VideoSift: Keepin' me from working too hard for "the man".

Yeah, obviously Ron Paul will be the politician (put there to make us think we have choices) that will fix it all, by going for a lot less government. Yeah, that'll fix it, let the government do even less to stop these corporate bloodsuckers from running everything..

Mike Gravel is the only one who seems to agree with what Carlin says here, but ofcourse he wont win till hell freezes over, and even if he did, probably couldnt make that much of a difference. Or he might have an accident.

And no, he's not particularly strong on education either http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Education.htm Allthough he does take the only sensible position on religion here, and yes, Gravel is more in line with Carlin on this issue:

Stop and think [about American ] education -- it's a joke. Thirty percent of American children do not graduate from high school. That's an embarrassment. How is it that Finland, Sweden, Denmark, can take a child from down here all the way up to PhD, and everything's paid for by the government? Why can't we do that? Is something wrong with us? We're too busy carrying the yoke of the military-industrial complex, that's what's going on. We Americans have been drugged with fear, and we got to stop!

Wow, another long parade of sad, tired cliches. Ooh, big rich man holding me down.

Very, very few people (businessmen, politicians, whatever) would want to see poor education so they can have a workforce of obedient idiots. To the extent that the education system is a failure, it's a failure because the people running it don't know how to do it better and because the expectations placed on it are unrealistic. Does someone legitimately believe businessmen are lobbying to - I don't know - lower education funding so that the sheeple are easier to control with their vast media machine?

I've dealt with high placed business people and seen high-level business strategy meetings and documents. It does not match the image of corporate America seen in movies, TV, or rants like this. It just doesn't. Unless the TV show you're talking about is "The Office".

The first, biggest misconception is that the super-rich are only interested in becoming more super-wealthy at whatever human cost. Certainly there's some out there who are only interested in more and more wealth - but in many cases the trend reverses the higher up you look. As a business owner reaches a certain point of wealth, quite often the focus shifts to ego: "How can I be remembered as a great guy?", "What can I do to impress my rich friends?", or "How can I help my son's business without actually cheating by giving him money?".

For example, the common idea that the Iraq war was engineered for money is ridiculous - it's not even looking in the right direction. GWB and the ruling cadre have plenty of ways to get money; what a guy like GWB desperately wants is to be remembered as the president who saved the free world. Glory. And he's pursuing that earnestly, making decisions that he honestly believes are correct. Sure there are profiteers, but they're peripheral to the actual motivation.

I think somehow people prefer the idea that the country is run by an elite cadre of power-hungry super-villains. The alternative, the reality - that it's run by well-meaning but over-confident, incompetent jocks - is scary in a way that people don't seem to want to accept.

If there was one dangerous meme that could actually threaten the slow march of progress, it's the idea that this video conveys: that people are powerless, and that political choices are meaningless. I see the next American election as a crucial choice in terms of foreign policy and basic human freedom. If young, energetic, change-seeking Americans stay home because they buy into conspiracy theories about how everything is fixed and rigged and unchangeable, then I think that's a real loss.

jmzero: While I do freely agree with much of your post, the problem is not CEO's or Presidents personal ambitions, they may be fine, take Bill Gates, gives away billions to charity, great!, but that doesnt change the fact that Microsoft is required by law to satisfy its shareholders, its also the only way it stays big, by doing whatever it can to stay on top. All companies do this, if they dont, they stop being companies. And part of that job is spending billions on making that job easier, you cant seriously deny how lobbyists have a huge impact on decision making, how laws have been passed, people have been elected, resolutions been approved etc under the influence of some very powerful rich people.. Infact, I'm willing to bet lobbying plays a key role every damn time.

Just look at the history of the Tobacco industry, the Oil industry, the weapons industry or the health industry, its always the same. Individuals may, and do, care, but companies dont.

Looking over my previous rant, I don't think I focused on what I meant to focus on: I guess mostly I'm taking issue with statements like "Politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice". I'm taking issue with the overall hopeless tone.

I certainly don't mean to suggest there isn't problems. What I would say, though, is that generally politicians, deep-down, want good things. They want to make things better. They want better education. The problem is that many of them have wrong ideas about how to get there, or don't have the skills and intelligence to run things well. Or allow personal ambitions to distract them from more important goals.

This video says "you have no choice, you have owners". If people actually believe that, it could become true. The truth is that politicians aren't just puppets or figureheads. They have power, and voters have power over them. It's absolutely critical to pick smart politicians that will make positive changes.

