*lies! When will Fox learn - you cannot just repackage opinion as fact - The Holocaust didn't happen! What!? No!...LA! LA! LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

Adding video to channels (Lies) - requested by Zonbie.

*history

Adding video to channels (History) - requested by maatc.

Olberpwnage. I really appreciate his work in cutting through all the relentless bullshit other media networks spew out.

Anyone else think it's terribly ironic that the phrase over Bill's text was "Rewriting History"?

fox and o'reilly are totally owned in this commentary. well put together.

comparing the second world war to current events is probably the first mistake to be made.
Not citing the vietnam war is another, wonder why... oh right.

Beautifully done, beautifully done.

Take those vague comments and combat them with hard facts.

Nicely done sir.

Well done. Once again Murdoch, Fox, and oreilly are shown to be liars.

you can't beat the republicans because there is nothing to beat... its shadowboxing and all you have to do is drop your own arms.

Oy vey! Torture is listening to this no-talent a-hole talk endlessly about torture.

How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?

If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.

First, you don't have to listen, so its not torture, at best its masochism (which explains a one thing about you).

Second, Sure, I will. Because we don't get credibly information from torture. Because we would be torturing based on the same intel that told us about the weapons of mass destruction. Because committing morally reprehensible acts in retaliation for other morally reprehensible acts is a path we as Americans choose not to take.

Finally, I should not need to say this, but even if it was only done on three detainees it was done on three too many.

I'm looking for the Nazi propaganda still. Freakin' misleading title.

The British didn't need to torture, they left it to the Canadians. Nice clean hands, and we already had experience in it.

Once again, QM misses the point. The point here is that torture is bad and we don't do it...or rather we shouldn't since we obviously have and packaged it up as "it just makes them THINK they are drowning" or "it just makes them THINK they are getting their head slammed into the wall because this neck brace combats whiplash".

I pity you, fool.

>> ^Jaace:
The point here is that torture is bad and we don't do it...

Depending, torture isn't bad. Incorrect application of torture is bad, using it in a way that makes a suspect want to say anything in order to avoid having it applied again so you gain incorrect information is bad. Use of torture when you know they're already guilty in order to actually get something from them so you can save lives? Ethically or morally either of those it could be questionable.

If I slap you in irons, for, "speaking against the president." Beat you every day, starve you, and break all your fingers. Then tell you to confess, or I'm going to start working on your toes and legs. We've got a serioius problem.

If I catch you as a known terrorist suspect, that's already planted a device that will kill up to 5000 people. I have no freaking clue where it is. And I apply sleep deprivation, loud music, and humiliation(also torture btw) to go with lighter side. To make you crack, so I can save up to several thousand lives. What happens now?

I suppose most people are going to start to have issues with that whole ethical/moral dilemma bit aren't they? Then again, I know we've got death cultists here, and can easily say "my moral standards are higher, than the lives of 20, 400, or 5000 people," then again they've never been in that situation either. The reality is, someone's head will roll if the truth came out that there was an individual, who could tell them where it was and they didn't do everything. Then it becomes, why didn't you do everything? Well the public didn't like torture...so we let them stew in a room.

Stating an ethical choice on what you believe, and being in the ethical situation, and knowing the ramifications of those ethical choices in the end are wholly different. So are the choices. The rules changed when the "older" breed of terrorism came back to life. Questions in questions, what is an individuals breaking point for their own ethical code?

Lets say the catchism now. Ethics is fun!

Yeah, the "ticking time bomb" scenario is thrown out all the time by the assholes on the right.

The truth is that torturing people makes them feel tough, even if they're not personally doing it.

That's why they love it. That's why they support it.

The USA tortured well over 90 detainees, and we tortured several of them to death.

There was not one case involving the infamous, tawdry, and prime-time "ticking time bomb" scenario.

>> ^Mashiki:
I'm looking for the Nazi propaganda still. Freakin' misleading title.
The British didn't need to torture, they left it to the Canadians. Nice clean hands, and we already had experience in it.


Timestamp 7:25 through 8:30 or so covers the bit I think you're disputing.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would have been "Fox News Contributor Bill O'Reilly Uses Convicted Nazi War Criminal's Testimony That's Contradicted by Neutral Accounts of Events to Paint Fmr. Prime Minister Churchill as a Torturer in Order to Refute a Single Line from an Obama Press Statement Opposing Torture", but it just doesn't have the same ring.

Would have been better if Olbermann used Winston's quotes on the ignorant belief in socialism. Interesting how Obama used Winston and not FDR as an example on how to conduct war.

Winnie was perhaps the greatest man of recent generations, though he was not without fault in many aspects of his life. I think we can all agree on that at least.

This was the most severe beat down i've seen. The only shame here is that fox news, the presenter, and the reporter/expert were not brought forward and forced to answer for the bullshit that they spread under the guise of truth. And of course, even if they were, they would twist their way out of it using the verbal equivalent of flashy hand gestures to make you look elsewhere. They would spiral the argument further and further away from the original points WHICH THEY GOT WRONG, citing other examples and completely different situations (which would also be wrong) until eventually you were talking about something completely different and they could claim that you misunderstood them originally.

