Terrible, but not surprising. This is the reason for the shit-eating law in the first place.

boring, they all had answers to her questions and the tape stops when he explains the process which she sums up as unreasonable.

Her arguments all lead to the answer that you need to prove who you are, and if you can't you can't vote... it seems like people might have trouble with it but there are avenues to seek.

and of course its an extra step (which may keep people from voting - although i know i register to vote and get an ID card sans picture via a website for my county...and i absentee ballot anyway), but thats obvious without the video

she must have a new computer!

Other than the bank activity thing (which seems weird), I don't get what the hubbub is about.

Yeah, nothing untoward going on here:

Gov. Scott Walker's administration is working on finalizing a plan to close as many as 10 offices where people can obtain driver's licenses in order to expand hours elsewhere and come into compliance with new requirements that voters show photo IDs at the polls.

One Democratic lawmaker said Friday it appeared the decisions were based on politics, with the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts.

I'm sorry I couldn't watch the whole thing.

To me it seems like these two people decided to go harass people just trying to do their job and get paid. I can't imagine people "love" working at the DMV (MVC here in Jersey) so why hassle them with all these "why is this that way" questions?

If you don't like the rules go ask your local elected official not the poor people who are just paid to enforce the rules.

Downvote

This was a pain to watch. It was slow and she just seemed like she was trying to create a conspiracy. It costs money because you're paying them for a service. It's not a "tax" to vote.

I'm very glad the video makes the distinction between grunts who are just doing what they're paid to do. Even the direct supervisor was given instructions on how to do this stuff.

corruption starts at the top, and they put those at the bottom in your way to act as a buffer.

This is what makes me glad that I live in Nebraska. We may be a red state, but we don't do fucked up shit like this. I will have to go ask my friend who is an election inspector how a homeless person goes about voting.

The problem with shit like this is not that it's hard to overcome these things. for the vast majority of people, providing these forms of id is not difficult...it's just the fact that they throw up these delaying tactics and hidden gotchas like that "special box" at all.

Voting is supposed to be easy and it's a right short of being in prison or judged mentally incompetent by a court of law

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Tuesday, July 26th, 2011 4:43pm PDT - promote requested by JiggaJonson.

>> ^MarineGunrock:

This was a pain to watch. It was slow and she just seemed like she was trying to create a conspiracy. It costs money because you're paying them for a service. It's not a "tax" to vote.


You do understand that there's a historical allusion being made when she refers to this as a poll tax, don't you?

It's about trying to usurp the political power of a group of people you want to keep powerless by putting up roadblocks to their ability to vote.

It's not really a roadblock, though. It's only sane to think that one should have to prove eligibility to vote in a certain district. Drivers licenses and ID cards come at a price, but where ever this is gives the ID FOR FREE if you need it to vote.

Seems pretty silly to me. You need a mailing address in the district and state in which you're going to vote. So.....if they mail you a one time use card that they collect when you go to vote with enough information to match it up to a state issued form of a identification. What else needs to be done?

If they use your social security number you can't run around and vote all over the place turning in those one use cards from multiple addresses. They either don't mail to multiple addresses for one SSN or they catch you using multiple mailed cards on the same SSN.

Getting a state ID is pretty painless (not a driver's license but just an ID card).

Seems like they are adding cost, hurdles and what not to discourage people from voting. There has always been a healthy group of people who can vote but choose not to vote, whom also never get picked for jury duty (in my area at least). So.......if it works similarly they are also cutting down the people who will be selected as possible jury pool members by discouraging them from voting because they seem to pull it directly off the registered voters lists.

Can't think of a good reason why they would make the process so labor intensive. It's not like DMV/BMVs and what not don't get a shitload of people already going in for various reasons....can't think of a single time I haven't had to wait in line. So if the ID is free, they are adding a lot of unnecessary work versus using records they already have to mail out one-time use cards or some other form to at least verify the guy receives mail at that address.

I hate these kind of self-righteous douchewagons videotaping everything thinking they're being vigilant warriors in defense of democracy. They're just being a stick in the mud to be a dick just for the sake of being a dick. Annoying.

