simpleton @bobnight46lover doesnt understand helping others helps himself

The cost of the person to act as a friend and guide for these people is probably a much greater cost to the non-profit than the $500 cash.

I'm gonna have to be that guy. $500 a month for a family of four is $2k, which is a very good chunk of money to drop in your lap.

That works out the same as it they were on a single income, working 40 hour weeks at $10/hr, so almost equivalent to a full time job. No doubt that's gonna be a big deal and noticeable financial improvement to the recipient(s).

As always with UBI schemes, the devil is in how you pay for it. If it's truly universal, paying $500/month to ~330 million Americans would cost $1.98 Trillion dollars, meanwhile the current entire US gov budget for 2022 is estimated at $1.2 Trillion.

So, to implement $500/month universally in America would require not only increasing overall tax revenues by almost 50% it would also require the cancellation of 100% of every single other expenditure. That not includes military spending going to zero, but even cancelling the jobs of everyone that collects taxes and would presumably have been responsible for distributing the $500 checks.

If the 'fix' is to just tax the pants off anyone earning more than the $500/month, or limiting who we give it to, then it ceases to be a UBI scheme, and is instead just a mundane modification of the existing social security scheme by shuffling more money back and forth between different folks.

They’re volunteers. Volunteers don’t cost much money. They aren’t paid social workers.

Republicans seem to think bad random events only happen to corporations that deserve handouts whenever they ask, but when actual people go bankrupt and become destitute it’s always laziness, poor choices, or in the case of their favorite clown, good business.
They also seem to have trouble understanding the truth in the saying “a rising tide lifts all boats.”

Sometimes I feel like Alzheimer’s must be transmitted through political affiliation, because Republican minds have been slowly turning to mush since Reagan. When I was young, Republicans could still think, do math, and make cogent, if inhumane arguments (but not so much after Bush sr.). Now they’re just inhumane.

Did they offer that in the program, or was it only random individuals….or are you extrapolating, assuming the program became universal? I thought this plan was just for the indigent.

$500 each for 4 works out to more than my wife brought home for 40 hours a week after 15 years at her last job…..barely livable for 4 anywhere in California, a nice income in some states. Not a huge amount to provide for 6 months. How much does temporary housing, services, extra law enforcement, etc cost over that time for 4 people? I assume they’re close.

Yes, universal income is costly, but most on the right won’t consider giving the destitute money if they don’t get a handout too, that likely multiplies the amount by over 10 times. With a means test, it would be billions, maybe under $100 billion. We spent nearly $6 trillion on bad Covid response in 2020, including trillions to corporate welfare handouts with no strings attached and they still fired millions of workers. I think if that’s ok we can afford to invest in making people productive again instead of drains on society (of course, not everyone will benefit, but 75% success must be a win overall). If not, socialize any corporation that took a bailout, we bought em, we should own them.

…Or taking on more debt like every government project, but the increase in gdp from turning costs into profits likely pays for the program without a dime in new taxes, just a reduction in costs of handling the homeless and new taxes from their incomes….especially if you have a means test and not universal income.

Yes, they convoluted by calling it universal income but focusing on homeless. It should be UMI. Universal Minimum Income….under employed get less than unemployed up to a certain minimum livable combined income, fully employed (with living wages) get nothing….IMO. Sadly, a large portion of people can’t see what’s in that plan for them (no homeless, less crime dumbshits) so won’t consider it unless they also get $500 even though that’s not even a noticeable amount to them….one more ivory backscratcher.

I'm for this.
If homeless this kind of $ is enriching. It has real meaning.

I am against all the government strings that end up keeping one dependent of government.

Just hand out to those in need.

As for people on warfare there only need to be a set time limit of benefits. Helping is great making people dependent is wrong.

How extremely unRepublican of you.

No strings, no hoops, no “no help until you get a job” type of nonsense!?
Who is this? You are aware all those strings and hoops are Republican additions to welfare laws, right?

