*quality

But how do you really feel?

Preach, brother, preach.

I think it's just as well thought out as the rest of Trump's first week, like his plan to make Mexico pay for his wall by taxing Americans. This time he protects us from terrorists by stopping people from countries that have not produced terrorists that attacked us and not stopping them from places that have. He couldn't be a better recruitment tool for anti American organizations if he tried.
I regret that I have but one vote to give to this video, but I can *doublepromote.

Double-Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Sunday, January 29th, 2017 8:44pm PST - doublepromote requested by newtboy.

I believe The Pacific Northwest is one of the most diverse, informed and thoughtful regions of the country. I feel privileged and honored to have been born and raised here.

Go Inslee! That's my man!

Someone in some sort of authority and power (likely on the State level) needs to step up against this bully. I really hope Inslee continues to do exactly that.

Down voted for the utter bullshit it is.
Bullshit Leftest Anti American bias news
300 thousand on flights and 109 were affected.
Thank GOD thump is Standing up for America.
Totally legal by law.

The Truth About Trump's 'Muslim Ban'

Lets agree on the hypocrisy... but if those countries are so wrong to bar Israelis then why is Trump following their, or indeed, Obama's lead?

I don't think Trump's order is at all proportionate to the threat of terrorism. I only wish he'd act with such vigor to larger threats to Americans health and well-being - lets say healthcare or the environment. I actually agree that he should "stand up for America", I just don't agree that he is doing that by barring refugees. What is right for the US isn't necessarily anything that fucks over foreigners bob.

If people begin to act in a hostile manner because a country decides not to let them in, then I think it shows the true nature of those people.

It's like a bully saying, "give me what you have, or I'll hurt you."

Why would you want someone with that mindset in your country?



Not that I agree with any of Trumps policies, they're totally ineffective.

If refugees begin to act in a hostile manner because their plight is minimized and ignored while they are demonized and dehumanized but others that actually did the terroristic and anti American things they are suspected of are not given that treatment, that's human nature. Racist/xenophobic actions often cause anger.
Edit: keep in mind, most that are radicalized are teenagers and early 20's, so aren't the most rational or non violent by nature of their age, regardless of their culture.

It's not like that at all, imo. It's like a political/war refugee saying 'keep your international legal obligations or we'll dislike you more'. How much more do you think some need to dislike us before they act on that hatred? I would say we've created plenty of victims that are on that razors edge and only need a nudge to make their reasonable hatred become action....and giving them nothing to lose by acting, not a good idea.

A friend of mine who attended USC and is a half Iranian citizen of the United States of America, has an aunt and uncle who are also citizens of the United States, visiting family in Iran, and are not being allowed to reenter the country they are citizens of.

Fuck anyone that supports this. Bobknight exclaims this is liberal propaganda and that it only affects a small number of people. You're our Taliban, bob. LIAR.

If I don't want to help you because I fear that you might be hostile, then you actually becoming hostile is not a convincing way to get my help or trust. And further it's justified my initial fear that you are indeed hostile, so now I'm definitely not inclined to help.

Rather than get angry at people who refuse to help them (out of fear), a more reasonable reaction would be for refugees to direct their anger at the small minority of terrorists and extremists - i.e. Be hostile at the actual people that are responsible for the xenophobia existing in the first place. To agree with them and join them is only going to undermine any efforts to stop xenophobia.

The other thing is, the countries that have helped the refugees most, seem to be the ones that are getting the brunt of hostilities from extremist groups. So it goes to show that this hostility not originating from xenophobia, and it seeing this happen gives other countries little reason to want to help.

After 2 years of a difficult application process completed in a refugee camp, we have a duty to those who successfully completed our process. The same goes for non refugees who completed the process. That was the deal we made with them, and they've completed their part. No, becoming hostile won't help public opinion, but why would they care? Public opinion of them is already terrible when they've done nothing wrong, and that same opinion mirrored in Trump has cost them dearly. Now, imagine you're a pissed off displaced teenager who's just escaped war and gone through the lengthy application process with their surviving family in terrible conditions the whole time, you are accepted, and then some guy just says "nope, you escaped the wrong war torn country, Fuck off"....would you be pissed at them? Maybe pissed enough to do something stupid? Now imagine there are numerous organizations looking for people just like you who convince you to act on your adolescent anger. Do you not see how blocking those people creates terrorists where acting honorably and keeping our promisses would create allies?

