Sad. Yeah, I don't think this kind of journalism is the kind of thing for a woman. More power to them to do it if they wish, but it just seems like a bad idea, especially in those more misogynistic social and political climates.

That sucks. Especially since Lara Logan is pretty much the quintessential journalist. Smart, sassy and beautiful too.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-17-2008/lara-logan

what do you know, Egyptian mob of rapists has the same taste in women as i do.

Incidents like that hurt all of us in the long run.

Not surprising unfortunately, women get harassed over there a lot, I know one woman who had to mace a guy once to get him to fuck off.

yeah... arabic mentality is not exactly the most respectful towards women (surprise, surprise!).

Now can we bomb them? A society is only as good as it's worst people...I say we bomb them first then ourselves.

>> ^EMPIRE:
yeah... arabic mentality is not exactly the most respectful towards women (surprise, surprise!).


Wasn't always like that so it's not fair to generalise. Take a look at how women used to be treated in Afghanistan, they were worshipped and were easily the equals of men (worth also pointing out that the Koran classes men and women as equals). It's only since the end of the second world war when religions such as Christianity and Islam worked to change the perceived role of women in Afghan society so that the last half a decade has radically altered the standing of women in that country. King Amanullah worked very hard to promote women's empowerment in the early 20th century, but all his work has been undone, and from a historical perspective we only need to look towards the Christian and Taliban influences at work in that country to understand how it all got fucked up.

I wasn't talking about how women were treated in the past, or will be treated in the future. I'm talking about the current mentality towards women in most arabic countries.

Sure there's still a lot of discrimination against women in almost every country in the world. But in arabic countries it's particularly bad.

>> ^Reefie:

>> ^EMPIRE:
yeah... arabic mentality is not exactly the most respectful towards women (surprise, surprise!).

Wasn't always like that so it's not fair to generalise. Take a look at how women used to be treated in Afghanistan, they were worshipped and were easily the equals of men (worth also pointing out that the Koran classes men and women as equals). It's only since the end of the second world war when religions such as Christianity and Islam worked to change the perceived role of women in Afghan society so that the last half a decade has radically altered the standing of women in that country. King Amanullah worked very hard to promote women's empowerment in the early 20th century, but all his work has been undone, and from a historical perspective we only need to look towards the Christian and Taliban influences at work in that country to understand how it all got fucked up.

Absolutely horrible. But this isn't a game.

Honestly jail time for these freaks would be too good for them. Attacking a woman is one of the lowest things you can do.

On the subject of women in Cairo:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/16/rogers.egypt.sexual.harrassment/index.html

/facepalm
Goddamnit roving band of Egyptian rapists!

You're fuckin' up the revolution for every body.. -_-

Pretty sure there are rapists in every country in the world, whether society and culture respects women or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

To look at this situation and say, "see! The Arabs are naturally inclined towards rape or violent treatment of women is ludicrous. You are attributing a social phenomenon with a half-assed biological determinant analysis. Such an analysis lends itself readily to racism, as you are saying that this particular 'type' of human being has a natural inclination towards a specific behavior. Condensed, you are saying, "Arabs are all X". You get where this logic leads to?

We have to see this in the context of history, economics, class, gender, etc. We have to see the way that men treat women as a result of continued struggle to equate Woman with Human, i.e. on par with Man. We have to understand the series of transformations Egypt, as well as the entire world have gone through, i.e. the progression of class struggle to reach this current moment. To ignore all of this an simply say it is because they are Arab is, emphasized, half-assed and racist.

What about the treatment of women in Western society? http://www.childrensmediaproject.org/photos/woman-in-cage.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States
"in 2004, women's wages were 76.5% of men's wages"

There comes a point where you are presented with such consistent and abhorrent disregard for human life that we are left to say that this entire system and world we have inherited is wrong on a fundamental level.

While rape exists everywhere there are men, and singling out Arabs as being naturally inclined towards rape is wrong, there is no other culture on earth that, upon telling the police that she has been raped by her brother-in-law, a woman then is charged with adultery and stoned to death by her own community... or at the very least has her nose and lips cut off.

