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*promote

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, July 29th, 2014 12:24pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter billpayer.

Cue the pro-Israel propagandists to tell you the dozen reasons why you're wrong and it's proper to bomb the schools, hospitals, entire neighborhoods, and shelters full of children to safeguard Israel from the useless rockets.

It's the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They're both wrong. They're both at fault. They're both stupid and bloodthirsty.

One side is not better or worse than the other.

It's the epitome of ignorance to jump to the conclusion that because one sees one side being far worse than the other, that person must be promoting the 'lesser evil'.
It's just as ignorant to jump to the conclusion that empathy for the Palestinian civilians trapped in the giant concentration camp that is Gaza is tantamount to all out support for Hamas and it's tactics. That's a total straw man argument made by those that can't answer the actual issues of an expansionist Israel flexing it's significant military muscles against a trapped, helpless, completely defenseless population that has already been ghettoized into the stone age without qualm, using the blatantly ridiculous excuse of 'defense' for a purely offensive military campaign against a civilian 'quasi-refugee' population. It seems to me that people who make that argument have made the ignant (a stubborn kind of ignorance that can't be cured by education) decision to buy into the (quite well produced, I must admit) Israeli propaganda machine and ignore the indisputable facts.
Both sides are at fault, wrong, bloodthirsty, and bad, one side IS FAR MORE at fault, wrong, bad, and bloodthirsty...or if not more bloodthirsty then at least far better at blood lust sating without conscience.

Wrong.

The side with the most power is worse. The side that can precisely destroy targets and yet somehow can't stop hitting everything else, is worse. The side that has layered defense systems neutralising the threat of home made dumbfire rockets, is worse. The side where people line up to laugh as civilians are murdered with no where to run, is fucking worse.

You cannot bring equivalency to this equation because there is none, and there never was. Israel has always relied on the rest of the world to back it's play, and continually pushes the limits of what it can get away with, defying the world to stop it.

If there was justice, a noose would be waiting for every cunt from either side responsible for the death of civilians, from the politicians and commanders who give the orders down to the troops that pulled the trigger. I fucking guarantee you there would be many times more Israeli's swinging than Palestinians...

We can all agree that the Palestinians and the Israelis are all victims of Hamas. At least the Israelis take showers.

Both of you are so angry and whip-ready with media regurgitated points that you fail to see whats in front of you. Israel may be winning the ground war but Palestine has won the Media war (for once....).

It is pretty obvious that nobody blames innocent civilians so lets just ignore that.

Hamas....and Isreal are both equally to blame. Both of you are so busy trying to point fingers because of a lopsided body count that you fail to realize that its not the 'equivalency of an equation' that's wrong.....its the fact that the equation exists at all that is wrong....and it does exist. Saying that it doesn't exists equates past present and future Israeli deaths to nothing.

if there were equal deaths on both sides then it would be okay? Of course not. It's the morons on both sides that keep picking at each other that are to blame. By pointing your finger at one side and declaring "you're worse" you legitimize and by default PROMOTE the other side. Unless you qualify your statement, which you didn't.

All you said was "Pro-Israeli Propgandists...braaahhh." Oh hey you could have mentioned that Hamas probably uses urban casualties as their own method of propaganda.


And Asmo you said "I guarantee you...there would be more Israelis swinging."

SO WHAT?

Hang the responsible and move on. The moment you say...told you there were more Israelis responsible is the moment the Israelis pick up the fight again or vice versa.

So yeah..I stand by my statement that it is the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They are both (Hamas and Israeli elites) bloodthirsty morons and it doesn't matter whose at fault...it just needs to stop.

No, let's NOT forget the civilians.
1100 dead civilians is NOT equal to 40 dead invading soldiers.
Meanwhile Israels civilians are 90% in favor of this prolonged war and they are living under NO threat whatsoever. They are not in the same situation as the innocent besieged Gazan families and children being slaughtered by Israel.
There is NO equivalency here at all.
This is an attack on Gaza and I could write a much worse description for what this really is.

Wow, that's some seriously racist commenting right there.