They ARE angry at them, irate, but they are war refugees, not mercenaries. Most able to fight them already did, and we're killed by them, Assad, or Russia.

When doing everything right by our standards at great expense gets you a nice "Fuck off and die" , why would a sane person continue?

I think they get the brunt because 1) they don't stop refugee migrations and terrorists just walk in with refugees, a problem we don't share, and 2) because of their foreign policies, an issue we do share. Their populations, and even governments are becoming more xenophobic.
Also, I haven't heard of any terrorist acts in Greece, a country that's arguably helped the refugees the most.

I'm certain this does happen, just as you've described. But I can't agree that it's a measured response.

Terrorizing random innocent people will never make the situation better. That's the behavior I'd expect from a racist or a nazi (because they're seeing as everyone within a certain demographic as guilty) We don't need more of people with intolerant and inflexible attitudes.

And although the xenophobia could be the last straw which turns someone to extremism, I think it's most likely because they've already been primed to do so. Because if it was only a matter of "my feels got hurt" and nothing else, then we'd be seeing terrorism by minorities such as gays, Jews, aboriginals, Tibetans and so on. But we don't. And while these groups act out in some pretty extreme ways, it's not anywhere near on the immoral levels as we've seen from islamists.

If people joined extremists groups because they weren't helped by some countries, then shouldn't the extremists at least not attack the countries that are now helping them?

Again I know it happens, but I'm not agreeing it's the actions of a reasonable person, and all it does is make a stronger case to have some hard border policies. (not Trumps policies, but some very in-depth vetting process).

They governments are only becoming right-wing because populations are demanding a right-wing government, and populations are only becoming xenophobic because of the attacks. Otherwise it would never have gained any traction and it would have only remained the view of a few racists.

I think public opinion is low because we're talking about a culture that has quite a few barbaric customs, even for the time when they were invented.

As we've seen these customs are held onto so tightly, and I think a lot of people are worried about this as much as the terrorism. Listening to ex-muslims like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, I'm not surprised people are afraid of these customs becoming a regular thing in their own countries.

Obviously not everyone is like that, hence the need for a good vetting process, to make sure the right people are coming.

I agree, our culture is barbaric, and getting more so. We're already discarding our culture's core pillar, that citizens have the right to believe in any religion they want....or none. I fully expect atheists to be the next targeted group, we're easy, a small (by comparison) group with little political power, and we're distrusted by the right, but not supported fully by the left, and we're an acceptable target for ridicule and distrust by almost all religious people. I ain't goin to no camp.

We (Americans) hold our prejudice tightly, and are worried about anyone different from ourselves, seemingly ignorant of the fact that we are (almost) al immigrants, and that our nation is built on the idea that different cultures together are stronger than any one.
We let Irish in while the IRA called for death to Brittan and tried to give it to them, without any extra vetting. What's different about these people....hmmmm? A different culture that, in your words, is barbaric? I guess you have an incredibly short memory, because until the mid 90's, terroristic barbarism was mostly reserved for Christians, yet no one suggested halting Christian immigration or extra vetting. Historically, Christian culture is far more barbaric and anti-intellectual.

If that were the ONLY reason they joined those groups, maybe, but it's not.
keep in mind, the refugees are fleeing the jihadists, they are not the jihadists (although we can push them in that direction and create more). The ones attacking those countries are mostly fighters that snuck in with the masses, not refugees that got mad and attacked. That is a big problem with having no way to stem the tide of humanity into your country, and is the only logical argument I've heard for the wall.

Really, you expect people to be reasonable just because they're Muslim? Why do you think they're so much better than the rest of us?

Really, then why were they right wing before they were attacked? They are getting more right wing for multiple reasons including confusing the terrorist attackers with the refugees, but the right didn't spring into existence in response to refugees or terrorists.

EDIT: Expecting a uniform measured response from 100% of a terrorized, decimated, displaced people who've lived a living hell for years, some growing up in it, to a plan that seems to remove any hope of escape to a place where they might live a normal life, an escape they've worked towards for years at great expense and hardship, and in some cases escaping certain death due to helping America....no culture or people on earth are going to live up to that. American's certainly don't. We go off half cocked over 1% of that hardship and fly planes into federal buildings.

