creature at all, which would be the first threshold; I claim that humanity, or perhaps only the best of humanity, has cracked another.
It's a fact that compared to humans, animal brains are disproportionately devoted to sensory processing, etc. rather than cognition; which places us orders of magnitude ahead of them in our particular province, even with brains of apparently similar complexity. So there's a real gap there, rather than a smooth progression.
We have animal brains with a little extra cognitive grey matter stapled on top. That little bit seems to make all the difference. It's exciting to think where we'll be when we're able to create a lot more cognition, either biologically or electronically.
Now all of this may not have direct implications for damaged human brains, but it informs our understanding of intelligence generally.
I feel that the error being made by say, vegetarians who claim that 'an animal has just as much right to exist as a person', and similarly sincere but misguided retard-guardians is that they fail to account for these extremely important distinctions.

>> ^gorillaman:

>> ^KnivesOut:
Taken at face value, you sound like a pretty awful person.
Care to elaborate? Forgot sarcasm checkbox?
Humanity is intellect.^{[Citation Needed]}
This is a video of essentially stillborn babies leading sham-lives with the help of delusional puppeteers, at a real cost to society.^{[Citation Needed]}
This is the voice of compassion. We're ill-enough-equipped to deal with the existing problems of living, intellectually active humans without supporting the anthropomorphizational fantasies of grieving parents. ^{[Citation Needed]}
As gwiz will be pleased to hear, ~90% of downs foetuses are aborted in civilised countries.^{[Citation Needed]} We need to improve that towards 100%, while implementing other controls on low-value births. Eugenics is not the enemy; it's a necessary step in the advancement of our species.^{[Citation Needed]} This ad, emotionally satisfying as it may be, pulls us in exactly the wrong direction.

4 downvotes on a comment that forgot the sarcasm tag Tough crowd.

Oh, you want some too!?!?!? [pulls @charliem into the downvote corner].

*smack*smack*smack*>> ^charliem:

4 downvotes on a comment that forgot the sarcasm tag Tough crowd.