>> ^MarineGunrock:

It's only sane to think that one should have to prove eligibility to vote in a certain district.

Sure, but why does the proof have to be a driver's license or state ID?

Right now in Ohio you can use any photo ID (including things like student ID, or employee ID badges), or alternatively you can use a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or any government document that includes your name and address.

They want to change the law here as well, so that it has to be a driver's license, state ID, passport, or military ID.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
It's not really a roadblock, though. ... Drivers licenses and ID cards come at a price, but where ever this is gives the ID FOR FREE if you need it to vote.


Again, it most certainly is a roadblock. First, you need to know about the change in the law, apparently at least 2 weeks in advance. Second, you need to get the documentation required for a state ID, which may require a trip to the courthouse and more fees. Third you need to find the time to go stand in line during business hours on weekdays, which isn't even easy for someone like me with a flexible work schedule, a car, and no kids. Fourth, you need to fill out all the forms, answer all the questions, and know that the only way to make it free is to check a special box on the application form, because they won't tell that to you.

Oh, and the next bit of news I've heard this evening is that now Wisconsin (which is where this is from, BTW), is now closing down the DMV's in 10 districts, reportedly mostly the ones in heavily Democratic districts. To compensate for the reduction in service, they're lengthening the hours of DMV's in some other, more Republican, districts to make sure Republicans don't have any problems voting deal with the overflow...

For the most part though, my question is what problem is this supposed to solve? In Ohio there have been next to zero cases of even attempted voter fraud, and none successful.

Surely you concede that doing this will result in some people, who are eligible to vote, trying to vote legally, will be prevented from voting. Why is that necessary?

Even if I assume this is being done out of real concern about fraud, this is like arresting everyone in a neighborhood because someone thinks maybe someone in there could have committed a crime, even though they don't have evidence to prove that a crime was even committed in the first place...

@NetRunner - why do I even argue with you?



I think we're actually discussing two different topics right now, though. At first it was the "This is being done to prevent the lower-class from voting" thing and now you've moved it to how much of a pain in the ass it is. Your points make it very clear that this is a pain in the ass, but I still don't think there's any foul play afoot by the ones passing this legislation.

This is why you don't have electronic voting yet. We can do everything else, banking, buying and selling millions, but not voting. Precisely, because then you can't cheat properly.

great video. Answers the question: "Does this shit really happen"
TY.

Some kind of bureaucratic hold-up at the DMV? SHOCKING! Especially since the odds are likely everyone working at the DMV is a taxocrat.

This is what fcking obamacare will be like. Just imagine doing all this with a gaping chest wound.

>> ^Payback:

>> ^MycroftHomlz:
I think they should have tests US history to allow people to vote. Also, only land owners. And you have to be white. If you are black you get 3/5ths vote. That I think would be perfect.

You COMPLETELY have missed out the problem of half-breeds in your scenario. You haven't thought this out far enough. How can you POSSIBLY effectively protect the God-given rights of white people without addressing that?


It's easy, if you like their ugly mug, "who was George Washington?" If not, "how many marbles are in this jar?"

TIL that Wisconsin is its own state...CONGRATS, GUYS!!! and they're making such "big boy" decisions too. Almost like a real state.

Boo-freaking-hoo. Voting is a priveledge - and one that a voter should be willing to put up with a little bit of inconvenience in order to legitimize. If voting required me to go to my voting office, show my birth certificate, show my bank account statement (with address), as well as a valid photo ID in order to get a ONE TIME voting card for every election then I would happily do so because if only voters with those personally approved cards could vote it would solve a ton of problems.

Anyone who gripes about having to show ID to vote is hiding something... And 99.9% of the time they are probably trying to hide the fact that they are voting illegitimately. I have not yet heard a single argument against photo voter ID that is even remotely logical.