...Says the person advocating blaming and ruining the lives of innocent people for the acts of those that attacked and displaced them. Destroying the lives of random innocent people will never make the situation better, it will create more hatred for the US. That's the behavior I'd expect from a racist or Nazi because they're seeing everyone with a certain demographic as terroristic. We don't need more people with intolerant and inflexible attitudes.

I think it's the racism and xenophobia they already had coupled with a sudden influx of "others" that are now in their daily lives that turns them to extremism, because they've been primed to do so by the far right. If it was only a matter of "my feels got hurt" and nothing else, we wouldn't have international outrage at our horribly thought out, disastrously implemented, clearly racially and theologically motivated travel ban, but it hurts far more than feelings, it will kill some people.

HA!!!! All those groups have been labeled terrorists at one time, and all of them have committed terroristic acts. Every. Single. One. You just pulled a Bob and used an example that totally destroys your point.

Read some history, Christian extremism puts Islamic extremism to shame.

This is the problem with the left in recent times, you're going out of your way to try to prove me wrong, instead of having a dialogue about a solution that helps the most amount of people in a responsible way. And that corners the right wingers into doing stuff like what Trump has done, in fact the far left can be partly blamed for why Trump is the president int he first place.

We've seen what open borders do in Europe. And now we're going to see what closed borders do in the US.

They're both bad solutions.

I expect a lot more from the left, since they are usually smarter and more educated than the right. But it seems that recently they've all opted for sensationalism just like the right.

And now I'm going to get down-voted by both the left and right lol, and no progress will be made.

14 replies between 2 people down the page, i get the feeling he's not the only one guilty of doing that.......

"I'm not arguing - you're arguing!"

so i have been watching this argument over the "ban" all over my facebook.people really like their little "memes" that offer no real criticism,nor any context,they simply display that persons particular bias.the discussion over this "ban" was not my issue.my issue was with the utter lack of depth of understanding.the evident laziness of those who got up on their little soapbox and sanctimoniously,and self-righteously moralized over a situation that they maybe..maaaybe..spent a total of five minutes on.

until finally my head exploded,and i went into hulk-mode.this was my rant,that i now share with you all:

jesus fucking christ...am i reading these comments correctly?

ok,lets put a little clarity into the mix,shall we?

first of all its not actually a "ban" but an extension to vette refugees further.

sounds reasonable right?

but what is NOT mentioned is that the majority of these refugees have already BEEN vetted,and the process has taken up to two years already.

so stop wetting your pants over brown people who happen to be muslim.

secondly,
let us take a look at the countries whose refugees are being "banned".

notice anything?

each and every one of those countries the american military is deployed in.the CIA has been fighting a proxy war in syria for five fucking YEARS.obama expanded operations into:sudan,somolia,yemen,syria and jordan (another proxy war executed by our radical saudi arabia buddies,who just happen to hate america and promote the most radical of muslim interpretations:wahhabism.they spend BILLIONS of their oil money to open madrasas across the region to light the match of radical islam)

so we,along with russia,turkey and other nations,are bombing the SHIT out of these countries,therefore creating the refugee crisis in the first place,and then we turn around an slap a "ban" on them.

oh,i'm sorry,not really a ban,just an extension to vette them further,because god knows we need more than two years to find out if someone is radicalized.

hypocrisy much america?

thirdly,
and this should make us all VERY nervous,but corporate media has YET to address this little turd nugget.a federal court slapped an injunction on this "ban",because it was not done through the proper channels,but rather through executive order.

and DHS ignored the injunction.
IGNORED it,because who needs "checks and balances" right?
who needs an institution,which was put in place to uphold the law and to restrict a sitting president from over-stepping his authority?
right?

and the fact that the DHS,which is under the DoD,outright ignored a direct order from a federal judge to cease and desist,because trump had overstepped his authority by attempting to use executive orders to circumvent the law.,and this was just an injunction,which really just means "stop!until we further review"...the DHS ignored the injunction.

lets ignore the fact that trump gutted the very agency that would have been the first to challenge his executive order "banning" these refugees.trump literally gutted all the high ranking officials at the state dept.

his press secretary said,and this is fucking laughable..they resigned..ALL of them?
all of them just stood up and resigned?

so it came down to a judge to hold trump accountable,which he did by injunction and an entire dept ignored that federal judges ruling.

now let us look at the countries left off that list.

notice anything?

