I swear Hitchens purposely tries to look evil.

Not gonna let him "bogart" him? Isn't that a drug term?

No, Bogart can refer to anything being hogged. 'Phelpsing' refers to drugs. For example, "Quit Phelpsin' that spliff, yo".

^Never heard that one before. We always said bogartin' referring to weed and/or hogging.

But then again, some of the terms for weed they use nowadays is different too. Tendo? Stress? We always said dirtweed.

Phelpsing.

Hopsing's stand in.

Phelpsing (adj) - (1) to feel guilty about doing something that harmed no one even though you were a celebrated champion. (2) bowing to lesser men.

Blackwell complains that he cant get a word in edgewise? Hitchen's barely is able to complete a full sentence accept his opening statement.

Maybe if the loudest members of Christianity (and other faiths) exhibited the best qualities of the faith, then perhaps the young people of today would be more interested in religion.

Is there any wonder that radical, outspoken right wing conservatives are driving people out of religion?

That was hard to watch.

I'm not the biggest Hitchens fan, but it pissed me off whenever he's trying to make a point, Blackwell is either laughing at him or talking down to him as if he's a 9 year old boy talking about things he doesn't understand. The constant "*sigh*...Christopher....Christopher... * laughing*" shows nothing more than the fact that Blackwell's not trying to 'win' the debate with intelligence (obviously, seeing as how Hitchens had straight facts to counter against his senseless ramblings), but instead by demeaning anything Hitchens says by reacting with "Aww, how cute, Little Christopher is trying to be smart, look at that..." type of mannerisms.

Having debated several people who react in the same exact way, it's an extremely frustrating feeling.

>> ^Xaielao:
Blackwell complains that he cant get a word in edgewise? Hitchen's barely is able to complete a full sentence accept his opening statement.


The face of faith is a shit eating grin. Blackwell has to block out Hitchen's logic otherwise his brain may begin to function and face the reality that his faith is meaningless.

*british *news

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*lies

Stuttering black dude is just clinging to his last thread of defense. I love when these religionists get backed into a corner and really have no valid arguments.

Religion really needs to be abolished. Everywhere, not just America.

Invocations (lies) cannot be called by ForgedReality because ForgedReality is not privileged - sorry.

*lies
The distinction between the founders and the pilgrims is one that i would honestly have liked to see debated. Unfortunately it didnt happen here thanks to sommmmmmmmeone...

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Happy Easter!

the definitive Bogart reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbY9ePebWB8

Is this even a debate? Religions and practicioners have been portrayed negatively for decades. The last deeply religious generation (boomers) is retiring and dying off. The upcoming generations are comprised of kids/adults who have received years of negative messages about religion in the media, news, schools, and government. The natural result will of course be a decrease in those who identify themselves as religous. Duh!

People of faith don't need to pointlessly act like thier 'influence' isn't waning. People of faith should instead be soberly conscious of it as inevitable. They should also (more than anyone) be cognizant of the fact that this is all the fulfillment of ancient prophecy. Scripture indicates that this gap between the religious & non-religious will only widen and increase as time goes on. It also indicates that it will eventually turn from emnity to open hostility on the part of the non-religious towards the religious.

Wow. You sure can pack those pennies Winstonfield.


Also, are you honestly suggesting we are getting close to the rapture?

I probably don't believe in 'the rapture' as you would define it. What I'm trying to say is that a person who IS religious should be aware of what thier own faith says about world events. The guy in the vid was a terrible representative for religious faith. He sucked both as a man of faith and as a debater.

The basic premise of the argument was that religious influence in America is waning. Well - DUH. The pro-religion guy shouldn't be denying that premise. He should instead have been attempting to explain religious perspective and context on this trend. A religious person should have plenty to say on the subject. What would I have said?

"Yes, certainly the influence of Christianity in America is waning. But I don't agree with Mr. Dawkins that such a decrease is a good thing. Christian religions teach a moral system which encourages improved human behavior. People don't always implement that philosophy well in thier actions. But the precepts of Christianity when followed will bring about increased happiness, and result in a better society. Religion places greater value on the state of a soul than on the state of mortal society. But a person like Mr. Dawkins might agree (in principle) that the positive benefits of a population seeking improved behavior is indeed beneficial."

Statistically, fewer and fewer people seeking to follow Christ-like behavior creates a moral void. The hold is not being filled with alternative philosophies of discipline for self-improvement. Instead it is being replaced by materialism, pop-culture, or nothing at all. That is not an improvement."

A person of real faith views this with the proper perspective, and could tell Dawkins that this negative trend is merely an embodiment of stuff God warned people about hundreds of years ago.

"What I'm trying to say is that a person who IS religious should be aware of what their own faith says about world events"

But what if they belong to one of the religions that isn't the correct one? Should they still be aware of what their religion says about the end of the world, even if it's not true?

WFPP, I agree with you. That would have been a much more convincing argument than the derisive chuckling and stuttering the religious proponent in the video produced.

Fair enough.

Now as to your second point, "Christ-like behavior" by this I assume you mean behaving in a way Christ would approve. Perhaps that is true, of course, you don't have to be a believer in the divinity of Christ or god or anything else to behave in a 'Christ-like' way. As proof I'll offer the fact that many people still showed 'Christ-like' behavior before Christ was born.

And to suggest that materialism and nothingness are filling the void left by religion, that is more a matter of opinion than fact. But perhaps a gifted debater could cloud that fact.

You don't have to be a believer in the divinity of Christ or god or anything else to behave in a 'Christ-like' way. As proof I'll offer the fact that many people still showed 'Christ-like' behavior before Christ was born.

Very true. I don't mean to suggest that only people who attend churches demonstrate Christ like behavior. What I would suggest is that an organization ostensibly designed to train individuals to emulate 'Christ-like' behavior is more generally likely to succeed in getting people to behave in Christ like ways compared to the absence of such instruction.

And to suggest that materialism and nothingness are filling the void left by religion, that is more a matter of opinion than fact.

Has the decrease in the influence of Christianity over the past 10, 20, 30 years been accompanied by an decrease in materialism? If so, I have not observed the trend. Correlation does not equal causation - but it certainly does waggle it's eyebrows in causation's direction...

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