Humans can be pretty horrible to each other, but modern Islam is pretty much the front-runner for atrocities against women.
>> ^tsquire1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture
To look at this situation and say, "see! The Arabs are naturally inclined towards rape or violent treatment of women is ludicrous. You are attributing a social phenomenon with a half-assed biological determinant analysis. Such an analysis lends itself readily to racism, as you are saying that this particular 'type' of human being has a natural inclination towards a specific behavior. Condensed, you are saying, "Arabs are all X". You get where this logic leads to?
We have to see this in the context of history, economics, class, gender, etc. We have to see the way that men treat women as a result of continued struggle to equate Woman with Human, i.e. on par with Man. We have to understand the series of transformations Egypt, as well as the entire world have gone through, i.e. the progression of class struggle to reach this current moment. To ignore all of this an simply say it is because they are Arab is, emphasized, half-assed and racist.
What about the treatment of women in Western society? http://www.childrensmediaproject.org/photos/woman-in-cage.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_
disparity_in_the_United_States
"in 2004, women's wages were 76.5% of men's wages"
There comes a point where you are presented with such consistent and abhorrent disregard for human life that we are left to say that this entire system and world we have inherited is wrong on a fundamental level.

To tar and feather all Egyptians as being more accepting of rape is quite unfair. This was a crime like any other, but as one Redditor put it "The Middle East does not hold a monopoly on misogyny". (Click on the title link in the post to see the reference)

Here's an excerpt from an interview Neal Conan did today on Talk Of The Nation with NPR foreign correspondent Jamie Tarabay, about the attack on Lara Logan:

CONAN: And were you surprised to hear of this attack on Lara Logan?

TARABAY: Unfortunately, I was not. I want to begin by adding my concern and my sympathy to Lara and her family, and my best wishes for her at this time. But I do want to say that when it comes to the Egyptian government and Egyptian demonstrations, this is not the first time this has happened. There's a long history of the national ruling party sending out security forces or plainclothes policemen, no matter how you want to describe them, and with specific instructions to actually target women. And there have been well-documented instances, you know, even from the last presidential election in 2005, when they have, you know, described men tearing off the shirts of women, sexually molesting them, humiliating them to kow(ph) protests. This is not something that is new, unfortunately, but it's also nothing that's restricted to Egyptian demonstrations.

CONAN: Where else have you encountered this?

TARABAY: Well, you know, this is something that happens to, you know, female reporters, and not just reporters, but obviously women who are active in politics. And it happens - you know, there have been countless instances of female reporters being sexually harassed and, in some cases, gang raped - everywhere, from places like Pakistan to Angola.

CONAN: So clearly, not just a problem in the Middle East.

TARABAY: It's obviously a problem where security is bought and paid for, and there is very, very little respect for women rights. I mean, this is always an issue in a lot of these places.

>> ^BoneyD:

To tar and feather all Egyptians as being more accepting of rape is quite unfair. This was a crime like any other, but as one Redditor put it "The Middle East does not hold a monopoly on misogyny". (Click on the title link in the post to see the reference)


This isn't about tarring and feathering them...no one suggested that. I suggested the only thing we can do now is turn their entire country into Glass via multiple nuclear strikes...You Don't Fuck With Our Hotties World!!!

"She didn't do anything wrong, she didn't even know that she would be risking anything."

Clothilde Le Coz is so dramatic. I HOPE Lara understood that, when one goes to a place like Egypt, that shit can happen. "Oh, I did not know there was danger in that dark alley, on the other side of town, where even the cops won't go!" Horseshit.

I am sure Lara did know--and she still took her chances. I feel Lara should be respected MORE for knowing the danger, yet standing up for her rights to work where she pleases like any other man.

>> ^Deano:
Honestly jail time for these freaks would be too good for them. Attacking a woman is one of the lowest things you can do.


This view is antithesis of an egalitarian society. Is woman man's equal, or is woman not? I ask this in a philosophical manner--not as some prick who thinks women should be hit, or that if they are not hit then they are not equal to man... I do view man and woman as equals--but I keep that to a strict definition...