well well well...would you look at that.
not only do they all purchase large amounts of weapons and military apparatus from us.not only do have they have large reserves of oil that our american companies make a shit ton of money from,but lookie here..trump has business in every singly one of those countries.

coincidence?

oh,and lets not overlook the fact that by executive order trump opened the door to have steve bannon on the national security council!
an unqualified,and with zero experience white nationalist is now on the national security council.

this is unprecedented!

but who cares right?
who needs those protocols,or checks and balances right?

trump is slowly creating his own tiny cabal of extreme loyalists and you people are wetting your pants over some brown people who lost everything,and have spent TWO FUCKING YEARS to find refuge?

this isnt the behavior of a president.
this is the behavior of a king.

yes,other presidents have implemented bans.
this is not a new thing.
what IS new,and some of you nimrods are either willingly,or unwittingly ignoring,is that THOSE bans were in direct response to the US being threatened by a particular group,and THOSE bans had the approval of congress..not a fucking piece of paper that king trump signed.

does america need to reform it's immigration policies?
yes,most certainly.

do we need to have an system in place to help assimilate refugees from syria beyond vetting?

of course,all we have to do is look at germany and see what happens when you allow refugees into your country without proper preparation and a system in place to see just how horrible it can get.

does this mean that every muslim refugee is somehow a terrorist?

well,just look at dearborn michigan.the largest muslim community in america and tell me how many terrorist came from that city? how many muslims were radicalized in dearborn?

is radicalized islam a problem?
yes,of course,who would deny this?

but the causes of radicalization are well understood,and have been well documented,and it is NOT only muslims who engage in terrorism.

really folks,before you start making declarations of certitude without having even the most basic knowledge how our government functions,you need to shut the fuck up.

and for FUCK sakes pick up a book once in awhile,and stop being a gaggle of fucking bed wetters.
jesus...you little fags piss yourselves every time a muslim is even mentioned in conversation.

oh,and before one of you tough guys even think about talking shit to me.
1.i am ex military.so go fuck yourself.
2.my JOB is to debunk bullshit stories and research politics and offer analysis.

so you better think twice before you go off half cocked,because my comment hurt your wittle feewings.your comments are ignorant and they are so lacking in the basic understanding of how this government operates that the only feeling you should having right now is:SHAME.

*edit:this is not directed towards anyone in particular here,but this single focus on trumps ill-thought "ban",and how he did so in such a broad,and general wave of a pen stroke that affected even those HAD gone through the process to get their green cards,visas etc etc is simply buying into the corporate narrative.

and then NOT consider the implications of a gutted state department,the loss of the attorney general and the defiant,disobedience of the DHS in regards to a federal judges injunction.

is unforgivable in it's ignorance.

the implications ALONE should make us all worried.
very very worried.
because it appears trump is reshaping our government into his own little fiefdom of loyalists,willing to defy the everyday governmental operations of checks and balances.

trump is consolidating and concentrating his power by creating his own little cabal of loyalists.that motherfucker has ALREADY put his candidacy on the ballot for 2020.now accepting donations to the highest bidder! feel free to purchase your own piece of the american presidency!

on sale NOW! so act fast! positions are limited!
*prices may vary according to your status and where you reside on the class scale.poor people can simply fuck off.

i realize this speculation on my part,
and i could be wrong.
god..please let me be wrong.

You can't have a meaningful dialogue when one person starts with incorrect facts.

I did notice a solution that helps the most amount of people in a reasonable way, educate them. Lack of education is the biggest factor in being able to radicalize anyone, from any religion. Arab Muslims have few educational opportunities, leaving them open to being duped by the unscrupulous.

Um....you're blaming Trumps flailing illegal orders, and the ignoring of judicial orders on the left? Fuck you. Trump is 100% the responsibility of the right, and the left accepts 0% of the responsibility for what he does. No one on the left cornered Trump into a Muslim ban, he advertised it, promised it, and delivered it for his racist base, and they love it because....fewer darkies.

Our borders are different from Europe. We may close the gates, but we won't be more secure because of it, anyone wanting in will still come in. 1/2 of illegals flew here, and the wall, if it's ever built, won't be done for decades and won't stop illegals, they'll tunnel.

So, no answer to Greece, eh? They kind of blow your stance out of the water, don't they? No country has seen more refugees pass through, and not a single attack. Hmmmm.

It couldn't be that they are attacking countries that have recently attacked their countries, could it?