I feel like there's a movement now where young, energetic voters that have historically motivated government towards positive change are instead dissociating themselves from effective, real political movements and into a kind of pathetic, hopeless, paranoid whine. And I think that's tragic.

You fucking people make me SICK.



Upvote for an outstanding post.

This is just paranoid ranting.

"I've dealt with high placed business people and seen high-level business strategy meetings and documents."

You haven't gone high enough. Carlin is referring to people and organizations like Cheney / Haliburton, Paul Wolfowitz, World Bank directors, etc.

"Does someone legitimately believe businessmen are lobbying to - I don't know - lower education funding so that the sheeple are easier to control with their vast media machine?"

Not the ordinary President or CEO of your average mid-sized company, no.
But the guys mentioned above? Oh hell yes.

Wake up indeed - the fact that most people don't even know this goes on is the whole point of the video. *sigh*

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Power stuff. Sure it might be a bit simplistic but he's on the money with most of it.

The basics of what he is saying I think is true. The people in power in this country and the people who's pockets they are in are concerned with one thing and that is staying in power. There is nothing in it for them to make sure we have a population of critical thinking citizens that are well educated and well informed.

Yeah you guys are right. People losing their pensions is paraniod. It doesn't happen. And social security will be working fine for the next fifty years. And all of you guys know a lot more than a man who's been on this earth for SEVENTY years now. Carlin is a public speaker and he doesn't really give a shit about anything. His ability to step away from and look deep into the world and how it works is what I admire him for.

UPVOTE FOR IRISHMAN'S COMMENT.

Look, if you guys are getting the message: "There's problems, let's do something about it" out of this video, then great.

But that's not what Carlin's saying. He's saying "Everything's screwed, you have no power." And that's what I'm disagreeing with - it's a wrong, dangerous idea. The person who made the video says "Wake up". Carlin is saying "You have no choice".

And all of you guys know a lot more than a man who's been on this earth for SEVENTY years now.

You haven't gone high enough. Carlin is referring to people and organizations like Cheney / Haliburton, Paul Wolfowitz, World Bank directors, etc.

*politics *election08

Adding video to channels (Election08, Politics) - requested by calvados.

"If people really believe that all politicians are just figureheads, put in place to pacify the crowds - then people may lose the power they do legitimately have."

Just what power are you refering to? To make the choice between Democrat or Republican?

To vote Nader?

This country is still the best on earth in my opinion. But Carlin is right. This system was bought and paid for a long time ago. "The entire systen is balanced on an intricate and ever growing web of lies. To introduce the truth would bring the whole thing crashing down."

I truly believe that.

pretty crappy. Of course he dosnt mention that education sucks because our kids are lazy and so are their parents, and that parenting is at an all time worse. oh no that couldn't be it at all.

JMZero, you deny so many things, I have to wonder why you protest so much? You haven't convinced me of anything, you've just polarized me even more.

Maybe if you'd acknowledge a problem instead of whitewashing it with folksy advice and pat comments. Reminds me of President Bush.

Just what power are you refering to? To make the choice between Democrat or Republican?

Lemme summarize JMZero...
1. The economy and political system are not bad.
2. Angry young people are railing at nothing.
3. The economy and political system are not bad and this proves... the economy and political system are not bad.
4. Disadvantaged people don't want to take responsibility for their position.

I'd like to repeat JMZeroes words:
"I feel like there's a movement now where young, energetic voters ... dissociating themselves from effective, real political movements and into a kind of pathetic, hopeless, paranoid whine. And I think that's tragic"

I guess for all my talking (and I tend to ramble) I haven't been terribly clear. Maybe I'll try to do my own summary:

1. The political system (and here I mostly refer to the US) is not broken. If people are motivated, and support candidates with good ideas, then they can produce real change.
2. The idea that people have no options, and that the political process can't bring about change, is dangerous - because it keeps energetic people who should be working for change out of the political process (which is the only way change is actually going to come).

Again - I think the only way things will change in America is if voters take more notice of critical issues, and elect candidates who will make responsible decisions. If people abdicate that responsibility because they believe that all the parties are the same, nothing can be done, or that politicians are all powerless puppets of some complex - then that change won't occur.

The other stuff I talked about probably distracted from my point, but basically I was just trying to establish that there isn't some shadowy group of untouchable power-monsters that control everything. Rather, businesses and countries are controlled by people with human motivations and frailties, and generally a desire for the general good (even if they're misguided in how they plan to get there).

In short, I agree with the video's end - the "Wake Up" part. What I disagree with is the hopeless, paranoid tone of the remainder of it.

Hopefully that's more clear.

jmzero: You do tend to ramble. You don't need to be long winded to make an effective point.