Second, a set time limit for those on warfare!?! (I must assume that means companies that are part of the military industrial complex, riding high on that sweet sweet government cheese)

Holy shit, that’s pretty damn far left of you. Congratulations! I’m seriously impressed, and fully back that plan. If your business is making tools for war, it shouldn’t be a private business, it should be a department in the DOD. America doesn’t like war profiteering….or so we claim.

👏

Yeah, the crutch of it for me is the UBI moniker.

What you describe at the end of your post, minimum income, is really just a rewording of the existing social security and welfare systems across the western world. I know they look different in each, but here in Canada what you describe is more or less our already existing system's design goal. Welfare money exists for those that straight up can not work, and an employment insurance system exists to protect those inbetween jobs, meanwhile other multiple programs are aimed at distributing financial assistance to the lower income groups.

Despite all of that already existing, UBI is still being heralded up here in trials as well as a replacement. The problem being that for the needy the UBI pitches are generally a step backwards.

Eg. $500/month is the UBI pitch, and they say it'll be great because everyone gets it no matter what so it's simple and fair and nobody is left behind. The trouble though is that the reality is the truly in need people were already benefitting more than the $500/month under the existing systems, and the cost was much less because it was targeted.

I here UBI and get very worried about folks just selling snake oil 'solutions' that in the end are just a demand to adopt their own particular flavor of wealth redistribution.

Ok. I admit that’s unnecessary and confusing.

A bit more than a rewording, a complete overhaul from the current American system. Never expect us to be reasonable or simple in our plans like our northern cousins can be.

I agree, without a means test, income limits for participation, assistance programs can’t be funded enough to actually help the needy and hand out the same amount to the well off. Those plans are nuts IMO.

I understand your issue with UBI. I support it in the sense of a safety net, no one should be forced to live on less than $X and IMO there should be no requirement besides no/low income….but to function that requires those who already make over $X to get nothing and just be happy they won’t be mugged for food money. I don’t support the “here’s a free $500 for everybody”, inflation would make it meaningless in a year, more circulating dollars with no more in the treasury/total value = inflation on top of your valid points.

I said this before.

In broad terms...

Endless welfare is wrong,
I'm also against 40+ years of Social security- Its a pyramid scheme.


Should be 1 system where all get say 15 years of benefits.
Should be able to take it a monthly amounts.

Should not be able to start collecting till at least 25. This will make you get a job, get skills and become less dependent.


If you 30 and have a kid and want to take 6 months off then deduct it from those 15 years.

if 50 and burned out. take a year off go to school or such and refresh. Deduct that from you 15 years. Now you have 14.

You get in a wreck and laid up for a year, loose you job, no problem. Use 1 of your years.


I dont want strings if you want to buy drugs, travel, or go to school does not matter.

When you 65 and only have 8 years left of benefits your should keep working. Maybe taking a lessor job. maybe take those 8 years at full rate take it at 1/2 rate as a supplement.


Its you life you know what you need not government.

Also in general, This should not apply to , mental illness patients and those who truly can not function on their own. or their care takers if family members.

Republicans aren't assholes we just don't want chronic dependence.

The real bob stood up.

You aren’t for assistance for the homeless, you insist you should get the same handout, for the same period of time, despite having no need. You just erased the positive comment above I think someone else made using your account.

You know 1/2 or more would use it up early, then need assistance later.

The “strings” are things like prove you applied to at least one job per day AND do community service until you’re employed. Barriers to getting your shit together and, for many, barriers to applying.

Who gets to determine who qualifies as disabled?

Republicans ARE assholes and you have chronic dependence already in the form of tax breaks (to the point of zero taxes) for their businesses, massive corporate welfare outpacing personal welfare exponentially, use of public services despite not paying for them (roads, ports, police, etc).
If you use ANYTHING the government provides but don’t pay taxes (or minimal taxes equating to 5-10%) you are chronically dependent on government welfare. That describes every Republican business owner I’ve ever known, not one wanted to pay a dime to keep his nation healthy if they could possibly avoid it.

I liked this site much better when I didn't have to wade through so much political grandstanding and bloviating... could we just ban the politics and enjoy some interesting and insightful videos?