How is it all the newbie red P's users replying in these threads are hardliners ?

So Strange...

I'm sorry, but no one is recognizing just how good of a joke that is.

No it's goddamn hilarious.

The Jews are doing to the Palestines what Hitler did to the Jews.

How is noone making this connection...?

My question is, if Canada or Mexico were being controlled by terrorists and were firing rockets into our country and killing people, how long do you think it would take for the national outrage to develop and a ground campaign sent out to utterly destroy the capability of the enemy to hurt us any longer? I don't see us putting up with it, or any other country for that matter. Yet, for some reason there is a double standard with Israel that people think they should put up with it.

That said, I would agree that Israel has a lot to answer for as far as civilian deaths; there is a lot of racism and insensitivity and brutality. America isn't any better.. We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan to destroy their war machine and killed over 250k people. Iraq probably had quite a few more, yet we are lecturing to Israel to stop trying to remove the terrorists who live in their back yard. We would never stand for it so why are we telling Israel that they should. I am against war and I think Israel has crossed the line many times but I still recognize that countries are asking them to do something they themselves would never do.

Yes. That is what has happened.

In Gaza.

Under IT"S OCCUPATION BY ISRAEL.

...and It is Gaza suffering loss of life right now. NOT ISRAEL.

btw. America once had an occupying force...

Did you watch the whole video?

Lets follow your analogy along shall we?

Assume mexico and canada are entirely fenced in, with nowhere to run. The US surrounds them on all borders.

The 'terrorists' only have homemade rockets with very short range, with exceptionally low yield warheads, barely enough to damage panelwork on a car, let alone kill large quantities of people.

Would you think it justified to kill 80% civilians within the encircled mexico and canada, targeting schools and UN support centers, all in an effort to defend against this 'threat' ??

Lets take it a step further, and assume that 80% of the population of mexico / canada are all under the age of 25. The 80% civilian death rate, a vast majority of these are young people...children....still ok?

Are you still ok with the tactic of utter annihilation of the civilian population?

Oh man...I feel bad you just went on an angry tirade because you saw what you wanted to read and NOT what I wrote.

Derp...I didn't say let's forget the civilians. I said...that "nobody blames INNOCENT civilians so let's move past that" (i.e. let's not assume anyone is blaming civilians, or at least...Im certainly not).

Derp...I said that equivalency is irrelevant not that there IS equivalency. I said that the problem is that there IS an equation. When there is an equation there is an automatic need to balance it which equals more deaths down the road. THE PROBLEM is that people are dying and it needs to stop.

Why does that make you angry senor Caps and Bold? Why is the statement that death is bad and it needs to stop a problem?

Without reading and understanding what I wrote you automatically categorized me as a "hardliner." Then to further 'discredit' me you took a visual trait (my red P) and further categorized me in order to mock my statements and garner public support against my statements.

Its scary how easy and subconscious it is to create a reviled OTHER, which is Ironic considering the issue.

Anyway.... My only central point is and has been that Hamas and the Israeli elite directing the conflict are both to blame...they are both perpetuating the conflict throughout the decades in the best ways they can.

Why does saying that they are both to blame for the violence make me a hardliner? For who exactly? For people who understand that taking sides is stupid. Yes. And why does it spawn such vitriolic responses?

How can you not blame Hamas....How can you not blame Israeli elites?

Killing needs to stop. Humanitarian issues need to be fixed. Simple. Wooo such a hardliner.

You didn't address my question; I never said I am ok with civilians being killed. Could you please address the scenario; how do you think the US would respond to rocket attacks on its cities? Would we attack and eliminate the threat or shrug our shoulders? We're asking Israel to shrug its shoulders about these attacks yet isn't it true we ourselves would never do that?

Noone is telling Israel to shrug their shoulders....the issue is not with the defence, it is the measure of the defence.

Israel should send in a police force, and find those responsible. Shut down the tunnels by ground, stop bombing indiscriminately.

This requires police action, not military...the 'missiles' you keep referring to are pathetically weak, absolutely pathetic.