It's a huge shame that winnie isn't alive today to make a libel claim, that'd be a huge embarassment. But in many ways i'm glad he's not alive to see what a shambles the entire world has turned into after he fought so hard to uphold the things he saw as right.

What a genius, and what a waste.. the lunatics end up running the asylum in the long run no matter what you do to prevent it.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Oy vey! Torture is listening to this no-talent a-hole talk endlessly about torture.
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?
If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.


Not being a lefty, I guess I don't count, but I am willing to tell families of terror victims that becoming a terrorist (and torturing, which is designed to create terror, makes the torturer a terrorist, and the country he comes from a supporter of terrorism) is not the way to fight terrorists. Becoming what you wish to destroy leaves you either failing to destroy the enemy or destroying yourself AS the enemy. Do you understand now?

>> ^quantumushroom:
Oy vey! Torture is listening to this no-talent a-hole talk endlessly about torture.
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?
If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.


Not being a lefty, I guess I don't count, but I am willing to tell families of terror victims that becoming a terrorist (and torturing, which is designed to create terror, makes the torturer a terrorist, and the country he comes from a supporter of terrorism) is not the way to fight terrorists. Becoming what you wish to destroy leaves you either failing to destroy the enemy or destroying yourself AS the enemy. Do you understand now?

>> ^quantumushroom:
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?


Hmmmm...it seems that terrorism wasn't even a priority to the Bush administration...unless it had something to do with oil and invading Iraq:

Condoleezza Rice’s testimony to the 9/11 commission supports Richard Clarke’s charges to the commission that the Bush administration reduced the urgency of the problem of counter-terrorism--and that the invasion of Iraq marked a major diversion from the “war against terrorism.”
(source)

So...now you must be really mad at the Bush administration for not doing their job and protecting the American people, right QM? Because the Bush administration immediately lowered the priority of anti-terrorism planning to a point that was even lower than Clinton's.

I repeat: upon taking office, G.W. Bush gave a lower priority to fighting terrorism than Bill Clinton.

What do you think the families of terrorist attacks would say about that?

And still I wonder, what is up with Olbermann's graphics? The Countdown graphic looks so f'ing ominous--all demonic tower of high tech Matrix-ish power and all.

>> ^NetRunner:
Timestamp 7:25 through 8:30 or so covers the bit I think you're disputing.
That was slightly more accurate, but I wasn't disputing anything. Being slightly anal retentive, I'd still pick a new title. Say...
"Idiots who doesn't know history, take quotes out of proper context."

>> ^rougy:
What do you think the families of terrorist attacks would say about that?


I've always wondered what they'd think about finding out that the "mastermind" of the attack that took their loved ones, would still be a mostly harmless religious nutjob Saudi socialite had he not been recruited by family friend and then CIA man George H.W. Bush to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan?

Funny how things come around to bite us in the ass. Will we ever learn?

>> ^quantumushroom:
Oy vey! Torture is listening to this no-talent a-hole talk endlessly about torture.
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?
If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.


How many grieving Americans that have family members who have been killed in Iraq are you willing to explain your support for the war to quantum? When you do, don't forget to bring your pictures of the "weapons of mass destruction."

Better yet when was the last time you even thought twice about walking into a recruiters office and saying "sign me up!" How many people would you be willing to torture quantum? If the threat to this country is as grave as you and those like minded say it is, why haven't you signed up yet? Hmm, or maybe you have. Maybe the Army has a new top secret unit of soldiers whose mission it is to scour the internet for lefty havens and "give'm hell!" What is it, the 302nd troll brigade?
*wipes tear away... Carry on brave soldier!

Oy vey is right, but the real torture is reading comments from physical, and intellectual cowards that never have any intention of taking part in the disgusting acts they so adamantly support.

Nicely researched and referanced!

>> ^newtboy:
>> :

becoming a terrorist (and torturing, which is designed to create terror, makes the torturer a terrorist, and the country he comes from a supporter of terrorism) is not the way to fight terrorists. Becoming what you wish to destroy leaves you either failing to destroy the enemy or destroying yourself AS the enemy. Do you understand now?


Wait...wasn't that the sub-plot for the two most recent Batman movies?

>> ^quantumushroom:
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?


Because it's wrong. Because in using the tools of the filthy, we become as filthy ourselves.


If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.


Your point is? One is too many. Mebbe if your fascist ex-presidents didn't go tear assing around fucking other peoples countries up and killing your young men and women, you wouldn't be a target of terrorist attacks and you wouldn't need to even consider torturing someone.

Your own CIA taught the Taliban everything about insurgency style warfare for fucks sake. You are too stupid to realise that people like you have sown the wind and reaped the whirlwind in their arrogance and blind hate.

Good thing you're in a minority and the only power you have is to spew your hate on the internet... =)

Woah, I never imagined to see my home region referenced on Fox News. Bad Nenndorf is less than 20km from where I'm writing these very words.

Here's some side info: the Wincklerbad in Bad Nenndorf, which used to be the mentioned interrogation camp from '45 to '47, is one of the reasons why we still have a nazi problem in this area. It's attracting them by the hundreds several times a year. This, of course, attracts hundreds of folks from the anti-fascist movement in return. Makes for a great mass brawl though, good entertainment.

You can find some pictures of it here.

Torture doesn't work -- that's a fact -- and insisting that it does makes anyone a complete fool.

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