"Roadblocks" to voting? Bologna. Oh boo hoo hoo - I have to go to a building and stand in line for a while and have the right documents... I've never HEARD of such horrible 'roadblocks'... Oh - wait - every freaking person in the USA has to jump those hurdles every freaking day they live. The bank. The grocery store. The DMV. The post office. The list goes on and on and on. If folks don't mind presenting IDs to get food stamps, unemployment, social security, medicare, and medicaid then they have NO RIGHT to whine about having to present the same ID to vote.

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. ^That is incredibly ignorant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffrage

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Tuesday, July 26th, 2011 8:38pm PDT - promote requested by MycroftHomlz.

>> ^MycroftHomlz:

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. ^That is incredibly ignorant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffrage


If only I could upvote this (MycroftHomlz) a million times.

Remember, it's only election fraud when conservatives win!


Anyone making a lifestyle out of welfare (over two years on it) should be barred from voting until they're off the dole; any illegals caught voting should be executed as enemy spies and saboteurs.


The voting age needs to be raised to 25 except for members of the military. One hasn't been paycheck-raped by taxes enough at 18 to know what's going on, plus at that age one naturally knows nothing and cannot make informed decisions.

yes, voting is a right. you have a right to vote for either rich fucking asshole #1 who doesn't give a shit about you or rich fucking asshole #2 who doesn't give a shit about you.


voting will mean something when the electoral process isn't a sham

^Even you have to agree that voting is right. @MarineGunrock and many of my friends have laid their life on the line to defend my right to vote. Calling it a privilege is as ignorant as it is offensive. It is one of the most anti-American things I have ever seen on videosift. And the fact that you aren't the first person to call him out on it makes me question your authenticity.

You'd think a tea-party poster child like @quantumushroom would recall the phrase "No taxation without representation".>> ^quantumushroom:

Remember, it's only election fraud when conservatives win!

Anyone making a lifestyle out of welfare (over two years on it) should be barred from voting until they're off the dole; any illegals caught voting should be executed as enemy spies and saboteurs.

The voting age needs to be raised to 25 except for members of the military. One hasn't been paycheck-raped by taxes enough at 18 to know what's going on, plus at that age one naturally knows nothing and cannot make informed decisions.

>> ^MarineGunrock:

@NetRunner - why do I even argue with you?

I think we're actually discussing two different topics right now, though. At first it was the "This is being done to prevent the lower-class from voting" thing and now you've moved it to how much of a pain in the ass it is. Your points make it very clear that this is a pain in the ass, but I still don't think there's any foul play afoot by the ones passing this legislation.


I'm certainly willing to admit that I can't really prove intent.

But...I do think I can prove that this disproportionately affects the young, the poor, minorities, and the extremely elderly. I also think I can prove that those demographic groups tend to vote Democratic.

I think I can also establish that the problem it purports to solve is nearly nonexistent, while the "solution" will result in a substantive number of legal voters being disenfranchised. I even think I can show that the types of voter fraud that have actually been attempted wouldn't be stopped by this new restriction (at least for the Ohio version).

Do you find any of those claims implausible?

You're not getting the message. "Rights" are things the government has no authority to restrict. Such things include life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. However, some 'rights' also come with inherent restrictions in which some people are "priveledged" to participate in the process, and some are not. In order for people to have the priveledge of joining in some of these so-called "rights" they must jump hoops. There is nothing new, unusual, or wrong with that.

Guns. You've got the right to bear arms. But you've still got to get a permit, buy a weapon, present identification, and jump a bunch of other hoops to have the priveledge. Voting is no different. You need to be 18, register, etc... There is nothing odd or restrictive in requiring people to have an ID when they show up to vote any more so than having to present an ID to buy gummint' booze at the State Liquor store.

But when foam-at-the-mouth neolibs start talking about voter ID, they love to cop this self-righteous attitude that voting is a "right" that somehow should have zero limitations. Neolib parleyance is that requiring ID is an infringement on the "right" to vote. No. It isn't. It is a hoop you jump through in order to exercise the PRIVELDEGE of voting. Voting as a right is just a 60,000 foot high concept. Sure universal sufferage is a 'right'. But to have the priveledge of exercising that right you must meet the requirements. Duh. People should not vote just because some jerk in a van promises them a pack of Kools on voting day. Nuh uh.