Were I leader of Israel, I would drop the wall, set about repairing the damages inside the city, allow the organisation of a government, support it in getting benefits in for the people of Gaza and Palestine, halt the invasion of settlers into Palestinian territory, halt the bombings and send in armed police where reports of weapons stashes are. Set up large scale police patrols in troubled areas, let people go about their lives without the fear of having a bomb dropped on their head, try to give them a leg up in life....and the revenge attacks using piss weak rockets will stop.

The Israeli measure of force is far far higher than it should be.

There is no army inside gaza, its kids playing with homemade rocketry. Get cops in there, not 500lb bombs.

If both sides agreed to a ceasefire, allowing UN peacekeepers into the area to...you know...keep the peace, whilst the cities are rebuilt, peoples lives can get back to normal...my god imagine that world.

You make a point to be sure. And it is clearly being ignored. Regardless of how it came to the point, the USA for sure would go absolutely insane, and declare war on the attackers, as well as one or two of their so called friends.

We already saw this in 9/11. We saw a conflict that required far too long to come to an inconclusion. We also saw it used, politically, as motivation to launch an additional war against someone else. I might add, that I suspect many people would consider both efforts to have been unsuccessful.

The situation in Palestine seems far more similar to the situation with the Native Americans some time ago. Land theft and ethnic cleansing by virtue of superior technology and a racial superiority complex and an unwillingness on the natives' part to just roll over. I would have hoped that we had learned something since then.

I would

Oh, some of us HAVE made that connection repeatedly.

No, but we can certainly all agree that the Palestinians and Hamas are victims of the Israelis.
The Palestinians want to take showers, but Israel has cut off/destroyed all their water and electricity infrastructure (because they are apparently afraid Palestinians might start throwing water balloons, so no water or electricity for them, perfectly reasonable, proper, and humane).
#IsolateIsrael

Palestinians and Hamas are the aggressors and now they are getting their buts kicked.

Not so in any meaningful way.

Israelis are the expansionists....aggressors.
Israel bombed first this (and many other) round(s)....aggressors.
Israel has many other less harmful methods of obtaining their 'stated' goals but prefer indiscriminately bombing civilian populations and shelters, then lying about it and blaming the victims....aggressors and liars.
Israel is safe as long as the iron dome system works, and it's working fine against the fireworks, but they still claim their offensive military campaign is defensive....aggressors, liars, and assholes.
Israel has done to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to them, namely force them into ghettos, then a giant concentration camp where they are randomly killed, but Israel still thinks they somehow hold the high moral ground (in large part because of people like you who will tell them so, in the face of all evidence to the contrary)....evil, history forgetting aggressors.
I think that's enough to say you are dead wrong in the first part of your statement....but they are getting their butts kicked. To me, that's a statement about the inhuman willingness of Israel to repeatedly and viciously attack a defenseless, imprisoned population rather than a slight against Palestinians.

This reminds me of people who blame women for being raped with statements like 'if they didn't want to be raped, they shouldn't have had so much to drink' or 'they shouldn't have worn those revealing clothes' continuing with 'that makes both the woman and the man at fault' and ending with 'since they're both at fault, no one should be punished, it's a wash'.
That sounds considerably like the argument you've been making here....with Israel blaming the Palestinians for dressing slutty, asking to be raped.

Not racist, hygienic observation based on experience.

160 children died building tunnels for Hamas...

that's an interesting story

Because it's moronic?

Or uncomfortably on the nose (ethnic pun intended).

Please ignore the flame baiting, do not lower yourself to their level.

Reasoning and facts are secondary to anyone who defends this kind of atrocity.

People who hate America hate Israel.

Pretty clear!

How many of those tunnels were into Egypt used to smuggle dangerous items like food and medicine because Israel blockaded them and stopped or drastically slowed any shipments? How many of the "attack tunnels" only went into occupied territory, and how many went into Israel proper? How many children died digging these tunnels in the last decade, as opposed to the entirety of the past?
Ya don't like to answer those kinds of questions, me thinks. Makes the story less 'interesting' by adding informative facts?

still haven't figured out what anecdotal means, have you.