I would just like to go on record as saying that: I don't think having these thoughts makes people paranoid.

Sometimes the truth is hard to accept. Sometimes you have to embrace the hopelessness of a situation. You can't fix everything. And it doesn't mean you have to be depressed about it either. In fact, it can be pretty liberating.

Carlin clearly reiterates: nobody notices, nobody cares... which is the message of the whole rant. HE notices, and obviously the people applauding care. Its the irony that people laugh at. OF COURSE people notice. OF COURSE people care! Otherwise there'd be nobody laughing at his dialogue!

What's more insiduous than anything else in his rant wasn't mentioned and hasnb't been mentioned here either: the polarization that keeps happening. The Powers That Be don't care if you're educated nor do they care if you're active. What they care about is if you're alone or not. You want to give money to the poor? Learn the truth? Cast a ballot? Run for office? Change something? They are fine with that. Take your best shot. But you want to organize other people to do the same? They will start to care. A unified people is a culture in charge of itself. United society is powerful society.

The whole message of "pull yourself up on your own" and "personal responsibility before charity" and "no interference on behalf of others" is the worst crime ever in our society because it's infusing the notion of "I got mine jack" and pushing people away from each other. All this individualism crap - argh it's pathetic. One can be an individual and still be a part of an active vibrant society that looks out for its members. But the Powers That Be have convinced a very powerful subset of society that being unified and tolerant and patient and diverse will somehow result in their personal downfall. I am sad every time I see some otherwise nice decent person go off on a parroted spiel about "personal responsibility" because I know what they're really saying: I'd rather society fall apart than have to share with others.

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Always thought the most interesting part of this video was how as he is telling people they are bought and paid for... quite completely owned... they are cheering him for it.

better embed: http://www.videosift.com/video/George-Carlin-s-Greatest-Moment-1?noredirect

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the best slaves are the ones who never realize it.

@jmzero
here it is 4 years later.i am curious if you still stand by your comments from 4 years ago.

@enoch

Howdy. First off, thanks; coming back to this discussion is kind of interesting after a few years.

My thoughts:

1. I wasn't a huge Obama supporter - but I did expect more from him in terms of change on health care (the US system is still a crazy-quilt of expensive nonsense) and reduced military expenditure (I expected a faster withdraw timetable from both Iraq and Afghanistan). I thought he could sell his vision, but it hasn't worked; he's lost people and as a result doesn't have the political will to make real change. It's too bad, because I think he did intend some good things.

2. I think the Occupy movement is a good illustration of the point I wanted to make. They had a good thing going and some scattered good ideas - but they didn't integrate themselves into the political movement. They distrusted it, shunned it. Candidates couldn't espouse Occupy ideals to get elected because Occupy people were poorly organized, had vague goals, and were not reliable voters. Nobody worried about not getting re-elected because they didn't line up with Occupy.

3. By contrast, the Tea Partiers had a much more substantial impact on policy because they did connect to the Republican party, connected with candidates, and they got out the vote (sometimes at least). If they could have found anyone who wasn't a complete and utter moron to lead them (I guess it's hard to find sane leaders when your policies are nuts), they could have got a lot of stuff changed (mostly for the worse, of course, but change nonetheless).

I think if Occupy could have organized better (maybe have some leaders, or at least rallied behind some statement of principle and ideas for change), it could have been a huge force for good. I think they were hampered by exactly this sense of hopelessness. They didn't actually believe they could make a difference in political decisions, so they didn't really try - and because of this, in the end I don't think they've had much lasting effect. A lot of their ideas resonated with a powerful number of people, but all that effort and will got channeled nowhere - just anger and hopelessness and failure.

I still think positive change is very possible in the US (and the world in general), and I think it's still most likely to happen (in the US) through the normal democratic process. It'll take some real leadership, though. Someone like Ron Paul - but with much less crazy and more charisma - could turn the Occupy-type crowd into a very potent political force that could do some real good. (On Ron Paul: he did certainly face some unfair extra hurdles as an anti-establishment candidate - but I think his main problem was that too many people legitimately disagreed with him).

Will it happen? I don't know. As I've said, I think a big problem is that the current generation - the students and young people who've driven change throughout history - distrusts the entire political process. More than that, they distrust "leadership" in general. Returning to Occupy, they seemed to be actively against leaders emerging or having cohesive policies to rally around.

That's cool and fun and Internet-like, but it doesn't get the job done.

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This clip gets promoted and reposted all the time. Still, I watch it every time. I could watch it every day.

Wealth Inequality in America has been added as a related post - related requested by Grimm on that post.

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