A side point; I personally find it far more reprehensible for a woman to hit her husband, then hide behind the "beaten woman" laws (False domestic violence reports.) Happened to my brothers (One who returned the favor in kind,) brother in laws X2, my friends and distant relatives. From friends and family, I know far more women who have done this than the reverse. Sad, but it seems it will only get far worse before it gets better.

Kind of like when I would yell at people who cussed in front of children. Of course, when I heard kids cussing far worse than the adults, I gave up caring for the "right side..."

>> ^blankfist:

Sad. Yeah, I don't think this kind of journalism is the kind of thing for a woman. More power to them to do it if they wish, but it just seems like a bad idea, especially in those more misogynistic social and political climates.


Why do you exclude the male journalists who covered the revolution and were beaten or killed? Surely that was horrific for them and their families, despite the lack of sexual assault. Perhaps this sort of journalism isn't for journalists.

They make reporters go out and stand in hurricanes, not because it's safe or smart or adds anything to the reporting, but because the genuine danger makes the footage more dramatic. This seems along those lines. Paying the protesters themselves to take some footage, or taking it from a safe distance then reporting from a studio, would have been just fine.

>> ^entr0py:

>> ^blankfist:
Sad. Yeah, I don't think this kind of journalism is the kind of thing for a woman. More power to them to do it if they wish, but it just seems like a bad idea, especially in those more misogynistic social and political climates.

Why do you exclude the male journalists who covered the revolution and were beaten or killed? Surely that was horrific for them and their families, dispute the lack of sexual assault.

Why do you exclude Hermes, Jerry Seinfeld and the X-Men? Probably because we weren't talking about them.

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^BoneyD:
To tar and feather all Egyptians as being more accepting of rape is quite unfair. This was a crime like any other, but as one Redditor put it "The Middle East does not hold a monopoly on misogyny". (Click on the title link in the post to see the reference)

This isn't about tarring and feathering them...no one suggested that. I suggested the only thing we can do now is turn their entire country into Glass via multiple nuclear strikes...You Don't Fuck With Our Hotties World!!!


And the twenty or so Soldiers who saved her? Or the women who helped? And me wonders if this is sacasm or seriousness. Glass-ify a whole nation based on differences and subjective "hotness?"

>> ^blankfist:
Why do you exclude Hermes, Jerry Seinfeld and the X-Men? Probably because we weren't talking about them.

No need to be silly. Your statement "Yeah, I don't think this kind of journalism is the kind of thing for a woman" implies that you think it is the kind of thing for some men. If you hadn't meant to except men you would have said something like "Yeah, I don't think this kind of journalism is a good idea".

It's cool if you want to defend your point, or even change your mind. But if you REALLY didn't mean to exclude men, I hope you can see that's how you worded it anyway.

@entr0py, I don't think dangerous locations like Egypt are a place for women journalists. This is my personal opinion, and I wouldn't want to stop them if they chose to go. When men are attacked in these hostile mysoginistic environments, they sustain punches and kicks and things of that nature. When women are attacked, they sustain those kind of attacks but then also are subjected to rape and sexual assault.

Religion.

Islam says it's ok.

There's your problem.

While this is a terrible thing to happen to any person, it is something she knew was possible and she put herself in harms way. She's smart, she knows the risks. Just like reporters embedded with soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan know they might get blown up by a roadside bomb.

And while it could happen anywhere, it is far more likely to happen someplace with political turmoil and a frequent disregard for women. Many Arab countries fall into this category. There's no use getting all politically correct about it. Of course there are non-Arab countries that fall into that category too, but we're not talking about them.

>> ^Yogi:

Now can we bomb them? A society is only as good as it's worst people...I say we bomb them first then ourselves.


(Edit) Whoops. Didn't read the whole comment. Redacted.

Doesn't she have big twin guns? Oh, that's the other Lara.

Uh, where exactly did Christian influences play a role in that? >> ^Reefie:

>> ^EMPIRE:
yeah... arabic mentality is not exactly the most respectful towards women (surprise, surprise!).

