Incoming flamewar?

Maybe. Maybe not.

But you can count on Ant's downvote!

I realize that this clip is arguing about whether the stories are true. I wonder about the changes that happen with translations.

Catholics will be getting a new translation of The Mass.

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=20342

Seen it before and Im very unimpressed. In fact Im unimpressed by their entire series of shows.

These guys are (sort of) entertaining. Their stock and trade is subversive shock, whether exposing magic tricks, calling prostitution good for society, or saying only idiots use manners. Penn reminds me of Bill O'Reilly with the long arrogant speeches.

your down vote only makes me stronger... what was that obi wan quote?

Still a 29 min TV show available on bittorrent (see Posting guidelines) - but I still love the series.

*discard (if I could)

still amatuers compared to george carlin in the shock factor. i seem to remember the dead sea scrolls and recent archeological digs providing the opposite opinion.
overall...typical and boring, the two things these men dispise yet excell at.

The Bible was "historical fiction" WAY before Dan Brown came up with "The Da Vinci Code".
It's a clearly fictional story REALLY loosely built around historical events. Sorry, Bible-bangers.

"It's a clearly fictional story REALLY loosely built around historical events. Sorry, Bible-bangers."

Yes, its very obvious. Its so obvious in fact, that facts supporting the claim arent even necessary.

Ha! Nice one, Einstein!
The burden of proof is on the Jesus freaks, not the rest of us -- and the Bible is awash with contradictions and inconsistencies.
Like Penn says at the beginning, if you're dopey enough to go just on faith, there's simply no arguing with you. So let it end here.
Enjoy your magic Santa Claus.

1. You call me Santa Claus? Would it be more appropriate to call me something that believes in Santa? ...if you are going to resort to name calling, at least be accurate

2. Why is the burden of proof on the "Jesus freaks"? As seen in this thread, it is YOU who are claiming that the Bible is false. I would understand that the burden of proof is on me if I began this thread saying that the Bible is truth and undisputible, but that was not the case. It was YOU who came here and supposed claims about a written text. It is not my responsibility to disproof your claims, but rather it is your responsibility to proof your claims.

3. Dangerous move to tell me that a person who has faith in something is dopey. Faith in the impossible is often the only guiding light some people have in this world to make it through very tough situations. Faith is not only a religious aspect, but rather something many of us have daily.

-------

Am I beginning to see a degrade in the way people are going to be arguing on this website? I recently applauded this site for its maturity and respect between users in arguments, but it seems that is dimishing as more users come to this place.

There's a half hour program above which does plenty of disproving, thanks.
I assumed since this thread is ABOUT that program, you'd actually watched it - and thus, the burden of proof is back on you.
The only degradation of debate I see here is your circular logic, answering questions with more questions. But then, I'm guessing science and debate ain't your strong suit.

/me shakes his head and walks away

Not even worth it...

Although they're pushing their own side of the story and are most definately professional shit-stirrers (especially towards religion), Penn and Teller have always presented their arguements with facts in tow. Rarely also do they take people out of context or misquote them. I certainly dont agree with all of their perspectives, but I don't feel like they're attempting to manipulate the viewer with *false* infomation.

In direct response to this subject, I honestly don't suppose they really have a problem with people believing in any faith - just the aspects of religious lore touted and accepted as scientific truths. Including religious scams (as covered in their Religious Icons episode); where people are deceived into purchasing swabs of 'holy' (olive) oil excreted from a permanently comatose young girl. Now *that* sort of behaviour is what's utterly disgusting!

Personally I think the point of the Bible (and Koran or whatever) is missed if it's read as literal fact.

No beef with Penn and Teller, but as an atheist, one of the most annoying things I see are guys like theo47 busting their asses to try to make us look like dicks.

Haha... I personally like P&T. But there is no way any reasonably logical person will believe that they "rarely take people out of context or misquote them" and somehow facts follow them around.

They are very selective on their facts. Heck on this very site we found out the bottled water restaurant prank was all actors. The real trouble is Penn's strong ties to Cato Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute)

I believe he strongly is associated with concept of influencing public policy, and in some ways this is pushed with his show. While for the most part there is some logic and science, but for the most part, they are as hypocritcal and selectively one sided as the people they criticize.

As far as faith goes, I know that I have touched by His Noodly Appendage. http://www.venganza.org/plume.htm

[OMG, it was a joke, not anything heated!! I think atheists are more like Einstein and fundamentalist religious people are more like Bush.]

I enjoyed JoeDirts posts more than this video.

Personally I am not much of a believer, but I dont think P&T put up a very intelligent debate here.

*blog

This is getting heated/nasty and needs to cool off before it rips VS members apart. This is a happy little community but let loose the dogs of war in the blogs please.

(No pun intended on the dogs of war) heh

Sending this video to the blog for discussion (sent by gold star member bnsa)

Well this pretty clearly violates the whole episode guideline. Other than that i agree with bnsa that everyone needs to chill. I am going to pull the video because of it's problems with the guidelines, but will leave this thread in the blog.