The only people who should have the priveledge of exercising their voting rights are folks who jump through the proper hoops. IMO that means they have at least 3 months of utility bills with the same address, a valid state issued photo ID, a voter registration card, a birth certificate, and can prove they are legal citizens. Anyone who can't supply that information may have the "right" to vote (60,000 foot level concept) but does not have the PRIVELEDGE of exercising that right until they meet the requirements.

^this is seriously some anti-American vitriol your spewing out.

At least this is better than in Texas. The only thing you have to do is answer "Si" to be able to get a voter card.

The first clerk was just upset because somebody took his stapler.

The real question I have is why the Department of Motor Vehicles is issuing Voter IDs?

¿Qué hay de malo en eso?>> ^Chaucer:

At least this is better than in Texas. The only thing you have to do is answer "Si" to be able to get a voter card.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Remember, it's only election fraud when conservatives win!

Anyone making a lifestyle out of welfare (over two years on it) should be barred from voting until they're off the dole; any illegals caught voting should be executed as enemy spies and saboteurs.

The voting age needs to be raised to 25 except for members of the military. One hasn't been paycheck-raped by taxes enough at 18 to know what's going on, plus at that age one naturally knows nothing and cannot make informed decisions.


I don't think raising the voting age will turn everyone conservative. I'm not 100% conservative or liberal but what these super leftist liberals do in this video just really irritates me. A violation of your privacy to have someone look at your bank activity to issue you a voter id? Puh-lease.

I don't agree with you on your views on several other subjects and with all the extra sentiments in you put in the comments (Obamacare etc.) but I agree with you on this.

>> ^blankfist:

The real question I have is why the Department of Motor Vehicles is issuing Voter IDs?


I found it weird that they kept referring to it as a "Voter" ID in this video -- it's just a state ID.

>> ^NetRunner:

>> ^blankfist:
The real question I have is why the Department of Motor Vehicles is issuing Voter IDs?

I found it weird that they kept referring to it as a "Voter" ID in this video -- it's just a state ID.


Well yes that and loads of other questions too. When I look at the potentially restrictive and exclusive nature of statism, I tend to have a myriad of them.

not a perfect process... but what is seen in the video seems reasonable

as an american living overseas for many years, i've seen american bureaucracy at its worst in our consulates, embassies and trade offices ... what is seen in this video pales in comparison

try this one on for size before complaining of invasive, unfair requirements and possible conspiracy:

my son is born overseas and i want to apply for his us citizenship / passport

i try to phone the embassy to ask what documents i will need to bring by three-hour train ride - i get a 10-minute phone tree that answers nothing and simply refers me to their website, which is rattled-off so quickly that i need to listen to the 10-minute phone tree two more times to jot the url down

the website explains that answers cannot be given over the phone, and i can only speak to a human in an emergency circumstance - the website gives me some ambiguous answers, and states that if i have questions i will need to make an appointment online - an online calendar appears showing me possible appointment dates/times - all monday to friday between 9-11am and 2-4pm... also the american citizen services section is closed for all american holidays AND those of the host country - yay for having to take unpaid time off from work!

i get a date and time to appear, and i try to collect all relevant information to only make a single visit

at the appointed time, i appear and am told to surrender my bag and phone, pass through a metal detector, and then i am frisked - upon arriving at the proper office, i am given a number and told to wait - when my number is called, i approach the proper window and speak to an 'american' through a speaker system embedded in the 1-inch bulletproof glass

i have somehow managed to have most all of the necessary documents (not to the website's credit, but to my overkill), but one requirement stops me... they don't accept that i am a us citizen... what the hell?!

i show them my original us birth certificate, my valid us passport, my valid us driver's license, my social security card, proof of my us address, my us high school and university diplomas, my voter registration card, etc...

all are unacceptable proof...