Wasn't always like that so it's not fair to generalise. Take a look at how women used to be treated in Afghanistan, they were worshipped and were easily the equals of men (worth also pointing out that the Koran classes men and women as equals). It's only since the end of the second world war when religions such as Christianity and Islam worked to change the perceived role of women in Afghan society so that the last half a decade has radically altered the standing of women in that country. King Amanullah worked very hard to promote women's empowerment in the early 20th century, but all his work has been undone, and from a historical perspective we only need to look towards the Christian and Taliban influences at work in that country to understand how it all got fucked up.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the possibility that while her cover as a correspondent (guess so) may be without holes, CBS might be using a universally incendiary act allegedly perpetrated by some revolutionary yahoos to produce some new and improved hype in order to rally nation(s) of robots to fall deeper into their somnambulant stupor regarding the mechanisms and intent of world affairs?

Who cares if she's the best-looking teleprompter-reading propagandist on the telly? Hmmm?

Dirty Arab Egyptian scum
Where does it say in that foul Koran of yours does it say it is OK to rape women
Muhammad has created a horrible religion and you think Christianity is bad
Both are misogynistic but I think Islam takes the cake.
Its a shame that you have taken your moment in the sun and turned it into a vile and despicable act.
There is no excuse for that behavior.
Now I suppose we must kill Ms. Logan because it is her fault you animals attacked her.
Isn't that what you dopes do "honor killing".
Maybe you will overstep your bounds with your new found military dictatorship
and provoke Israel so the Jews can destroy your country as they did in 67.
Terms such as freedom and democracy are words you can not understand
until you free yourselves from "to serve"

>> ^LizLizscott:

Dirty Arab Egyptian scum
Where does it say in that foul Koran of yours does it say it is OK to rape women
Muhammad has created a horrible religion and you think Christianity is bad
Both are misogynistic but I think Islam takes the cake.
Its a shame that you have taken your moment in the sun and turned it into a vile and despicable act.
There is no excuse for that behavior.
Now I suppose we must kill Ms. Logan because it is her fault you animals attacked her.
Isn't that what you dopes do "honor killing".
Maybe you will overstep your bounds with your new found military dictatorship
and provoke Israel so the Jews can destroy your country as they did in 67.
Terms such as freedom and democracy are words you can not understand
until you free yourselves from "to serve"


While I understand the intensity of your feelings about this, I think you should check that you're still being rational enough about your position.

@ LizLizscot, Hey now, no need to blame god exclusively or even the bogus interpretation(s) offered up from the best and worst of devotees of all sects, creeds, religious atheists, etc.
Perhaps it's the modern Persian male and the generations of deficit imprinting?
(in most personal experiences with the same, the stereotype seems to have served adequately)
-Cultures the world over have all risen respectively to their incompetence in demonstrating a healthy social evolution. What can one say ma'am, the world is a pretty sick place thanks to most humans.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. "
-Jiddu Krishnamurti

Anyone else detect dirty foot smell?

Hint: What can you do with one sock?

Its a sad trend that people target Islam as the source of oppression. Religion is an ideology, like anything else. That means it occurs within a context of economics, state-apparatuses, class interest, racism and patriarchy. Religion becomes an extension of these power relationships. The religion doesn't matter, its the class forces behind it. Any religion can become oppressive so long as the conditions of power exist to cause that to happen in the first place. To target religion, then, is to target a symptom, not a source.

You can claim that Islam is *naturally* misogynistic. This is false. Few religions will be *naturally* anything. Evidence of this lies in the vast differences between interpretations of religion. What is more accurate is to analyze how this religion fits into the interests of ruling elite, how they exert their hegemony through religion, etc.

Please, stop focusing your energy on Islam as evil. That is a neoconservative lie created to make a split in internationalism more severe. It is instead the material system that the religion finds itself in that is evil, namely, capitalism. Not to say that an ideology is incapable of being "X or Y". Just that these variables are less potent than the concrete material limits of economic and racial systems.

[redacted]