i am told that to satisfy their requirement, they will need at least five-years' worth of us school transcripts from a single us location... since i was a military brat, and changed schools often, this was an impossibility

i finally get through to a supervisor who i had phone my state senator, who is a family friend, and he rips them one and they finally relent

clear? nope... one further requirement is that my son's notarized foreign birth certificate needs to be translated into english and notarized - i have the translation but not the notary seal (this can only be done at the embassy) - i ask them to notarize it and they inform me that i will have to leave and mail it to them with a check and pre-paid, express-mail return envelope - once i receive that, i should set up a new appointment and return... with their assuring me that the process (CRBA) would be complete at that point

i do what they said, and two weeks later I receive the now-notarized translation and set up a new appointment - i return at the stipulated time with all the proper documents and go to pay the fee...

then i am told that my infant son has to be present as well... and so the process can't be completed at that time

i return home, a 6-hour roundtrip commute by train, and set up a new appointment... returning with my 6-month-old son so that they can see him through the bullet proof glass, and then i can pay the exorbitant fee

as if all of this isn't enough, the cashier will not provide change... and they want me to leave, set up a new appointment and return with exact change - i offer to leave 'a tip' of close to us$20 in order to finalize this ridiculous process without having to return... they refuse

having read all of this... can you still complain about what this woman and her son had to go through?

nonsense

@Diogenes the claim here isn't that this is the worst of all possible bureaucratic nightmares, the claim is that the process has been changed to make it more of a bureaucratic nightmare than it used to be, without any valid reason for the change.

But honestly the kind of nightmare you went through is typical of anyone who needs to establish initial claims of citizenship if you weren't born in the US, and it's a prerequisite of the process you saw here. I suspect you were having to deal with the department of immigration for that, and I'd love to see us make that a lot less of a hassle too.

@NetRunner: agreed that it's not the worst, nor is my anecdote...

and certainly odd changes in policy and illogical requirements do increase bureaucracy... but i'm not certain that i can agree that there isn't any valid reason for change...

think back through the last 11 years of us elections, in particular the previous three presidential elections... claims of voter fraud, hanging chad, dead rolls, acorn, etc -- now, i don't know if or what impact wisconsin's regulatory changes have on that... but that's the nature of government: we expect incompetence, and success is generally just a fortunate coincidence

from my tale, our overseas missions weren't always as i described... they changed, radically so, post 9-11 -- i used to be able to phone my nation's consular services and be shown respect and have my questions answered... help was given freely and easily, as one should expect

not so anymore - now we're herded in like infected cattle and treated as a possible terrorist - the 'help' has morphed into a hindrance... but are the reasons for such valid? how can we say...

and no, i wasn't dealing with the department of immigration... just my embassy in filing a consular report of birth abroad (CRBA), and those policies have changed recently too... for no apparent reason

i'm an american citizen, not an immigrant - there wasn't one iota of reason to suspect my not being a citizen... and soooo many reasons to accept that i was...

my family came to north america in the early 18th century... i'm tall, blond, and blue-eyed... i speak perfect american english with a non-regional accent... i served my country for six years in the usmc and am a veteran of the persian gulf war... and this is in addition to all the documentation i presented...

instead, i was treated as 'suspect' by a foreign- and indifferent-looking woman speaking to me in broken english... quite rudely questioning ME regarding something i have always assumed was fundamental: my being a us citizen

i guess my point is that videos like this present the particular situation as being 'scandalous' ... when in fact it's commonplace... and while annoying, it's not really insulting -- try visiting a us consular mission abroad and then complain about the bureaucracy, invasion of privacy, and being treated in a demeaning way

honestly, watching the domestic situation in my home country from overseas for the last 15-odd years is amazing... the partisanship is ridiculous, and so are most of their claims -- it's like having your body (the nation) infested with two distinct groups of intestinal parasites--like an old-south, grangerford-shepherdson blood-feud--the attacks from both left- and right-leaning tapeworms have risen to the level of threatening the very health and life of the host

videos and other seeming vitriol like this appear to me as symptomatic of such an unhealthy bent: a bloody feces-laden discharge